Chief Change Officer Podcast Episode #406: Richard Carson – Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time (Part Two)
Release Date: June 3, 2025
Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Richard Carson, Consultant, Strategist, and Author
Introduction
In Episode #406 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan engages in a profound conversation with Richard Carson, a seasoned consultant and strategist renowned for his comprehensive approach to organizational transformation. This two-part series delves into the intricacies of implementing change within organizations, emphasizing the critical role of people in the process.
Richard Carson’s 39-Step Change Model
Understanding the Framework
Richard introduces his robust 39-step change model, designed to address and rectify organizational dysfunctions systematically. While the model encompasses classic stages of change management, it integrates additional steps to ensure holistic transformation.
Key Steps Highlighted:
- Problem Identification: Scoping out the core issues facing the organization.
- Kickoff Program: Engaging all members of the organization through group sessions to secure buy-in and set the stage for collaborative change.
- Data Collection and Assessment: Analyzing annual reports, statistical data, and media information to understand the current state.
- Stakeholder Engagement: Gathering feedback from vendors, consumers, and other stakeholders to gain diverse perspectives.
- Organizational Change Implementation: Applying diagnostic models, inspired by the National Institute of Health’s medical diagnosis process, to identify and treat organizational ailments.
- Process Mapping and Re-engineering: Refining processes to streamline operations.
- Locking in Change: Utilizing executive leadership coaching, staff training, and Total Quality Management (TQM) to cement changes.
- Maintenance: Establishing multi-year strategic plans and budgeting, coupled with continuous feedback loops to monitor progress.
Notable Quote:
"The model is designed so it is comprehensive, but you can use it in pieces, parts, stages." — Richard Carson [09:05]
Practical Application: Southern California County Government Case Study
Richard shares a compelling case study from a Southern California county government, where he applied his change model to address organizational issues. The county faced challenges with employee performance and morale, primarily attributed to a micromanaging manager who enforced rigid time-tracking practices.
Key Insights:
- Micromanagement Pitfalls: Employees were required to report activities in 15-minute increments, leading to frustration and decreased productivity.
- Impact on Morale: The excessive focus on time management overshadowed actual task completion, reminiscent of the Hawthorne Experiment, where observation altered behavior negatively.
- Organizational Evolution: Richard contrasts this outdated approach with modern business philosophies that prioritize creativity and autonomy, highlighting the necessity for organizations to adapt.
Notable Quote:
"They were spending more time reporting what they were doing than doing it." — Richard Carson [07:00]
Reflections on AI and Macro Trends
While primarily focused on organizational change, Richard addresses the profound impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on the workplace. He draws parallels between the transformative effects of AI and the disruptions caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Key Points:
- AI as a Game Changer: Richard anticipates AI to be the most significant change since COVID-19, potentially leading to massive shifts in employment and operational practices.
- Future Uncertainties: With predictions suggesting unemployment rates could soar to 80%, Richard emphasizes the need for organizations to brace for unprecedented changes.
- COVID-19 Lessons: The pandemic underscored the importance of adaptability, with businesses like Amazon revolutionizing delivery services and traditional retailers like Macy’s struggling to keep pace.
Notable Quote:
"AI is something that I'm still trying to get my head around in terms of what it's going to do to organizations and how organizations will cope with that change." — Richard Carson [09:05]
Feedback on the Model and Personal Reflections
Richard discusses the reception of his change model since publishing his book in Spring 2023. He notes that feedback has been constructive, with no significant alterations needed thus far.
Key Insights:
- Model Flexibility: The model's comprehensive nature allows for adaptability, enabling organizations to implement specific sections as needed rather than adhering strictly to all 39 steps.
- Continued Evolution: Richard remains focused on future challenges, such as navigating the complexities introduced by figures like Trump and Musk, and external factors like pandemics.
- Personal Growth: Reflecting on his journey, Richard emphasizes the importance of embracing change, learning from mistakes, and remaining open to new opportunities.
Notable Quote:
"I think the model is, was designed so it is one comprehensive, but you can use it in pieces, parts, stages." — Richard Carson [09:05]
The Importance of Empathy in Change Management
A central theme of the discussion revolves around empathy as an indispensable component of effective change management. Richard critiques the often clinical and detached approach of many managers, advocating for a more empathetic engagement with employees.
Key Points:
- Empathy Beyond Managers: Empathy is portrayed not just as a managerial trait but as a fundamental human skill crucial for fostering trust and collaboration within organizations.
- Listening Over Talking: Richard underscores the importance of truly listening to employees, rather than simply talking at them, to understand their needs and perspectives.
- Empathy’s Role in Success: Successful managers leverage empathy to build stronger teams, enhance communication, and drive meaningful change.
Notable Quotes:
"Empathy isn't just for managers, it's a basic human skill." — Vince Chen [21:16]
"I think that is a really important attribute in any manager or any process is to have empathy for the people involved in." — Richard Carson [20:18]
Personal Application of Change Management Principles
Richard shares how he has integrated change management principles into his personal life, demonstrating that these concepts extend beyond professional settings.
Key Insights:
- Embracing Change: Richard adopts a flexible approach, viewing changes as opportunities rather than setbacks, and remains open to evolving his plans based on new circumstances.
- Learning from Mistakes: Inspired by John F. Kennedy’s philosophy, Richard emphasizes the importance of learning from errors to foster personal and professional growth.
- Career Transitions: Highlighting his own transition from a public sector manager to a consultant after pursuing doctorate studies, Richard exemplifies the proactive application of change management in navigating career shifts.
Notable Quote:
"I became a better person when I really looked at my own life, my own experiences and make decisions, changes for the good." — Richard Carson [18:50]
Conclusion: Key Takeaways
The episode concludes with a reinforced understanding that effective change management transcends mere tools and templates. It requires trust, timing, and the ability to listen and empathize with those involved.
Final Thoughts:
- People-Centric Change: Successful transformation hinges on prioritizing human elements over rigid systems.
- Continuous Learning: Both organizations and individuals must remain adaptable, continuously learning and evolving in response to internal and external changes.
- Empathy as a Cornerstone: Cultivating empathy within leadership fosters a more resilient and cohesive organizational culture.
Notable Quote:
"If you are in the business of moving people, not just systems, his advice is worth returning to." — Vince Chen [24:04]
Closing
Richard Carson’s insights in this episode of Chief Change Officer offer invaluable perspectives on diagnosing and addressing systemic dysfunctions within organizations. By emphasizing empathy, adaptability, and a comprehensive approach to change management, listeners are equipped with the wisdom to navigate and lead transformative initiatives effectively.
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