#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

Summary

Podcast Summary: Chief Change Officer Episode #408 - Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

Introduction

In Episode #408 of Chief Change Officer, host Vince Chan engages in an insightful two-part conversation with Jodi Silverman, founder of the Moms Who Dare community. Jodi shares her personal journey of transitioning from running a print business and raising a family to rediscovering her passions and purpose after her children have grown. This episode delves deep into the emotional and practical aspects of navigating the "empty nest" phase, offering listeners actionable strategies to outgrow themselves and embrace new beginnings.

Common Challenges Faced by Women in the Empty Nest

Jodi begins by highlighting the prevalent challenges women encounter once their children reach adulthood:

1. Feeling Disconnected from Adult Children: Many women feel a sense of detachment as their children transition into adulthood, often struggling to balance being present without becoming overbearing. As Jodi states, “[...] legal adults, but they’re not feeling disconnected” (02:28).

2. Loss of Purpose: The shift from daily parenting roles leaves many women searching for a new sense of purpose, having dedicated years to family life.

3. Difficulty in Forming New Friendships: With traditional avenues for connecting, such as school sports and activities, no longer available, women find it challenging to forge new friendships and community ties.

Jodi emphasizes that these challenges are especially pronounced during midlife and beyond, urging women to seek new connections and rediscover their individual identities.

Introducing the DARE Method

To address these challenges, Jodi introduces her DARE Method, a structured approach to personal transformation:

1. Decide: Make a conscious decision to focus on oneself. Jodi advises, “You get to put yourself at the top of the list now and start to discover or rediscover or reconnect to those lost passions” (05:45).

2. Awaken: Spark a renewed awareness of one’s desires and potential. “Awaken your heart again, awaken your mind again,” Jodi encourages (06:05).

3. Reimagine: Envision what life could look like beyond current circumstances. This involves reconnecting with past interests and dreaming about future possibilities.

4. Experience (Dare): Actively engage in new activities and experiences. Jodi suggests creating a list of interests and gradually daring to explore them, stating, “Daring doesn’t have to be a whole career change. It can be just little steps” (22:30).

Navigating the Transition from Fixer to Coach

A significant part of Jodi’s method involves shifting the parental role from a "fixer" to a "coach" or "advisor." By focusing on their own growth and boundaries, parents can foster healthier relationships with their adult children. Jodi shares her realization: “The number one parenting shift we all must make... is going from the fixer to the coach” (06:05).

Emotional Processing and Resilience

Jodi underscores the importance of confronting and understanding one’s emotions during this transition. She emphasizes that resilience stems from the ability to “think, feel and sit with our difficult emotions” (13:21). Acknowledging and processing these feelings is crucial for personal growth and building a resilient life post-parenting.

Insights on Fathers and the Empty Nest

The conversation shifts to how fathers experience the empty nest phase differently. Jodi discusses her husband Sam’s pragmatic approach to missing their children without feeling a deep sense of loss in purpose. She observes, “Most of the fathers I know... don’t have the same loss of purpose that a mom has” (09:32). Additionally, societal norms often condition men to mask their emotions, making their internal experiences less visible.

Maintaining and Rediscovering Couple Relationships

Jodi and Vince explore strategies for couples to maintain strong relationships after children leave home. Jodi introduces the concept of a Day Swap, where partners spend a day experiencing each other’s favorite activities. This practice fosters deeper understanding and reconnection. She elaborates, “Day swap allows each party... to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated” (18:54).

Practical Tips for Parents Feeling Overwhelmed

Towards the end of the episode, Jodi offers actionable advice for parents struggling with the empty nest transition:

1. Seek Professional Help: For those experiencing severe depression or anxiety, Jodi strongly recommends finding professional support: “If you are struggling to get up every day out of it, find help. Go find professional help, always” (20:44).

2. Create a Personal List: Jodi advises parents to write down a list of activities they enjoyed before parenthood. This “brain dump” helps identify passions that can be reignited.

3. Take Baby Steps: Start by daring to engage in new or old hobbies without the pressure of perfection. “If you don’t like doing it, you could take it off your list. I tried. I don’t like that anymore” (22:30).

4. Balance Togetherness and Independence: Maintain both shared interests with a partner and individual pursuits to ensure personal fulfillment alongside relational harmony.

Conclusion

Episode #408 of Chief Change Officer offers a compassionate and pragmatic approach to navigating the empty nest transition. Jodi Silverman’s DARE Method provides a roadmap for women to rediscover their identities, build new connections, and embrace new chapters with confidence. Her insights into the emotional landscapes of both mothers and fathers enrich the conversation, making it a valuable resource for anyone experiencing or anticipating this significant life change.

As Jodi aptly summarizes, “A better you is already unfolding.” Listeners are encouraged to take proactive steps towards personal growth, ensuring that the departure of children from the home becomes a gateway to new opportunities and self-discovery.

Notable Quotes:

• “Permission to say, okay, I get to focus on me. I get to put myself at the top of the list now...” (02:28)
• “The number one parenting shift we all must make... is going from the fixer to the coach” (06:05)
• “Daring doesn’t have to be a whole career change. It can be just little steps” (22:30)
• “Our ability to feel and sit and understand our emotions is what will eventually create a much more resilient world” (13:21)
• “Day swap allows each party in the day swap to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated” (18:54)

Additional Resources:

• Moms Who Dare Community: [Website Link]
• Follow Chief Change Officer on LinkedIn, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer

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This detailed summary captures the essence of Jodi Silverman’s conversation on Chief Change Officer, providing listeners with valuable insights and practical steps to navigate life changes post-parenting.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change. Progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jody Silverman, founder of the Moms who Dare community and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next. She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lit her up again. In this two part series, we talk about letting go of old roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jodie's story is honest, warm and refreshingly real. Let's get into it. So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face? And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen either from the group or ones you've helped them discover?

[B]

Yeah, the top issues that show up every time women join the Facebook group, they have to answer that question. Actually, Vince, they have to answer, what's your biggest challenge right now and what are you looking to gain by being part of this community? The biggest ones are the feeling disconnected from their now adult. I do with the quotes adult children because honestly, they're not adults at 18. They're just not, they're considered legal adults, but they're not feeling disconnected. And within the disconnection is wanting to be present in their life without being that helicopter parent, the lack of feeling like they have a purpose, they've lost their, their main purpose every day in their life and finding new friendships in this, it's a midlife chapter and beyond because this is the only time in a parent's life and I'll talk about moms because it's really the moms, the mom's life where her children are not the conduits to her. Meeting other mom friends, meaning there's no more play practice, no more basketball, there's no more soccer moms. And that's where we tend to meet our mom friends. So it's the learning how to connect and be a parent to adult children without hovering, finding and discovering their purpose. What do they even want to do, need to do, like to do because they put that on the back burner. And then connection, friendship, finding that community, the friendships, those are the three. And what's great about all three of those is so the parenting one, I literally, I actually have a specific technique and as far as parenting the adult children Let me back up one thing that can cover all three, that can help a mom navigate all three. The number one strategy is to shift your focus from them. Where it has been for all these years as a mom, as a full time. I'm back to you, back to you. So permission to say, okay, I get to focus on me. I get to put myself at the top of the list now and start to discover or rediscover or reconnect to those lost passions, those lost dreams. So shifting the focus onto you will help you not be filling your time so you're not worried. Constantly thinking about, where are they? What are they doing? I'm going to text them the cell phone, which I'm holding up right now. This is a great tool and a dangerous tool. Constantly connected. So if you took, you have ability to contact your child 24 7. That's not what this is for. So the first thing to do is to recognize that you get to put yourself first. And you must put yourself first. It will help you with your relationship with your now adult child because you are now focused on yourself, giving yourself them a little distance. When you're focused on a new hobby, a new business venture, you can't be texting 247 to your children and they don't want you to. And you become more interesting to your adult children. You have more conversation with them. And yet, with that being said, the number one parenting shift we all must make, and it really does. You brought this earlier events about being 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. The sooner that we can do this, we should be doing this throughout all of our parenting. And I was not good at this until I discovered it is going from the fixer to the coach. With our children.

[A]

This process isn't easy. Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch. It's more like turning a dimmer. The change happens gradually. So it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage. Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month. That way when the day actually comes when they really leave for college or move out, you are more ready for it.

[B]

I actually have a method for it. We call it the DARE method. We call it the DARE method. And it's deciding. It's as simple. It's a decision. A decision that you under. I'm ready to focus on myself. A decision that, okay, my kids, I'm doing what I did a great job. They're out there doing what they do. And by the way, Vince, you are never not a mom. You're just your Role as their mom is shifting and changing. But you are always their mom. My 29 and 26 year old still call me for advice. They only know what they know in the moment. So this whole thought process of I'm no longer a mom, I'm not needed. No, you are always a mom and you are needed always. Just in a different capacity and in different ways. So decide that you're ready now to accept this and focus on yourself. That's the D. The A is awaken once you make a decision. When I made a decision and answering that question, am I fulfilled? Is this what I want to be doing? When I said no, that was a decision. That was a decision and it awakened something within me. So awaken to what's possible. Awaken your heart again, awaken your mind again. Awaken that spirit inside of you that always likes to try something new. And then you get to go to the R, which is to reimagine. Reimagine. What could my life look and feel like? Reimagine about the things that you used to like to do. You know, go back and reconnect. To reconnect and reimagine. And then the E is the daring, that's the experiencing. Allow yourself to experience these new things. Create a list, like within the DA the DARE method, you're going to create a list of the things you used to like doing. What are the things that look like fun to do. And then you're going to just slowly dare to experience these new things. Maybe some are not so new, you just haven't done them in 10, 15 years. You have to take yourself through the. You have to feel the loss, Vince. You always have to feel your emotions. We cannot just move through emotions and ignore them because they will come up. It's a resilience thing. It's how quickly can you understand the emotion you're feeling, what you're having, why you're having it. And then once you can understand why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you can then say, okay, I'm ready to decide on what my next step will be. How can I move forward or move through it?

[A]

The empty nest experience isn't just something moms go through. Dads feel it too. So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it? What was his reaction like? How did he respond to the shift at home?

[B]

So I know for him, Sam has a unique ability, Vince. To compartmentalize events and things. His mother, my mother in law, was very pragmatic. Sam is a very pragmatic person with that. Sam said he was missing the kids. When we dropped Ellie, our oldest, we knew. I knew the minute we dropped Ellie off of college that she would only be visiting home moving forward. She would never be living permanently in our house again when she would come home for the holidays. But I knew that there was no way Ellie was going to move back home. And I remember when she graduated college, so Sam missed her. Sam missed her. He, Ellie was very big into basketball and that was a very bonding thing for Sam and Ellie, basketball. So he was going to miss her. And then when Daniel left, he was. He missed both kids. He missed both of them. And yet my husband's personal feeling was, now I get to hang out with you again, Jody. We get to do things we like to do, just the two of us, and when we're with our kids, we can have fun again. But he was really excited to move through that with us. Now I know that there are dads, I've spoken to dads, that it hits really hard. And, and yet I'm going to make a very big generalization. Most of the fathers I know, although they miss their kids, it doesn't hit them as, what's the word I'm looking for? As deeply or not deeply. That's not the right word. As emotionally. And maybe it's because most men don't give up their careers, I guess, but I don't know, maybe dads handle it differently. They miss their children, yet they seem to be handling it better. They don't have that loss of purpose that a mom has because now things are changing. In the future generations, you're seeing more dads, you're seeing more families because of the financial issues in the world. With daycare, more families sit down and say, okay, who makes more sense to stay home, the mom or the dad? Which parents should stay home? So there are more stay at home dads, work from home dads, and more fathers since the pandemic, are working remotely from home, so are taking a much more active role in the day to day activity of their children. So I'm curious to see as generations go on. My feeling for dads are that they miss their children and yet they don't have that feeling of disconnectedness that moms have. And they don't have the same loss of purpose. They feel sad, but they're not into the level of a mom. That's just been my experience.

[A]

I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less outwardly sentimental. Part of that comes from how society has shaped us across cultures, men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones. I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry while it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense. We're all human. We have sentiments, we have feelings. So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it. Maybe they shed tears in private, but that conditioning runs deep and it definitely shapes how they process things like the empty nest stage.

[B]

I think it's valid. I think it's valid. Yes, we are making some generalizations here. And yet it is valid because society still raises boys to not feel their emotions the way girls feel them. And it's wrong. It's wrong because I do believe what makes us strong, what makes us resilient, is our ability to think, feel and sit with our difficult emotions. That's what makes everybody. I don't care who you are, what gender you are, how old you are, our ability to feel and sit and understand our emotions is what will eventually create a much more resilient world.

[A]

So, quick side story. I was chatting with another guest recently. His father and both his kids had left home. We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff. But somehow this topic came up and what he shared was interesting. He said after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple, but instead they each returned to their individual selves. They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof but doing the things they loved independently. He said over the past 20 something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting. Now they are picking it back up again and for them it works. Have you seen that happen in your own experience, either in your family or with others in your community? Would you say that's a good thing?

[B]

So what I have found is that some women share that when the children are removed from the equation, they're left looking at each other. Who are we? Who are we as a couple? Who are you? When did you get could? Because the children have been everything in their world and there is a way it doesn't. I think some people get scared that their marriage might fall apart when the kids leave. It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. What I do agree with what that guest said is I strongly believe that you need common interests together, enjoy to do things together, and you also need your own interests and your own friends too. My, my husband Sam and I have that. We love being together. We like just hanging out Together, we go out together. We have couple friends. We go out as couples. And yet he has his golf, I have my tennis. He has lots of community through golf. I have my mom's. Who dare I plan events for just my moms. It's very important to have a sense of togetherness and a sense of self. It's very important to have both. I believe that to to have a successful, strong relationship partnership, there has to be both of that combined. I will share. Can I give one tip on this one? If you are a couple that's feeling disconnected with each other or from each other, my friend and a fellow coach who is brilliant at this, she came up with a great tip and I love it. It's my favorite one. It's called a day swap. And you can do it with your adult children as well, Vince. To feel more connected. So one person in the relationship plans their ideal day. What is her favorite thing to do? You are invited to come along on their perfect day. And then you swap and you do the other person. What that allows you to do is it reminds you of what this other person who you love so much, what lights them up, watching them enjoy and connects you back to what it is they really enjoy doing. And it's a shared experience. So a day swap with your adult children would be if they don't live at home anymore, you go visit them at college or you visit them wherever they live. You'll plan a day and take me around to all your favorite spots. You will feel reconnected to them. So now when you talk on the phone and they talk about I'm standing in line getting my latte, mom, you know exactly where they are. Ignites connection. And it allows you to see that other person view. A view through their eyes of what really lights them up. It's good. But yes, I believe you need both of that.

[A]

I really like what you said. Being together but still being yourself. You can have different interests. Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert. That's fine. And that day's wob idea is great. You get to rediscover each other, what they like, what's changed. Even something simple like gift giving becomes more thoughtful. Because we all change over time. If we do notice that in each other, that's when we start to feel disconnected.

[B]

Yeah. And it lets you. Day swap allows each party in the day swap to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated. And isn't that what we all really want? We want to be seen and heard. And it can't help but bring you closer because you abandon anything that you feel or think and you're just there to be with this person and witness what they, what it is they truly enjoy doing. So it's a wonderful dare to do.

[A]

Today. You've shared a lot of great insights from the importance of togetherness and self to ideas like the day's walk and a deeper approach to identity change. I really like that one. Slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss when your kids leave home. You also reminded us that being a mom never ends. The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains. And as you said, we don't need to be the best friends. We died, we let go and we keep building a life of our own. So if there's a parent listening right now, maybe still feeling down, stuck or overwhelmed by the emptiness, what would you say to them? What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again?

[B]

If somebody is really bad, like really down and out. And I know the words depression, anxiety are thrown around very loosely in our world today, but if you are struggling to get up every day out of it, find help. Go find professional help, always. Because there are some people that it affects so deeply that they need help. That's. I'll just say that out loud. The first thing I would tell anybody's to do is make a decision and understand that you are always their mom and that you are going to shift from the fixer of all things to being there. As I love the coach or advisor, I love the word advisor, that you are ready to let them go. They will call you and reach out when they need help and when they do, you're an advisor, you're going to help them. You're not going to fix things. And then for yourself. Start with a list. Start with a list. Write a list of everything that. What are things I used to like doing before I was even like anybody's girlfriend, wife, husband, boyfriend, whatever it is, partner. What are the things you used to like doing without judgment? No judgment. Just like it's called a brain dump. What did I used to like to ride my bike? I used to like riding a bike. I used to like hiking. It's like cooking, whatever it is, write a list. What are things that other people doing that when you see them doing, you're like, wow, that looks really fun. That looks cool. I think I could do that. And it can be a hobby, it could be a career. And then once you make your list without judgment, read through the list and tap into how you feel and start to dare to experience the things on your list. And here's what I'm going to say, Vince, because a lot of people don't. They get stuck in this part. This is the taking action, the daring part. They don't. Because what if they fail? What if they don't like it? That's great. If you don't like doing it, you could take it off your list. I tried. I don't like that anymore. You might discover something else. You make room if you try. Say you register for a class and you just fail miserably at learning a new language. You wanted to learn how to speak Mandarin. You totally feel it's okay. That's okay. What did you learn from that? Move on to the next thing. So make a decision, make a list and just start small steps. Daring doesn't have to be a whole career change. It can be. It can be just little steps. And if you have a side hustle or a hobby maybe, really look at that and ask yourself, how would this feel if I now put more time into my hobby? Could I make it into a business too? How does that feel when I say that? So make a list, little baby steps. And find somebody to step out with you if you want.

[A]

And that's the end for our two part series on Jody Silverman. Jodie's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end, it's an opening. Whether you are a parent, partner or just someone trying to figure out what's next, her dare method is a good place to start. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us top rated reviews, check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm this Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.