Chief Change Officer Podcast

Episode #422: Kevin Eikenberry — Leading on Purpose, Not by Default (Part Two)
Date: July 6, 2025
Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Kevin Eikenberry

Episode Overview

In this deep-dive continuation, host Vince Chan and renowned leadership thinker Kevin Eikenberry unpack the essence of flexible leadership—a concept at the heart of Eikenberry’s latest book, Flexible Leadership. The conversation explores why rigid leadership styles often backfire, what stays constant amid relentless change, and how leaders must intentionally flex approaches to meet new challenges. Eikenberry introduces a practical formula for flexibility and re-centers leadership on unchanging human truths, challenging listeners to “outgrow themselves” by transcending habits and styles. This is not just a leadership lesson, but a transformative blueprint for personal and organizational change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Really Changes—and What Never Does

• Human Nature is Constant (03:44)
  • Kevin explains that while technology and context have evolved—from fax machines to AI—the fundamentals of leadership and human behavior remain unchanged.
    • Quote:

      "Teams behave in certain ways based on team dynamics. And human beings are still human beings. Amazing, wonderful, remarkable, and messy. ... There are truths about leading, there are truths about influencing, there are truths about human behavior and group dynamics that aren't changing." — Kevin (04:50)

• Managing Change Anxiety (03:44)
  • Leaders often compound anxiety by emphasizing only what’s changing, rather than grounding teams in what stays the same.

From Digitalization to True Transformation

• Mediums Change, Core Needs Remain (07:55)
  • Shifting learning from print to digital isn’t transformation; the need for connection, demonstration, and real-time guidance remains.
    • Quote:

      "The fundamental need for people to see a demonstration and to get advice from someone in real time… that hasn't changed. All that changed was how we were able to deliver it." — Kevin (08:39)

  • Leaders should look “a little higher” to discern what’s truly new, and what’s an old need in new clothes.

The Flexible Leadership Equation

• Defining Flexible Leadership (09:47, 11:12)
  • Model = Intention + Context + Flexor
    • Intention: The conscious choice to pause and select the best approach, not default to habits.
    • Context: Full analysis of the environment and what is (or isn’t) known.
    • Flexor: The dimensions on which you consciously adjust (e.g., seeking compliance vs. commitment).
    • All three must be actively developed; “[b]Mathematically, you could just say 0 + 0 + 3 = 3, the answer is still 3. But… to truly be a flexible leader, we need to develop all three components….”[/b] — Vince (09:54)
• Challenging Habitual Leadership (11:12, 16:49)
  • Our natural style is only a starting point—true growth and flexibility mean going beyond instinct.
    • Quote:

      "To be flexible means maybe that natural response is… a great approach. But we can't know that until we stop long enough to think about it." — Kevin (11:24)

  • Leadership models/assessments (Myers-Briggs, StrengthsFinder, etc.) are helpful—but limiting if we let them become our core identity.
    • Quote:

      “All of those are models. And models are a simplification… If I am identifying myself by this style… the ability for me to flex is dampened significantly.” — Kevin (17:11)

Understanding “Flexors”: Adjusting Across Situational Axes

• Flexor Example: Compliance vs. Commitment (18:59)
  • Most leaders prefer to “lead for commitment," but in chaotic situations, compliance might be sufficient. The skill is knowing which to choose—and when.
    • Quote:

      "[Q]uite often… leaders aren't leading for commitment, they're leading for compliance… if the situation is truly chaotic, people just need you to give." — Kevin (19:12)

  • Flexors are continua—best results often come from somewhere in the middle, flexed intentionally for the context.
    • Quote:

      "The best answer isn't at the ends… but rather… based on the context." — Kevin (21:53)

• Political Analogy (21:53)
  • “If you think about right and left politically as a flexor, we are almost always better able to make real progress… by everyone flexing and finding a place that works.” — Kevin (22:50)

The Mindset, Skillset, Habit Model

• Sustainability of Change (24:26, 25:14)
  • Leadership growth is layered: Mindset leads to Skillset, which—through repetition—becomes Habit.
    • Quote:

      “For us to be successful... developing our skills, we must develop first… the mindset that matches the skill set, and then we must move toward a habit set.” — Kevin (25:50)

  • The ultimate leadership habit: intentionally pausing (intention), reading the context, and choosing how to flex—rather than simply acting.

The Impact of Environment

• Leadership is more than individual heroism—it’s environmental orchestration.
  • Quote:

    “70 to 80% of behavior in organizations is shaped by the environment, not individual traits. So… build the kind of environment that brings out the right, the best fit behaviors for the whole organization.” — Vince (27:31)

• Kevin strongly agrees: “100%. Yeah, 100%.” (28:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 04:50 | Kevin | “Teams behave in certain ways based on team dynamics. And human beings are still human beings. Amazing, wonderful, remarkable, and messy. ... And there are truths about leading, there are truths about influencing, There are truths about human behavior and group dynamics that aren't changing.” | | 08:39 | Kevin | “The fundamental need for people to see a demonstration and to get advice from someone in real time… that hasn't changed. All that changed was how we were able to deliver it.” | | 11:24 | Kevin | “To be flexible means maybe that natural response is… a great approach. But we can't know that until we stop long enough to think about it.” | | 17:11 | Kevin | “All of those are models. And models are a simplification… If I am identifying myself by this style… the ability for me to flex is dampened significantly.” | | 19:12 | Kevin | “Quite often… leaders aren't leading for commitment, they're leading for compliance… if the situation is truly chaotic, people just need you to give.” | | 21:53 | Kevin | “The best answer isn't at the ends… but rather… based on the context.” | | 22:50 | Kevin | “If you think about right and left politically as a flexor, we are almost always better able to make real progress… by everyone flexing and finding a place that works.” | | 25:50 | Kevin | “For us to be successful... developing our skills, we must develop first… the mindset that matches the skill set, and then we must move toward a habit set.” | | 27:31 | Vince | “70 to 80% of behavior in organizations is shaped by the environment, not individual traits. So… build the kind of environment that brings out the right, the best fit behaviors for the whole organization.” | | 28:26 | Kevin | “100%. Yeah, 100%.” | | 29:12 | Kevin | “You don't need to change the things that aren't changing. ... The what of leading is not changing nearly as much as our need to change the how...” | | 30:06 | Kevin | “As we become a better leader, we become a better human being and vice versa.” |

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:05] - Kevin on navigating uncertainty and the purpose of Flexible Leadership
• [03:44] - What never changes in leadership and why that matters
• [07:55] - The myth of “digital transformation” vs. the reality of lasting human needs
• [09:47] - Introducing the Flexible Leadership Model (Intention, Context, Flexor)
• [11:12] - Why habitual leadership is limiting, and the need to transcend style assessments
• [18:59] - Explaining “flexors”: compliance vs. commitment and other leadership axes
• [24:26] - The Mindset, Skillset, Habit trio—how sustainable change is built
• [27:12] - The overwhelming power of environment in shaping organizational behavior
• [28:41] - Kevin’s closing reflections and encouragement
• [30:29] - Special offer: Free access to Kevin Eikenberry’s confidence masterclass

Final Takeaways

• Flexible leadership is not abandoning your values; it’s about applying them in ways that truly work for the context.
• Real transformation starts not with new tools, but with intentional awareness, contextual analysis, and skillful adjustment.
• Leadership growth is anchored in self-reflection: habitual reliance on styles or models can inhibit flexibility, limiting effectiveness.
• The best leaders don’t just change their strategy—they change how they decide when and how to flex, developing deep habits of contextual judgment.
• The environment leaders create has a profound effect, sometimes more than personal brilliance or charisma.

Gift Mentioned in the Episode

Kevin Eikenberry offered listeners free access (normally $79) to his masterclass on building confidence in yourself and others.
Find it at KevinEikenberry.com/gift (31:17).

Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Kevin Eikenberry
“Because you are the Chief Change Officer.”