Podcast Summary: Chief Change Officer

Episode #425: Waverly Deutsch — Love and Logic—Building Businesses That Actually Work—Part One
Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Waverly Deutsch
Date: July 8, 2025

Overview

In this first installment of a three-part series titled “Love and Logic,” host Vince Chan sits down with Waverly Deutsch—educator, entrepreneur, and founder of Wise Heart—to examine how the interplay of love and logic has shaped Waverly’s unconventional career. The episode charts Waverly's journey from a theater- and logic-loving student to a tech analyst at Forrester Research, exploring how she balanced her social/emotional passions with rational, analytical thinking. Listeners are offered an authentic account of navigating careers, identity, and challenging norms, with practical wisdom on blending heart and head when making major life choices.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origin of “Love and Logic” in Waverly’s Life

• The Childhood Duality:

  • Waverly embraces both her creative/theatrical side (inspired by outings with her mother) and her affinity for math, logic puzzles, and later, computer science.
  • [05:00] “People have both sides of their brain, and they're using both sides... As a child, I fell in love with theater... I was good at math and logic puzzles...” — Waverly

• Navigating Career Preparation:

  • Initially set on a dual major in theater and business, she is advised to skip business as an undergrad and instead pursue a subject with transferable depth—leading her to computer science.
  • This results in a unique blend—majors in theater and computer science, bringing together performance and logic:
    • [07:55] “They were really very separate disciplines that I was bringing together in my own life and in my own mind.” — Waverly

2. Identity, Gender, and Community in Male-Dominated Spaces

• Being a Minority in STEM:

  • As one of very few women in her computer science classes in the 1980s, Waverly found allyship with other “nerdy” students and benefited from a rare female department head.
  • [09:41] “I got along really well with my nerdy computer science classmates... but they were two totally different worlds.” — Waverly

• Challenging Gender Norms:

  • Waverly’s experience as a “tomboy” and with nonconformity to gender expectations informs her worldview and professional resilience.
    • [11:57] “I do not comply with gender norms. I never have... I have always felt this blend of the masculine and feminine in my life.”

• Generational Change & Pride:

  • Reflects on the growth of gender fluidity and acceptance of diverse identities over time.
  • [12:26] “One of the amazing things to watch... is how the younger generations have embraced this gender ambiguity, gender fluidity...” — Waverly

3. Teaching as a Calling, Academia and its Limits

• Blending Theater and Logic in Teaching:

  • Teaching offered Waverly a way to combine her analytical capacity and love for performance, using “theatricality, entertainment, humor” to make challenging material engaging.
  • [13:08] “Being able to structure a subject... but then to present it with a little bit of theatricality, a little bit of entertainment... this is where these two things came together in me.” — Waverly

• Academia’s Constraints:

  • The 90s recession and academic job scarcity, coupled with a dislike for the narrow focus of humanities research, led her to seek more direct, current impact beyond academia.
  • [16:00] “I loved the teaching part... I did not love the research requirements... My dissertation is on the career of a woman named Laura Keane... and I started to realize these are not really impactful issues in our day to day lives.” — Waverly

4. Pivoting to the Business World: “A Door When You Need One”

• Forrester Research and Entrepreneurship:
  • A chance dinner conversation introduced Waverly to Forrester—a tech market research startup. Her skillset (PhD-level research and CS background) made her a standout.
  • Forrester’s growth gave her a close-up view of entrepreneurial scaling and company building.
    • [21:18] “If there’s one thing a PhD proves that you can do, it’s research... I joined Forrester as the first research associate they hired directly... That’s where I fell in love with the entrepreneurial process.” — Waverly

5. Decision-Making: The Heart, the Head, and the Blend

• Instinct vs. Analysis—How it Changes Over Time:

  • Early career moves (e.g., joining Forrester) were made on gut feeling, with little analysis.

    • [23:43] “The moment in my life where I had the opportunity to join Forrester. No analysis was involved... It was a gut feeling.” — Waverly

  • Later transitions (post-Forrester) became more strategic, involving career coaching and logical assessment of fit.

    • [26:21] “Instead of joining any one company... I decided I would create a small consulting company... to see what kind of work I really liked and to see if there was a company I wanted to grow with full time.”

6. Head vs. Heart Moments – Emotions in Professional Life

• A Defining Story on Blending Logic and Emotion:

  • Waverly recounts a pivotal conversation with Forrester’s CEO:
    • [28:28] “I was having an incredibly hard conversation... and I started to cry... and I literally said... ‘George, I can cry and think at the same time.’... For me, that was an extremely liberating moment.”

• Lessons from Disregarding Intuition:

  • The one time Waverly took a job based solely on “head logic” (ignoring her gut), it quickly ended badly.

    • [33:18] “The one time I went with head, it was a disaster. I lasted six months. I parted ways with the company. My intuition about these guys was right.”

  • Emphasizes the value of “doing all the logical analysis... but if your gut is telling you this is a bad idea, listen to it.”

7. Social Pressures, Role Models, and Internal GPS

• Filtering Out the Noise:

  • Both love (heart) and logic (head) are influenced by community, society, and upbringing—not just internal compass.
    • [37:20] “Our emotions and our heart are influenced by the people around us... being able to find a community that supports you... is one of the big challenges of people’s lives.” — Waverly

• Resilience through Self-Acceptance:

  • Growing up in a fundamentalist Christian household and breaking away as a young adult gave Waverly resilience and independence from peer pressure.
    • [38:38] “I had to separate from my community... by having as a very young person... to give up community, even give up family for a while, it made me more resistant to heavy influence by outside community forces.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gendered Stereotypes of Love and Logic:
  [10:24] “Very often love gets attributed to the feminine and logic gets attributed to the masculine. And they have always been a blend in my life, and I fundamentally believe that they are a blend in humanity that we artificially separate.” — Waverly

• On Logic vs. Intuition in Entrepreneurs:
  [32:24] “No entrepreneur has enough data to make a purely analytical decision. You have to go with your gut... That’s the thing that drives entrepreneurs.” — Waverly

• On Crying at Work:
  [28:28] “George, I can cry and think at the same time. We can have this conversation.” — Waverly

• On Peer Pressure and Community:
  [37:20] “Community is one of the primary sources of happiness in life... Being able to find a community that supports you... is one of the big challenges... I think that having to lose a community and having to rebuild gave me... a complete inoculation to what other people think.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:12-04:10 — Introduction: Love in Business & the Genesis of the Series
• 05:00-10:24 — Waverly’s Early Life: Theater, Logic, and Navigating Gender
• 13:08-16:00 — Realizing a Lifelong Love of Teaching; Academia’s Shortcomings
• 15:57-21:18 — Leaving Academia: A Pivot to Forrester Research
• 23:43-26:21 — Instinct-led vs. Analytical Career Decisions
• 27:49-31:32 — Story: Balancing Emotion and Logic in a Pivotal Work Confrontation
• 32:20-35:15 — The Head, the Heart, and Critical Career Lessons
• 35:15-40:34 — Social Pressures, The Influence of Community, and Building Resilience

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, human, and reflective—celebrating nuance, vulnerability, and the deep interplay between feeling and analysis in both career and life. Both Vince and Waverly speak with a mix of humility, wisdom, and humor, sharing stories and lessons that transcend typical career “tips,” focusing instead on transformation and authentic self-discovery.

Takeaways

• Embrace both love and logic: The best decisions, especially in uncertain entrepreneurial situations, are made by honoring intuition and emotion alongside rational analysis.
• Nonconformity is strength: Challenging social, gender, or professional norms can foster resilience and lead to a more authentic—if non-linear—career.
• Community and internal compass: Seek supportive communities but don’t let external pressures override your own values; sometimes self-acceptance means leaving behind what’s familiar to grow.
• Emotions belong in business: Emotions are not just acceptable—they can be powerful guides, even (or especially) in the context of high-stakes decision making.

Stay tuned for Part Two, where the focus shifts to Waverly’s 22-year chapter guiding innovators and entrepreneurs at Chicago Booth, and how she tailors love and logic to nurture the next generation of leaders.