← Chief Change Officer
Chief Change Officer
From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change
00:33:42
What would it take to leave a high-powered career as a global legal counsel managing billion-dollar transactions for the world’s largest banks to pursue impact in a developing African economy? Most would hesitate, but not Fatou Sagna Sow. She embraced the challenge, showing what it means to be a true change progressive. Hear her inspiring journey of doing good while doing well.
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- [00:00]
Trevor Sikoma
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- [02:04]
Vince Chan
Hi everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change. Progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Imagine this. You are in Paris, the City of Lights where you were born and raised. Picture yourself as a highly skilled in house consul and one of the world's largest banking groups, overseeing a team of 50 and spearheading billion dollar financial transactions. Life isn't just good, it's picture perfect. Now what if I challenged you to leave it all behind? What if I invited you to move with your whole family to Senegal? A vibrant country in West Africa wants a French colony to start afresh. Would you take the lead? For many, the answer would be a no. But today's guest isn't just anyone. Join me as I chat with Fatou Zenga So a remarkable individual. I had the pleasure of studying together during our executive MBA classes in London and in Singapore with Chicago Booth. She has since moved from the well established legal profession to economic development, technical advisory and youth entrepreneurship in Senegal. In her own words, she aims not just to succeed, but to create magic. What drives a person to embrace such profound change? How does a lawyer used to practicing set laws, becoming a chief change officer, making her own laws of change for careers, for communities and for societies for two is going to tell her own story.
- [04:36]
Fatou Zenga
Hi Vince. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to talk to you again.
- [04:41]
Vince Chan
Thank you. I'm so glad you agreed to come on board. Wow, it's been how many years? Last time I saw you in Singapore, is that right?
- [04:53]
Fatou Zenga
Well, last time I saw you, Vince, actually it was in Singapore. It was in 2013, so indeed, long, long time. At this time I was a financial lawyer at Bank Sarc Gent in Paris. And I was also a municipality consul of a small town in France, finishing my six year terms as a municipality council. So long, long time in IT as a background. As you know, I'm a financial lawyer. I studied law. I always wanted to study law because law is the way you manage people to live together in a city. And I always wanted to to know the rules and be able to be part of the police, the law makers and policymakers. So I studied law, of course, but I really wanted to be an economic lawyer. So I studied business law. I took a finance course as well. I also studied it. I started to work as a financial lawyer in different law firms in France. In Paris. Very exciting. Both French and US law firms. Very exciting. And then I moved to bank industry. I first started working at the central in the central of Paris in the BNP Paris Bas bank as a financial lawyer. And then I moved to Susagen, which is the second major bank in France. This is where I spent most of my career in Societe General bank in Paris. And before I leave, I decided to make the big change you mentioned earlier. I was born in Paris, I grew up there, I studied there, I started working there. My family is still there. My twins were born in Paris. So I decided to quit this environment I've always known to start a new adventure in Africa and specifically in Senegal, which is my own country as well.
- [06:57]
Vince Chan
Yeah, so you moved from where you were born and raised back to your root, your origin in Africa. Now, before we go deep into the Africa situation, what actually moved you to take this leap of faith from legal profession in banking back to your root. There must be a lot of thought going on, a lot of debate, perhaps in your mind and among your family members. What happened then?
- [07:34]
Fatou Zenga
I was born in Paris, but I have two cultures. I think this is a chain. Having two citizenship is a chance. So I only had the occasion to experience my French citizenship. And I did it fully. But I felt it was like calling me, because I knew there was this challenging country for me. I used to go in Senegal very often, but it was for vacation. Coming here on vacation, you don't get to know the real country as I know it now from the inside. I was very successful, professionally speaking, in France, working in a bank, a great position, making good money. My kids were fine, everything was okay. But I felt like I was not challenging myself enough. And in 2000, I looked at my country, Senegal, and I heard about the coming election, presidential election. So I decided to be part of this. I wanted to get involved with Senegal in a political way because I always loved politics. And so I started dealing with politics, being a representative of the Senegalese party, but in Paris, talking, dealing with the Senegalese who were living in Paris. So I was heading this protocol, the brains of the party there. And this was a revelation to me. I started knowing a lot of people, people from Senegal, but with very high level in politics, in public policymakers. And I started to learn more, more details about my country, about economics, about the politics, when it comes to really living Senegal. And this was a challenge for me to see whether this kind of change is something that I could handle and to see how all the skills that I had and the professional experience I've gained in presence, how those skills will be helpful. For me, it's been a long process of preparation. It's a 360 degree change. As you can see, I'm a mom, so I have to make it in the most responsible way. So it took some time. I entered the politic way. I dealt with this network for 10 years. And I prepared all that. I followed the economics news, the politic news from Senegal, and I kept talking to my people here. When my kids were born in 2010, I came in Senegal for almost a year, so I really could have a good preparation from the inside. So since then, the year I finally relocated to Senegal, I decided to go. And nobody could understand that because I had such a great position at the bank. I was in the cabinet of the group general counsel. So it was a surprise for my mom. She thought I was crazy. For my friends, family and for my boss, for my managers and so on. But I knew what I wanted to do and I did have to live this experience. So I jumped. Everything is constantly changing and you need to adapt. And if you don't adapt, it means you're not going to make it and you might not be successful. And still here I am in Senegal, happy with my family. I think I did well.
- [11:18]
Vince Chan
Sounds like it was a calculated decision. It wasn't a verse of a moment thing. You were prudent enough to plan ahead. Now you move in the year 2016, now it's 2024. For eight years you've explored opportunities, you experienced new life. Now I was wondering what one thing, what that one thing is that motivate you? If I have to ask you to come up with one word, would you say identity? I sense that for you, born and raised in the developed economy, France, Paris, legal profession, stability, that is part of your identity. But you have the other piece of you which lies in your root, in your origin. You identify with it, you resonate with it. You see a lot of things going on. You really want to do something about it. I think identity is your calling. Would you agree?
- [12:38]
Fatou Zenga
Yeah. The reason I made those change, this big change, I mean, there are three main reasons. First of all, yeah, I wanted to challenge myself and to see the full expression of myself. What does it mean being Satou in Senegal, this Paris born girl, how can she handle this identity of her in Senegal? What will she become? I was curious about that. And of course it was a question of identity. Who am I? I'm also Senegalese. And it was a question of embracing this second citizenship as well. My roots, my home country. I did not want it to just experience France. I love France, of course, most of my life. I believe that this is the French experience. So I really want to live something different. And the third reason I made this page change is because probably I wanted to give a different sense to my life. Being successful might not be and to make goals for people. We need to seek for happiness. You need to think that what you're doing is helping others and. And you need to believe that your life makes sense matters. So working in a bank, making good money, being very successful, handling like I did, a team of 51 people, a global team. Great. But at the end of the day, what are you doing for people really? Just making money. Transaction, Billion dollar transaction. But so what I knew I had this occasion in Senegal to start working on economic development projects and to see very simple project and to see how I can have a huge impact. So I felt Like, I had to make this move for myself to feel like my life did matter. And of course, as I mentioned, I'm a mother, so I wanted my kids to experience, to fully experience the second country of there. And they can always go to France where they were born, where their grandma is and so on. And I think this will develop something for them that I could not experience myself. The world is a global thing. Yeah. There's no barrier, actually understanding that the world is huge.
- [15:16]
Vince Chan
Yeah. You are setting up a role model for your children. They see you in action. They see that, oh, my mother making a move. I mean, honestly, a lot of things, I'm sure, going on in your life in Africa and they are there with you, they see a lot of things which they most likely won't see in France. Yes. After they grow up, they can move back to France or move to other countries to be adventurous, to do whatever they want to do to create impact for themselves as well as for other people. Because that's what my mother has done for Africa, for many other countries. So now let's spend the rest of our time on Africa. Tell us about your time as a technical advisor. What did you see? What have you done? What challenges were you facing at that point?
- [16:18]
Fatou Zenga
It has been such a reward for me only two years after I relocated to Dakar and to be appointed technical advisor to the fourth, the personality here in Senegal, the former prime Minister, my friend, Dr. Aminata Datu. I have to admit that the political decision I made to join this Senegalese politic in Tuquet paid off when I came here because she's someone I met in this political party. And since then we've kept good relations during all these years. So I came here. She knows me. She know I can work. She know I can challenge myself very well. So she decided to appoint me in a cabinet as a technical advisor. And this conseil. Economic, Social. Economic, social and environment and console from Senegal where I was working is an amazing institution here in Senegal. It's aiming at advising the government on different reforms and conduct studies, investigations and make suggestions for reform, aiming at fostering the economy, the social and the environmental development of the country. It gave me a global view of all, the entire economy of the entire society. And it was great for me being just as, you know, a French girl coming to Senegal only two years before for that appointment. So this was such an amazing position for me to have a clear understanding of the economics, of the social reality here, of the environmental issues and so on. So that's what I did And I'm happy. I'm very glad because the President gave me full attitude to do whatever it is that I wanted to do so I could work on blue economy, green economy, industrialization challenge. To me, the next revolution in Africa is industrialization. I also studied work on Project for Sport and Development. The sport industry in Africa is only 1% of the GDP which is very low. It's an amazing potential for this simple industry. So I worked a lot on it issues, Metro commendation, wrote memos I did also I was invited to many seminars, major events, representation, the President we discovered recently that Senegal has gas and petrol country in the west of Africa. And globally speaking, Africa is a continent that everybody's looking at because there's so many things to do here. Every country is just growing and growing and we are anticipating to grow very fast in the coming years. So this is the place to be if you want to experience new business areas and if you want to challenge yourself and see how you can start new businesses. So many opportunities. That was amazing.
- [19:45]
Vince Chan
Wow. It sounds like a dream come true for you. Well, but to be honest, in life in Korea, when we are in the process of making changes, whatever those are is not a on off switch is never perfect. In one of our episodes, in fact the first episode, I interview our classmate Pei Ling who is a parliamentarian in Singapore now. She won the battle, won the election, but she admits that during that period of time, the campaigning or even post campaigning, it was the darkest period in her life. She overcame it. But it's a process. So in your case, tell us honestly, have you ever felt any moment of regret or discouragement or depression or difficulties? Any sort of those? And how did you make through it?
- [20:56]
Trevor Sikoma
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- [22:43]
Fatou Zenga
Making such a change of course you will face difficulties. Honestly speaking, I left a great job making good money and I started working here in an ngo. I can't even tell you the paycheck. My fear was not to be successful professionally speaking and not to be able to take care of the kids at the end of the day. Are you making the best environment that you can for the kids and are you taking all the responsibility that you have? But I'm a strong person so like I said, I did prepare myself so I have a great network here. I know many ministers, very high level person here. So I'm not alone. And my husband was born here and he has such an amazing network here. And also my husband, he's working here. He's been working in the public area for years. That's why I met him in Tulum in 2k also so it was not such a challenge to me. You can always at the end of the day be successful because I love politics, I have a real passion for that and I started being the head of the President Macron political party field. I've been heading it in 17 and also for his re election in 2018. So this position widened my network and it was passionate to be part of the two presidential election in France. I always wanted to keep an eye on France and also and also be involved in France. In 2022 I decided to run for the election for the Deputation in France. If I'd been elected, I would have represented the French people living in West Africa and in the Arabic countries. So this is something that I will probably try again and run in five years. All those experiences, political experiences, has been great and very important in the construction of the person that I am now. I've started my own business, my own consulting feat, firm name New Deal Consulting. I know that all those networks, political network, professional network, are crucial to what I'm doing now every day. So I'm lucky I had this network and I can work easily with that.
- [25:26]
Vince Chan
Is of course you build up a lot of credential reputation in the political circle, which is important, which is an asset, which is a capital. And now you are playing a consultant role I'm curious to know about in your country now, what are some of the issue challenges or opportunities you try to overcome for the country as a consultant?
- [25:52]
Fatou Zenga
Yeah, you know, in Senegal we are living in a difficult period, a political period as we speak. And it's. It's been for a while now. This is an election period in Senegal. We are re electing at the end of the month our new president. This has been a long process of contestation and the election was aiming at. We were supposed to vote last month on the 25th and the election had been postponed, many opponents had been put in jail, many young people arrested. Really the situation here is not the best for the economy. So I'm making connection with the private sector, the administration and also with the people, foreign people who want to come to Africa, to Senegal specifically and to start business here. And specifically I. I'm working with young people who are curious about Africa and want to come and have an experience of professional, a real professional experience. And why not start being an entrepreneur here in Senegal? So all this political, hard political context is terrible for business. This is a challenge we have and we have been electing for mayor, the parliament and now is the presidential election. So it's been for four or three years at least that we've been in this unstable environment, political environments. This is big challenge I'm facing.
- [27:35]
Vince Chan
You mentioned about building an entrepreneurship ecosystem for the young people in Senegal. So which projects make you most proud of? Can you share some example?
- [27:53]
Fatou Zenga
You remember you and I experienced the boot experience, Chicago booth experience, putting together people coming from different countries, from different horizons, different cultural knowledges and we could observe the magic. And this is what I'm trying to do, put together people with different perspectives and making them working on different projects. One of projects I'm Dealing with right now with my consulting firm. It's called no Nana. This project is about transforming banana fiber and turning it into sanitary pads for women. It has never been done in Senegal, in Africa. Here in Africa, we have very talented young people who cannot find jobs, who are desperate, some are even dying, trying to travel to Europe. So I'm trying to put young and people who love Africa, who are living outside of the continent and people here and young people here together, mixing them. I have five students coming from France. They're coming from different cities in France. Four of them came last February and they're here until July. And young people that are here in Senegal and that are about to be graduate from the US Polytechnic, which is a major business school here in Dakar. This project Lunana is a perfect fit to me because this is bus culture, French and Senegalese culture. And I observe all those people, very talented people that each and every one of them are working together. Each and every one of them are bringing their skills, their experience. And I could see the magic and it's very exciting to me working on that kind of project. So I can work on either industrialization project just like no Lana. I also have project in green industry, in blue industry. Aquaculture is an amazing potential. Has an amazing potential here in Africa and in Senegal and so on. I think this changed the perspective of the young people who are sometimes desperate here when they are in the continent of the future. So putting them together with people, young people that are coming from Europe, working on project here, it's definitely a goal for me and I'm happy so far very successful with this linear projects.
- [30:32]
Vince Chan
Well, you're linking cultures, you're linking talents, you're linking skills, you're linking experiences.
- [30:38]
Fatou Zenga
So the benefits of Africa for the benefits of Africa because there's so many things to do here and so many things are not done. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:47]
Vince Chan
Before COVID I was involved in the education technology space among all the countries in the world. One of those excitement actually happened in Africa. A lot of young talent, they all crave for more education, newer skills. If we think of it as we are economists, basically there's a huge workforce that yet to be tapped into and that would be a huge productivity growth if you can make the best use of this Helen Pool in that region. So I can wait enough to hear more stories, more success stories from you about linking Europeans with Africans and possibly even other parts of the world to create that kind of magic?
- [31:42]
Fatou Zenga
Yeah. Just yesterday I've been interviewed by a woman who's an entrepreneur in Monaco in the south of France. She's really interested in Senegal. She comes often in Senegal and we are about to build linked between Monaco and Senegal as well. There are great school over there. People need to have great perspective and I'm ready to welcome them here in Senegal and start working. At the end of the day those students are going to be part of a new business. They will have shares and they will have this experience, this entrepreneurial experience in Senegal, which is great.
- [32:25]
Vince Chan
So first start with France and then Mondaco. Right. And so that would be other countries coming on board.
- [32:32]
Fatou Zenga
Yeah, I'm work, I'm talking with the economic consul in embassy from Portugal, from China, I went there from India, I talked to them from Korea and so on and Japanese I went, I discussed with the Japanese ambassador himself and I'm really involved with the Japanese corporation here and we are about to do a lot of things. They have a great program of taking young people from Africa to Japan for one, two years school, internships and come back and those young people, very talented people who get to be close to the Japanese culture are coming back in Africa. We have 20 Japanese group in Senegal. Talk to those people and see what kind of small business those students can start around the group activities and create a link between all those people. There's so many things to do. I started with France, naturally, but I'm open because it's really a great country and we are open to work with everybody, with the entire world, of course.
- [33:45]
Vince Chan
So I'm sure when I invite you back next time for interview you'll say, well Vince, well it's not just for us. No, I got another 10 countries or 20 countries. I won't be shocked to hear that I I've occupied your airtime for long. I do want to say thank you so much for sharing and I will of course like to invite you back to hear more of those magic, magical stories you're trying to create. But we'll save it for next time. We'll build the momentum so that we'll have the part two.
- [34:21]
Fatou Zenga
Well, thank you so much. I love it very much talking and it remind me of where I'm coming from, what I did. And it's great to sometimes sit and think of what has been done and what's again to be done. So thank you again for this moment. Really did appreciate. Life is about change, challenging yourself and see how far what's the best person you can be. It involves change, it involves challenging yourself going outside your comfort zone. But of course you have to prepare when you wake up in the morning and just move. This is not the point but you need to challenge yourself and put yourself in a situation that will obviously make you change and obviously for the better. So thank you so much.
- [35:14]
Vince Chan
No problem.
- [35:15]
Fatou Zenga
You enjoyed what I said and what I tried to express with my experience changing from Europe, France to Africa, Senegal has been the probably the best, best choice I ever made in my life and I'm really thankful for that. Thank you.
- [35:32]
Vince Chan
Well, I would say as a conclusion, you study law, you study all kinds of law book, you memorize all the rules and stuff. But now you are making your own playbook, your own law book for change, for magic. This program, this show is about making changes, making your own laws of change. You are truly a role model of creating your own law book, your own playbook. I'm really glad that I invited you in the very first place and really appreciate your time. I would encourage you since you're reaching out to different people. What you share here, I'll release it as an episode. You should also share this link to your counterparts and they would care to know about your motivation. You as a founder story. I mean why for two years doing this and then they listen to this? Oh, I know why you make this big commitment. Moving from France from a stable job to a position of stability to a position of challenge or creating magic. I think they will be touched.
- [36:46]
Fatou Zenga
Thank you so much. Thank you. You take care and talk to you soon.
- [36:52]
Vince Chan
Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us top rated reviews. Check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm this Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.
- [37:23]
Trevor Sikoma
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Vince Chan
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Eduardo
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Trevor Sikoma
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- [38:14]
Eduardo
And clean my bad Stretch Feeling pine so fresh.
- [38:19]
Fatou Zenga
The GLAAD girl group coming at you with that throwback jam that was Glad.
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Eduardo
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- [38:27]
Fatou Zenga
And that's better than all good.
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Trevor Sikoma
It's all glad.
- [38:31]
Eduardo
Imagine what's possible when learning doesn't get in the way of life At Capella University. Our game changing flexpath learning format lets you set your own deadline so you can learn at a time and pace that works for you. It's an education you can tailor to your schedule. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to pursue your professional goals. Instead, enjoy learning your way and earn your degree without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Edu.
- [39:03]
Trevor Sikoma
Hey everybody, I'm Trevor Sikoma, host of the PFF NFL show, here to tell you what you can find on all of our shows throughout the week. On Mondays we have the Grade Release show where myself and Dalton Washman break down every single game that you just.
- [39:14]
Fatou Zenga
Saw in the NFL.
- [39:16]
Trevor Sikoma
On Tuesdays we have the Quarterback Breakdown with Seth Galina. On Wednesdays we've got the Rookie Review with John Ledyard and the preview for.
- [39:23]
Fatou Zenga
The upcoming week in the NFL.
- [39:24]
Trevor Sikoma
So make sure you are subscribed to the PFF NFL show wherever you get your podcasts.