Podcast Summary: Chief Change Officer – Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

Episode Details:

• Title: Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation
• Host: Viz Chen
• Release Date: December 5, 2024

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this insightful episode of Chief Change Officer, host Viz Chen engages in a deep conversation with Wayne Turmel, a renowned expert in long distance leadership and communication. The discussion delves into the complexities of leading teams in a hybrid and remote work environment, especially in light of recent corporate shifts such as Amazon's announcement to revert to a full-time office model by 2025.

2. Wayne Turmel’s Background and Expertise

[04:37 – 07:24]

Viz Chen begins by exploring Wayne Turmel’s extensive background. Wayne shares his journey from studying journalism and performing on stage in Canada to becoming a leading authority on remote leadership. His transition from traditional presentation skills to focusing on electronic communication tools like WebEx and later Microsoft Teams has equipped him with over two decades of experience in navigating and teaching long distance leadership.

Wayne Turmel [04:59]:
"The number one factor in how you're perceived as an executive, as an employee is your ability to communicate."

His collaboration with Kevin Eikenberry, which led to the publication of multiple books, underscores their combined expertise in leadership and remote work dynamics.

3. Defining Long Distance Leadership

[07:24 – 09:32]

Wayne defines long distance leadership as the application of proven leadership principles in scenarios where leaders and team members are not co-located. He emphasizes that leadership fundamentals—such as hiring, training, delegating, and coaching—remain unchanged but require adaptation when mediated by technology.

Wayne Turmel [07:32]:
"Long distance leadership is taking what we know makes good leaders and always has, and applying it when you are not always or sometimes ever in the same physical space as the people that you lead."

He draws historical parallels, citing figures like Genghis Khan and Julius Caesar, to illustrate that managing from a distance is not a new challenge but one that has evolved with technological advancements.

4. Evolution and Impact of Remote/Hybrid Work

[09:32 – 15:15]

The conversation shifts to how remote and hybrid work models have transformed leadership and team management. Wayne asserts the importance of intentionality in maintaining effective communication and relationships within teams.

Wayne Turmel [09:57]:
"If you think of what you need to do as a leader, you'll find a way to make it work."

He highlights that without strong leadership behaviors, remote work can exacerbate issues like missed feedback and weakened team cohesion. The rise of hybrid work introduces challenges such as proximity bias, where in-office employees might receive more attention and opportunities than their remote counterparts, inadvertently fostering inequality and resentment.

Wayne points out that many organizations have treated hybrid work as a compromise rather than a strategic approach, leading to inefficiencies and dissatisfaction on both ends.

5. Challenges in Hybrid Work Models

[09:57 – 15:15]

Wayne critiques the prevailing approach to hybrid work, describing it as "a hostage negotiation" rather than a well-thought-out strategy. He shares insights from his second edition of his book, which builds upon the first edition released in 2018 by incorporating updated technological contexts and the widespread adoption of remote work due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Wayne Turmel [15:26]:
"Hybrid work in its most effective form... includes the concept of time. What work gets done where and when."

He emphasizes that effective hybrid strategies require clarity on not just the location but also the timing and nature of tasks. For instance, collaborative meetings can be scheduled during overlapping hours, while deep, focused work can be done asynchronously, accommodating different time zones and personal schedules.

6. Applying Leadership Models to Corporate Transitions: The Amazon Example

[21:51 – 29:02]

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Amazon's decision to mandate a return to a five-day office workweek by 2025. This decision has sparked controversy, with many employees threatening to quit and public sentiment largely negative.

Viz Chen asks Wayne how his leadership models could assist Amazon in this transition. Wayne responds by integrating his long distance leadership principles, focusing on enhancing leadership mindsets rather than merely enforcing physical presence.

Wayne Turmel [24:31]:
"We know that people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."

He suggests that Amazon should prioritize effective communication, fair coaching, and mentorship to reduce turnover. By improving leadership practices, Amazon can mitigate the negative impacts of such a policy shift. Wayne also addresses the unique challenges Amazon faces, given its predominantly in-person operational model, and stresses the importance of adaptable leadership to manage dispersed teams effectively.

7. Geographical Differences in Remote Work

[29:02 – 35:32]

Wayne expands the conversation to highlight how remote work dynamics differ across regions. He contrasts the United States, where remote work is often a choice influenced by home environment and personal preferences, with places like Hong Kong, where remote work is less common due to densely populated living conditions that favor office-based work.

Wayne Turmel [30:50]:
"People in Tokyo, what's a spare room? And it gets back to Amazon..."

He underscores that cultural and infrastructural differences play a significant role in shaping the feasibility and acceptance of remote work, necessitating tailored leadership approaches in different geographical contexts.

8. Future of Work and Leadership Strategies

[35:32 – 37:59]

Wayne reflects on the uncertain future of work, acknowledging the ongoing shifts and the likely permanence of hybrid models. He predicts that as organizations navigate these changes, the emphasis will increasingly be on cultivating resilient and flexible leadership that can adapt to varying work environments.

He also touches upon the importance of technological advancements in facilitating effective remote communication and leadership, although he emphasizes that technology is a tool rather than the solution itself.

9. Conclusion

[37:59 – End]

The episode wraps up with Viz Chen thanking Wayne Turmel for his valuable insights. The discussion reinforces the notion that hybrid work requires a strategic, intentional approach to leadership that transcends mere physical presence. By prioritizing effective communication, equitable treatment, and adaptable leadership practices, organizations can harness the benefits of hybrid work while mitigating its challenges.

Notable Quotes

• Wayne Turmel [07:32]:
  "Long distance leadership is taking what we know makes good leaders and always has, and applying it when you are not always or sometimes ever in the same physical space as the people that you lead."

• Wayne Turmel [09:57]:
  "If you think of what you need to do as a leader, you'll find a way to make it work."

• Wayne Turmel [15:26]:
  "Hybrid work in its most effective form... includes the concept of time. What work gets done where and when."

• Wayne Turmel [24:31]:
  "We know that people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."

• Wayne Turmel [30:50]:
  "People in Tokyo, what's a spare room? And it gets back to Amazon..."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Chief Change Officer offers a comprehensive exploration of the evolving landscape of leadership in the hybrid work era. Wayne Turmel’s expertise provides listeners with actionable strategies to enhance their leadership effectiveness, ensuring that organizations can thrive amidst the challenges and opportunities presented by remote and hybrid work models.

For those navigating the complexities of leading dispersed teams, this episode serves as a valuable resource, emphasizing the critical role of intentional, adaptable leadership in fostering engaged and productive work environments.

Connect with Chief Change Officer:

• LinkedIn: @chiefchangeofficer
• Platforms: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube

This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights from the podcast episode.