Ginger (4:36)

I love that your answer was yeah, I was connected to the other cool guy at the FI event.

Ron Babcock (4:44)

I met a lot of really interesting cool people at that event. I'm very glad that I went. It's just nice to see people who are further along down the road. It feels, I don't know because I'm kind of in the. It's not like the I'm in the rinse, lather, repeat phase. It's like, yeah, I got it, I. I understand how to get started. I got everything automated and now I'm just kind of going through it. And to be honest, I'm at the point where I don't really think about it too much because I don't know, I like what I do for a living. For me it's just kind of all about just that sense of security and knowing that whatever life throws at me for the most part I think we'll be okay. And so that gives me a lot of peace. And I sleep well at night.

Ginger (5:25)

Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about. You said it was nice to be around other people who are doing this and I assume that you mean doing this is taking a lot of steps towards financial independence. Is that what you mean?

Ron Babcock (5:39)

Yeah. Or just really thinking about it and thinking about that long term thinking that I think not a lot of people do. And having that be like people do financial independence I find tend to their default happens to be long term thinking. And I don't think that that's the normal thing in society today. I think it's more short term thinking. So just to be around people who's kind of metrics or the way they look at life is through a long term lens and have that be the default and that be the basis of which they make decisions upon. That was nice to be around where I didn't have to justify anything. Of course people would be like, you would be planning for this, that and that that's very like, you know, efficient. I mean, I don't know how it's not a room full of engineers. It's a very like engineer type vibe of people who just want to optimize everything. And that's who I am. I'm like a systems guy and I, I try to have things very optimized and that's who I am in the relationship with my wife. I'm the one who kind of sets things up and tries to make it easy so we don't have to worry about it again. So it was cool to be around people like that.

Ginger (6:38)

Well, I hear what you're saying about this isn't really the status quo. And most people don't build their whole lives around long term thinking. So how did you kind of come to this?

Ron Babcock (6:50)

I was working on a Muppet Babies. It's a show for Disney. And sometimes in TV you kind of get to a point where there's just nothing to do in between seasons. It's like you show up late, you take a long lunch, and you leave early and you feel weird. And people are just like, just enjoy it while it lasts because it'll last for two weeks. And then it's just craziness again. And I was talking to one of the board artists and I can't even remember her name. I think it was Elise. I don't know. But she was just like, somehow money came up and she's like, oh, yeah, I'm really into Mr. Money Mustache. And I was like, oh, yeah, tight. And I had no idea who that was. And so I just googled it because I was just like, that's a weird name. And I came across the 4% article and I read it and I was like, huh? And I was about to close out of the website, and then for some reason I was like, I feel like I should bookmark this. And then I had nothing to do. So I was like, well, I'm just going to start reading this website from the top. I thought. I was like, no one had ever done that before. And I realized that's like the most basic thing. So I started doing that. And because I had finally got to the first time in my life where I had extra money, like, I started this job where I work as an editor in animation and I also do standup comedy. And for many years I would just try and do standup. And stand up is a lot of fun, but my God, it is very difficult to earn a living at. And I think I got to a point where I was like, you know, about. I was definitely like, a lot in debt. Like, pursuing your dreams comes with a price, and it's credit card debt that people want you to pay back. And this whole time I would be good at editing. I would edit the little dumb comedy sketch videos my friends and I made. And I was known in the scene as like, oh, yeah, that guy knows how to edit. And so people would hit me up for jobs and usually I'd be like, no, no, no, I'm trying to do standup. And finally Muppet Babies fell in my lap. And it was like, all the reasons I would use to turn down jobs. It was close to my house, the rate was fair. Preschool is a lovely place to work because just the vibe is so, I don't know, positive and nice. Everything about it. I met the coworkers. I was like, oh, these people are awesome. And so, like, Muppet Babies was my favorite show when I was a kid. So I was like, I have to work on this show. So I worked on it. I paid off all my debt and I was saving and I had all this extra money, and it was the first time I ever had extra money in my entire life. I was like, money where I don't know what to do with this money. And so I was just saving it in my normal bank account, just cracking the ceiling with my 0.01% interest. And so I'm like, what do I do with this? And so, you know that board artist mentioned Mr. Money Mustache now, I was like, oh, I could do this with this. Like, I could invest this. And so that's kind of like how I got into it. And I went through all the podcasts. I did like, you know, I was doing like, Paula Plant for a while, and I listened to like, the Minimalists, which is kind of like, it's about. It's adjacent, you know. And then I kind of like, I got what they were saying. I was like, okay, good. Then I kind of found choose if I. And that's like the one that I've actually. That's the only one I listen to. Just because I really enjoy the vibe of the podcast. I love that it's never about Brad. It's always about the idea. I'm a big fan of that. I love that it's just about the thing. And so I've kind of just been taking things I've learned and just slowly instituting them over time and just trying to make it a little bit better and a little bit easier. So it's been a slow. I kind of found out about this in 2018, and I feel like I was really good with it in the beginning because I was, like, on my own and my wife was then my girlfriend, and we had split finances and I was putting away so much. I was so proud of myself. I was one of those people who was doing those gnarly amounts, throwing them in, and now we're married, we have a child. I'm so glad that I was so hardcore about it in the beginning because it helps with time. But now I feel bad I'm not doing enough now. But for a single income family, so it's. We still got to live. So that's the thing I'm struggling with now.

Ginger (10:44)

What's the end goal here?

Ron Babcock (10:46)

I don't know. I mean, I really like what I do for a living. I love it. I just wish I didn't have to do it all the darn time, you know, I just feel like so much time is spent editing and it's like I wish I could do this for like 25 hours a week. And I don't know if there's would be part time opportunities available. Maybe I could pitch that. Part of me feels like it might be a thing where my wife's in grad school now and I could see a switching in a few years because the state of the industry is kind of not great. There's a lot of turbulence right now and there's AI coming in and studios aren't spending as much money as they used to because nobody watches TV anymore. I mean, come on, how many people watch tv? Most people watch TikTok. So you're not even going against other streamers. You're going against a billion people making stuff for free in their bedroom. So the industry's in flux, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And so there might be a scenario where maybe we switch and I stay at home with the kids, hopefully, and my wife goes back to work, which I would be. Ginger. I would love to be a house husband. The dream, oh my gosh, I would kill. I would just murder being a house husband. I love to cook, I love to clean. This could be my world and I would be totally happy doing that.

Ginger (12:01)

You love to be around screaming children. It's your thing.

Ron Babcock (12:04)

I could take them. I mean, it's one of those things that it is hard though, if I have to do child duty for a couple days, my wife's sick or something, I'm like, oh, God, this does get hard. And there's just one of them. So what happens if there's two? Yeah, but ideally the end game is ultimately just to have choices. Yeah, I would love to not say the industry changes so much where it stops being fun. I would love the option to not have to like, well, you still got to work, you still got to earn a living.

Ginger (12:35)

Yeah, I hear you. On thinking about, hey, my job might not be around or it might not be around in the same way. And I want to be able to have options when that happens. I think that's a huge thing, a big reason that people do this kind of thing. And then I think there's this other thing that we don't think about, I certainly don't think about. But the research says that we should, which is that we're going to be different people in five years or in 10 years. And I think, gosh, you're saying, I love it so much now. Do you ever think maybe I won't love it?

Ron Babcock (13:06)

Yeah, I mean, sure. It all depends on the show you're on. Most of the shows I've been on, I've been pretty grateful. Where the showrunner's been cool and awesome. I did a show called Clone High, and the showrunner was great. I had our first child happen on that show. And they were so unbelievably kind and understanding, and they're like, do things family first. And not all shows are like that. And so that was great. But if I was in a different place where they were just, I don't know, toxic or abusive or something like that, that's kind of one of the reasons why I like working in animation. Live action is like. It's a lot more ego in live action, where animation takes forever. So you're with people forever. So I don't think you can get away with bad behavior as much because you got to be around these people for, like, you know, you're not around for, like, three, four months. You're around them for, like, a year and a half. It takes, like, it took a year to make an episode of Muppet Babies. Like, from script to finished product, it takes a long time. So you gotta work with these people, man. You can't be, you know, mean. So anyway, that's why I like animation. And I also just love animation. But, yeah, it's. I don't know, it's. I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry.

Ginger (14:15)

Oh, I was just saying, well, what if you. Do you ever think about, like, maybe I won't be interested in doing it anymore? Maybe.

Ron Babcock (14:20)

I mean, I think that is. It's weird. I know what you mean. Like, that research that says you're going to change. Because I look back at myself, who I was in my 20s, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so different. And then I look at myself in, like, 10 years, I'm like, I'm going to be exactly the same. I'm like, what? Although I would say that I think that the changes that I would make from, say, 40 to 50 are going to be less than the changes I made from 20 to 30 just because of how much an idiot you are when you're 20. I don't want to speak for you, but for me, like huge goomba, it's just, oh my gosh, I look back and cringe. But yeah, I mean, there's a world where I don't. I guess at the end of the day the takeaway is I just want options and security. And that's for me is like the security of it all knowing that we would be okay. And it's actually already come in handy. So I was unemployed for 10 months last year. So the writer strike hit and I don't know if maybe you heard about that or people heard about that and it was funny. I talked to my friends back in Ohio and they're like, is that a big deal out there? And I'm like, yeah, it's all literally anyone talks about. And after the writers strike, the actors sag aftra they went on strike. And then there was a whole thing that I otsi, which is the union that I fall under, that's what the editors fall under, was going to go on strike anyway. I was off for 10 months. And we're a single income family, so that's like a long time to go. And yeah, I had my emergency savings and I burned through that. Like 10 months is like they say plan for three or six. Anyway, 10. So our costs went lower because I was obviously just at home. So I would spend a lot of time cooking. And to be honest, I loved it. I framed it as this is my mini financial independence break. And I had the best time. I just hung out with my son all the time. Went to the beach, went to the museum, we just kind of rode bikes. If it wasn't for income, I could just keep doing this and be totally happy. It was just great. But you needed a job. And so there was a point where I had to cash out a little bit from my investments just to keep the train going. And yeah, it was the first time I ever made a withdrawal. And there was part of me that was kind of bummed and be like, I can't believe I'm cashing out. That's the one thing they say, don't cash out. I was beating myself up a little bit about it. But then I was thinking, if this wasn't there, what would we have done? I would have had to go to family and just been like, hey, times are tough. I'm not sure when they're going to get better. And it felt so great to be able to handle my business and keep my family safe and happy. And it wasn't like anything and it wasn't a huge amount, and it's already replaced itself. The market's been doing great. It was like, yes, of course there's an opportunity cost there. But at the end of the day, I was like, why am I saving up and working so hard and investing if it isn't for moments like these where money can't solve all your problems, but it can solve a lot of them?

Ginger (17:13)

Yeah, it can.

Ron Babcock (17:14)

Way more than I give it credit for. So that felt really good. And that kind of really, I think, also helped my wife kind of also understand, like, oh, wow, that was really good that you've been doing all this stuff and been so focused on it.

Ginger (17:29)

Yeah. Tell me about your wife's investment in this plan, or how you said, oh, I was a lot better before I got married.

Ron Babcock (17:37)

My wife is a very patient woman. I think it's so common in five where there's always one person who's gung ho and the other person who's like, what? What are you doing? We still haven't kind of sat down to have our money check ins. She fights it. She's like, it's fine. But she's very good, she's very patient, and I try and clue her in on some of the stuff. And that's kind of a resolution for the New Year's to be a little more on top of that. I think, in a way, she helps pump the brakes on me being too intense about it, because that was some of the common things from people who've done this, is that they look back and their regret is that they were too hardcore about it. They wish they loosened it up a little bit. They get to the number, then all of a sudden they realize, okay, I'm here. And so she's good about kind of forcing me to enjoy life a little bit. So, yeah, I'm not as perfectly optimized as we could be. But I'm also kind of fine about that because I'm like, we're in a good place. I just got to enjoy this. I've gotten way better about that. Of just kind of enjoying the ride and realizing, listen, the transfer of wealth from the boomers to the other generations, it's going to be the biggest transfer of wealth in human history. We're all going to be fine. Our parents and grandparents have worked hard so that their children didn't have to work as hard. And us doing fi. I feel like we will be stewards of all that hard work and not frivolously spend it, but use it wisely. So I just kind of was long term thinking like, oh, we're going to be okay. It's fine to go out for a $40 dinner. Just calm down and have some chicken with your wife without a child screaming and just enjoy it.

Ginger (19:22)

Yeah, it sounds like you reached Phi Enlightenment. And yet I hear that all the time too. I guess because we probably listen to the same podcast, but where it's like, oh, I really wish that I hadn't been so hardcore about it. And I find myself a little annoyed because I'm like, this seems easy for you to say at this moment, you know, would you really take back and be working right now instead? You know, and it's sort of like all the articles you see about, well, on their deathbed, people really wished that they had taken more risks. Of course they do. Because when you're thinking about those big risks that you could have taken, you're not feeling the weight of the fact that they are risks and could go terribly and might have gone terribly. So it's sort of like even though I see the wisdom in both of those things, I'm always like, hmm, Well.

Ron Babcock (20:13)

I mean, it is like it's a little bit like we're talking out of both sides of our mouth. You know, it's easy to say it after you've done it because you're right, you're not feeling the immediate pressure and risk in the moment. I've been trying to just focus more on just enjoying my everyday. I was reading that. I think I found out about it through the email newsletter. But that Gap in the gain book, oh my God, listen, I love all this stuff. I can read self help books all day, Give it to me. And usually I read them and I'm like, this is great. And then I institute the principles for four days and I forget about it. But the gap in the gain, that one hit me hard. It just for me as somebody who like, I mean, God, do stand up comedy, like all my life is regret. A lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda's when I should have turned right, when I clearly turned left, you know that like I used to make comedy videos and a buddy told me was like, hey, you should put these on this new website called YouTube. And I would make comedy videos. We would show them in bars, they would be packed, it would be sold out, people would come to watch our stuff. And I said, oh, online video will never catch on. So I have made horrifically bad decisions. So I don't know where I was going. But I think the point is I'M just trying to. I don't know, that gap in the gain made me kind of. They had this one little bit of it was from some other guy where he said, don't say I'll be successful when. Instead of I'll be successful when I have a million dollars, whatever. It'll be like, say, I am successful when I am. And I was like, I kind of wrote a bunch and I was like, when I'm playing outside with my son. And now when we go outside and play, I'm just like, oh, I'm successful right now. This is it.

Ginger (21:50)

Yeah.

Ron Babcock (21:51)

And it's really helped me kind of reframe a lot of stuff. This is all fresh. But it was over four days ago. I listened to that book weeks ago and it's all still sinking in. So it's had a lot of impact on me.

Ginger (22:01)

Yeah. How old are you?

Ron Babcock (22:04)

I am 45 years young.

Ginger (22:06)

Okay. We are all 45. What?

Ron Babcock (22:08)

Really?

Ginger (22:09)

Yeah. That's another thing I want to talk about.

Ron Babcock (22:11)

But anyway, I work with kids who are so young and it's crazy. They're all like, I don't know, what were they talking about? K Pop and Pokemon. And I'm just like, I have no idea what's going on. I'm just trying to hang. But yeah, no, 45. Don't feel. I feel very. I don't know if it's something in the water in California, but I feel very, like, I don't know, I feel good. I don't feel like, like I look at my friends from college, I'm like, we all look the same, right? People like, no, Ron, we don't. And like, I think we do. I think we look good.

Ginger (22:41)

Yeah. So you said that thing about like, oh, I don't think the change is going to be as big from 40 to 50 because I'm not undergoing this transformation from like idiot to grown up.

Ron Babcock (22:52)

Yes.

Ginger (22:52)

But yet at this age there's all this stuff around. Like you said, oh, I feel young still. I feel so alive still. And that's the thing that I feel like, oh, I have to hold on to that because I'm not always going to feel that way and I'm not always going to be in a position to make big moves. Which is why I've been thinking about the risk thing so much.

Ron Babcock (23:13)

Yeah, definitely. There was a moment. One thing my wife and I wanted to do after we got married was we wanted to rent a van and go on like a three month tour of national parks and have that be our honeymoon. And then I don't know if you heard about this thing. It was called a pandemic that hit. And that really threw a wrench into that idea. And it was just kind of like realizing, okay, now we're having children now, or trying to have a family. I guess I can actually, to be honest, the difference of me 40 and 50 is actually probably going to be pretty huge because one was pre children and then one is after having children. But I was thinking, when am I going to be able to do that? I know there's the families, that van life it. And they have their kids there.

Ginger (23:53)

Come on.

Ron Babcock (23:53)

I just like, okay. But I'm like, I want to do this at some point. I was telling her yesterday, I was like, we should at some point rent a van. Maybe we could do a small, truncated version of it with kids and people do it and we'll figure it out. She was like, yeah. She's like, that'd be fun. But I realized, like, oh, man. I'm like, are all my adventures done? And I refuse to believe that they are. But I will admit that the adventures might have to be modified or tweaked a little bit because I have other responsibilities now.

Ginger (24:22)

Yeah. And even those tweaked adventures, they need to happen in the next decade.

Ron Babcock (24:30)

I mean, honestly, I've been trying to be better about fitness. And actually, I learned a lot from Brad because I saw him at the Choose Fi event in Vegas, and the dude was so ripped that I asked him. I was like, how much do you bench? Like, and I'm not. I go to those guys. But, like, his arms were, like, the size of my thighs. It was insane. And I'm like, do you just crossfit? Like, is there anything else you do? And he was telling me he does this training by Dean Turner, who I kind of got into to try and get fit. Because when I was, like, in my 20s, I was on a plane and I saw these, like, I don't know, they had to be, like, 80s, easy. But they were like this elderly couple, and they were like, head to toe and like REI and Patagonia, like, they were, like, ready to hike Machu Picchu. And they were just slender and fit and just look so full of vigor. And I was like, I want that. Like, that's how I want to be when I'm that age. So I've been trying to be better about health and just, like, making it a priority. And, you know, I'll be honest, it's been. I don't know, I go on a tear for Like, a month or two. And then I fall off of it because work gets busy or one of us gets sick, and then the other one gets sick, you know? So I'm in the mode of trying to get back into it now, but that. I do think that you can have those adventures beyond your 50s and 60s. But it's like, we got to put the time in now to make sure we're still mobile.

Ginger (25:52)

Oh, yeah. And just to everyone out there, I certainly didn't mean that when you're 55, like, it's all over. Pack it in.

Ron Babcock (25:59)

It's like, pack it in. You're done.

Ginger (26:01)

You're done. But it is a different kind of willingness maybe to do something like sleep in a van.

Ron Babcock (26:09)

Yeah. I mean, I'm from Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. I grew up in Northeast Pennsylvania. And it's crazy how you go back home and everyone just talks about their knees.

Ginger (26:20)

Yes.

Ron Babcock (26:21)

You ask people what they're doing, they're like, wow, my knee and my back. They just talk about a part of their body that's not going according to plan. And that's the conversation. That. And the weather and the GD government or stuff like that. But it's mostly about knees. And I was like, I just don't want to have conversations about my knees ever. So I'm trying to. I'm doing knee exercises now. I'm like, I had an ACL injury in college, so I'm working on it. But, man, oh, man, it's wild.

Ginger (26:49)

I had this conversation with my husband not two weeks ago where I was like, I think it's time, man. We need to make a pact to never talk about how our bodies are falling apart. Because I'm so afraid of. Yes. That. That's the main topic of conversation.

Ron Babcock (27:04)

I just. I gotta. I gotta stretch more. I used to be in the stretching because my. Like, my wife once tried to stretch my leg. She was like, it's like your stomach is made of, like, concrete. Like, it's so stiff. She's like, how do you walk around? Like, it was. I don't know. I would know. I was like, oh, God, this is bad. And so I started, like, stretching and, like, doing yoga online. And just like, I'm just that guy. And like, the pandemic. I was just that guy in my living room trying to do, like, yoga. And, like, the mailman would come up and see me doing it. I'm like, hey, what's up, Kevin? And it's just so weird. And I was bad at it, but I did feel a lot better. And Slightly more bendy than I was. And now I'm back. I've, like, solidified back to, like, my concrete form where I need to, like, start stretching out again. Honestly, it's like, to me, phi is like, if I reach five, I'm gonna have so much more time to stretch.

Ginger (27:56)

It's the oldest thing I've ever heard anyone say.

Ron Babcock (27:59)

I've embraced that part of me, though. I've always been old. I was like, 20 for three weeks and then I turned 55. I've always had an old soul mentality. And right now I'm just like, you know what? I'm gonna stop caring about what the people I don't love think about me. And I'm going to embrace this. I was always that guy. That's why I, like, the FI stuff is like, I could talk about Roth IRAs, and it's not, like, weird, but there's still so much stuff that I need to learn. That's the thing. Even though I feel like I have everything set on a pretty simple, boring kind of pathway, I still don't fully understand the Roth backdoor thing, even though I've heard people talk about it literally a thousand times. I'm like, wait, what's going on? So I need to figure that out. Because sometimes we talk about. We have this base knowledge, and sometimes I haven't covered those bases. So I'm a big fan of when people use acronyms and they spell it out the first time before they use it again. Because for a lot of people who do this for their life, sometimes or I just forget. I feel like since we had children, I feel like I've definitely gotten dumber. And there's just things I don't know. I forget. If I've met you more than five years ago, I'm going to forget your name. And I'm so sorry.

Ginger (29:06)

So many people told me my brain would come back, and I was like, I don't think so, man. I think it's over. But it really has started to come back. So I want to.

Ron Babcock (29:16)

I feel slower. Like, I mean, I do stand up still, you know, and it's fun, but I don't do it. Like, I'm trying to make a living at it. Like, and when you're trying to make a living at stand up, you're grinding, you know, you're going up at least. Like, I don't know. I was. Went up around eight to ten times a week. And, you know, you're trying to post stuff online and you're messaging club requests and you know, you're just trying to. You're going to the right parties and, like. And you're just so sharp and on, like, in conversation. You're just so quick and rapid fire. And I don't do any of that anymore. Now I go up once or twice a month. I have a beer. It's fun. Sometimes I get booked for random shows and get paid. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And I'm definitely not as quick as I used to be. And I know part of that is I'm not like, if you don't play basketball all the time, you're not going to be as good at basketball. But other part of that is just having a child and just, I don't know, not enough sleep. My senses are dulled. And I'm definitely not as quick as I used to be because I used to be able to think of jokes. I know there'll be a part of the conversation where I know this is where the joke is supposed to go. And I'm like, I got nothing. I used to have something there always ready to go. And I'm like, oh, man. So it's nice to hear that that's going to come back. I'm actually very excited about that.

Ginger (30:27)

Yeah. I was really worried that I had a brain tumor for a while.

Ron Babcock (30:31)

Whoa.

Ginger (30:32)

Because I would forget things that normally I would never forget, like people's birthdays, who I was really close to, and I would. It was just like, nuts. The kind of things that I was forgetting, I just, like, could not hold on to information.

Ron Babcock (30:45)

But you didn't have a brain tumor.

Ginger (30:46)

Well, that's the thing. So everyone's like, oh, it's okay, because your brain will start working again once your child gets older.

Ron Babcock (30:51)

I'm like, what an advertisement for childbearing. Right. Like, you might think you have a brain tumor, but, hey, you probably don't.

Ginger (30:58)

Yeah, exactly. I always just thought, no, I'm going to be the one person who, like, I do have a brain tumor. And then no one listened to me.

Ron Babcock (31:07)

And then you get to have that sweet righteousness of like, ah, you should have listened to Ginger. Now you'll always feel bad.

Ginger (31:16)

Yeah, because now I'm dead anyway. Your child.

Ron Babcock (31:19)

I'm glad I reached five.

Ginger (31:22)

Your child, brain tumor will go away. I want to go back to all the things we don't know. Let's just be a little. Instead of sharing knowledge. On this podcast, you said the Backdoor Roth, and that's something, too, that I feel like I kind of check out a little bit when people are talking about it because it doesn't really apply to me.

Ron Babcock (31:44)

I don't think it applies to me either.

Ginger (31:47)

I think you have to have a lot of money.

Ron Babcock (31:49)

Yeah. And I'm not quite there yet, but I can't wait till it does apply to me. One of the things is I love when I find out things I don't know about, things I don't know, you know, where all of a sudden something comes in. It was like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to know about that. And I feel like I've been good. The thing I'm proud about is I'm very good about tracking our expenses. I got everything dialed in, and I'm really proud about that. That I could go back years and be like, this is what I spent in July of 2021 or whatever, and this is what we spent on. And so that in and of itself has. I feel like that was like the big first step for me because I always thought I was a really frugal person. I was like, I don't. I don't spend that much money on eating out. And then I tracked my expenses and I was like, oh, my God, I'm a monster. This is insane. I was like, I can't believe what. And so it was very illuminating to see what I actually spent my money on. And then I started to make changes. And right now I feel like we're pretty. We live in a high cost of living area. I'm in the LA area. I love where we live. I wouldn't trade it. It's just a nice place to live. I love the weather. I love the people, the vibe. It's kind of where I work and we have family close by here, so it's nice. But it's definitely a high cost of living area. So I don't know what they say, 25% should go to your housing. Ours is definitely 40, 45%. And we live in a lovely neighborhood. It's awesome. But part of the reason why it's such a big chunk is because the rest of our life is actually pretty lean and mean. We've been pretty good about identifying areas where we can kind of cut back on.

Ginger (33:23)

Okay. I love that we're essentially. We're talking about budgeting now, right?

Ron Babcock (33:28)

Yeah.

Ginger (33:28)

And it's funny you say this, because I was just thinking, okay, this is one of my 2025 goals, because I feel like I'm a person who's good with money. I'm obsessed with personal finance in a lot of ways. But I think I'm also one of those people who, like, there's more money if I could just find it in my budget. Like, I don't know, I'm just spending too much on Amazon or something. So I think, think I'm going to get really serious and do the thing where I write down every single thing that I spend for a month or two.

Ron Babcock (33:57)

Oh, yeah. I think it's like Ginger, at least for me, that was the thing that made me. I track everything. And at the end of the year, sometimes I'll go to my wife and I'm like, hey, I'm just going to search for this. Last year, I'm just going to type in one word and it's Target and see what we bought at Target. And then she says, they're essentials. And I'm like, tell me everything you bought is essential. Like, we would not still be here if you didn't buy one. And it's truly illuminating how much we have given to the kingdom of Target and the kingdom of Amazon. I don't know. For me, that was maybe kind of adjust some behaviors. Like now I do this thing. Now this has worked for me. Whenever I buy something on Amazon, I only buy it on a Sunday so that I actually just put it in my cart and then I let it sit there until Sunday and then I buy it. But sometimes I will, like, be like, I don't need that. And I'll take that back out of my cart so I'm not like, scratching that itch immediately. I've fallen off that around the holidays. But generally, like, I'm pretty good about that. And I find that, like, that has reduced my Amazon purchases big time.

Ginger (35:03)

These are the tips we need.

Ron Babcock (35:05)

So I love ginger. I love tips. I love. Like, there's part of me that kind of gets, like, a little tired of talking about, like, the why behind things and people's like, emotional journey of what. I'm like, okay, I get it. Like, we all have our own way. But, like, tell me how to do the thing. Give me the tip. Because I'm like, I'll get the whole emotional thing. I'll figure that out on my own. Just tell me the thing you did. So for Brad, I was like, how did you get your arms to look like meat cannons? And he's like, oh, I got this guy, Dean Turner, and I just do what he says and I go, okay. And then I gave Dean Turner $100 and he gave me a workout program. And now I'm doing the thing so I could Get Brad Baer at arms. You know, that's my 2025 resolution. Give me some brat arms.

Ginger (35:50)

So tell us the things I want to know, and just think about how you're just giving me specific advice. I'm going to do these things. Do you have a specific program that you use to track? How do you do it? Let's start there.

Ron Babcock (36:03)

Oh, my gosh. I can't believe Brad has not already talked to you about this. First of all, he knows what he's doing, but it's like this guy, he just says, use gym machines instead of weights because they kind of control your movements. Slow down.

Ginger (36:15)

I'm not talking about the workouts. I'm talking about workout stuff.

Ron Babcock (36:21)

I was a little bit like, oh, whoa, Ginger. Okay, yeah, we can talk about workout stuff. I mean, you're looking at me thinking like, I want to look like that, right? So. Okay. I honestly thought you were talking about workout stuff.

Ginger (36:33)

Well, it's fair for you to think that I'm very. I'm deep into the weightlifting stuff as well.

Ron Babcock (36:38)

You're asking about financial independence. You mean the topic of this actual podcast? Yeah, that makes more sense. Yeah. Yeah, that was so funny. For me, tracking expenses was the first and foremost the thing.

Ginger (36:50)

But what is the thing? Are you.

Ron Babcock (36:51)

I use personal capital.

Ginger (36:53)

That's it?

Ron Babcock (36:54)

Yeah, it used to be called. Or no, I'm sorry, it's called Empower now. And I use personal capital and always get a friend. The meanest thing you can do in the FI community is to use someone's recommendation and then not use their referral code. That is, like, really crossing a line. So, like, you know, get someone's referral code. I'll send you mine. And then if you sign up, we both get 20 bucks. You connect all your different accounts, you know, your. Your whatever, Wells Fargo or your credit, bank of America credit cards, whatever, all that stuff. It's a pain in the butt. It doesn't work perfectly. It's going to take you a minute, and then track your expenses for like, a month or two. Don't judge yourself. Just kind of like, log in every Sunday morning and just kind of like. It's like a dumb robot, but once you point it in the right direction, it remembers. So there's this one coffee shop I go to, and it thinks it's Internet. I'm like, it's not Internet. It's coffee, you dumb robot. But once you point it in the right direction, the dumb robot remembers. So there's a little bit of hand holding you have to do in the beginning. And then after two months, look at what you spent on and kind of the parts where you get a little cringy ball in your stomach. You're like, okay, that's way too much money to spend on Amazon. I need to dial it back there. And then you could make decisions. But I'm a big believer in, you can't make decisions unless you have good data. And so if you don't have good data, you got to know how much is coming in and how much is going out.

Ginger (38:15)

I'm going to talk about this a little bit more because I think people are in the position I'm in where I have an Empower account. I check it constantly because I'm really interested in seeing what the market is doing in a way that I know we're not supposed to, but I do it anyway.

Ron Babcock (38:31)

But I do, too.

Ginger (38:31)

I'm not looking at it in terms of, like, my specific purchases that are being put into a category, but that's what you're saying.

Ron Babcock (38:40)

Like, I tend to. Not to get too, I guess, intimate. But I tend to, like, when I go to the bathroom, listen, I sit down when I pee because I'm getting stuff done. So that's when I turn that time into, like, let's go into Empower. Like, that's when I budget my transactions. So this man does not stand when he pees, okay? Because I'm too busy making moves. I asked for specifics, so that's what I do. I mean, I think the feeling of that is probably motivated maybe, because it's like, you don't necessarily want to know, because once you know, then you might be like, oh, now I got to change my behavior. But I found it very interesting. I tried to look at it, like, remove myself from it and look at myself as a little business and be like, okay, how is this guy running his business, AKA his life? So that's how I kind of mentally looked at it and was like, okay, this is where I'm doing very well. This is great. You're saving a good amount. Good for you. And this is where you're doing a little crazy. But then also, I typed in the word coffee to see how much we spent on coffee the year our son was born. And it was insane, because every morning I would take our son out of the house because my wife. So she could sleep in a little bit, and we had a small place, so I got him out, and I would walk with him in a stroller, and we would get coffee. And I wouldn't trade that for Anything. I absolutely loved that time. I don't care how much it cost at that time. It was something that I kind of valued and I felt allowed us to. We became friends with the coffee owner, and we just would have fun together. And I don't know, it was just a nice time. So I also don't. I don't judge myself too much. I don't want to beat myself up about anything. I'm just kind of like, listen, we're all trying to do our best to get to the end of the day. If I see an area where I can improve a little bit, go for it. But I'm not going to, I don't know, make myself feel bad. I mean, look, we're doing such a noble thing, and just the fact that we're in this community and we're going for it means we're so far ahead of the status quo. So if I'm not doing it perfectly, would I got to work six extra months or a year? That's fine. I don't know. That's kind of how I justify stuff in my head for better. And it works for me because I don't want to obsess about it too much. I have the tendency to be like that. I've chilled out a lot with it, and I think it's been good for my general mental health.

Ginger (41:04)

Yeah. Well, let's go back to. You said you like the nitty gritty and the action tips and the hacks. What are some of those things that have worked for you on this path?

Ron Babcock (41:15)

Definitely the switching our phones from the Verizon family plan. The hardest part was getting out of the family plan. That's the hardest part. It's not hard to switch your phone. It's hard to have the conversation with your family be like, hey, I got a bounce, man. This is crazy. But, I mean, I'm talking about $15 a month. I pay it once, I think came in at like $270 with the activation fee. Yeah. Mint mobile. And it works better than the other phone plan we had. And now I pay that once a month, and I don't have that monthly subscription cost anymore. I went from having this cost that was 50, whatever, now to 15, and I pay it once a year, and then I don't have to worry about it monthly. That's been huge.

Ginger (41:52)

That's a good one.

Ron Babcock (41:53)

That's not a good one. Automating all the investments and savings. So my paycheck hits on a certain day, and then, boom, it goes into my savings. I do Invest in the market on Mondays, because historically, I don't do any timing the market, but historically, the market is down on a Monday because people are like, it's Monday. So I do just put my money in on a Monday, and then I just. I don't try and time anything. But that's the one little timing tweak I do.

Ginger (42:22)

Yeah. Can I tell you my. So I'm convinced that I need to go to Mint Bone Bowl. I'm just waiting out a contract, and then I'm going to. I'm on board.

Ron Babcock (42:31)

I watched so much welcome to Wrexham that I was like, fine, I'll do it. But you know what? But my wife. Wife's still on the family plan, so I got to get her out. Like, I've made it out. But when you leave a family plan, it gets higher for the people still in the family plan. So it's like, hey, I'm going to bounce and it's going to negatively affect you.

Ginger (42:50)

Right.

Ron Babcock (42:50)

It's a tough conversation. But, like, I was like, I'm saving, like, personally, like, I don't know, $700 a year.

Ginger (42:57)

Yeah, you got to get her out.

Ron Babcock (42:58)

Oh, other nitty gritty thing is that my wife's going back to school to get her master's, and I realized that that makes her eligible because she has a university email address that makes her eligible for all the student discounts for all the streaming services. And I switched us, and I think I saved us, like, $500 a year. It's like, instead of, like, paying, I don't know, whatever the Disney plus, because you legally, as a parent, have to have Disney plus if you don't pay. Instead of paying, like, $14.99, it's now like $1.99 or something. Like, crazy, crazy cheap. And it has ads, but I'm fine. Whatever. We don't watch that much. But that was a big thing where I was. And it was. Guess what? It was super annoying. But I figured it out in one night. I've gotten really good at the email that Brad sends out and that people list their wins. I've gotten really good at when something happens to me of calling around and getting quotes. So our windshield just got a crack in it. And I called around this took 20 minutes. And I called this one place. It was Affordable Auto Care, whatever it was in the name. And it was $500 to fix this windshield crack. And then I called a bunch of other places, and then I got a guy who's like, for 250. So 50% off. And they both did it. Said I could do it in the next day.

Ginger (44:11)

Wow.

Ron Babcock (44:11)

And the guy's like. I'm like, do I need to pay cash? He's like, no, okay. And I'm like, great, okay, I'll get points. And so I've gotten really good at just calling around and just taking 20 minutes, and that's been big. I've saved a considerable amount of money checking out on stuff like that.

Ginger (44:26)

Yeah, that's a really good tip. I want to go back to me for a second.

Ron Babcock (44:31)

I want to go back to you as well.

Ginger (44:33)

I want to go back to me.

Ron Babcock (44:34)

Do you want to talk about working out now? Can we talk about working out?

Ginger (44:37)

No, I want to go back to the phone thing because I want to tell you my one hesitation, even though it's such a big saving, I'm going to do it regardless. But I want to tell you my hesitation as someone who, okay, you've got this phone. I have one friend who I convinced to do this. I haven't again done it yet. She went. She's happy.

Ron Babcock (44:55)

Oh, I love this that you, like, had her do it first just to.

Ginger (44:57)

See what would happen because I'm trapped in this contract. Doesn't matter. Okay. But she said the one thing she doesn't like about it is we. We are both from Montana and we live in Washington now. And so she's like, sometimes when I'm going on those roads, I can't get a connection. And I'm not driving around the back roads of Montana very often, to be honest. But I am so directionally insane. To quote the guy on the Good Place, like, I will just die if I get lost. I'll just die.

Ron Babcock (45:27)

One thing you can do is. Do you have an iPhone or an Android?

Ginger (45:31)

IPhone.

Ron Babcock (45:32)

Okay, so one thing you can do on. If you could download Google Maps, which I'm sure you have on your phone, you can download an area so that it's there. You can, like, select an area to download onto your phone and it'll download, like. So if you don't have Internet, you'll still be able to have access to all the road data. You just won't have access to the live information, like traffic and, you know, if there's a cop nearby or whatever. So I have that for, like, Southern California in case there was ever an earthquake, you know, knock on wood. Or an emergency. Like, I have all of Southern California downloaded so that if we got in the car, like, I could still have Google Map directions. But you can also just have, like, I mean, you know, you don't need to get Mint Mobile. I mean there's like, you know, every major carrier has their, like mv. N O, their whatever. It's called the Mobile Virtual Network Operator, which is like, what?

Ginger (46:20)

I don't know.

Ron Babcock (46:20)

Like Mint Mobile works on T Mobile towers. So Mint Mobile pays T Mobile money to use their towers, but they don't have stores so they can charge lower prices. So like Verizon's version of that is like Boost Mobile, I think, like, I don't know at. And T's is like cricket. So if you asked around in Montana to people like, hey, which service works really well here? If they say Verizon, then you know, okay, I should get Boost Mobile for. So I mean, you have to do a little bit of research. And I mean I found out in my area that actually T Mobile does pretty well. So it's not as great as like what I had before. But you know, I'd say it's like 90% there, 95% there. Like I can get service in certain parking lots where I didn't get service before. And there's occasionally there's other dead zones here and there. But I'm like, was it worth paying 700 more dollars a year to not be momentarily inconvenienced every few months? No, obviously not. So I have come to peace with it. Join us.

Ginger (47:21)

I'm coming. I'm on my way. All right, let's do two more tips from Ron.

Ron Babcock (47:26)

This is so funny because actually I wanted to start a podcast about tips because I love tips so much.

Ginger (47:32)

This is great. This is your entry.

Ron Babcock (47:33)

Yeah, I was going to call it the Babcock tip and it's only going to be 10 minutes long. That's the thing. This is what I hate about tips is that when people got you and you tune into something, even like YouTube videos if you like ever, you know, trying to fix a dryer, which I had to do recently, and you look up YouTube videos and somehow people turn that into like this 37 minute like journey and like, just give me the information and let me go on with my life. So I like, I like really short tips. It's like, I don't, you don't need to become here my emotional arc. Just here's the thing I did that saved me a little money. The unclaimed property. I feel like that's like the low hanging fruit of the FI community, the missingmoney.org or whatever that thing. I didn't have any, but I had a friend. I punched in all my Names of all my friends and family and my buddy. I was like, hey, dude, is this you? And I gave him some of the information. He's like, yeah. I'm like, I think you have some money. And it's going to be more than like a hundred dollars. It ended up being a thousand dollars.

Ginger (48:27)

What?

Ron Babcock (48:27)

And he needed it. Like, it really worked. He had to jump through some hoops, but he was like, dude, that really helped me out. So I say, for the holiday season, especially if you don't have a lot of money, go to that website and put in the information. But the reason why you have missing money is because there was most likely some kind of clerical error, like someone somewhere entered your address wrong, so they weren't able to. The money never made it to you. It got bounced back. I tend to just put my name in and then wade through all the information rather than going super specific with my name and my city, because stuff doesn't come up. So you just got to just put your name in, put your first and last name in, Maybe a variation of it. So I would put in Ron and Ronald. So that's what I would do. But that one was good. Trying to think, what are other tips? You got me on the spot. Now I'm thinking of. I'm worried. The YouTube university has been huge, though. Just when something breaks around the house, I. I fixed our dryer, and I felt I was in over my head. I mean, the whole thing was disassembled. And then I realized a dryer is actually a pretty simple mechanism, and I was able to fix it. And when I removed it, I found out there was a. I don't want to curse, but there was a beep ton of lint outside the dryer barrel. It was fire hazard. It was insane. So I'm really glad I did it because I was like, oh, my gosh. I. Wow, this is bad. So that. And every time I fix a little something, I get a little bit more confident. So I started doing my own oil changes. And really, it just makes me feel super manly. And the added bonus of like, oh, that just saved me, like, 60 bucks.

Ginger (50:05)

Yeah, that's pretty impressive. I like that you were like, well, I guess I'll put the beep sound in because I can't think of another adjective. But of course, a ton of lint.

Ron Babcock (50:14)

Listen, as an editor, you know, I'm used to that beep sound, so.

Ginger (50:20)

All right. Do you like to travel?

Ron Babcock (50:22)

I did. God, in my previous life, I traveled so much. I. In college, I did a semester at Sea. And then I also worked on another program that was similar to Semester C called the Scholarship and I was the video guy on that. So I've been around the world twice on a ship and there were amazing experiences and stand up. About 10 years ago, I did a. A tour in an old vintage Mercedes Benz and I drove coast to coast for three months, did like 90 shows. God, I came back a shell of a man. I was so tired, it was crazy. I actually met my wife like three days before I left for that trip. And then we kept in touch the whole time. And then I came back and got together and now we're married. Yeah, I absolutely love to travel and it's something that I want to do more. I'm a little bit. We've done it a little bit with a little one. And I know people say I just need to bite the bullet. Here's my challenge.

Ginger (51:16)

How old is your kid?

Ron Babcock (51:17)

First of all, he's two and a half.

Ginger (51:19)

Okay.

Ron Babcock (51:20)

So it's not like the distress of traveling. I'm fine with that. It's the like, if I have a job, it's like, oh, I don't. We can't travel. I got a job. Like, I can't. Like, TV's kind of crazy. Like it's sometimes you're really in it and it's difficult to take time off and then when you don't have a job, you're like, I can't travel right now. I don't got a job that's not like financially. So we kind of get in this, like, when are we going to do this stuff? But we do have some goals for the next year and I think we're going to do some road trips in and around California to visit friends and we'd love to go back to Hawaii because we went there to get married and we want to go back there with a bunch of friends and family. So yeah, we do have that as a goal. I'm going to make it happen. I do love the whole the credit card kind of thing. We're not hardcore about it, but I'm hardcore about it enough where I barely ever pay for a flight and I'm flying one to two times a year, so I just do enough to kind of pay for that. So that's been another big thing.

Ginger (52:14)

I started listening to this other podcast and the episode title was something like why we're not doing travel rewards anymore. I'm like, oh, I got to listen to this. Maybe they know something that I don't know because I love travel.

Ron Babcock (52:28)

Rewards. I mean, I always like it. Like, I think it's like a nice. Like, I don't know. I'd be interested to see why they're not doing it.

Ginger (52:34)

I know. Well, I listened to it, and then I heard that she was talking about how, like, they were so overwhelmed with their 18 cards or whatever, and I was like, oh, that's what people are doing.

Ron Babcock (52:46)

But that's. Yeah, that's the thing that I kind of was like, oh, I just don't want that. So now I'm like, I just do every. Yeah, it's coming up. Every year on January 1st, I just get a new card. I'm like, what's the card out there? And if it's not the greatest bonus that ever lived, that's fine. It's still 80,000. Whatever. I just do that card for the next year. So that's kind of where I've kind of got to it. I need to be interesting to assign my wife off to, and then we both do it. But one thing at a time. There's a list of things that I need to do, and I have been putting it off, like, rolling over old 401ks and stuff like that. Like, real stuff that I should have done by now, but I'm just trying to inch forward. It's like that gap in the gain thing. They measure backwards, measure from where you are and not where you want to go. And that's been very helpful for me. Of. I started this in 2018, and if I just look at how far I've come, I'm like, I'm very proud of it. And I'm like. And the fact that it really helped us when I was unemployed for almost a year, that was very motivating to keep going. But I'm also trying not to do it to the point where I start to obsess and lose sleep about it, because I'm just like, I don't know. It doesn't feel very productive.

Ginger (53:58)

Yeah, well, you said something about goals, travel goals for the new year. So let's kind of close out with. I know you have some other goals for the year, and we're at that time of year where it's like talking about and thinking about who you want to be next year. Tell us a little bit about future rock.

Ron Babcock (54:16)

Let me just open up my 20, 24 goals. I could tell you my goals from last year and all the things that I didn't hit. Okay, ready? Stand up on a surfboard. Didn't hit it. Oh, God. I'm trying. I'M so bad at it, but I'm going to keep trying. Go in the ocean every month. Did not hit it. Go paddle boarding with my wife. Did not do it. Bike to this town nearby with my wife. Did it with my wife, but did it on my own. It was like 36 miles and it almost broke me. Start boxing again. Did it. Spar once. Did not do it. Still afraid of it. Going to do it this year. Make journaling a habit. Starting to do that. Hit and miss. Make a reel and website. Did it. Hey, Ron dot com. I think it turned out kind of cool. Restore the director chairs. Didn't do it. I have dreams of those. TikTok restoring furniture or the people who restore cast iron. Oh, my God, I could watch that stuff forever. Travel somewhere. And we did. We did technically travel somewhere. And it was a delightful time. So those were my goals from last year. A lot of my goals for this year probably going to be those that I didn't hit. I think, honestly, I just want to stand up on a surfboard. That's kind of the big goal, is I want to stand up on a surfboard and I want to feel that because I've took my niece out and she stood up immediately and I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

Ginger (55:36)

Well, you live in la. Isn't this a requirement?

Ron Babcock (55:39)

No, we live kind of in the LA area, a little bit outside where most people in la, believe me, don't surf. And whenever I tell people at work that I started surfing, they're like, really? I don't enjoy the tone in their voice. So. But I'm going to do it. That's my big goal. I'm trying to do a lot of little things. Oh, I'll tell you, the 1% little improvements I made that I was really proud of is I had no more phone at mealtimes, so I don't have my phone with me at the dinner table anymore.

Ginger (56:09)

Nice.

Ron Babcock (56:10)

I got an alarm clock in my bedroom and I charged my phone in the kitchen, so I don't check my phone at night or when I wake up. And that's been huge. I got a bike seat for our son. That's been probably the biggest game changer, is now we just bike together. And it's the best. And then I started journaling more and I read that Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter and he talks about rucking, which is a fancy word for just carrying weight in a backpack. And I started doing that on When I walk my dog. So those are the little things that I. And honestly, I never tell anybody about this stuff because I feel a little weird to go to my friends, be like, I don't have my phone at mealtimes anymore. So I appreciate you giving me this safe space where I could share this kind of stu. Because I never talk about this with anybody, but I feel like this community is. People would be like, oh, yeah, I do that. And it's a very welcome and open space. So thank you for letting me dive into all that.

Ginger (57:05)

Oh, my gosh. I started putting my phone to bed. I started doing something similar. It has a little bed.

Ron Babcock (57:11)

Oh, that's awesome.

Ginger (57:12)

Downstairs. It's away from my bed.

Ron Babcock (57:14)

Is it just like, a bucket of dry rice and you just stick it in that?

Ginger (57:18)

A bucket of dry rice, yeah.

Ron Babcock (57:20)

So now, what are some of your goals? I'm interested. I've been vulnerable. I've shared my vulnerabilities of things that I hope to focus on in the new year. I want to know what Ginger's gonna try and do.

Ginger (57:30)

This is not how this works, Ron. I asked the questions. No, I definitely am one of those people where you're like, oh, yeah. I think in this community, I'm definitely a goal person, and I will sit down with my little list of goals here soon. So I don't know that I have them all out, but one of them is about the budgeting thing where I do. I'm not crazy. I do, like, track to some extent, but I really want to get serious about it.

Ron Babcock (57:57)

But I understand, like, you can go, like, sometimes. Like, if my wife went to Target, I'm like, well, technically, 60% of that was groceries and 40% of it was. I'm like, oh, God, just put it under general merchandise. Like, it's like, you can. I don't know where the line is sometimes, and I have trouble with that.

Ginger (58:12)

I'm going to find out where the line is.

Ron Babcock (58:14)

I think you find what works for you. And I know I found an area where I'm like, okay, I feel comfortable with what we're spending. I don't think it's ridiculous. I don't think it's not depriving ourselves. So we found that. But I know what you mean. You can't obsess over it too much.

Ginger (58:28)

And there's a thing on Amazon where you can say, how much did I spend last year?

Ron Babcock (58:34)

We share our Amazon account, so ours is all over the place. It's just pure chaos.

Ginger (58:39)

Yeah. I did this a few years ago, and it was horrific.

Ron Babcock (58:42)

Oh, yeah.

Ginger (58:43)

And it really put me off from, like, I've never touched that button again. And so part of my goal is, like, I don't want to not be looking at that out of this, like, weird emotion that I can't handle.

Ron Babcock (58:54)

I go to my purchase history at the end of the year, and then I kind of see, like, okay, am I still using this purchase? Like, was this something that actually still continues to provide value? And so that's why I've, like. And I tell you, that Sunday thing that I do, like, that works, like, when I'm on that and I'm really sticking to it because it is. Takes a lot of willpower. It. A lot of times, I end up taking stuff out. You know, I'm like. I've gotten good at just finding. Like, we live in one of those neighborhoods where, like, the neighborhood provides. You know, there's just things on the side. I was going to buy a dresser from, like, a thrift store for our closet in our guest room. And on the way there, I saw a dresser, like, the exact size, like, on the side of the road. And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, way too excited about it. And I told a lot of my friends, and they're like, cool story, bro. But if I tell someone in fi, they're like, that's amazing. Like, they're so excited for me. But it worked out. So I find that if I wait for it, it will come into my life. I'll find it at a garage sale or I'll see it on Facebook, Marketplace, but if I want to jump the line and have it now, then I buy it new. But if I just wait, and I'm okay with waiting, I will get the things I'm hoping to get. Like, I want a flat dolly for the garage, so I could, like, put stuff on it and move it around. I could probably build one, but, I mean, there's only. I mean, I haven't got around to restoring director's chairs. Am I really going to build a flat dolly? Like, I know my limits, so too much stuff to get done, Ginger. Right.

Ginger (60:18)

Okay. So another of my goals is manifesting a dresser. No.

Ron Babcock (60:22)

Just kidding.

Ginger (60:23)

Well, we'll stop there on my goals. I've talked about this on the show, but I'm, like, so awkward at ending episodes. What do you think would be a good thing for us to end on?

Ron Babcock (60:37)

I'm a really big fan of the awkward ending. And then you just cut it right there. And that's where we end the episode. And then we just. And that's it. That was a joke we did on Clone High. And I was a big fan of that joke. So I don't know, I was kind of trying to open and end with gratitude. So I'd say I just want to thank you for having me on. It's like, I never thought I would be on a Choose Fi type or an Fi type podcast because I don't know. But I was flattered that you asked me and I hope that some of this stuff was useful to other people. And whenever I hear these kind of conversations, I find it really useful just to hear other people talk about the minutiae of it all. So it keeps me motivated.

Ginger (61:15)

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And thank you so much for coming on. It's heartwarming to hear you say that because I always think when I reach out to people, I'm like, there's no way this person is gonna.

Ron Babcock (61:25)

Oh, I'm a stand up comedian. I'll literally be on any podcast. There's a very low bar. I think there was one podcast I ever said no to. I was like, oh, come on, that was. That's weird. I don't want to do that one. But yeah, listen, if you guys are interested, you can listen to my standup on Spotify. So I got an album on there called this Guy and you could listen to it for free unless you reached FI and then you could go to iTunes and pay $10 for it.

Ginger (61:50)

All right, that's a perfect place for us to end. Thanks so much, Ron, and thank you everyone listening today and we'll catch you next time.

Jonathan (61:58)

Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the choosefy community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first, subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player. Just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning. So just head over to choosefi.com subscribe and it's really, really easy to get on the the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a FY local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to choose a vi.com local and you'll find a list of all of Those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world. And if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways choose a Fi episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the Fi community. And even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up. And it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence. What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then choose if I created a Financial Independence 101 course that's entirely free, just head to choosefi.comfi101 and again, thanks for listening.

Ron Babcock (63:41)

It.