← ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
610 | Sabbatical Success: Around the World in 367 Days
00:49:58
Mini retirement on $30K? It's possible
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- [00:00]
A
Hey everybody, it's Ginger. Today we have a special follow up episode. I'm talking to Zach from 2025 end of year wins, fame, or at least that's how I think of him. Brad and I shared some of his wins on that episode and declared him and his wife the winners of life. I knew after reading their initial email I had to learn more because listen, you want to know what they've done and how they've done it? I think this is going to be an inspiring episode with plenty of practical takeaways that you don't want to miss. And with that, welcome to Choose Fi.
- [00:38]
B
Before we get started, I keep this podcast entirely ad free for two reasons. First, this is a fi podcast and I don't want to promote products that I don't want you to buy in the first place. And second, I really like the clean listening experience of a show where you don't have to fast forward ads to keep it ad free. All I ask of you as a listener is the next time you open a travel rewards credit card, go to choosefi.com cards and with that onto the show.
- [01:07]
A
Zach, thanks for being on the show.
- [01:10]
B
Thank you for having me, Ginger. Very excited to be here.
- [01:13]
A
Well, let's go ahead and just jump in because the appeal I think of this episode and I know everyone is not remembering exactly who you were from the end of year win episode, but we shared so much of the travel that you had done and I really want to get into that and talk about, like, how you made these epic trips happen. But before we do, we want to hear a little bit about you. So can you tell us where you're living, what your age is and sort of where you're at on your Phi journey?
- [01:46]
B
Absolutely. So I am 40 years old, living in Arizona. My wife and I have been here for the majority of our lives. Born in Virginia and moved around a bit, but we're really happy here in Arizona. We love outdoor recreation and as far as, you know, how far along we are in our journey, I would say I'm not sure how to compare it to others, but we are far along and getting closer and closer to financial independence. So we're really excited.
- [02:15]
A
You know, I really struggle with that question as well because it kind of depends on, like what you're really asking. So what if I ask, are you going to retire early, Zach?
- [02:27]
B
Yes, we are.
- [02:29]
A
You're 40 now. When do you hope to retire?
- [02:31]
B
Retirement is an interesting word for me. So I don't know that I'll ever stop working or contributing to society. But we will be in the position, in my opinion, in the next five years to retire. I think that. That we're at the coast fi currently. If we wanted to put it into those terms, and if we wanted to reach financial independence all the way, then depending on how much we choose to work, we have a little one now that we could probably get there in the next few years.
- [03:01]
A
Yeah, you have a little one. I didn't know that.
- [03:05]
B
Yes. Just turned 7 months old, so this is very new for us.
- [03:10]
A
Okay. I think I know why you're not traveling full time. Okay, so 40 years old, and a couple years ago, you decided, let's take a year off and go explore the world. First of all, where did you get the idea you could do this?
- [03:27]
B
Great question. So I would say that I've always been inspired by traveling. When I was little, I was able to travel a little bit, but my family, we were poor, honestly, and. And that was a huge motivator to learn about financial independence. And I thought that world traveling was an impossible dream, that I would never have the opportunity to go anywhere. But I always wanted to, deep down. And I guess, fortuitously, I played soccer growing up and did pretty well, which allowed me to travel on a travel team. And my parents didn't even pay the fees. That's how, you know, my dad went bankrupt, and we had a series of huge financial issues. And so I was really motivated to get out of that. And I was in emergency medicine, and I was able to stack a lot of my shifts and travel for maybe seven days at a time, 10 days at a time, two weeks at a time. And it was never enough time to explore the way I wanted to. I always felt like, you know, what if I was able to listen to local recommendations and just go explore and listen to other travelers around me? What would long term slow travel look like, and would that be possible for me? And so I always had this craving. I read some books about it, and then I asked my wife, she also loves to travel. What if we, you know, look into this a little bit? Would that be something you'd be interested in? And my wife, the incredible woman that she is, almost immediately said, yes, let's do it.
- [05:06]
A
I mean, yes. So you're a doctor?
- [05:12]
B
I'm a physician and associate master's level program.
- [05:14]
A
And what does your wife do?
- [05:16]
B
My wife is also a pa. She works in the burn unit. And my background's in emergency medicine.
- [05:22]
A
Gotcha. I asked that question because I think the first thing that probably comes up in people's mind is like, how could you leave your job? Practically speaking, how does this work? And so I'm wondering if that was a concern for your wife when you said this crazy thing like, should we just quit our jobs? Or is it like, in your industry? Hey, it's pretty easy to get a different position when you come back where you want it.
- [05:47]
B
I would say it was very uncomfortable. However, I was always very open and transparent about our finances from the get go, even before we got married, when we were dating. Because in my background, it wasn't that way. In my family, finances were kind of a taboo topic. We experienced bankruptcy when I was a teenager. And I think a lot of the issues that I was seeing was that there wasn't a lot of communication about finance. And so my wife was very aware of where we were financially. We were doing well. You know, our savings rate was well over 90%. Yes, yes. So we live very frugally. I purchased a house at a. At a good time. And honestly, I've been studying personal finance since I was a teenager because I always wanted to overcome the circumstances that I was in as a child. So I was really motivated to learn what can I do? And the easiest thing for me was to be frugal because I was used to that already. The investing part, that's been the struggle. But when you're traveling, you really don't need to spend as much as people imagine.
- [06:58]
A
Okay, I want to get into that. So you said, hey, would you like to do this crazy thing? And she said, yes, let's do it. So what were the next steps after that?
- [07:07]
B
Next steps, I think were, okay, what would this look like? We started reading some books. I think there was a book that talked about, you know, one year around the world. And there are surprisingly a lot of books, blogs, resources out there of people that have done this. And initially it was a matter of, is this even possible? Do we believe that this is possible? And so it was getting that belief. And once I learned about some other stories, then I thought, why not us? You know, there are people that I've traveled on even less than what we were budgeting for. And so coming up with a budget, coming up with a route, all of it, it's hard to remember exactly, you know, step by step, what did we do first, second, third. But it was all kind of. We were taking bits and pieces from each of the stories that we were learning from and compiling a plan that made sense for us. What did we want to do? What types of countries did we want to see I'm not sure if you've heard of low burn and high burn areas, but we wanted to not only live in countries that are third world countries, but also, you know, travel to beautiful places that are more expensive and. And you can even that out by visiting places that are lower cost of living. So that when higher cost of living comes around, it basically you can balance those. That's how we chose to approach it. We also chose to chase the sun, so to speak, and that allowed us to pack lightly. So we only brought backpacks for this year, and that was a great decision.
- [08:39]
A
Yeah. I wonder how you came up with your budget and how accurate it ended up being. And what I'm thinking about is I'm really deeply trying to understand my own budget just in my, like, pretty stable life, and it turns out to be really difficult. And I kind of think like, the complexity of all of my expenses right now, I kind of think maybe this is what people are talking about when they're like, oh, traveling is a lot less expensive because I think you don't have all the complex. Oh yeah, once a year I have to pay this weird fee or like, oh yeah, I forgot about car insurance, or there's just like so many things that are irregular. And so my thought is like, that's what you mean. That's what people mean is like, you need food and shelter and insurance probably, and that there's not a lot of those, like, extra things that come along with, like being deeply embedded in the community. What do you think of my theory? Is that kind of the idea of how you can cut down so much?
- [09:48]
B
Absolutely. I would say the more simple the better. I think traveling teaches you simplicity in a very interesting way. I can tell you that when we were packing our backpacks, we were terrified. We thought there is no way that we're going to be able to fit everything that we need. And we, we couldn't fit the pile of clothes and things that we were planning to bring. But when we came home at the end of the year, we had plenty of room to spare. And so your mindset just really shifts from this is what we think we need to. This is what we need. And when you budget, I think we set aside way more money than we actually needed to, which is a good thing.
- [10:30]
A
Yep. Better that way than the other way.
- [10:32]
B
And we also gave ourselves permission to end the trip whenever we wanted. It wasn't a pressure situation. So we decided, you know, this is a unique opportunity. It's an investment in ourselves, in our marriage, and in ourselves personally. As well. And that was our approach. We weren't putting pressure on ourselves to do something great. We just wanted to learn about ourselves. We learn about the world around us and gain that awareness, gain perspective, make friends around the world, and just. There are a couple inflection points in my life that led to this moment as well that we can get to if you want. But, yeah, we didn't feel a lot of pressure in terms of we have to accomplish this and do all of these things. We didn't have a set itinerary, and that was very intentional, because when you have that level of flexibility, people, you overspend a little bit. Then you can say, let's cut back a little bit. Let's not do as many activities, go on walks and see some beautiful neighborhoods. And that's equally entertaining and fun most of the time and costs almost nothing.
- [11:33]
A
Yeah, I can see there really being wisdom in how you approached it, where you were like, okay, let's keep our eyes on the prize here of, like, we're doing this to have fun. And so if it's not fun fun anymore, or, like, maybe fun isn't the right word, but, like, we're not writing a book at the end of this. I guess the reason I say that is because when you said, oh, I read a book, I was thinking, was it the Dan Koi book about where he took his family around?
- [11:58]
B
I think I did read that book, yes.
- [12:00]
A
Yeah. Well, the thing that stuck out to me about that book, even though I really enjoyed it and I read it with the idea of, like, ooh, could we do something like this? Right. Is this guy who took his family to three or four different places. I think they spent like, three months each, but it started to be such a grind. And, you know, and he's really, like, upfront about that, about that, how it just kind of stopped being fun. And so I like this mindset that you had going in where you said, okay, like, the reason we're doing this is not to fulfill a book contract. We're doing this because it's satisfying, and if it's not satisfying, then we can do something else. Absolutely.
- [12:37]
B
Yes. It was absolutely for us. And it was also. I'm not sure if you've heard the term mini retirement.
- [12:44]
A
Absolutely. Jillian Johnson.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah. So Tim Ferriss, I think, is the first place where I heard this on the Tim Ferriss show, or maybe from his book. But that concept of let's trial different areas, different lifestyles, different places of living, and. And see what feels right to us, and this seemed like an interesting opportunity to do that as well. And we weren't married to the idea of coming back to Arizona as well. I should have mentioned that earlier, but we had all of our things essentially packed up and we were prepared to move anywhere at the end of the year. But we chose to come back here because ultimately we, we love Arizona and we have great friends, family, and, and it's a fantastic place to be. But we left ourselves completely open to changing it up if we so decided.
- [13:34]
A
I wonder if that feels more satisfying to like, be where you are, because it didn't happen by default. You were like, oh, we considered all these other places. And then ultimately we chose again, like, to go back to our home. That feels like that could feel satisfying.
- [13:51]
B
Yeah, it does. It does. I think that if you don't leave your place of origin, it's hard to even have a reference point for where you are. You don't really understand. I don't know the exact quote, but you'll, you know, have an opportunity to leave and for the first time when you come back, that's the first time you really understand what you had to begin with.
- [14:11]
A
Yeah. You see it from a different perspective.
- [14:13]
B
Yeah.
- [14:14]
A
Okay, so you said you over budgeted or you were like really conservative in how you were thinking about how much money you would need, is that right?
- [14:22]
B
Very much so. I, I can tell you numbers as well. I'm.
- [14:25]
A
I want to hear numbers because here's the thing. I know that like a. This was a few years ago. This is 2023, right. When you set off.
- [14:33]
B
Yes.
- [14:34]
A
And everybody is different and has their different preferences. And obviously we get that there's like, there's so many different ways to do this. Acknowledged. But it is so helpful, I think, to actually hear someone's like, true experience when we're trying to figure out if this is something that could be available to us. Just like you were saying, world travel didn't seem like a possibility when I was a kid. Seeing something, seeing it laid out in a very real way. Even if we can be like, okay, well, his situation is different from ours. Helps it to feel real and, like, gives us a starting place. So, yes, if you're comfortable with numbers, tell us, like, how much did you budget for this trip and how much did it end up costing?
- [15:19]
B
Absolutely. So we were looking at 50,000 for the year. I thought we would easily be able to come under 50,000. You know, we didn't want to go so low that we were eating beans and rice every day. We wanted to be able to do activities and splurge occasionally as well. And then also I wanted to give ourselves six months on the back end of the trip to find jobs if we wanted to, and just not have to worry at all about money. And so 50,000 on the back end as well, which is more than we needed. But my conservative mind, I wanted to have plenty. And we ended up spending just under 30,000.
- [16:00]
A
Wow.
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B
If I told you the list of activities we did and the places we visited, you would not think it was possible. And if you told me before this trip that that's what we would have been able to do with 30 grand, I would have said, there's no way. You're crazy. That's not possible. And so I think just having the belief that it is possible to travel and then looking for opportunities to connect with others, and I can get into some of the strategies that we use to save money, whether that's, you know, free lodging, opportunities, food. I mean, we used some rewards, but that wasn't it. We connected with people, stayed with friends, family, people that we met while we were traveling. We used work away so we can get into any of those variables that you like. But yeah, between rewards, working using our time, energy, skills in exchange for some of the things that you need while you're living, we were able to live at a very low cost of living.
- [17:00]
A
Yeah, $30,000 sounds insane to me. That's incredible.
- [17:06]
B
Yeah, it blew my mind. Honestly. I didn't know until after the trip when I tallied everything and I tracked our finances very closely.
- [17:14]
A
Okay, yeah, let's go into what were some of the ways that you saved. Were you staying in scary places?
- [17:22]
B
You would think so, but actually. But actually not. So we started this trip doing medical trips, and I was invited to Antigua, Guatemala. So some of the neighboring areas in Guatemala, we would exchange. We would actually train some of the nurses and doctors that are local, and we would see patients and put up free clinics for the locals. And we spent the first two weeks doing that in Guatemala. They paid for our flights from Arizona to Guatemala. That was an amazing experience. After that, they flew us to our next destination and we continued our travel and they wanted us back. And so we went back and we volunteered again for two weeks and did medical trips and went to Atitlan Lake, a bunch of other areas in Guatemala. Beautiful country that we love dearly. And then they flew us to our next destination from there. So that was one strategy that we used. We also taught English while we were in Guatemala. After the medical trips, briefly.
- [18:22]
A
Tell me about the Teaching experience, because it seems like that's more of a hey, contracted one year kind of thing. So like, what did that look like? How did you get that? What were the terms?
- [18:34]
B
Yeah, so this is a friend of a friend that was a director for a nursing program that had a site in Guatemala where they would get practice by helping the underprivileged or people that, that just didn't have access to healthcare at all. And they would go into their homes, they would set up clinics and churches and they needed providers, you know, doctors, physician associates. And he's like, hey, Zach, would you be interested in doing something like this? And I thought, man, absolutely. This is something, you know, I hate to sound woo woo, but manifested this opportunity because I've always wanted to do medical trips and, and have the experience of going somewhere that, where they don't have health care and be able to help people that, that need it. So that was a fantastic bridge to doing something I, that I loved and also to be able to travel as well. So that was the first opportunity and it was an easy transition because we were already working in medicine and now we were just essentially helping these nursing students, medical students, and they were paying for our lodging, our food, everything while we were there. Because it wasn't just volunteering for the communities which was most important to us, but it was also part of the tuition of these nursing students and medical students who are getting experience down there. So we didn't have any contract to make a. A long story. Relatively short.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah. All right, what are some of the other ways that you saved money that you got that down to that 30,000.
- [20:09]
B
Okay. We applied on workaway or not applied. Are you familiar with workaway?
- [20:15]
A
No. Tell us what workaway is.
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B
So it's a platform where you can put your interests, you can do it as a single person, as a couple, you can talk about your skills. You know, maybe you have a background in construction or in tech or design. And there are opportunities all over the globe where people are looking for someone to come and stay with them or work on their project. And in exchange for staying with them for free food, whatever, then you help them out with a project that they're working on. And so we were able to do that in England for two months and that was actually a paid gig for us. So we lived in London for two months, traveled all around England to the most beautiful places that we wanted to see personally. While this wasn't a quasi English class, young professionals from all around Europe and all around the world, really, that would come to London, and we would take them to beautiful places and they would have conversational English opportunities. And we got paid to do that for two months.
- [21:19]
A
Oh, my gosh. That's awesome.
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B
Yeah, it was fantastic.
- [21:23]
A
So it's like the woofer of. I mean, I have heard of, like, this, like, if you're doing farming or if you're doing. But I haven't heard of a platform that's like, oh, this is for all sorts of different work that you can do. Yes, that seems really cool.
- [21:37]
B
And you may or may not have experience in the area where they're asking for help, so a lot of the opportunities they're willing to teach you. For example, we applied to an alpaca farm in Norway, and we actually got accepted to it, but because we would have overstayed our visa, we weren't able to do that one.
- [21:56]
A
Oh, sure. Well, I want to go to the alpaca farm.
- [21:59]
B
Yes, you and me both.
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A
All right, what about when you weren't working? What did you do for accommodation? Were you doing something like Airbnb, or were you just playing it by ear, place to place?
- [22:11]
B
Yeah, it depends on the location. We used Airbnb sometimes. We were genius. Level 3 on booking.com we would book a lot. Booking.com, we would do home stays where you could stay with locals wherever you're going. That was excellent in Southeast Asia. We stayed with an amazing family in Vietnam. Had our own private room, bathroom, air conditioning, and it was $12 a night. We had a beautiful place in Peru to ourselves. Had like two or three bedrooms, $30 a night that included breakfast. So, I mean, that gets into the. The geo arbitrage component of, you know, you're coming from a higher income country or economy, and then you're spending much lower in the country that you're visiting. So we would use things like that. We did stay in hostels a couple times. And when somebody hears the term hostel, I think they automatically think of bunk beds and it's grungy. But that's not the case in Europe, for example. So we stayed in a beautiful hostel in Salzburg, Austria, and that was a private room, private kitchen. But then you have the benefit of being able to connect with everybody else that's staying in that area. That's really the benefit of hostel travel, in my opinion. For us, we really prioritize having a private bathroom, having a kitchen in a private room.
- [23:36]
A
Was that the main way that you connected with other people? Before you had said that it was so important to, like, make friends. Right. Like, that does seem like, one thing that's hard, like, yeah, you. You have your wife, but when you're in Arizona, you probably have this whole community of people, including, like, your co workers. Like, just people who see different parts of ourselves and who bring out different parts of us. I could see that being hard for a year to have, like, no one else to talk to. So you're saying, like, oh, yeah, there we really were intentional about connecting with other people. Hostels is one way to do that. Were there other ways that you did that?
- [24:14]
B
Yes, we were very intentional about getting out of our comfort zone. So if we went on hikes, tours, we were talking to people every day. We wanted to get to know people from all around the world, and we did that. So sometimes it was conversations on a bus. In fact, we have a very good friend from Malaysia, a retired engineer, and we were hiking to a volcano and met him and became friends. And about eight months later, we ended up staying with him in Malaysia in his home. And that was amazing, you know, full circle experience. We're still friends with him to this day. Similarly, I met somebody hiking in Albania, and then while we were in Germany, I stayed with him and went to soccer games. Really fun experience. So we met people on public transportation sometimes, sometimes at hostels like you mentioned, or other activities. Just everywhere we were, we were trying to meet people.
- [25:12]
A
Did you make intentional effort to keep your relationships alive at home?
- [25:18]
B
We did.
- [25:19]
A
Okay, were you like, we're disconnecting for a year. We'll see you in a year?
- [25:23]
B
Yeah, a little bit of both. Honestly. We didn't want to put too much pressure on ourselves to connect with everybody at home because we were having this very unique opportunity traveling. In fact, we didn't have cell phone service at all until we got to the very end of our trip in New Zealand for the last month. Just because we wanted to see, you know, what job opportunities or what life might look like when we get back. And we would be in some rural areas, but aside from that, Wi Fi is everywhere and we felt like it would be better to be unplugged for the majority of the time because it was easy to call people through Wi Fi or, or Zoom FaceTime, write emails. I did keep up with a blog for the majority of the trip. I called it two two two Tuesday. And it was a way for me to keep my mind and everything sharp and also to connect with my family members and friends without speaking to everybody individually because it was just. It was complicated. But yeah, we would FaceTime in coffee shops with friends, family, things like that.
- [26:23]
A
Yeah. Hey, that's another way that you saved some money doing that. That's really smart. I don't think I would have thought of that, but, like, yeah, you can just use WI Fi and you.
- [26:32]
B
It is everywhere.
- [26:34]
A
Yeah. I want to go back to something you said before about. Well, there were some inflection points. Like, there were some things that led up to this being the thing that I wanted to do and maybe the timing of it. Can you tell us a little about those?
- [26:48]
B
Yes. So the first, I would say, was bankruptcy that my family went through when I was a teenager. And it just brought this incredible awareness of what the lack of good decisions around personal finance, what that looks like, what the consequences can be. So that was motivation to learn about finance, personal finance, and learn about budgeting, learning about tracking expenses and spending, all of those things. I would say the second inflection point is pretty personal, but I'm happy to share it. I was hospitalized. I woke up in a coma in the ICU when I was. That was probably back in 2018. That experience of being hospitalized for a week really brought into perspective mortality and some sense of urgency to do the things in life that you want to do and to not wait. That's a profound teacher. The presence of death, the thought of it can be very instructive, and it was for me. So I think that was huge. I took a lot of time after that experience thinking about life, reflecting, you know, thinking about my core values. What is it that I actually want to accomplish in this world? Am I putting things off that I'd like to do? And I think all of that helped push me towards this experience as well.
- [28:11]
A
I wonder what is different about you that you were able to hold onto that, because I think that is a pretty common experience. Both, like, hey, you had a physical scare where you were like, oh, right, my own mortality. Or we see something or someone close to us. Like, it's very common to have that, hey, this is a chance to reevaluate, or for me to recognize that, like, putting things off forever is probably a mistake. But then there's a space there between, like, having that thought and, like, changing your life about it. And you changed your life about it. Right? Like, you acted on that assessment. Do you have any theories of why you did? Like, why you might be different?
- [28:55]
B
Oof. I don't know that I have a great answer for you. I will say that I had a lot of support. I have amazing friends and family, and I think it was really painful. It was very painful and pain is also a very great teacher. That's my belief. And I think when you have a certain level of pain, it can be motivating. And I try. I don't always do the best, but I try to learn from mistakes, and I try to learn from health scares, from near fatalities. You try and learn like, okay, well, what was happening in my life and how could that played out a little bit differently? And then it brings in, into your awareness what is the most important thing. I'm a big believer in things like atomic habits. I don't know if that's just an innate drive that I have or if it's something that I've worked on. That's a really tough question to answer. Maybe you can help me out with that. What do you think from your perspective?
- [29:52]
A
I do think the striving thing is innate. Right. That there is a thing in us that's like, I want to do better or I want to. I want to have that thing. I don't have even. That is like a form of striving that is like part of our survival and like, part of, like this thing that's in us. But like the action part or the continuing through with the effort, that is just rare. And especially hearing you say, I grew up with some tough financial stuff that happened, and what can come from that is like, ooh, I'm really going to hoard what I have in order to feel safe. I'm going to get a bunch of money and I'm never going to spend it. And so I imagine, like, for someone in that position, it could be especially challenging to be like, actually, all of these good choices that I've made, the fruition of that, or what I want to come from that is to do this amazing thing together and to spend this money investing in us. Like you said, I think that's a hurdle for a lot of people. For a lot of people who are listening are like, oh, I wish I could do that, but it would be hard to spend money on that. And yet for someone who has had that financial hardship, that would be even harder.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah, this was not an overnight decision. I will say, to be honest with you, I still struggle with this scarcity mindset that likes to rear its ugly head. And it's a reminder, you know, my wife and I, we have a mission statement. We talk about an abundance mentality, and that's what we're seeking. We don't always do the best at living that, but we want to be generous. We want to live with this abundant type of mindset. And I think it's powerful, I really do. But I do think it requires some type of system, whatever it is for you, anybody that's listening, it doesn't look the same for everybody, but I think it's good to have systems that keep you accountable to your core values. So when values are a priority, then what am I putting into place to make sure that I'm reminded that, you know, my actions need to reflect my beliefs and my values. That's something I spent a lot of time thinking about. There's a quote, and I'm not going to get it perfectly right, I don't think, but something to the effect of easy decisions, hard life. Hard decisions, easy life. And when you spend a lot of time thinking about the hard decisions and you go really deep, a mile deep and an inch wide on the core values of your life, then I think it makes it a little bit easier to create systems that will help you move forward in those directions. I don't know. That's my theory.
- [32:28]
A
Yeah, I'm thinking now too about how you have this experience. Now that must act as a kind of evidence for you when you are thinking about. You said, okay, we tried to live by this idea of abundance and now you have this example of like, we took this risk and we invested in ourselves and it sounds like it went really well and you don't regret it. Right. And so you have that experience of like, we did this uncomfortable thing and it went well and we can do another thing. We can maybe kind of rest in our own self efficacy.
- [33:03]
B
Yes, great point. And I would say the trip was not the first, you know, great financial outcome that we had. And because of previous financial outcomes where we made some decisions and we received some evidence, it gave us a stronger belief in our ability to make good decisions. And, and that kind of, you know, snowballs into now, this travel year and then that snowballs into the rest of life. I think that traveling can serve as cross training for pretty much every aspect of life. And we're very thrilled and fortunate that it happened. Sometimes it feels like a dream now that we're back and, and that it never actually happened. But, but we have a couple books with, you know, a lot of the stories that we wrote down and, and we like to read them and just kind of remind ourselves. But yeah, amazing experience. We're very grateful we had it. And like you said, it's getting that evidence can be really empowering.
- [33:57]
A
I love that you wrote some stuff down. I don't think I've shared this before, but my Prized possession is a family travel journal that where every time we go on a trip, I like, write down, like, what we're doing and the funny things that happened. And to me, it's like investing in that idea of the memory dividends where I cannot hold on to these memories in my brain. It's been this really cool thing that I did because when I look back, I forgot so much of that stuff. It would have been lost forever. But I'm like, so glad now that I have this little journal that documents those things and that helps keep that real for me.
- [34:41]
B
I love that. That's fantastic. Earlier on in life, I used to believe that I would remember everything. And then at some point you realized, no, it is helpful to write down to journal and to have something like that. So that's really cool.
- [34:55]
A
Let's transition to some of the fun stuff, like, what were your favorite places to go on this year long, epic trip?
- [35:06]
B
We started in Guatemala, so I'll start there. We hiked to El Fuego, which is a volcano, an active volcano that at the time that we were there, I think erupted on average about five times an hour.
- [35:20]
A
What?
- [35:21]
B
And so hiking up adjacent to this volcano, not on the volcano itself, but the mountain next to it, Acatenango, I think, is what it's called, was unbelievable. We were above the clouds and you could feel the rumble of the volcano, and it was a really challenging hike. That was an amazing experience, I would say. Our favorite places. We really loved Central and South America and Southeast Asia for the reason that, you know, you get amazing experiences and you're also spending less money. So we did some cooking classes in Thailand, which was really fun. And we were able to see some elephants cross with ferries across rivers and just areas that are very different from what we know, the unfamiliar. I think there's something special about exploring and just thinking about, you know, your curiosities and. And getting out in the world and. And feeling like you're in a foreign place. But we also really loved being in. In London. We spent quite a bit of time in Switzerland and Germany and New Zealand has been a highlight, you know, something that I've looked forward to my entire life. I've always wanted to go to New Zealand, and so hiking there and exploring in an RV for a few weeks was an incredible experience as well.
- [36:41]
A
My husband has that same dream of getting to New Zealand. What was the appeal to you? Was it mostly about just how beautiful it is or what were you excited to see and do there?
- [36:51]
B
Yeah, it's beautiful. My style. I really love to be in the mountains, and I love nature, and so the landscapes are incredible. It's not a very populated country, so you can drive for quite a while and not see people. Not that I. I am probably in between introvert and extrovert, but just having that time in nature was really special. The culture I really liked, we stayed on a farm, actually, for a week or so, and that was incredible. Just being able to. The wildlife and see the sheep and the way that they. I said wildlife, but on the farm, just the horses, cows, all the farm animals that they had, and then being able to hike, climb, do all the outdoor recreational stuff that we love to do. It's all there in New Zealand, and it's pristine and not very crowded, so it's. Yeah, it's just gorgeous.
- [37:44]
A
Were there any places that really surprised you?
- [37:47]
B
I would say Colombia was surprising. Probably El Salvador as well. Those two countries get a bad rep sometimes. I think that people are scared of Colombia. And, you know, back in the day, it was a very dangerous place, and so I understand that. But Colombia, Medellin, and everywhere we visited, it was unbelievable, beautiful. The people were amazing. And it was extremely inexpensive for what you get. It doesn't feel like a third world country or some of the South American countries that surround it. Like, you don't see as many stray dogs. It's very clean. The grocery stores, you have surprisingly great options. It feels like you're in America, almost like a first world country, but you're paying prices that are much, much, much, much lower. And then it's just beautiful. A lot of rainforest. So I think Colombia surprised us in that. I don't think I was expecting it to be that incredible and that inexpensive.
- [38:46]
A
Where of those places that you went, are you like, I know we'll go back there, Any of them.
- [38:51]
B
So we also loved Vietnam. We spent a month there almost.
- [38:56]
A
Where did you go in Vietnam?
- [38:57]
B
Fell in love with it. We started. Let's see. So Cat Ba. We spent very little time in Hanoi, but we were in Hanoi. We kind of went all over. But Vietnam is really interesting. Have you been there?
- [39:11]
A
No, but I'm curious. I. I'm going. Okay.
- [39:14]
B
Awesome. So the traffic there is crazy. You know, they have so many motorbikes, buses, cars, and they will not stop to let you cross. But if you step out into traffic, everyone stops and you're completely safe and you can just cross the road. It is the most bizarre feeling, and you don't trust it on day one, but by the time you leave, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna walk in front of all this traffic and they're all just gonna stop. And it. And it works. So being in some of those countries where it feels like you're almost in Mario Kart with a hundred thousand cars and everybody's crazy, but somehow it works.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah, I've been looking a little into it because like I said, I wanna take a trip. It might be two years out, but one thing that was interesting is looking out at the rice patties and being like, oh, that's not what I thought they were going to look like. Right. Like, just that experience of. For 47 years I had this idea in my head, I don't even know where that came from. And then travel gives you this experience of like, oh, it's completely different than what I was expecting. And so much of travel is that,
- [40:22]
B
yeah, it's like you have this concept in your mind and it's totally off once you experience it.
- [40:26]
A
And all right, so you go on this epic adventure. Did you make it the full year? Did you do a full year?
- [40:33]
B
We did. We made it 367 days, to be precise.
- [40:38]
A
To be precise.
- [40:39]
B
We ended in Hawaii to calm down at the very end.
- [40:42]
A
Oh, nice. And then how in the world did you reintegrate into society? Like, now it's time to go get a job and pay an electric bill. Like, what was that like?
- [40:57]
B
Yeah, I would be lying if I said there wasn't some culture shock. So getting back into it was interesting. We were happy. We were happy to see our friends and family. My wife, I'm a little bit further along in my career. So I said, go ahead and look for a job that you love and I'll find something afterwards. And so she found a job that she was thrilled about. She's burn medicine and it's really hands on and she just absolutely loves it. So both of us were able to land jobs that we really enjoyed relatively quickly. And, you know, I had a dog that we really missed for the year. And so reuniting with Abby, my black lab, was incredible and connecting with some friends. But, yeah, it was definitely an adjustment. But then we were, we were also very excited to, you know, participate in the economy again and make more moves towards, you know, our financial freedom.
- [41:53]
A
Yeah, I love hearing that because it seems so hard. And I've talked to other people, none of whom have done anything like you've done. Like, we're just all looking at, like, what would that be like? And they all say, oh, I'm afraid I could never go back and yet even hearing you talk about it, I can kind of, like, feel some of that excitement of like, oh, yeah, you know, the are things that I would be happy to come back to, too, that you don't get to experience on the road.
- [42:20]
B
Yeah. And I do want to point out that traveling for that period of time, for a year or even several months, is exhausting. It's not all incredible. And it wasn't vacation. We intentionally didn't want to travel like tourists. We hoped to really connect with locals. And, you know, not that we didn't visit some of the beautiful tourist sites we did, but we wanted to really focus on integrating with the cultures where we were visiting. But even then, it's a lot of decision fatigue. Once you've decided, you know, 50 times, where are you going to stay and what are you going to eat? So many times it is exhausting. And. And so for that reason, I think we were happy to be done with the decision fatigue and to just have a place that we could call home and have some sense of normalcy.
- [43:10]
A
I'm glad you brought up the decision fatigue, because I wouldn't have thought of that. But even just thinking of, like, okay, I'm at my office right now, and when we're done chatting, I'm going to get on my bike and I'm going to do a path that I do all the time. And I'm not, unfortunately, maybe I'm not even going to notice the beautiful trip home because I know every turn, like, I'm not using any brain energy at all to get home. And so many of our decisions are kind of on that autopilot again. You know, there's good things and bad things about that, but it is really exhausting. I have to consciously think about, like, how I'm getting back to our accommodation. I have to think about what's for dinner in a different way because, you know, I can't always just find something at home. Right. There are so many things that become automatic at home. Yeah, I could see that. I could see that being a thing.
- [44:00]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I would say if anybody did want to travel for long periods of time, it's nice to take breaks and stay in one spot for at least a week or so. We didn't bounce around the way that we used to when we first started traveling, where, you know, you have a week and you go to Europe or two weeks in Europe and you go to five countries and you're like, what was I doing? I went way too fast. So we didn't do that. But also, we did spend sometimes two, three weeks in one place and that felt incredible. When you weren't, when you were used to bouncing around so much, it's nice to take a break and just stay put for a little bit.
- [44:35]
A
Yeah, I could see that. Was there anything that you had, like fears around going into this that you think about really differently now?
- [44:43]
B
I do. I did have fears and I do think about them differently. I would say it's interesting. So I didn't know what to expect. But even on the very first night, I won't forget this. I heard a lot of traffic outside and we were sleeping on a bed that was way smaller. I have a king size bed. And. And so while we were in Guatemala, our accommodations weren't incredible. And I'm just thinking to myself, what did I just do? You know, I left a very comfortable life that I love. It's not like we were running away from something that we hated. And so I just was concerned that I made a terrible decision. And then I think I was nervous about potential infection. You know, what if we get really sick while we're away? What if, you know, the money doesn't extend as far as we think it's going to? You know, all of those things cross the mind. But then as the trip went on, I think those quieted down and I realized a lot of those were irrational fears. And so I think that's one of the benefits of traveling, is that you really, you kind of get out of your head because you're exposed to so many new experiences. But I would say that unfortunately, now that I'm back, I think that some of those fears that I had before I left are probably returning a little bit. It's interesting. I think you forget different phases, different seasons of life, I guess teach you different lessons.
- [46:08]
A
Gotta just keep figuring it out.
- [46:11]
B
Let's do it.
- [46:11]
A
I know, unfortunately, there isn't a time when we're like, okay, I've got it. I've got it figured out now. Okay. You mentioned at the beginning of our conversation when I said, okay, how did you even know this was a thing? Or like, how did you get started? You mentioned that you had done some reading, you had listened to some podcasts. Can we like, close out on just sharing resources? I know that's something that I'm always interested in in terms of like, gosh, if I want to do something like he did, then I want to read the stuff that he read. What was most helpful in terms of preparing for something like this?
- [46:47]
B
I will do my best to recall So I really enjoyed from a travel perspective, Travel mindset, Ralph Potts. It's not as much strategy as just talking about the importance of travel, but I really like Ralph Potts.
- [47:02]
A
Is that a book? Is that a podcast?
- [47:03]
B
Oh, I'm sorry. Ralph Potts is the author, and I think the book is Vagabonding.
- [47:08]
A
Okay. All right.
- [47:09]
B
Have you heard of this book or.
- [47:10]
A
I have read that book, but I wasn't sure if that was correct. Yes, but it's like, it's a classic about sort of the value of traveling and very encouraging in terms of, like, you can do it. You don't have to be a rich person to do it.
- [47:23]
B
Yes. I would say other books, I don't know if I know the exact names, but if you were to look up things like a year around the world or a year trip, there are quite a few resources out there, and I don't think that there's one resource that is the best for anybody, but just getting exposure to a variety of them, looking at, you know, how did people choose to package and looking at five to 10 different lists and saying, let's take the best from all of that, that makes sense for us and do the same thing with destinations. How would we want to travel and break it up? So just chasing the sun was really helpful because we didn't have to pack any heavy clothes for heavy winters. We stayed in colder climates, so to speak, during their summer months, and we tried to stay in the dry season when we were in Southeast Asia or central South America. So you can learn how to do that just by looking it up. And then, of course, AI, we didn't have that when we were planning for this trip, or at least we weren't, you know, savvy with it. But that is an incredible resource, in my opinion, to get some insight.
- [48:31]
A
Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much.
- [48:34]
B
Yeah.
- [48:35]
A
For having this conversation. I really think, like, my head is just, like, buzzing with so many ideas, and I'm not someone who's like, oh, I'm about to go take off for a year. Right. But I think there's something for all of us to pull just from, like, watching someone do a big thing with courage. Right. There's so many places for people to enter your story and to think about their own lives. And so, like, I totally get. You did not have to come on, choose fi and talk to us about your story. And so I so appreciate that you made the time for that and you were willing to share with us.
- [49:08]
B
Well, thank you so much, Ginger. It's been a blast, and I love reliving these experiences and I hope that there's something valuable for the community. And we've learned so much from the community over the years, and so we're very grateful and hopefully we can give back a little bit.
- [49:24]
A
Great. You all know that we're doing this new thing on the Choose A5 platform where you can comment on the different episodes. If you have anything about doing a longer world travel trip that you want to share with us, we would love to hear it. I know that we all want to benefit from each other's experience and wisdom, so go find the comments and add to them and thank you all and we'll catch you next time.