← ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
Fit Rich Life | Justin David Carl | Episode 520
00:58:31
Justin David Carl shares his remarkable journey from being $80,000 in debt and working in Hollywood nightlife to achieving financial independence and impressive fitness goals. He discusses key principles that guided his transformation, including the...
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, and welcome to Choose Fi. Today on the show, we have my good friend Justin David Carl. He is the founder of Fit Rich Life, and he is really a jack of all trades. And I'm just so interested and intrigued by Justin's transformation that really has been over his entire adult life, both with money and with fitness, and that these principles translate actually from one to another. Justin has gone from working in the Hollywood nightlife business, throwing the hottest A list parties in Hollywood and struggling with addiction and other darkness, to Finding Fi and essentially supercharging his entire life. And it's really been a radical transformation. And I think you're both going to enjoy his story and the absolutely incredible, actionable takeaways that he has. This is going to be a really good one. And with that, welcome to choose that by Justin. It is so good to see you. This is awesome. We've caught up a couple times over the last couple years, but it's been a while.
- [01:09]
B
Yeah. It's such a pleasure to be on the show, Brad. I just have to take a moment to pay homage to Choose Fi because Choose Fi really played a massive role in my financial independence journey. It was literally the first financial independence podcast that I started listening to at the end of 2017, a few months or several months after you had started the show. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I found a podcast that is teaching me the fundamentals of financial independence. It's providing the energy and the inspiration to get going on this journey and stay on the journey. And literally every week, part of my, like, money makeover was making sure I was fully caught up on Choose Fi. So I just want to deeply thank you, Brad and Jonathan and everyone behind the Choose Fi podcast because it's just impacted my life in such a huge and incredible way that, like, I'm just so deeply and forever grateful for your show. So thank you for having me on. It's a true honor to be here.
- [02:15]
A
Wow, that is. That's really something. And, you know, it's amazing. I think, and I'm sure you find this, being a podcaster, like, you just don't know the ripple effect of talking into these microphones. And it really is. It's extraordinary. I think the reason why I do this is so that people can listen and get up off the couch and take action. Right? Like, that is the key to everything. And you talked about your money makeover, right. And, like, what got you started? So you found Choose a Pie somehow, like, what was the awakening moment, I guess.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah. So it kind of unfolded Over a few months. So at the time I discovered financial independence, it was towards the end of 2017. And at that time, I was actually $80,000 in debt and six years behind on my taxes. And like, really, my money and financial situation was a complete dumpster fire. And, you know, I've always been a similar to you, a big fan of Tim Ferriss. And I was listening to Tim Ferriss podcast, and he interviewed this guy, Mr. Money Mustache. And that was, like, my first introduction to what financial independence was. And it just, like, hit me like a freight train because I'd never heard someone talk about money in the way that he had. And I didn't do anything with it at that time. I was like, oh, that was a really interesting podcast. I was really intrigued. And then I kind of like, parked it in the back of my mind, this Mr. Money Mustache guy. And then fast forward, literally, probably four to six months later, I was finally cleaning up my taxes. And I was like, I need some inspiration to, like, clean this up. Because I was really scared. I was so deep and dead. I was so behind on my taxes. I felt like I could never crawl my way out of this hole. And I was like, I'm going to Google Mr. Money Mustache to, like, get some inspiration. And the first article I stumbled upon is the fateful one that changed many people's life, the shockingly simple math behind early retirement. And when I read that article, literally my mind was blown because I was like, oh, my God, if I had understood this in my 20s, like, I'd be a millionaire or multimillionaire by now. Because, like, earning money has never been a problem for me. It's the management and, like, investment of the money. I just, like, was a terrible steward of my money. So I started reading his article, and then I literally went on my podcast player on my phone, and I just was like, financial independence. And, like, choose Fi came up, and I was like, oh, there's a show about this. And so then I just, like, started binging the show like crazy. I would spend, like, you know, as many shows as I could get in in a day until I was completely, like, caught up. And then every week, I was, like, anticipating with excitement, like, the next episode to come out. And so that's kind of how I discovered it all. And that was, like, the beginning of my financial independence journey and what I like to call, like, my Fi awakening.
- [05:13]
A
Yeah, there's so much there. I mean, first, just like, you shockingly simple math behind early retirement, that was like, the lightning bolt, one of the Very few. The handful of like seminal moments from my financial life. There's just something really special about that article. And you know how you describe, like, it's such an interesting way, a terrible steward of my money. And I think a lot of people can relate to that, right? Like, especially like you said, hey, I never had trouble earning money. Like, there are plenty of people with nice six figure plus income, certainly combined incomes, who they don't have much to show for it. Right? And in your case, you had $80,000 of debt plus six years behind on taxes. Like, I mean, as a CPA, my brain wants to explode. But not here to castigate, obviously, just more to like, okay, actionable. Because I suspect there are some people listening to this who are actually behind on taxes. And I'd be curious your definition of that. Is it, hey, I literally didn't file the darn things or not pay. Like, where were you?
- [06:15]
B
So while I was working in the Hollywood nightclub business, I was like an independent contractor throwing these parties in Hollywood. And like, I just stopped filing my taxes. And then like one year I didn't file them because, like, here's the deeper backstory. My parents often were behind on their taxes and so I kind of inherited that same pattern. So one year turned into two years turned into three years, and then each year I didn't file it, it got scarier and scarier to even approach. And so I just decided to not deal with it and instead I would just suppress it with drug and alcohol use. I just, you know, like, I'm ashamed of my money situation. I'm shame that I stopped out of Stanford and didn't finish my childhood dream because how I got into Hollywood nightlife is I decided to take some time off to figure out what I wanted to do after college because I'd done some investment banking internships and I was just like, this is not what I want to do. So I had two quarters to go and I went to Stanford. I was like, hey, I'm going to take a year off and just, you know, deal with some family stuff and figure things out and then I'll come back. But then I fell into the world of Hollywood nightlife, started making really good money, got addicted to the lifestyle, you know, the power, the social power, you know, throwing parties where celebrities were coming and millionaires and billionaires and athletes and it was just so, so seductive. And then like, I had this dream of going to Stanford and graduating and I just like, as the years went by, I was like, I never finished that dream. And so instead of going back and dealing with that. I just would consume drugs and alcohol to suppress those emotions of feeling like I had left something really important undone. Similar to how that then translated into me leaving my taxes undone.
- [08:25]
A
Yeah. Oh my God. I've got like seven different lines of questioning that I, that I want to go down. But let's start with when I hear you describe it. It's like the shame spiral, right? It's like one kind of negative thing happened, right? Like I didn't file my taxes that one year and then it turned into two, it turned into three. Then you were ashamed of the debt, I was ashamed of my money. I stuck my head in the sand. I then started trying to paper over this with, like you said, drugs and alcohol. Like, it's that spiral of shame. And I know for a fact that there are definitely people listening to this that can relate to that. Like, you can keep digging. That's a very plausible alternative based on like your life, that sliding doors moment, like it could have went a lot of different ways. What do you think at like your lowest point was what helped you get out of that shame spiral?
- [09:18]
B
Yeah, so I've had this interesting habit in the few different careers that I've been in where I kind of would do an analysis. So when I was in investment banking, I looked to the people that were like 10 to 15 years ahead of me, asking myself, is that the life that I want? And in investment banking, it's crazy hours, you make insane amounts of money. But the people that were 10, 20 years ahead of me, they were overweight, they're like prematurely balding, they're just so stressed out, they weren't spending any time with their family. And so I was like, this is not the life path. Career I want to go down. There's a million ways to make money. I'll go figure something out. So I did the same thing when I was in the nightclub business. I did it kind of a qualitative analysis. And I looked at the people that were 5, 10, 15 years ahead of me. And I always knew that I wanted to be a great husband and live a life of well being. So even though I was drinking and partying, I was still very into like fitness. You know, working out six, seven days a week, eating chicken and broccoli six days a week, and then one cheat day. But basically all the men in the nightclub industry that were married and or had kids, they either got out of the business or they became terrible husbands and fathers because there's just too much temptation. There's Drugs, alcohol, girls, temptation. Temptation. I was like, I want to get married one day. Like, I have to get out of this. So I had that realization, like, literally probably within the first two years. And I also reflected on myself and I was like, I'm literally becoming like 5 to 10% worse of a person per year. And if I span this out over 20 years, I'm going to be a terrible, terrible person.
- [11:19]
A
Yeah, it's going to come negatively pretty quick.
- [11:22]
B
Exactly. And so the first step for me, and I was so addicted to the money, the lifestyle, the social power, etc. That it took me a long time. And it wasn't until really about the seventh year that I was like, I need to get out of this before it's too late. And so the very first step was I stopped smoking marijuana because I was smoking marijuana every single day. And marijuana kept me just comfortable enough not to make a change.
- [11:51]
A
Gotcha.
- [11:51]
B
And so when I stopped smoking marijuana, I fell into, like, four months of, like, suicidal depression. So basically, all that stuff I had been suppressing for like, five, six, seven years started to come up. And Carl Jung, you know, one of the fathers of psychology, he has this great quote where he says, depression is Mother Nature's way of resetting the psyche. So I literally feel like that four months of deep depression was like my psyche was literally rebooting because I had to process all that shame and guilt around my money, around leaving Stanford unfinished. And so I had to go through that. But then on the other side of that four months, I was like, I need to see if I can go back to Stanford and complete that childhood dream, because there's such huge power in completion. You know, that's one of my firm beliefs, is if you have something that's, like, left undone and it's really important, it's really hard to move forward in life until you go and complete that. So I was super scared, but I was like, let me just call Stanford and see if I can come back. And got on the phone with them, was like, hey, I've been gone for about seven years. I'm thinking of coming back. Is there any chance I can come back? And I was like, sure. They were going to say, no way, it's been way too long. But they're like, yeah, absolutely. We have people that have been gone for a quarter and people that have been gone for 20 years coming back next quarter. So we would love to have you back. Like, you just have to fill out this simple form and, like, talk to an admissions person and we can totally make this happen. I was just like, oh my God. So I'm not even like in the middle of the pack. I'm not the person who's been gone the longest. There was like people like 15, 20 years coming back. And so I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to do next, like after the Hollywood nightclub business, but I know that if I go back to Stanford and I put myself in an environment where I'm round, you know, the brightest people that I've ever been around, the people that like, have great hearts up to beautiful things in this world, I'll figure it out. And that process is like, how I started to turn my life around.
- [14:05]
A
Yeah, that's really something. I love how you first started with like, the intellectual side of it, right? Like, and I feared that that was the answer you're going to, going to give me. And that was the end of it. Like, I looked at the other people around me and I didn't want to, like, which is actually a really wonderful takeaway, frankly, in and of itself for a lot of people, right? Which is, hey, that's a cool exercise. Whatever career you're in now, maybe look at those people who are 5, 10, 15 years ahead of you and say, is that what I want my life to look like? And if it's distinctly not, then that might be one of those shocking moments where you wake up and say, I need an off ramp for this. Right? Like, it doesn't have to be tomorrow, it doesn't have to be even six months from now. But I need a plan because there's a strong likelihood that that's going to be where I end up. So I love that. But then, like you said, while nobody wants to experience four months of depression, like, as a general fact, it sounds like that was that emotional reckoning that you really needed to change everything and realize just how deep you had dug your life and your money at that point ultimately, right?
- [15:17]
B
100%, yeah. And I'll make one kind of powerful connection that I think would be valuable for the audience. So I knew I wanted to go Stanford from about, like, third or fourth grade. And I would literally ask my. So my dad went to Stanford and I was, you know, inspired to go to Stanford. So I literally based every decision from, like, I don't know, 4th or 5th grade through 12th grade on whether or not this would help me get into Stanford or hinder me. So every major decision, like, do I join this extracurricular activity or do I do this or that. And I would Run it through that filter. And so my senior year, I applied to Stanford, and I got on the wait list, but I didn't get in. And then they only let in eight people off the waitlist that year, and I think I was like, number 16, so I didn't get in. So I've been working on this goal for, like, seven years, and I missed it. I was like, almost, but not quite good enough.
- [16:15]
A
So close. Oh, my God.
- [16:17]
B
Yeah. So that was kind of like my first massive failure and setback and probably kind of put me into a bit of a depression. And, you know, after I had been moping around for a couple weeks trying to figure out what I was going to do next, my mom came to me and she said, justin, you can let this break you or you can let it make you, and the choice is yours. And that hit me like a lightning bolt. And I was like, I'm going to make this make me. So I'm going to take a gap year. I'm going to apply again, early decision, and I'm going to try again. And so I redid my SATs, got all new letters of recommendation, rewrote all my essays. I literally poured my heart into my essays to the point I still distinctly remember crying. Why I'm writing them because I'm pouring so much emotion into them about some of the, like, things I went through. And in the end, Stanford actually called me, and they normally just send you a letter, but they called me and they said, hey, Justin, we just want to let you know that your application was one of the best applications we received this year. Welcome to Stanford. And I was just like, I start crying, jumping, hooting, and hollering. And so for me, that was like that first hit. The connection I'm making, it's never too late to try again. It doesn't matter if you fail or you dig yourself in a hole. You get to decide, is this experience going to break me or is it going to make me into something even more powerful or inspiring or, you know, the next evolution?
- [18:02]
A
Wow. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, let's be clear. And what's so interesting is that if you were close enough, and I know you won't say this, so I'll say it for you. If you were close enough that you were even waitlisted at Stanford, it means you were an extraordinary student. Right? Like, anyone who understands the elite college game knows the acceptance rate at schools of that absolute echelon and just how difficult it is to even get on the waitlist. So somebody like that Justin could have very easily said, well, I'm fantastic. Screw these guys, right? Like, I'm nearly the valedictorian or thereabouts. My SAT scores were this. Like, I can go just about anywhere. Screw Stanford. That would have been a very plausible outcome, frankly. But then your mom comes in and says, you can let this break you or you can let it make you. The choice is yours. I mean, I'm getting chills just hearing that. And then that you redouble your efforts. Cause there's the fixed mindset versus growth mindset. It would be very easy for, again, student X, who was smart enough and did well enough to get wait listed at Stanford, which means you have a shot to get into any of the elite schools, because once you get to that level, it's essentially a crapshoot. But you were at that echelon to then go back and put in all that work. Like, it would have been easy to just take the fixed mindset. Oh, I'm smart. I'm going to do whatever I want. Or you can take the growth mindset version. And I mean, that in and of itself says so much about you as a person. I can't even tell you. Like, and I hope, I hope people both a, understand that just about you generally, but more so about, hey, this podcast is about action and takeaways. So if you ever have something in your brain of I am X, I am smart, I am good at Y, I'm whatever, you have actually limited yourself because you're not going to do what it takes to get better. And I mean, frankly, Justin, like, I put myself in that fixed mindset when I was circa high school. Like, I thought of myself as really, really smart. And like, I'm not sure that I challenged myself as much as I could have. And I do regret that, frankly. So, like, I would love for everybody to take away that. Like, whenever you find that, whenever you come up against, like, I am X and like, you trying to, like, make yourself feel better about yourself, that's a point. You should wake up and say, oh, there's something here I need to investigate. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I know I talked for a minute there, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on growth versus fixed.
- [20:38]
B
Yeah, so I'm a huge fan of growth mindset by Carol Dweck. I'm pretty sure she's part of Stanford alumni. So, yeah, I got really lucky in that. My parents always, they, they told me I was smart and capable, but they also just instilled in Me this, like, idea that no matter what, if I just kept working at it, I could figure it out, I could overcome it. So, you know, I always considered myself, like, smarter than average, but not necessarily the smartest person in the room. But I knew that I was likely the most driven person in the room. And so that would push me to do whatever it would take to, you know, perform at the highest level in whatever I was going at. So if that meant studying harder, studying smarter, you know, practicing soccer in between practices, because I, you know, I played soccer growing up, you know, I did whatever it takes. And that belief has served me so many times, because when I have failed, it's not like, oh, I guess I'm just not smart at this. It's like, no, if I put in the effort, if I study, if I apply, if I learn by doing, which is another really important thing to me is like, you can read all the books in the world, but until you get out there and do it, you have to pair both learning with doing. Because then the doing teaches you new stuff, which then unlocks more of the learning. And it's this iterative process where you learn, you do, you learn, you do. And, like, that feedback loop can then be supercharged by then having, like, a mentor or a coach. Right. So that's like another form of learning. And growth is like having that outside person spur you on. Right. And so, like, I consider myself so lucky that I had a mom who had the wisdom to say that to me instead of like, oh, it's okay. You can just go to another school. Like, they're all the same. But she was like, no, Justin, that's your dream. Do you still want it? And I was like, heck, yeah, I want it. And cool, if I try again, I don't get in. At least I tried. So, huge fan of the growth mindset. And that's why I think for anybody, no matter where they're at in life, with their fitness, with their money, with their relationship, any aspect of your life, if you're not at the level that you want to be or you've had a major setback, if you approach it with that growth mindset, like, the more effort, the more strategic effort, action, learning that you apply to it, you can overcome just about anything, within reason, of course.
- [23:21]
A
Right, right, right. Yeah, wholeheartedly agreed. And, yeah, we'll link up to that book in the show notes. So it's Mindset, the New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck. And, yeah, I mean, I think that would be a good takeaway For, I mean, really for anyone listening, but especially parents, is don't praise fixed things. Don't praise, oh, you're so smart. Because then that limits them, right? So, hey, I think of myself now as smart. I've been told for my entire life I'm smart. So how do I prove that I'm smart? I get A's, so how do I do that? I don't take the hardest classes, I limit myself. That's how that kind of mindset works. As opposed to praising hard work and effort, which it's kind of like the systems versus goals kind of thing, when you praise the system and the inputs, well, you'll be shocked at the outputs when compounded down the road. But if you just base it on, hey, this is my one finite goal. Well, what do you do when you hit that goal? Yeah, right. Like even up to the Olympic medalist. We've talked about this a number of times here on the podcast. Like, hey, my goal is to win an Olympic gold medal. Okay, well, you did. What the heck do you do now? You've built your entire life around that goal as opposed to a system of. Right. Like, I mean, Justin, you live and breathe this kind of stuff.
- [24:38]
B
Yeah. The reason I'm laughing is because what do you do when you hit financial independence? Right? And for some people, that's a 10, 15, 20 plus year goal. And then they get there and then they're like, okay, now what? And so this is why I think mindset and seeing life as this never ending, like, journey of learning, healing, growth, transformation and transcendence to the next level in so many different areas of your life. Right? And when you approach it with that like exploration, growth, mindset, it's like you're on this never ending adventure. So you achieve financial independence, then it's like, okay, cool, Like I've accumulated this massive money making machine that can like support me now. How am I going to bring, you know, positive impact to other people, to the world? And I think that's really important for people to think about as they're going through the financial independence journey. Because I think a lot of people, that's their overarching goal. They get there and then they're like, I don't know what the heck to do with my life. And they kind of get stuck in this weird like, okay, what am I doing now? Who am I now that I've achieved this? Like, now that I no longer have this job or this big goal. And so, you know, whether it's the Olympic gold medal or achieving financial independence, it's like really just embracing the journey of life.
- [26:05]
A
Yeah. Thanks for listening to Choose a Five and for all your support of our mission here. The absolute best way to support Choose a Buy is when you sign up for your next rewards credit card to use our cards page at Choose. If I Do cards, I keep this page constantly updated, so it should always be the top resource for you. Thanks for being part of our community and for your support. Yeah, I love that you brought that up because I would have never thought about it in that sense. But it's also an interesting wrinkle where systems versus goals when you're talking about Fi. Right. Because as you're describing it in kind of like the negative regard. Beautifully so that even though it's a, like you said, 10, 15, 20 years, it still is that finite goal if that's it. If it's just hitting a number on a piece of paper. So you could kind of delude yourself into believing it's a system because it's a longer period of time. But if it's just about reaching that number on a spreadsheet, let's be clear, that's just a goal. And then what do you do that next day? Right? Which is why, like, you and I and people like us spend so much time trying to think about life. Right? And the intersection of how does life play into, hey, we get, if we're lucky, nine decades on this planet. Right. And to wish away any period of it, even to do something amazing like reach Fi and then have nothing on the other side like that seems like the biggest cosmic waste of time and energy that I could imagine. Like, you need to put in the time and the thought of what is life going to look like on the other side? And I think something you said earlier was it's never too late to radically transform. Right. And. And you talk specifically about your money, your health and your fitness. And I'd love to kind of take us into that because I suspect that there are many people listening to this who believe it's too late for them, at least in one of those three areas. And you speak so beautifully and eloquently about the intersection of these and how a lot of, like, what you can take from being good at one or getting good, not being good, but getting good at one can really play into the other aspects as well. So let's, let's move there. I'd love to hear just kind of your overview thoughts of that.
- [28:23]
B
Yeah, so I'll back into it with a little bit of, like, storytelling about my own journey. So I like to say that up until about 31, 32, I was kind of fit, kind of fat. So like, no one would say I was overweight or anything, but I, you know, I had enough fluff that the abs were not showing. And I was one of those people who tried every diet, tried every workout, you know, took all the supplements. Like, you know, I was working out seven days a week for two to three hours a day. And I was like, still not achieving the level of fitness that I wanted to achieve. And so as kind of a last ditch effort, I was like, well, let me try working with a fitness coach. And basically I hired an online coach and working with him in six months, I dropped 30 pounds of body fat and went from around 18 body fat to like sub 10% in six months. And I was like, what the heck? Like, I've been working on this for like 15 plus years. Like, why did I wait so long to work with a fitness coach? So that was like my fitness transformation. You know, I had always been active and working out, but I didn't get to the level that I've been at for the last 10 years up until working with a coach. And I know you guys say it on the show, but like, you don't know what you don't know until you know it, right? And it's like there's just these little pieces in the fitness journey. You know. One of the things I have, like kind of an how fitness and money and wealth are related is most people radically underestimate how much they eat. And they've done studies on this by 50%. 55, 0. They've done tons of like double blind studies on this. People literally underestimate by 50%. And people also underestimate how much they're spending. So this is why most people, like, I think the average savings rate in America is like 5%. But then there's a huge percentage of people that are in massive debt, myself included, at one point in my life. So we underestimate our spending, underestimate our eating, and the two of those have huge impacts on our fitness and our money. So as I discovered financial independence, you know what I started with my fitness is my fitness coach. He had me start to track my nutrition in addition to my workouts. And what we discovered, and I mentioned this earlier in the podcast, is I would eat perfectly, like awesome six days a week, dead serious, like chicken and broccoli for every meal. And then I'd have this cheat meal or, excuse me, cheat day on Sunday. And when I Tracked it. I was eating anywhere between 5,000 and 10,000 calories a day. So no wonder I wasn't getting the abs that I want, because I was putting myself in a caloric surplus. You have to put yourself in a caloric deficit to lose body fat. So each year, that's why I was getting a little bit fatter. You know, I was trying to outwork my diet, but I couldn't. So then pairing this with my financial independence journey, as I discovered choose a five, Mr. Money Mustache, I started tracking my spending and my earning. So, like, just like I was tracking my food, I was tracking my expenses and my earnings. And so then I started to realize, wait a minute, if I can get my savings rate up to, like, 80 or 90%, I can totally turn my entire life around, because it's just like math. Okay, cool. Well, and this is where the growth mindset ties in. I was like, I'm going to have as much fun and feel as free as possible while going down this fi journey. I'm just going to make it a big game, and I'm going to, like, have a ton of fun. And I had so much fun on my fi journey getting to financial independence. And so basically, as I started tracking that golden metric of the savings rate. So for me, that was my golden metric because I knew the higher I got that, the faster I was moving towards financial independence. And in my fitness, what I learned is in order to get the body physique the look that I wanted, I had to get my body fat percentage to a certain number. And so my body fat percentage became my golden metric for my fitness journey, and the savings rate became my golden metric for my money journey. And so I think of them as the inverse of each other. So the higher your savings rate, the more financially jacked you're getting, and the lower your body fat, the more physically jacked you look. Within reason. You got to actually build some muscle, of course, too, but that's a nuance. So, you know, as I was tracking my expenses, tracking my nutrition, these happen at two different periods. So I did the fitness thing around 31, 32, and then I did the money thing around 34, 35. And so I literally, in two years, went from $80,000 in debt to becoming a millionaire in two years. And then by year three, I was a multimillionaire because I got my savings rate up to, like, 90% plus. And I kept it there for, like, two to three years.
- [33:54]
A
Wow. Oh, my God. So, okay, yeah, there's a ton there. Clearly you were making A significant income. Obviously nobody can just turn to a millionaire from negative 80k in two years. But let's be clear. And I don't want, I think a lot of times another limiting belief in life is, oh, that's easy for them, right? Like, and I hate that mindset. And I think it's just so destructive in general. Like, oh, because of this, whatever it is, you can fill in any blank. It was easier for them. Well, Justin just spent the last 40 minutes talking about everything he overcame and the. The periods of darkness and the addiction. Like, just because you're making a lot of money does not mean your life is unicorns and rainbows. Let's be clear. Now, that said, once you get on track, it is a whole hell of a lot easier, right? Like, neither of us would deny that it is clearly easier. But very clearly you were making a lot of money prior to this awakening, and you were spending more than all of it since you were in debt. So I just fear that people hear that and say, oh, this was easy for him, and turn off the episode. Like, that's not the takeaway. The takeaway is sometimes that awakening is essential. And like you said, the biggest takeaway is the tracking. And I mean, Justin, I've found this in the last year and change of my own fitness journey. I'm still working my way down in body fat. And I'm not, like, fanatical about it, but I am definitely working down to a point where I'll probably touch sub 10% in the. Maybe the next three to four months or thereabouts. I feel like the tracking, it's not that that in and of itself is like the Shangri La. And that's like, I'm gonna consider myself super fit just because I hit some random number, but it's the tracking and it's. For me, it's proving to myself that I can do it. I think, to be perfectly honest, like, that's. There's a big part of that, but I mean, I can corroborate that 50% over or thereabouts. Like, I gotta tell you, like, my biggest thing was something that was ostensibly a health food, or people delude you into believing as a health food was peanut butter. Dude, I must have eaten a thousand calories a day of peanut butter, just like grazing a spoonful here and there, thinking that it was high protein food. And, like, you're laughing uncontrollably because you know exactly what I'm talking about. Like, peanut butter is probably the worst bang for the buck in terms of Protein.
- [36:20]
B
What do you think I was eating on my cheat day? I would eat an entire, like, bottle of almond butter. You know, they had that one that was, like, hazelnut chocolate. And I would, like, eat the whole thing. And that's, like, 3,4000 calories right there.
- [36:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, but it's protein is what people say.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah, but I want to. There's a couple things I just want to, like, help pull out for the audience. So in my first, like, year or two of Hollywood nightlife, I wasn't making that much money. But later, I started to make somewhere between called 150 and 300,000. But I was driving the Range Rover and eating out every day and living in the fancy condo. So I was, like, spending 110 to 130% of the money that I was making. And when I transitioned, went back to Stanford, you know, I ended up actually becoming a founding team member of a startup. And I got into, like, enterprise B2B sales. And you can make a lot of money in enterprise B2B sales. But in the beginning, I wasn't making that much. I was making, like, somewhere between, like, you know, the first two, three years, like, call it 75 to 150, kind of depending on the commissions. But I ended up working with some career coaches. And again, it's like, you don't know what's possible, and you don't know how to get there until, like, either you luckily figure it out or someone shows you the way. So my fitness coach, he showed me, like, dude, track your nutrition. Follow an actual workout program. Hit these macros, get this much protein, Take advantage of progressive overload. And he gave me that plan. And in six months, I was like, whoa, I've never been so jacked in my life. And then when I was working with these career coaches, kind of at the beginning of my fi journey, they're like, justin, in the Bay Area, in enterprise sales, you can make 500 to a million dollars a year. And I was like, at the time, you know, making 100, 150. And I was like, what? Like, you can. And they're like, absolutely, like, you know what I mean? That's what I made. I have a bunch of friends who make that. Da, da, da. And they're like, you have the skill set. You have the charisma. You had the experience. You can do this, Justin. And, like, we'll show you how. We'll, like, show you how to negotiate your employee agreement to make sure that you're getting commissions that will be uncapped so that you can get to this rate. And basically after working with them, I went from like 150,000 a year, then like making over 400,000 a year, to then making over 700,000 a year, then to like, my peak year, I made almost $900,000 in a year. And this coincided, those three years coincided with my discovery of financial independence. So that Range Rover that I had, even though I was making more and more money, I was like, I did analysis, realized that I'd spent $7,200 on repairs and maintenance in two years on that Range Rover. And I was like, screw this. And I sold it, got a Prius, and instead of moving into the fancy home, I stayed in the like crappy two bedroom house that I was renting as a student who was returning to finish up at Stanford. So I stayed there for an additional, call it, three to five years after discovering financial independence so that I could keep my costs as low as possible. So I'd optimize my housing, I'd optimized my car expense. And then I also, I decided, like, I'm just not going to eat out anymore for the foreseeable future. So I literally, like, didn't go out or pay for a restaurant meal for like two years. And this is when I'm making like multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was like, no, my highest excitement is my savings rate and investing like a beast. And so that's why, like, I think it's so important to have mentors, coaches, people who can show you what's possible. And like, my kind of current thing for myself, this is like, my rule is if I've been talking about something, thinking about something, or saying I'm going to do something or trying something for like three to six months and I haven't got traction, the problem is me. And that's when I need to hire a professional to help me get out of that. So I actually did that with my podcast. I talked about having a podcast for literally probably eight to 10 years. And like, I'm a smart person, I can figure out how to do podcasts. But there was something holding me back. And I worked with this EFT coach, which is Emotional Freedom Technique. It's a type of somatic therapy. And I hired him to literally just hold me accountable to working through whatever was holding me back from launching my own podcast. And, you know, part of EFT is releasing like childhood trauma. And so my parents separated because of money. You know, we were kind of like lower middle income. I was on the free lunch program and basically working with Him, I uncovered this subconscious, limiting belief that I was completely unaware of. And that subconscious, limiting belief, it sounds crazy when I say it out loud because it doesn't make any sense. But most subconscious, limiting beliefs, when you say them out loud, they actually don't make any sense at this point in your life. But that subconscious belief that I discovered was if I start a podcast where I talk about my success and I talk about financial independence and, you know, money and stuff, my parents won't love me because I am so much more successful than them, which is, like, crazy. And maybe some people have parents who, like, if you become more successful, they won't love you. But, like, with that coach, I was like, oh, my God, I didn't even know that was there. So I was scared. There was something inside of me that I was unaware of that was holding me back from actually following through on getting this podcast out in the world. And then basically, I went. I had a very, like, awesome healing conversation with both my parents, and they're like, we want you to, like, share your success with the world. We want you to empower other people on their money journey, on their fitness journey. Like, go do it. And removing that limiting belief was, like, what I had to remove in order to take that next step in my life. And so the point that I'm making is if you're not getting traction in a certain area of your life and you've been talking about it, thinking about it, maybe even taking action, but not getting any traction for three to six months, then get help. Whether it's a coach, a mentor, some sort of outside thing that's going to hold you accountable to, like, stepping up and through to that next iteration, the next evolution that's going to empower you to do whatever inner work, healing that you need to do to get out of your own way. Like, please do that. And there's no right or wrong way to do it. Some people can read a book and have a transformation, but, like, I know tons of people who read lots of books, and they're in the same exact place that they were two, three, four, five, ten years ago.
- [43:20]
A
Yeah, that's for damn sure. And, yeah, I mean, that's why I focused so specifically on this podcast on actionable takeaways. Right. Because I don't want people passively taking this in. We're all wasting our time, us creating this and you listening to this if you're not taking something away from it and implementing it in your life. Right. And one of the interesting through lines of your story is this. Hiring coaches. I think, frankly, a lot of people in the FI community, and I hate painting these broad brushes, but I feel like this is fair. Like, we're DIYers, right? Like, we pride ourselves on being DIYers. And I think it's just, like, in a lot of cases, it's just, like the epitome of Pennywise pound foolish, right? Like, I can figure this out myself. Like, I. There's YouTube and there's podcasts, and I can figure it out. But, like, that's all well and good. Yeah, I mean, you probably can. You know, let's be clear. You probably can. But, Justin, like you said, maybe three to six months. That's a pretty good back of the envelope of, like, hey, if you've been talking about something for that long and you actually want to do it because you need to be honest with yourself, right? Like, there. There's a lot of ways that we can delude ourselves, but if you genuinely want something and there's just something, some little block holding you back, maybe it is time to start investigating hiring someone. And, Justin, like you said, there are coaches of all stripes and sizes and types and costs and whatever, right?
- [44:47]
B
Yep, 100%. And that's why I think three to six months is a good rule of thumb, because it's like, yeah, try to do it on your own 100%. Like, it's awesome to figure out things on your own. And like many of the people listening to this, you have made significant progress on your financial independence journey. But what about another part of your life? Maybe that's your relationship. Maybe that's your fitness. Maybe that's. I don't know, the side hustle that you want to start because, like, you hate your job, but it's powering you to financial independence, so it doesn't matter. Like, me and my wife has worked with relationship coaches. Literally, part of our vows, this is how committed we are to transformation, is that we're always doing the work individually and collectively. So that means that we are either getting coaching, getting therapy, or taking a course or doing some sort of thing that's growing us in the areas that we need to grow, whether that's our relationship, whether that's our mental health, whether that's our physical health. And so just having that commitment to growth. And this is like, kind of the. Part of the theme of this episode is that growth mindset is committing to the growth journey. And I'm all for do it yourself, like diy, but, like, if you're not getting that traction, right, because the Thing to me is, at the end of your life, if you're like, oh, what if I'd actually done that thing that I had been talking about and thinking about for decades, would I have been, like, at the end of my life, so much happier with my life versus I never really tried to do what I wanted and, like, therefore, I have some regrets at the end of my life?
- [46:27]
A
Yeah, that's a good way of framing a lot of these. These decisions that we make. Right. It's like, I think you really focus on what's important in life when you actually do that. I mean, that's an interesting exercise that I think a lot of people might be a little scared of. Right. Is like that deathbed test. But that can be really powerful. Like, incredibly, incredibly powerful. And, Justin, I wanted to just kind of pivot back just real quick to the fitness side. So I want everybody to be clear that we're. We're not talking about, like, being crazy hardcore and starving yourself and just worried about numbers. Like, that is not what either of us believe or espouse in any way, shape, or form. I think fitness and certainly body weight can be fraught with peril sometimes. So we are not talking as medical advisors here in any way, shape, or form, but just two guys who have kind of really been on a journey. And I think it is very fair to say that in my own experience, tracking is everything in three different ways. So it's tracking my workouts, because otherwise you just show up and you just do random stuff and it's suboptimal, and you just kind of leave before you get a decent workout in. It's tracking my calories and my protein. So that's kind of the second leg of the stool and tracking my steps, which is really, frankly, just a proxy for movement. There's nothing inherent about walking per se. It's just, if we're honest with ourselves, I think most people, most Americans, if I had to hazard a guess, take well, less than 4,000 steps a day. I think without going out of your way. That's kind of like a natural cap for most people just being around the house. And I know it sounds like a crazy low number, but, I mean, I tracked it for a while, and I'm like, I consider myself a really active and fit guy. And without taking concerted walks, I was under. Definitely under 5,000 steps almost every single day. I mean, Justin, I kid you not, every single day. So there's Nothing magical about 10,000 steps per se. You'll hear that number thrown around a lot but it's directionally accurate for, oh man, I had to go from my normal three to 5,000 steps today to 10,000. That means I had to take a 45 minute walk or two 25 minute walks, whatever it is. Like, I had to actually get out and do that, put on my shoes and go take a 25 minute walk in the morning and in the afternoon. Like, that's a big deal. And when you do that, day after day, week after week, year after year, good things are going to happen 100%.
- [49:07]
B
So two things. One, what gets measured gets managed, empowered and manifested. So I'm a firm believer in, like, if you want to make a transformation in a particular area of your life, track it. You can't track everything in life. I mean, we're getting more and more tools. Like, I wear multiple trackers and I track a lot of things. But, like, you can't track everything in your life. But for the areas of your life that you want to transform, you have to start to track, like, the golden metrics, you know, the activities and the results that are going to move you towards your goals. And this is like circling back to the whole idea of, like, systems. So, like, what is the system and what are the activities or things that you need to track to achieve that goal? And you build that system. And so with fitness, like everyone here who's on the financial independence journey, without a doubt, almost every single person who achieves financial independence, they tracked their money. Like there are some lucky people win the lotto, or they just earn so much freaking money and they are like, naturally frugal that they don't track. But like, I would argue 95% of people who achieve financial independence did it through tracking their expenses and their income, right? And so if you want to move the needle in your fitness, you gotta track something, right? Like Brad said, track your nutrition, track your macros, track your workouts. So Brad, you're a hundred percent right. I've done research on this. The average American takes three to 4,000 steps a day. Three to 4,000, which is like, yeah, you totally nailed it. And so one of my, like, secret strategies is like, I get 10 to 20,000 steps a day, and I often average 15 to 20,000. But I do that because I've intentionally set a goal of getting 10 to 20,000. And I have built these little systems into my life. So, for example, I have an adjustable desk and I have a bike chair. So I literally take my tracker off my wrist and I put it on my ankle and I track my steps and so I can just get an extra 5 to 10,000 steps while I'm working on emails, working on work, doing whatever. It's just an easy way for me to be significantly more fit than the average person because I've built these little systems into my life including like also going for like, you know, short walks like throughout the day. And so I just think, you know, it's so powerful to track things and just pick an area of your life that you want to improve, figure out what are the like metrics that you should be tracking. And so for me like one of my long term goals was to like have that physique, that six pack, et cetera. That's why I started tracking my body fat. So I use a within scale. It's just like an at home scale costs like seventy to a hundred bucks on Amazon depending on if it's on sale or not and it can give you a body fat reading. Now the accuracy of it is different for everybody because you have different physiology. But I've compared it, I've gone and got a DEXA scan which is very accurate. And for me a within scale is within 1% of my true body fat according to ADEXA. So for me, I don't really care what the within scale says as long as I'm trending in the direction that I want to go. And that feedback loop of stepping on the scale each day, seeing what my body fat is, is like, okay, cool, am I trending over 10% and I need to dial my nutrition back in or am I like trending in the direction that I want to go? So like, cool, keep doing what you're doing, keep getting the 10 to 20,000 steps, keep hitting your macros, you're going good. And it's that system that keeps me like super fit year round and has for the last 10 years.
- [52:56]
A
Yeah, the system, right. Like it is all about that system. And again, what's cool about this is Justin, they're probably those crazy people who are like, oh, being on that bike, that's not a real step, but that is missing the whole freaking point a hundred percent.
- [53:13]
B
So it radically increases my NEAT non exercise activity thermogenesis. So like maybe it doesn't burn quite as much calories as like physically walking, but if my NEAT is call it like 30, 50% higher because I spent 90 minutes pedaling on average, I'm going to be significantly more fit than other people just because my NEAT NEAT is so much higher. And like, you know, as a fitness coach, all the people I know who are super fit, they just move so much more than normal people. Like, they literally all get like 10 to 20,000 steps. Like, without a doubt, they just do stuff. They live a lifestyle of fitness, right? And so I think just like you live a lifestyle of financial independence, you can also live a lifestyle of fitness. And the two can go together beautifully. Because, like, as we've talked throughout the show, the principles translate so easily. Like, if you've mastered your money or you're on an incredible upward journey of getting to financial independence, just take those same principles of tracking your expenses, tracking your income, targeting that good savings rate, and then start tracking your nutrition, tracking your workouts, tracking your body fat. And like, I'm so passionate about this stuff. Like, I have a free four day workout program. So, like, if you're not actually following a workout program, like you need to follow an actual workout program or you're just going to look exactly the same or worse like a year from now. So you can go to fitrichlifecoaching.com workout to get that. And then the other thing, because it was such a huge critical part of my money journey was tracking my savings rate. So I have a free savings rate money tracker that you can download@fitrich life coaching.com tracker. And like, if you need some systems, boom, two free systems you can implement to start to radically transform your fitness and your wealth.
- [55:09]
A
Yeah, Justin, that's awesome. And we will definitely put those two links in our show notes. So if anybody wants, obviously. It's funny, I listen so avidly to podcast, Justin, as you certainly do. And I realized that a lot of people don't check the show notes or don't even realize they can find them in their podcast player. They don't have to like, go to our website. Like, that's an easy way to do it. But like, it's just on your podcast player. So, like, whenever you hear somebody talk about go to the show notes, like, it actually really does help because you don't have to remember that URL. You can just click on the link. So that's just my podcasting public service announcement of the day. But that kind of feels like a really good spot to end this. But I'd love to hear, do you have any final thoughts, any way to.
- [55:52]
B
Encapsulate this 100% to kind of illustrate the theme of this podcast episode, which has really been about this, like, growth mindset? I have these three principles for continuous growth, and it's just something I keep in my mind. And if you reflect on kind of the journey that I've shared with you, you'll be like, oh, this makes so much sense. And if you just listen to it and think about it, you're like, oh, of course. And some of these, you know. But the first principle is you are the average of the 5 to 10, 20 people you spend the most time and energy with. And these people, you can spend time with them. Like me and Brad are connecting right now, like, virtually. You don't have to be in person with them, but do you interact with them, you know, through social media, through phone calls, through dms, et cetera. So that's principle one. The second principle is you are a product of your environment. So this includes where you spend your time physically, you know, your workplace, where you live, offline communities as well as online communities. So this is why, like, in order to transform my life and create growth, I got out of Hollywood and I went back to Stanford. And that, like, was a radical transformation. But, like, you don't have to, like, leave a city. You could literally, like, change jobs. You could join a CrossFit gym. Like, you could literally just change your environment in so many different ways. So you are a product of your environment is the second principle. And the third principle is you are what you consume. And this includes not only food, but as well as information, social media, podcasts, books, television, movies, music, etc. So if you take those three principles, you're the average. Call it the five people you spend the most time and energy with. You are a product of your environment and you are what you consume and you optimize those for growth. You can't help but go through exponential growth in your own life.
- [57:43]
A
That is the perfect way to leave this. Justin, I absolutely love it. Like you said, you have those two resources. We'll link that up in the show notes. People can find you both through fitrich life coaching.com and also you have fit rich life.com where people can find your podcasts and newsletter. The podcast is great, it's just no surprise called Fit Rich Life. And yeah, anywhere else you want to send people or is that that pretty sufficient?
- [58:08]
B
Yeah, most active on Instagram, so @justindavidcarl on Instagram. But really, like, I'm on all the socials, it's Justin DavidCarl everywhere, Twitter, X threads, etc. So, yeah, thank you so much, Brad, for having me on the show. Like, truly, this show has been a fundamental piece of my fi awakening and fi journey. So it's truly been an honor to be here with you today.
- [58:33]
A
Yeah, that's amazing. And thanks for obviously you being part of our community. I know you were extremely integral in the Choose a Phi Stanford Bay Area group. And yeah, that is what this is all about, right? It's about us listening. It's about us taking this in. It's about us taking action and being part of the community. So a big thank you.
- [58:53]
C
Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the Choose a 5 community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player. Just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning. So just head over to choosefy.com subscribe and it's really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there and I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox.
- [59:29]
A
So that's the way that I keep.
- [59:30]
C
A pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a vi local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to choose a vi.com local and you'll find a list of all of Those cities in 20 plus countries.
- [59:50]
A
All across the world.
- [59:52]
C
And if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or a friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways choose a VI episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. And even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up and it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence. What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then choose a VI created a Financial Independence 101 course that's entirely free. Just head to choose a five.com fi101 and again, thanks for listening.