ChooseFI Podcast Episode 560 Summary

Title: Living Off the 4% Rule | Marla Taner
Release Date: August 18, 2025
Hosts: Brad & Jonathan
Guest: Marla Taner

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the realities and psychology of reaching Financial Independence (FI) and living off the 4% rule, featuring the lived experience of Marla Taner—a long-term member of the FI community who retired in 2013. Brad and Marla analyze not only the mechanics, numbers, and withdrawal strategies of asset decumulation, but also the emotional hurdles and practical life adjustments that come with hitting FI. The conversation is packed with actionable insights, myth-busting, candid admissions, and inspiring encouragement for those on the path.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Psychology of Retiring and Withdrawing Funds ([00:00]–[08:25])

• Initial Discomfort with Pulling the Trigger:
  Brad challenges the fear many people have about finally selling assets and living off their portfolio after years of saving.

  • Quote ([02:29]):
    “If you're going to chicken out because you can't lean into five minutes of discomfort and just log into your brokerage and just click sell... you're going to give up FI success for the next five decades because you're worried about logging in and pressing sell one time.”
  • Marla recounts her own nervousness the first time she sold assets but emphasizes becoming comfortable over time.

• Shifting from Saving to Spending:
  Marla and Brad discuss the need to flex a “spending muscle” after years of strong saving discipline.

  • Quote, Marla ([05:23]):
    “We’ve all gotten really good at having a strong savings muscle, but this idea of a spending muscle is new and something that we really gotta try to work on.”

• Community Narratives and Guilt:
  They critique the oft-repeated myth that everyone who retires early goes back to work for money.

  • Quote, Marla ([06:34]):
    “Are we deserving of a life that's just fun?”
  • Brad agrees, noting that the assumption everyone will return to earning is unhelpful.

2. Mechanics and Numbers: Marla’s Real-Life FI Story ([15:56]–[24:15])

• Marla’s Retirement & Financials:
  Marla retired at 43 in 2013 after saving about $1 million over 15 years, mostly with a 50% savings rate.

  • Practical Path: She followed the classic “withdraw 4%, increase for inflation every year” method.

  • Results After 10 Years:

    • Current portfolio: $2.3 million
    • Current annual withdrawals: $52,000
    • Age: 55

  • Quote, Marla ([18:04]):
    “Starting with a million, living what I would say is a very abundant life, increasing my withdrawals based on inflation ... my portfolio now ... is sitting at 2.3 million.”

• Expense Myths Debunked:
  Discussion challenges the idea that you need a high income (e.g., “tech bro”) to get to FI, emphasizing that the core number depends on actual annual expenses, not gross income.

  • Brad notes that many underestimate the impact of low fixed expenses (housing paid off, no car payment, etc.) on the FI calculation.

3. Asset Withdrawal Strategies & Cash Buffer ([25:01]–[32:31])

• How Marla Withdraws:
  Marla is comfortable keeping about two years of expenses in cash as a “sleep at night” buffer, especially after the COVID crash. She generally sells assets once a year, often favoring selling individual stocks first before touching broad index funds.

• Dividend Handling:
  She does not reinvest dividends but treats them as part of her yearly spend; this reduces what she needs to sell annually.

  • Quote, Marla ([28:09]):
    “I'm trying to manage my income tax ... selling so that I'm keeping myself in a low tax ... bracket.”

• Tax Considerations:
  Marla, based in Canada, notes differences with US tax but uses similar principles to minimize taxable events.

4. Life After FI: Abundance, Community, and the Real Lived Experience ([31:00]–[38:28])

• Abundant but Frugal Living:
  Despite only drawing 2% of her now-much-larger portfolio, Marla enjoys 180 days of travel each year, often leveraging travel rewards and community connections, rejecting any implication of a miserly existence.

• FI Friendships and Community:
  Marla highlights the value of new friendships through the FI community, which enriches her life with shared experiences and travel.

• What to Do with “Too Much” Money:
  The discussion on ‘Die With Zero’ and the evolving psychology of “oversaving”—with Marla prioritizing philanthropy and occasional splurges, while still holding to frugal and environmentally conscious values.

  • Quote, Marla ([38:28]):
    “If you wind up with more money... it's a good problem to have, and let's all get generous and do good things with that money.”

5. Flexibility, Resilience, and Real-World Stress Tests ([41:22]–[49:09])

• Downside Mitigation:
  Brad and Marla discuss reducing “fixed” costs in tough market years (e.g., renting out a room, geographic arbitrage, cutting discretionary spending by 15%).

• Worst-Case Scenario Analysis:
  Marla presents a “Less Lucky Marla” scenario: retiring at the market’s worst time (2007/2008). Despite an initial 40%+ drop, she still ends up above her starting portfolio a decade later, demonstrating the resilience of the 4% rule.

  • Quote, Marla ([46:02]):
    “At the end of her very first year of retiring, her numbers have gone down to $604,000 ... took a full five years for Less Lucky Marla to get back up to a million dollars ... But that is pretty reassuring ... you're starting again with 1.2 million, which is fantastic."
  • Even in a worst-case scenario, the 4% rule holds.

• Behavioral Challenges:
  The biggest barrier is emotional, not mathematical—fear, scarcity mindset, and inertia are the true enemies. The importance of community and sharing lived experiences is stressed.

6. Purpose, Identity & Navigating the New Life ([50:23]–[60:38])

• Identity and Purpose Outside Work:
  Marla discusses the angst around “who am I if I don’t work?” and the adjustment period after stopping work.

  • Quote, Marla ([57:18]):
    “If I didn't feel overtly judged, I felt judged by myself that am I wasting my best earning years?...am I using my time really well?”

• The Power of Time Freedom:
  Access to time allows space for reflection, exploration, and “scheming and dreaming,” gradually building confidence and discovering new purposes.

• Encouragement & The Final Word:
  Marla leaves listeners with a message to trust their plan, resist one-more-year syndrome, and know that life after FI is worth it, even if it feels uncomfortable at first.

  • Quote, Marla ([54:40]):
    “Your plan is going to work. You've run the numbers a million times. You have this wonderful community ... Stick with it, because life on the other side is so worth it.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Are we deserving of a life that's just fun?" — Marla ([06:34])
• “We all become evangelists of FI...it’s hard to just live in abundance and not feel guilty.” — Marla ([13:11])
• “You can gamify this ... spending is part of my new game now.” — Brad ([05:40])
• “Can you live on the 4%? Yes, you can. If you wind up with more money…let’s all get generous and do good things with that money.” — Marla ([38:28])

Recommended Timestamps for Key Segments

• Marla’s FI story, retirement, and numbers — [15:56] – [24:15]
• Withdrawal mechanics and cash buffer — [25:01] – [32:31]
• Discussion on abundance and real FI living — [31:00] – [38:28]
• Worst-case scenario analysis — [45:30] – [49:09]
• Overcoming psychological hurdles — [50:23] – [54:40]

Tone and Style

Candid, warm, occasionally humorous, and always supportive—Brad and Marla don’t shy from the emotional side of FI, balancing tough love with compassion and encouragement.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode provides the rare perspective of someone who has lived the FI/RE life for over a decade—debunking doubts, revealing practical withdrawal strategies, and encouraging listeners to trust the math and embrace their post-FI possibilities. Listeners come away with both inspiration and reassurance that living off the 4% rule is not just possible, but can be the springboard to a joyful, purposeful, and flexible life.