Navigating the Path to FI: Bill Powell's Blue Collar Journey from Debt to Empowerment

Summary

ChooseFI Podcast Episode Summary
Episode: Navigating the Path to FI: Bill Powell's Blue Collar Journey from Debt to Empowerment
Release Date: March 10, 2025
Hosts: Jonathan and Brad
Guest: Bill Powell

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1. Introduction

In this enlightening episode of ChooseFI, hosts Jonathan and Brad welcome Bill Powell, a dedicated community member known for his unwavering commitment to financial independence (FI). Bill shares his inspiring journey from grappling with significant debt to nearing FI, offering valuable insights into how blue-collar workers can achieve financial freedom.

2. Bill Powell's Background

Bill Powell comes from a blue-collar family background. Growing up with a carpenter father and a mother who worked for the post office, Bill initially saw construction as his destined career path. Reflecting on his early years, Bill mentions:

"Family was all blue collar. I went through high school, barely graduated with the mindset that I was basically going into construction and that was it."
[04:06] Bill Powell

Over nearly two decades, Bill worked in various facets of the construction industry, including commercial and residential construction, drywall, metal stud framing, and custom home interiors. His role eventually evolved into the Director of Project Management for an AV integration company specializing in custom homes.

3. Financial Struggles and Turning Point

Bill's journey towards FI was catalyzed by financial hardships. He shares his struggles with credit card debt:

"I spent every penny I had, and most of the time more than what I had. When they called me about unpaid bills, I didn't realize the exorbitant fees I was incurring, and my credit score tanked."
[34:08] Bill Powell

Meeting his wife marked a pivotal change. Her disciplined approach to finances complemented Bill's more carefree spending habits. Together, they took strategic steps to eliminate debt, starting with credit cards and eventually paying off their home mortgage ahead of schedule.

4. Path to Financial Independence

Bill emphasizes the importance of financial literacy, especially within the trades:

"One thing that is very lacking in the trades is financial literacy. Even in the union, people aren't taught how to save intentionally beyond relying on a pension."
[11:15] Bill Powell

To avoid the "middle-class trap," Bill diversified his investments across various accounts:

• Roth IRA: Maximized for tax-free growth.
• HSA: Leveraged for both healthcare savings and investment growth.
• Taxable Brokerage Accounts: Ensured liquidity and flexibility, allowing access to funds before traditional retirement age without complex strategies like Roth conversion ladders.

This diversified approach allows Bill and his family to maintain flexibility in their financial planning, ensuring they are not overly reliant on any single investment vehicle.

5. Personal Growth and Inner Work

Bill's journey is not solely financial but also deeply personal. He integrates physical challenges to build mental resilience:

"Challenging yourself physically is the first stepping stone. It instills habits and self-control that translate into all areas of life."
[18:24] Bill Powell

Engaging in activities like weightlifting and ultramarathon training has fortified his discipline, enabling him to manage finances and personal relationships more effectively. Additionally, Bill practices inner work through habits such as:

• Listening More: Focusing on understanding others rather than reacting.
• Accountability Emails: Weekly check-ins that function as both journaling and accountability mechanisms.

These practices have been instrumental in fostering personal growth and maintaining a balanced approach to life and finances.

6. Community and Mentoring

Bill actively mentors others within his community, emphasizing the transformative power of genuine connections and financial education:

"I try to work with whoever is working for me or working with me to really help them understand things and go through what I've learned."
[13:18] Bill Powell

By fostering an environment of open communication and support, Bill helps his colleagues navigate their financial journeys, mirroring the supportive ethos of the FI community.

7. Lifestyle Choices

Living below their means is a cornerstone of Bill and his family's strategy to achieve FI. They consciously avoid lifestyle creep by:

• Major Home Reconstruction: Enhancing their home's value without increasing living costs.
• Smart Vehicle Purchases: Investing in fuel-efficient, reliable trucks that offer long-term savings and practicality.

"We live well below our means. If we buy something new, it has to offset something old."
[40:59] Bill Powell

This disciplined approach ensures that their expenses remain in check, allowing for substantial savings and investment contributions.

8. Conclusion

Bill Powell's story is a testament to the power of discipline, financial literacy, and personal growth in the pursuit of financial independence. His journey underscores that FI is not just about numbers but about building a holistic, fulfilling life through intentional choices and continuous improvement.

Key Takeaways:

• Financial Literacy is Crucial: Especially in blue-collar professions where traditional financial education may be lacking.
• Diversified Investments Offer Flexibility: Balancing retirement accounts with taxable investments prevents over-reliance on any single financial vehicle.
• Personal Growth Enhances Financial Success: Physical and mental challenges build the resilience needed for effective financial management.
• Community Support is Vital: Mentorship and genuine connections accelerate the path to FI.
• Living Below Means is Non-Negotiable: Conscious lifestyle choices prevent unnecessary expenses and foster substantial savings.

Notable Quotes:

"The more I can share about my life, the more it can help somebody else."
[02:51] Bill Powell

"Improve yourself every single day. That. That cannot go wrong."
[32:50] Bill Powell

"We're not trying to hit home runs here. We're taking tiny little actions to make our lives better."
[46:25] Brad

Bill's journey exemplifies how persistent, incremental efforts can lead to significant, life-changing results. His story inspires listeners to take actionable steps towards FI, emphasizing that no matter one's background, financial freedom is attainable through dedication and smart strategies.

Transcript

[Brad]

Hey, it's Brad. Before we get started with the episode, I wanted to pass along some incredibly exciting news in the Choose a Buy world. As we talked about on a previous episode, Jonathan has spent the last couple of years building something incredible and we actually just rolled it out. This is our brand new Choose a five member site. It's obviously entirely free to sign up for. We're hoping this will take the place of our Facebook groups, both for the main Facebook group and especially for our local groups. So how this is going to work, you just go to our main homepage, choosefi.com and and you will see front and center register, sign up for an account log in. It's really, really easy. We made it as simple as possible. So right now, Jonathan is building this in public. Every single day he posts an update with the 20 or 30 things that he updated from the last day that people reported that, hey, I want to see this. I'd love to see this new feature. How can we do this? This is the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance website and community. We finally built it. We've dreamed of this since 2017 and we finally have the technology. We are not beholden to Facebook anymore. We can actually send out events and you will get emailed notification of it. So it's not just the 1%. If you get lucky, that Facebook shows you the notification. Now for your local groups, when you sign up, you tag, hey, I'm a member of this local group. And when your admin sets up an event, you will get email notified so you can't possibly miss it. The this is so exciting. We already have thousands upon thousands of people that signed up just in the first three days and I expect there to be tens of thousands before very long. So I wanted to jot this off before the episode started. Go to choose.com our main homepage and sign up for an account today. Hello and welcome to Choose Fi. Today on the show we have a real treat. We have community member Bill Powell, who's somebody who emails me every single week as an accountability buddy. And he checks in. He has five different aspects of his life that he's trying to improve and work on. And he uses these emails to me as both accountability and as journaling. And I think it's just so incredible. And it highlights how these little 1% actions every single day, every single week, every single month, can add up to something truly extraordinary. And Bill's path is exactly that. He started in the trades with a significant amount of credit card debt and met his wife. They both got on the right path together. They've paid off their house. They are just years from Fi and they're living amazing lives. And that's really at the heart of it. I think a lot of you are going to see yourself in this story and are going to take great motivation from this. And with that. Welcome to Choose Fi. Bill, it is so good to have you on the podcast. We have emailed for so long now, and this is a long time coming. Thank you for being here.

[Bill Powell]

I am definitely excited. This is a bucket list item for me, for sure.

[Brad]

That's so awesome. And yeah, I think one of the best parts of Choose a Vibe for me is really getting to know our community and getting to know the amazing, incredible people that make up our community. And I think that's why I go to a lot of these live events all across the country and world. That's why I say every single week in my newsletter, hit reply.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

And let me know what's going on. Send me your wins. Tell me what's going on in your world. And there are a handful of people who email me really regularly, and I feel like they're friends of mine. And you are squarely in that. That handful. So you've done some remarkable things. And I think one of the cool parts that we talked about was you basically said, the more I can share about my life, the more it can help somebody else. And I think this episode is going to help a lot of people. So let's start from where you came from and where you are now, because I think this illustrates really an incredible amount of persistence, growth, learning, connection. Just everything that FI and our community stands for, I think is encapsulated in your story. Not. Not to put too much pressure on your hair, Bill. No, let's go for it. I'd love for you to share with the community.

[Bill Powell]

So just backstory on me. Family was all blue collar. I went through high school, barely graduated with the mindset that, you know, I was basically going into construction and that was it. You know, worked in commercial construction, residential construction, went back to commercial interiors, various aspects of it. And usually in those industries, right, It's a lot of drinking, it's a lot of partying, stuff like that. And kind of as I've come along this journey now I'm director of project management for a AV integration company for custom homes. So just learning along the way that with communication with people, with talking to different individuals and building meaningful relationships, you can do so much more than what everybody else thinks your normal path should be.

[Brad]

Oh, that hits hard, what everybody else thinks your normal path should be. And, yeah, I suspect. I suspect that happens more often than I even think. You know, I know a really good friend of mine grew up in a. In a farming town, and it was just anticipated that pretty much everybody stays in that farming town. And this is the path. Maybe you farm, maybe you work in a factory, but that's the extent. And I think it's so sadly limiting. But there are those people that break out, and it's fascinating to see that you are one of them. I'd love to hear, like, how does that unfold?

[Bill Powell]

So my dad was a carpenter, and I just looked at it and like you had said, when you're from a small town and farming is all you do, or all. You know, that's kind of what you go to. For me, my dad was a carpenter. My mom worked for the post office. I just said, you know what? That's what I'm going to go into. I'm going to go into construction. Because that's all I knew. So as I kind of got out, you know, the funniest thing was always my exit interview from high school when I was talking to my guidance counselor, and they said, okay, what was your ACT score? And I'm like, it was a zero because I didn't take it. And then they're like, oh, you took the sat? What was your SAT score? I'm like, zero.

[Brad]

I didn't take it.

[Bill Powell]

And he kind of looked at me funny and he's like, well, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to go into construction. And he looked me square in the eye and said, you can't do that. And I was like, okay, I'm done here. And I just kind of stood up and walked out. Because the trades really, at that time, they weren't pushing a lot in schools anymore. So it was kind of the. I graduated in 2001. So it was the. That's really when, hey, you gotta go to college, you gotta get a degree, you gotta do this. Really was. I feel like taking off. And I'm kind of that personality that if you tell me I can't do something, I'll prove to you that I can do it no matter how painful or long it takes. That's for sure. So getting out of high school, I got right into. Actually, before I went into drywall, I was in the. I joined the electrical union. And then right as I was in the electrical apprenticeship, nine, 11 happened. And then they kind of told me, hey, you're going to be laid off for the next six months because they didn't know what was going on. And so I couldn't really afford that. Went into drywall and metal stud for a couple years basically framing out commercial office spaces and things of that nature. For a few years went into doing trim for custom homes, base case making cabinets, doing custom stair rails. Learning from a gentleman who was phenomenal to work for just took real pride and quality in his work. From there I got sucked into the world of contract office furniture. So that's been almost 20 years I was in that realm. So installing picture cubicles, private offices, conference rooms all over the country. Travel to D.C. quite often doing quite a bit down there. New York, California. So I got to see a good chunk of the world from that.

[Brad]

That's really cool. I'm curious before you get into today so blue collar path to fi. You and I had emailed about this and I think to our great detriment like you said about 20 some odd years ago there was this college for all.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

And it kind of really looked down upon or vilified even which might be a stretch but I don't know that if it's that much of a stretch the traits and I think that was just. It was such a detriment to so many people. A lot of not exclusively certainly but a lot of young men especially and kind of pigeonholing people into a path that may not have been the right thing for them and kind of assuming that one size fits all and that college is absolutely necessary and frankly I personally think that was a grave mistake for the country as a whole. And it's interesting to see like nowadays with AI and so many jobs potentially getting. Getting eliminated the thing that almost invariably is not going to be eliminated is the trades.

[Bill Powell]

Correct.

[Brad]

I mean maybe we can make an argument about that but I, I'll. I'll go to bat for that as of this moment and I think there are ways to get into it without obviously giving up four years of your life. Clearly there are apprenticeships but it's not this onerous costs of college. It's not the four years of opportunity cost. To me there is an allure to that especially for people who know their personal finance. Maybe they. They found shoes of high early or somebody the simple path to wealth. I'd love for you to talk through like the case for the trades or blue collar work on your path to fi.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. You know one thing I will say about blue collar work is there is good money to be made if you keep focused and really hone your craft. Right. You know, everybody talks about side hustles. Well, with blue collar work, what you do in the daytime, you can do in the nighttime afterward. Right. It's not like you're trying to pivot from one industry to the next. You can go and help a friend on their house or you know, solicit work that way. One thing I will say that is very lacking in the trades is financial literacy. So you get even in the union side of it, right? Because union, non union, that's tomato, tomato for me. But I feel like a lot of people aren't taught that to save money in the union it was, hey, you've got a pension, so anything you bring home, you can spend it. Not realizing that hey, we make a lot of money in the union. If I'm intentional about what I'm spending on and I save in addition to my pension, I can work, I can do that. You can turbocharge so much of your life. But I also think there's a big allure in the trades in general of you know, hey, let's go out and have a beer after work and hey, let's go out and do this. So there's a lot of things that can be, your money can be wasted on too.

[Brad]

Yeah, Bill, I hear you about the, it's really double edged sword ultimately, right? So the pension on the one side, the potentially nice income, solid income, especially for not having to deal with onerous student loan debt and years of your life. But then there is a YOLO culture, from what I've heard, I haven't been in the world, but you know, YOLO culture, there's a, a truck buying culture, there's a let's go out for multiple drinks culture. And there's an easy way. I think we all know no matter what you earn, no matter how little debt you start with, there's an easy way for this to be a real slippery slope into something negative. And yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that generally.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah, I mean I lived it. I would go out drinking, I would spend all my money and that was it. I was having a good time and just I can't take it with me. So I'm going to spend it while I'm here and that's it. Thinking at 20 years old, I knew what life would bring and obviously life is the ultimate teacher there. But yeah, I think there's a lot that can happen in the blue collar field in regards to financial literacy. I think the more that they are exposed to it and stuff like that, that they can grow in this area as well. I try to work with whoever is working for me or working with me to really help them understand things and go through what I've learned just from the podcast. Right. And going through our 401k options and talking to the installers that we have here at my new company. Hey, when you're looking at things, look at the expense ratios. What's an expense ratio? The thing that'll make or break your financial future. Right. So just really trying to focus on that because I know when I was there, there was nobody helping us out. Right. It was just, hey, here's your paycheck every week. Hopefully you can save enough to make it to next Friday, you know?

[Brad]

Yeah. Goodness. Yeah. I mean, the need for mentoring in every type of job is critical. And I love that you stepped up and done that for people out there who ideally would love to mentor other people in their. In their job, in their company, in their profession. And maybe you don't think about it as overtly as mentoring, but that's how I'm hearing it is like, how do you broach that subject with those younger people?

[Bill Powell]

I ask a lot of questions. That was kind of one of my focuses for last year, is listening more. And I really try to just figure out where they are on their journey because explaining investment options doesn't help anybody that doesn't even know how to initiate their 401k. So really following up with them. Hey, how's everything going? How's life going in general? Are you in our 401 program just asking them real loose questions about things? Not, you know, like he said, what's your net worth? You know, but just trying to get a feel for where people are at genuinely and building genuine relationships to help them move forward.

[Brad]

Yeah, I love that. And that's what you talked about earlier. So a couple of themes that I'm picking up. You said, how have you moved forward in your own life and career? It's talking to people, having conversations and connection. And you just said, and this is one of really the five pillars. And I kind of loosely talked about the emails that you sent me, but you send me an email every single week with five different pillars of what's going on in your life. And it's really been this cool accountability thread that you just started and you sent to me. And. And one of them is listen more, talk less, like you said. And I think that can be transformative. Like, of all the things you've done and they're all incredible. Like that to me is maybe the easiest to implement in a cosmic scheme of things, but maybe not so easy because I think most people want to talk about themselves all the time. You know, we are, we are the stars of our own movie, as I've said many times. Like we're with ourselves 24 hours a day. We are the center of our own universe. But I think the way that you make real connection with people is by asking them questions. And I love that you hit on that. I'd love to hear you talk about how that has impacted your life more broadly.

[Bill Powell]

It's helped me personally because I have this thing where I love to challenge myself and I love to suffer a little bit harder every day, no matter what it is, whether it's physical, whether it's mental. And the physical side I found is the first real stepping stone. It's like if you can challenge yourself physically, that's fine, but to challenge yourself mentally, it's a whole new level of self control. There are things that I want to say, there are things that I want to respond to people, but I have to stop and think, is this going to move them forward? Is my response going to make them a better person? Is my response self serving? And don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect at it, right?

[Brad]

Nobody is.

[Bill Powell]

I screw up plenty of times. But I really try to make a conscious effort that what I say is helping them. And it's not just a self serving story of oh, you did this. Well, yeah, I did this too, you know, so that's really that fine line I walk with really trying to listen to them and help them. Because you've said it before, we learn through stories, right? That's really how we grow. So how do I talk about what I've been through but using it so other people can grow themselves as well?

[Brad]

Yeah, I love that. And as you're saying in there, like the reflexive need to respond. I think so many, so many of us have that. And it's almost like even if you're not consciously doing it, it's like a one upsmanship, right? Like, oh, you did that. Well, here's what I did. And it's really a need to feel seen, a need to feel special, a need to feel whatever. But it's so detrimental to actual connection I've found. And, and it reminds me of the famous Viktor Frankl quote that we can't say enough. And it's, this is really the underpinning, I think to me of inner work. Generally. And I think that's been another, I don't know if you term it that way, but that's been another one of your five pillars is, is inner work. And this quote is, between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and freedom. And Bill, to me, that Frankel quote is everything. Because if you can just create that little bit of space between that stimulus and response, you're listening to this and maybe you're reactive. We are all reactive. If you can just find it somehow to create that little bit of space, I promise you it will make your life better in a noticeable and appreciable way. It will. Absolutely. And Bill, as you're saying, like it's in all aspects of life, but it is not easy. Let's be clear. It's something you need to work on for months and years. But to me, that is freedom.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. Like I was saying, a good catalyst to it is challenging yourself physically because, you know, in your journey with weightlifting, right. That part of it, you become regimented in that and you build up those habits. Because I'm a big fan of James Clear's book, Atomic Habits, I try to read it once a year to really refresh myself and okay, what habits am I trying to build and what old habits no longer serve me? And going through that and yeah, I think the habit of physical endurance is good. And then once you kind of have gotten that to a certain level, you start breaking into that mental space regardless. Like for me, you know, from running, right. I was the person that was like, hey, you never, as a human being in today's society, you should never have to run more than one mile. If you do, you got bigger problems, something's horribly wrong. Yeah. And this year I'm training for a 50 mile ultramarathon. So it's like, you know, we change, we grow, but I think that mental aspect starts creeping into the physical aspect and then you start realizing how much things are intertwined in that way.

[Brad]

Yeah, I love that. So physicality and physical pursuits, doing hard things as the lead domino, in essence, in, in your case. Now does that mean everybody has to start with that? No, of course, we're never giving blanket advice. Right. But Bill, I agree with you. Like, that's worked for me exceptionally well. And it's really like you're saying about habits.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

How can we form habits? How can we maybe even stack good habits? You know, you think about just little things like, hey, what if I'm going on the exercise bike and I'm reading at the same time or listening to an audiobook. Like, is that going to work for everybody? Is that my advice? No, not necessarily. But that could work for a whole heck of a lot of people, right? And like, how can you stack habits? And I think for me the biggest thing has been can I get into a routine, can I prove to myself, right, It's a little check mark in your corner every time you go to the gym or every time in your case you go out. I know you were trying to run a 5k every single day for 20, 24 and now you're preparing for a 50 mile race which is absolutely wild. And like every time you went out and ran a 5K, that was a check mark in the. I'm the type of person that can do hard things, right? Like for me it's every time I go to the gym it's another check mark in. I'm the type of person that wants to be healthy and is going to do what he can to get there. And none of us are getting any younger, right? So it's just not the way the world works. Except for Benjamin Button maybe. But like, I'm in. I'm 45 years old and I am in by far the best physical shape of my life. I mean, I'm going to the gym and maxing out most of the machines. Like, I mean, it's crazy.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

And it's been, it's been a lot of years, but it's really been the last two years of concerted effort with Dean Turner, my trainer, and it's been amazing.

[Bill Powell]

That's awesome.

[Brad]

That does like, you prove to yourself that you can do hard things and I think that's massive. Bill. Right?

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brad]

Thanks for listening to Choose a V and for all your support of our mission here. The absolute best way to support Choose a Pie is when you sign up for your next rewards credit card to use our cards page at choose a buy.com cards. I keep this page constantly updated so it should always be the top resource for you. Thanks for being part of our community and for your support. So Bill, I think like we were saying that physicality then gets you to the point where you can focus on your inner game. And I think, I think a lot of us, and again, I don't want to paint a broad brush. I hate doing that. But like, especially a lot of us males are notorious for not doing inner work. And I think what's been so cool, I know about my own journey really over the Last eight years, since I reconnected with my friend Dominic Cortuccio, who's been on the podcast a number of times, is I've joined mastermind groups, I've joined inner work groups of, in my case, in men, who are all on a journey of self discovery, of self improvement, of. Of connection. And I think it's really been. It's been a total game changer for me to be able to open up and relate to people and see that, frankly, all of us, no matter how successful we appear, we're all dealing with things. We're all humans. And I think it's easy in the Facebook and Instagram world to look at people's absolute best moments out of 365 days and think that that's life. And the reality is that's not life. That's a carefully curated, sometimes totally fictional appearance of what a life is. And I think for really all of us, it's about doing the work, and it's about trying to connect. And like you said, listening more, talking less. Like, actually finding people to connect with. I'd love to hear you talk about how that inner work aspect has really helped you spirituality. I know it's really important to you. You know, talk us through, like, how that's been transformative.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. So I would say finding the podcast has really been the catalyst to self improvement. Right. I always tell people, like, when I. When I share your podcast with my friends and that, I always tell them, like, you know, it started out as a financial podcast, but it's more of a life optimization podcast in every aspect of it. Right. So it's spurned me into reading more and doing more. You know, I haven't drank since New Year's Day, 2022.

[Brad]

Wow. Congrats.

[Bill Powell]

Thanks. Yeah, that's been a huge thing for me. Got involved more in my church men's group now I actually lead my church men's group with another gentleman. So that's really helped me along in regards to kind of what we were talking about. Right. Like, we're all going through stuff, and in that group, you know, we've got people from so many different backgrounds, and we find, like, over the last year, the more that we share, the more that everybody else shares. And when new guys kind of come in, it's like, the more vulnerable we are, the more everybody else feels vulnerable, to be honest, to be like, hey, I'm struggling with this. Hey, I need help with this. And I don't think we just. We don't have that in life. Right. We have to wear this. Hey, we're at work. So boom, you gotta be in work mode. And to a certain extent I get it right, like you can't sometimes let your outside life affect your professional life. But do we have those people? Do we have those groups? Do we have even the capacity to open up and be honest about things? I think when we do that again, it not only helps us, it truly helps us so much, it's unbelievable. But to watch how much it helps other people, is life transforming? Right. You see guys that just come in that don't even realize that this type of transformation exists in life. When you share things, when you work through problems, when you have accountability partners, whether it's through your church, through even just emailing you, sending that email every week, it forces me to go back and go, okay, what did I do? Did I do anything? And being honest about it, yeah, I love that.

[Brad]

Accountability is so huge. And I know Brian Feroldi who's been on the show a number so many times and we text each other every week. So going back to the physical aspect when he's doing Dean's workouts now as well, whenever we finish a workout, we just send each other, hey, upper A done or lower B done. And it's just like that little check in. You're not looking for a response necessarily, but it's just, hey, I did it. Yeah, I'm here.

[Bill Powell]

Yep.

[Brad]

Right. And I showed up and I think that it's really, really important.

[Bill Powell]

Yep. My buddy who's running the 50 mile ultra with me, we're friends on, you know, MapMyRun and that and it's like we're always checking in and like we're seeing what they did, you know, commenting on it because it just links automatically. We don't even have to send anything to each other. We just kind of like, oh, hey, good job on the run. You know, it auto posts, we don't have to worry about anything like that. But it's just that it's not even accountability, but it is that motivation, you know, it's that, hey, we're in this together, we're going to do it together. It's going to be horrible.

[Brad]

I'm sure it's going to be horrible.

[Bill Powell]

We're fully prepared for that. But we want to push through it together and having that group that, like you said before, your tribe of people to get through those challenges to come out the other side, building exponential growth off of things, off of the hard things in life.

[Brad]

Yeah, I, I hear you. And you know, one thing that, that jumped out to me too. And, and you're writing me this email every week. It's similar frankly to a journal. It's similar to journaling. And then it's also like I, I think about the reticular activating system where basically like what we're looking for, like we find right in that hey, if you go out and buy like a red Audi, and I'm not advocating that by any means, but you're gonna, you're gonna see a whole lot more red outies. It's just the way the brain works similarly. And this might not be an exact one to one, but similarly. This is why a lot of people do gratitude practice. Because when you're looking for things to be grateful for, even if they're tiny little things, you have a way of finding one. Yes, right. So even if it's just like hey, jot down, it sounds so trite when you hear it. And, and that's, I think one of the, the main turn offs for gratitude practice is like, oh, how could that really matter? But it matters because that's what you're then looking for. You have attuned your entire brain to. I'm going to look for those little positive things in life and I'm not going to look for the tiny little things to complain about, which so much, I mean, frankly that's what passes for a lot of conversation in life is just people complaining about little things and it's really frustrating. And who wants to be around somebody like that?

[Bill Powell]

Yeah, it's. If you're negative, guess what you're going to find, you're going to find negative. It's the seek and you shall find. There is no doubt about that. One thing that's really helped me, there was a book I read, it was the miracle morning and it was a good book and I read it and I tried to force the structure on myself and it was square pay ground hole and it didn't really form to me. I tried actual physical journaling every day and it became just a thing to do. It wasn't really helping me at all, but in working and staying with some sort of morning routine, it's like, now I can set my kids and my wife know. Do not interrupt the process because like if it gets interrupted, the whole process is shot. It's like get up, make coffee, read my Bible while the coffee's brewing, go back, get the cup of coffee while I'm reading my whatever self help book I'm reading, do yoga for 15 minutes every morning. And then it's like, get the shoes on, go for my run. And it's this structured thing. And then Tuesday mornings is my journaling time. Right. I don't like to journal every day, but that Tuesday morning that I get that email, it's like, okay, this is my time to unload what I have, the highlights if you will. But it's like, okay, this is what I did and do I feel good about what I did for the last week or do I need to step it up a little more?

[Brad]

Hmm. Yeah, that's really cool. So, right. That Tuesday email is literally my email newsletter. So if you're listening to this and you're not getting my newsletter, it really is pretty good. I sit down and write it personally, unfortunately, usually every Monday right before the deadline. But yeah, I think it provides a little bit of inspiration because we talk about like the 1% wins that other members of our community did that week. And then I have a couple little sections of things going on in my life or interesting things in the personal finance world and I think it just helps, I think it really like it just provides that little bit of inspiration and, and yeah, I love Bill, that you've turned that into like your own journaling time. That's what's so cool about it. So, yeah, really, really neat. I, I, yeah, I know we can talk about this a lot. And, and you mentioned the Miracle Morning. That's a book by a guy named Hal Elrod. And I think something that's important that you said in there and I think a lot of people get bogged down in like letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Right? It's like we can get so bogged down in, oh, I want to do this 75 hard, but you know, do I have to do it exactly perfectly? And if I can't do it and if I miss a day, then it all goes to hell and it's not worth it or like, you know, people get really hung up on, like it has to be perfect or I have to keep that streak. And it's like, give yourself a little bit of grace sometimes. Right.

[Bill Powell]

It was hard for me, especially doing all last year. Right. It's like I made it my mission. No matter the weather, get outside, run a 5k minimum every single day. And when it shifted gears into this year and my new resolution was to run a 50 mile ultra, you have to take rest days. And I was, I ran 366 days and it's like, okay, 367, 368. And then it got to don't run. And I'm like, what? Well, I have to. I have to keep my streak going. And then it's like, wait, no, no, no. That was last year. Last year's goal was to run every day. This year's goal was something different. And the mental friction that that caused in my mind was unbelievable. How much it's like, don't get me wrong, there are good streaks and things like that, but there's a time for everything. And I think when we have to break, that is when the real rub comes in.

[Brad]

Agreed, agreed. And, yeah, it's not to vilify streaks, because I think anything that can help people keep routines can be useful. But I think it's just like anything. There's a balance in life. There's a balance in everything. There's a balance in personal finances, balance in life. And when you let that streak override common sense, like, if you're training for an ultramarathon, it's to your detriment. And I think a lot of us sometimes do things to our detriment thinking that we're doing something positive. And I would just counsel, like, everybody, like, you gotta be smart. You gotta also look at, like, hey, what works for me, not what's the blanket advice? Because I know on a podcast like this or other podcast books, like, it's very hard to give blanket advice to hundreds of thousands of people at one time. It's just. It's really hard.

[Bill Powell]

The only blanket advice that I would say is improve yourself every single day. That. That cannot go wrong.

[Brad]

I'll sign up for that. I like that. And I mean, it doesn't have to be something big. Right. That's the whole point of the. The 1% actions that we talk about at Jews of I all the time. Like, it can just be something small, but just push the ball forward. Push the ball forward, and you find.

[Bill Powell]

Yourself looking for those things, and it becomes. Again, it becomes a habit.

[Brad]

Yeah, yeah. And you stack hundreds of those into thousands of those over years and decades. You got a pretty darn good life at some point along the way there, right?

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

So, yeah, I wanted to kind of double back to personal finance. Okay, so let's talk about where you were again. Like, where you were where you are now. So I know there's some interesting, like, credit card debt. And you talked about, hey, I was one of those people you mentioned, right?

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

Who spent.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah, I spent every penny I had, and most of the times more than what I had. And when I would charge things on My credit card, the bill would basically get paid. When they called me and said, hey, you didn't pay your bill for the last two months. Oh, okay, whatever. And pay the bill and not realize the exorbitant fees I was paying and all that. And my interest rate through the roof and credit score tanked. And met my wife, and she was the polar opposite of me, and she was like, nope, everything gets paid on time. Like, we do not. I do not miss a payment. And it was like, huh, okay. So then it kind of. It started out as a credit game, Right. Downloaded the Credit Karma app and it was like, well, I wonder what would happen if I paid my. And it's like, oh, my credit score went up. My credit score went up again. So it kind of started there. And then it was in 2008, we bought our house. And, you know, luckily we bought our house in 2008.

[Brad]

So it was pretty good timing.

[Bill Powell]

Yes. And as we kind of worked along, it was paying off the house, adding extra payments and stuff like that, and wanting to pay my house off. It didn't make financial sense. And I know it didn't, you know, with. With how low the interest rates were. But to me, the security and the mental side of it of knowing that my wife, my kids would have a house and all they would have to worry about is paying taxes on it instead of a house payment, that to me was worth every penny. So then really started getting into that portion of it, found the podcast, and then took off from there. I mean, I crunched through at the time, I think it was 360 some odd episodes in about five months, something like that.

[Brad]

That's amazing.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. I was so glad I found that. You can listen to it at 1.5 speed. That helped.

[Brad]

Yeah, not bad at all.

[Bill Powell]

But really hammered through that and started digging into, okay, I have savings, but what else can I be saving? Digging into now, it's like I max out my Roth. I max out my HSA. I don't max out my 401 because I don't want to be stuck in the middle class trap. So I take a certain percentage of that and dump it into a taxable brokerage account. So I've got kind of buckets here, there, and everywhere.

[Brad]

Hey, Bill, let me jump in. What's the trap?

[Bill Powell]

You're talking about the middle class trap, Right. You're rich on paper.

[Brad]

Gotcha.

[Bill Powell]

But you can't access it until 59 and a half. And it's like, I like the. I don't want all my net worth to be tied up into my house and into retirement. And obviously, yes, there are things we can do to get it out earlier, but to me, it's like, okay, can I invest in all these things and how do I balance them? Yeah, to be able to access them early but not have to jump through, you know, Roth conversion ladders and in all that stuff.

[Brad]

Right, I like that. And yeah, I think, obviously, to each their own. But it's hard to argue with flexibility. It's hard to argue with having some Roth accounts, having an hsa, having some traditional accounts, having taxable brokerage. Like, it is very, very hard to argue with that because what it does is it gives you that flexibility when it comes time to, okay, hey, I have to actually draw this down now, but maybe I want to contemplate getting health insurance, ACA subsidies. Maybe I want to contemplate having a low enough taxable income to, like you said, do Roth conversions or doing tax gain. Harvesting is another thing. So there's a lot of cool tactics that those of us in the fight community can undertake, but it makes it easier when you have more flexibility. So I think that's, that's smart. Now, of course, again, everybody has to look at their own situation, like, hey, what, what tax bracket am I in? If you're in a massive 30 plus percent federal tax bracket, okay, maybe maxing out the 401k makes a whole lot more sense. If you're down in the 10 or 12%, probably doesn't make as much sense. So again, there's no way to give blanket advice. But also you reference how to get, get your money out early. We did an amazing episode with Sean Mulaney. It was episode 475 and it was literally called how to access your retirement accounts before 59 and a half. So there are ways, but like you said, if you want flexibility, like, would I ever begrudge you that, like, you're putting money in a taxable brokerage? No, of course not. I've been doing the same thing for forever. I think that's a really smart thing to do based on your own situation.

[Bill Powell]

And it's not like it's all over the board, every different investment. It's like it's pretty much the exact same investment in every single bucket. But. But it's just the availability of when the tax efficiencies, things like that, that I just enjoy. I don't always make the smartest. I'm far from making the smartest decisions. My wife and I, we recently bought two brand new trucks. But to Us, it made sense because knowing that the truck is gonna last a long time, it gets great gas mileage. We bought a 22 and a 24 Ford Maverick, the hybrids, and they're getting like anywhere between 45 and 50 miles to the gallon. Wow. Wow. And they're under $30,000 brand new.

[Brad]

Really?

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. So for us it was like, okay, we can do this, we can pay these off. And, you know, hopefully when the girls need a vehicle, I won't need a vehicle. So, you know, the ultimate goal, they could just have that and I could ride my bike to the store and greet people at the do.

[Brad]

Hey, you love connecting with people, right? You love asking questions.

[Bill Powell]

That's it. But no, it made sense for us. And that's what I try to help people the most with is like, just because I did it doesn't mean you should do it. But make the optimal choices in whatever you're doing. If you're struggling for money, yeah. Buy a used Honda, Toyota, something that's going to last you for 5, 10 years until you get some savings up, man.

[Brad]

It made sense for us. I think that's a quote for the ages, right? Because I think that at the end of the day is what we're doing here. There's a whole smorgasbord of options for us to pick from. And there's no one path to fi. There's no one path to a great, successful, happy life. It's winding, it's circuitous, and we're all just kind of figuring it out day by day. And to imagine that there's one prescribed path seems pretty silly. I mean, sure, would I go to bad and say, hey, you need to live below your means and save money? Yes, I would obviously go to bad for pretty much everybody. Hey, you need to try to cut some frivolous expenses. You need to try to earn more money and get more skills. Yeah, of course. But on the investment side, like, I personally invest in low cost index funds or really vti, which is a exchange traded fund now. But is that the right path for everybody? No, there are plenty of people who invest in real estate and things like that, and that's fine. But I think, hey, this was the right path for us. It worked for us, and I think that's a cool way of looking at it. So, okay, it sounds like the house is paid off or pretty darn close.

[Bill Powell]

No, it's been paid off for two years.

[Brad]

Hey, nice. Obviously, since after meeting your wife, the credit card debt was quickly squashed. But where are you now in Your fight journey.

[Bill Powell]

We live well below our means. You know, as, as soon as I hit a certain threshold, I just kind of said, all right, are you good with us living kind of here and anything else is invested? And my wife was in agreeance. And basically if we buy a new thing, it has to be because we've offset an old thing. So, you know, when the trucks get paid off, if we want to take something else and put it to that. Yeah, great. So we've been very smart about not letting lifestyle creep happen. The house we live in right now, we did a major reconstruction to it in 2016, kind of adding to the kitchen, things like that. But, you know, it's all been, hey, let's focus on this amount of money and go from there. I would say we're about halfway to five. But my new career has kind of afforded me to add to that. So it's kind of definitely going to be helping me turbocharge that and move forward.

[Brad]

That's awesome. So, right. You told me offline you just started a new career about a month ago, I think, and I love that you locked down, hey, what is our life cost? And now if you're earning extra income, it's just all goes to the additional savings. So what's cool? And we can't say this enough because I think it's, it's not intuitive. Just the understanding of, of compounding is if you're halfway to FI, that means almost invariably that money will double in nine years if we assume an 8% return annual, which of course doesn't happen every single year. Last year it was in the 20s or 30%. Right. But over the long term historical average, we usually do 8%. So that money will double in nine years. Which means if you save $0 in the next nine years and continued working, you'll be at FI, which is pretty awesome. And it sounds like if I'm reading between the lines, you have a pretty, pretty massive savings rate. So you're going to reach FI well before nine years. And then it doesn't mean you leave your job, obviously, but it means you have flexibility.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. And I think that's the best part is this new job that I found, the new company that I work for, it truly is kind of a one off company in that everybody here, from the newest guy to the CEO, right. Everybody's mindset is rowing in the same direction. Everybody is great when they come in. Everybody's giving it their all. It's not the toxic work environment, anything like that. So it's nothing that I'm going to run away from. It's just having that flexibility and that freedom is what it's about. I think, you know, if it were me and from looking at it today, I could be here another 10 years and be perfectly happy and loving what I do. Working with the team that I work with.

[Brad]

Yeah, that's so awesome. And that's the cool thing. I think a lot of times the FI community gets painted as anti work or running away from things. And, you know, after having listened to hundreds upon hundreds of episodes of Shoes of I, that we want to run towards an amazing life. This is not 2014 anymore, where 5 was all about just getting to a number on a spreadsheet and running away from the life you hate. It's all along the way we're building a life that we want to live into. And I know that you've read Dominic's book design your future, Right. And, like, you can hear me quoting his exact phrasing there, but that's what's so cool, is, like, there's nothing that says you need to leave your job when you reach five. Like, if you really enjoy it, then stay at it. If you really enjoy parts of it that you just add value to the company. Like, you have a lot more flexibility then, too, which is really neat.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. One of the ones that I really enjoyed was the chance. Like I said, I was in the last industry I was in for 20 years. So it was what I knew. And I wasn't even looking for a new job, but one came to me. And because I had that financial space, I could take a risk. And a lot of us are stuck between the devil we know and the devil we don't. But having that ability to say, hey, if this works, great. If it doesn't work, I'll be fine and I can go somewhere else. It's not that. But when we get stuck in that survival mindset every day, it's like, I have to. I have to just do this, and I have to deal with it because I need this paycheck. And you don't create that space for you to take those risks, those calculated risks.

[Brad]

Yeah, the. I have to. I have to. I have to. Right? Isn't that. Isn't that what we're trying to avoid? In a nutshell? Yeah. I mean, we get, what, 70, 80, 90 years on this planet, and to waste any significant amount of it doing things you have to, it just seems really like the height of foolishness. I mean, I don't think either of us think we're living deprived lives at all. I think for me, it's quite the gantry, and I have a significant savings rate, and I've been able to amass some wealth, and it's remarkable.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. A lot of people look at me like I'm living a sacrificed life. I enjoy it. You know, we spent a month in Costa Rica in 22, living in the jungle, my wife and my kids and I. It was a blast. And I came back from there craving black beans, brown rice and eggs, and chicken. And it's like, I eat that every day. And people are like, why do you just eat rice and beans? I was like, because I enjoy it. And it saves me a lot of money, too.

[Brad]

Yeah. Not a bad sign. Benefit.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah.

[Brad]

That's so cool. Yeah. So, Bill, I think this has been just a really solid episode of motivation. Right. In every aspect. I think that's what's cool. Like you said about stories, like, invariably, a lot of people are going to see themselves in your story, and they're going to say, hey, if Bill did it, I can do it too.

[Bill Powell]

I hope so.

[Brad]

Right. And that's what's so awesome, is, like, you've just put the work in for years now, and it shows up every week in that accountability email you sent to me. It shows up in the fact that you paid off your house, got rid of your credit card debt. You're on the path to fi. Like, you're more than halfway to fi. You're probably four or five years to FI based on. On your savings rate. I mean, this is remarkable stuff. And. And you're in an amazing place mentally and with connections and with family. Like, this is the holistic life that we're trying to build here. And I just. I think you've done a really good job of explaining it and encapsulating it for our community.

[Bill Powell]

Yeah. Appreciate it. I appreciate the chance to be on the podcast. I. You know, like I said, this is one of my bucket list items that it's. I find more and more. It's like, you got to speak.

[Brad]

You got.

[Bill Powell]

You gotta tell people what you want, and you gotta be out there, and it'll move us all forward. And I really want people to know that. Just putting in that effort every single day, be it savings, be it your health, be it anything, you're gonna stumble, you're gonna fall. Keep going and don't quit whatever you're trying to do. Just keep going forward.

[Brad]

I love that. That is the perfect, perfect way to end. So, Bill, thank you for being here, and thank you for listening. I really appreciate both you, Bill, listening, and you out there listening to this podcast. It's about showing up, it's about taking action. It's about moving our lives forward. And it's just trying to get a little bit better every day. We're not trying to hit home runs here. I think that's the beautiful part about FI is you take tiny little actions to make your life better. And over years and decades, you're going to be absolutely transformed. And it's really not that hard. It just takes these little things. So as always, thank you for being part of our community and thanks for listening to Choose a fy.

[Jonathan]

Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the Choose a 5 community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player. Just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning. So just head over to choosefi.com subscribe and it's really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox.

[Brad]

So that's the way that I keep.

[Jonathan]

A pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a vi local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to choose a vi.com local and you'll find a list of all of Those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world. And if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways choose a VI episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community and even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up and it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence. What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then choose if I created a Financial Independence 101 course that's entirely free. Just head to choose a vi.comfi101 and again, thanks for listening.