Rebelutionaries: Stages of FI | Katie & Alan Donegan | Episode 539

Summary

Podcast Summary: ChooseFI - Episode 539: Rebelutionaries: Stages of FI | Katie & Alan Donegan

Host: ChooseFI
Guests: Katie & Alan Donegan
Release Date: March 24, 2025
Duration: Approximately 65 minutes

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1. Introduction and Exciting Announcements ([00:00] - [07:19])

Brad kicks off the episode with thrilling news about ChooseFI's newly launched member site. This platform aims to replace their existing Facebook groups, offering enhanced features like event notifications via email, fostering a more inclusive and interactive community.

Brad [00:00]: "This is our brand new Choose a FI member site. It's obviously entirely free to sign up for."

Katie and Alan Donegan rejoin the show to discuss their latest achievement and a unique project they've undertaken—a music album centered around Financial Independence (FI).

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2. Honoring Katie & Alan Donegan ([02:36] - [05:32])

Brad shares the exciting news that Katie and Alan have been honored with British Empire Medals for their services to financial education through Rebel Finance School.

Alan Donegan [03:03]: "We were included on that list in summer of last year and we were given British Empire medals for services to financial education."

They express their gratitude and excitement about receiving such prestigious awards and attending upcoming royal events.

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3. Introducing "Money Revolution" Album ([05:54] - [07:19])

Katie and Alan unveil their new venture—the formation of a band called Revolutionaries and their FI-centric album titled "Money Revolution." The album aims to encapsulate the essence of the FI journey through music, making financial education more accessible and engaging.

Katie Donegan [06:17]: "We've produced the world's first financial independence album."

They highlight the album's availability on major platforms like Spotify and Apple Music, encouraging listeners to explore this innovative approach to FI education.

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4. Song Analysis: "Choose FI" ([08:46] - [23:05])

The first song, "Choose FI," serves as an anthem encouraging listeners to take control of their financial destiny. The lyrics emphasize intentionality in financial decisions and the empowerment that comes with choosing financial independence.

Notable Lyrics:

"Choose FI. Choose life. Choose freedom."
"Every penny's got a purpose. Future's brightest since the old ways lagged."

Discussion Highlights:

• Intentionality: Brad underscores the importance of actively choosing FI rather than passively letting life unfold.

  Brad [11:42]: "It's about taking action. You are actively choosing financial independence."

• Impact of Fees: Alan and Katie discuss the detrimental effects of high fees in financial advising, reinforcing the podcast's advocacy for low-cost index funds.

  Alan Donegan [20:43]: "You've lost over $2.1 million to fees. That's why we say fees matter."

• Mindset Shift: The song aims to instill a positive mindset towards FI, making it an integral part of one's identity.

  Katie Donegan [23:05]: "It's an empowering mindset. People get excited because they feel part of something."

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5. Song Analysis: "Compounding" ([24:21] - [35:20])

"Compounding" delves into the power of compound interest, a fundamental principle in achieving FI. The song simplifies the often complex concept, making it relatable and motivating.

Notable Lyrics:

"Compound interest is the key to a future of financial security. Start early, my friend, and don't delay."

Discussion Highlights:

• Understanding Compounding: Brad explains the mathematical magic behind compound interest and its significant impact on net worth over time.

  Brad [18:11]: "You lose over $2.1 million to fees. That's why we say fees matter."

• Real-Life Examples: Katie illustrates how different savings rates can lead to varying retirement timelines, emphasizing that it's not about income but the amount saved and invested.

  Katie Donegan [26:35]: "It's about how much are you putting away. And then that compounds."

• Mind Over Math: The conversation highlights the challenge of understanding compounding both at the beginning and the end of the FI journey, encouraging trust in the process despite its abstract nature.

  Katie Donegan [32:37]: "You have to trust and invest and just get your money in there."

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6. Song Analysis: "Boring Middle" ([37:20] - [43:25])

"Boring Middle" addresses the often-overlooked phase between starting one's FI journey and achieving it. Contrary to popular belief, this period is portrayed as the "best part," focusing on personal growth, health, and happiness.

Notable Lyrics:

"It's not about the numbers or the dollars that I save. It's the habits and the health I gain."

Discussion Highlights:

• Embracing the Journey: Brad and the guests emphasize that the period leading up to FI should be enjoyable and fulfilling, not just a grind.

  Brad [39:17]: "These are the years where I think... the hard part is keeping working and experimenting with life."

• Personal Development: Alan and Katie discuss how this phase is crucial for discovering passions and building a meaningful life beyond financial goals.

  Katie Donegan [42:50]: "Live your life. Don't wait for that number."

• Redefining "Boring": They challenge the notion that this middle phase is dull, instead highlighting it as a time of active personal enrichment and preparation for freedom.

  Alan Donegan [41:13]: "This is the best part. It's where we figure out what life is about."

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7. Song Analysis: "One More Year" ([49:03] - [62:30])

The final song, "One More Year," tackles the common hesitation of delaying FI—for instance, the "One More Year Syndrome." It urges listeners to overcome fear and take decisive action towards financial freedom.

Notable Lyrics:

"No more wasted years. Life's too short to live in fear."

Discussion Highlights:

• Overcoming Delay Tactics: Katie and Alan discuss how individuals often procrastinate their FI journey, fearing uncertainty more than they fear wasting time.

  Brad [55:47]: "People are looking for certainty, but what's riskier is wasting years of a finite life."

• Risk Reassessment: They encourage listeners to reevaluate what they consider risky—continuing in unfulfilling jobs versus the minimal risk of not reaching FI.

  Katie Donegan [35:20]: "You can choose your risk. Do you want to risk running out of life or out of money?"

• Taking Action: The conversation underscores the importance of acting now, utilizing the knowledge and tools available to avoid unnecessary delays.

  Katie Donegan [53:15]: "Don't wait for the universe to fire you. Change before the universe asks you to change."

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8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts ([63:31] - [65:48])

Brad and the Donegan duo wrap up the episode by reiterating the significance of their musical project as a tool for financial education and community engagement. They express heartfelt appreciation for each other's contributions and the broader FI community.

Brad [60:59]: "This episode could be a starting point for FI because it touched on four essential aspects of our entire journey."

Katie emphasizes the album's role in sparking conversations and making FI concepts more approachable through music.

Katie Donegan [61:57]: "Play it at a dinner party. Use the music to sing along to the messages."

Alan highlights the potential of the album to inspire others to initiate their own FI journeys.

Alan Donegan [62:30]: "We want to encourage other people to think about their lives in a different way."

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage with the ChooseFI community through subscriptions, local groups, and educational resources.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Empowerment Through Choice: FI is an active choice that empowers individuals to take control of their financial and personal lives.
2. The Power of Compounding: Understanding and leveraging compound interest is crucial for building substantial wealth over time.
3. Value the Journey: The path to FI is not just about numbers but also about personal growth, health, and happiness.
4. Overcome Delays: Addressing and overcoming the fear of uncertainty is essential to prevent prolonged delays in achieving FI.

Notable Quotes:

• Brad [00:00]: "This is our brand new Choose a FI member site. It's obviously entirely free to sign up for."
• Alan Donegan [03:03]: "We were included on that list in summer of last year and we were given British Empire medals for services to financial education."
• Katie Donegan [06:17]: "We've produced the world's first financial independence album."
• Brad [11:42]: "It's about taking action. You are actively choosing financial independence."
• Katie Donegan [26:35]: "It's about how much are you putting away. And then that compounds."
• Katie Donegan [53:15]: "Don't wait for the universe to fire you. Change before the universe asks you to change."

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Final Note: This episode serves as a creative and motivational exploration of the FI journey, blending financial education with music to inspire and engage the ChooseFI community and beyond.

Transcript

[Brad]

Hey, it's Brad. Before we get started with the episode, I wanted to pass along some incredibly exciting news in the Choose a Buy world. As we talked about on a previous episode, Jonathan has spent the last couple of years building something incredible and we actually just rolled it out. This is our brand new Choose a five member site. It's obviously entirely free to sign up for. We're hoping this will take the place of our Facebook groups, both for the main Facebook group and especially for our local groups. So how this is going to work, you just go to our main homepage, choosefi.com and and you will see front and center, register, sign up for an account log in. It's really, really easy. We made it as simple as possible. So right now, Jonathan is building this in public. Every single day he posts an update with the 20 or 30 things that he updated from the last day that people reported that, Hey, I want to see this. I'd love to see this new feature. How can we do this? This is the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance website and community. We finally built it. We've dreamed of this since 2017 and we finally have the technology. We are not beholden to Facebook anymore. We can actually send out events and you will get emailed notification of it. So it's not just the 1%. If you get lucky, that Facebook shows you the notification. Now, for your local groups, when you sign up, you tag, hey, I'm a member of this local group. And when your admin sets up an event, you will get email notified. So you can't possibly miss it. This. This is so exciting. We already have thousands upon thousands of people that signed up just in the first three days and I expect there to be tens of thousands before very long. So I wanted to jot this off before the episode started. Go to choose a5.com, our main homepage and sign up for an account today. Hello and welcome to Choose A five. Today on the show, we have our good friends Katie and Alan Donegan back for another episode. And this one is an incredible one. They actually just produced a music album that is FI centric, and we are going to play four of the songs from this new album. And to me, this episode can really serve as an overview of four essential aspects of the FI journey. We're going to play each of these four songs and then we're really going to dive into the lyrics and why they picked these as four songs on a very finite track list of. This is critical information for people who are looking to learn about FI and Live this incredible life. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. And with that, welcome to Choose a Phi. Alan and Katie, it is so good to have you back.

[Katie Donegan]

We are so excited to be here.

[Brad]

We love Choose Fi and we love you guys. And not for nothing, but the three of us have been traveling quite a bit and we have some more travel coming up in the future. So we spent basically three weeks together in Singapore and Bali, which was incredible. And you two are getting quite a big honor coming up here in early April. I'd love, love it if you could talk about it. This is something really incredible.

[Alan Donegan]

Twice a year, the King. Yes, that king. King Charles of England.

[Brad]

King of England.

[Alan Donegan]

He publishes honours lists. So people that have done something of note in the country to contribute to society or community, charitable stuff, what have you. We were included on that list in summer of last year and we were given British Empire medals for services to financial education, for the work that we do in Rebel Finance School.

[Katie Donegan]

And we're going to be picking them up at the Tower of London. And I believe you're coming along, Brad.

[Brad]

I believe that's right. You guys are absolutely incredible and you have a very incredibly finite space for the number of people that can join and you invited me and that is truly a once in a lifetime thing. And I simply. That was just the easiest. Yes. In the entire world. So thank you for. Yeah, just being incredible friends and a huge congratulations. I mean huge. This is enormous. And you guys are just so deserving. It's really remarkable.

[Alan Donegan]

Thank you.

[Katie Donegan]

Thank you. Yeah. Someone on the Rebel Finance School course watched the course and put us forward for the honor. They said, oh, you should be honored by the King for this. They filled out the form, sent it off and we're. Yeah, on the rung of the British Empire stuff.

[Brad]

And now that is like Knighthood, Order British Empire. Like what are the different. There's five different levels or something like that. I'm showing my ignorance here. But there's some finite number of these levels. Correct.

[Alan Donegan]

There's many different levels. And the knighthoods are one of the things that the King gives in these honors lists. So it starts with the entry level. You know, we're the British Empire Medal.

[Brad]

You're going to start somewhere. You gotta start somewhere.

[Alan Donegan]

And then you get Order of the British Empire, obe, Member of the British Empire MBE. And Alan is particularly excited about the next one.

[Katie Donegan]

Cbe, Commander of the British Empire. I would love to be Commander Donegan.

[Alan Donegan]

And then all the way up to knighthood and damehood. And it's all just quite surreal, really. We have also been invited to a royal garden party which will be going to that at Buckingham palace in May as well.

[Katie Donegan]

Yeah, if I didn't take my mum to that one, she would throw me off a bridge. Yeah.

[Alan Donegan]

Brad's not invited to that one.

[Brad]

No. All right, well, I guess mom takes precedent, but that's going to be incredible. And again, just a huge congrats to you both. I really wanted to take a minute and just say it is remarkable what you both have done. And I think that's also frankly why you're here today, is you too are trying in almost every discipline to get the word out about financial independence. And I'd love to just have you take a minute before we get into it and talk about this latest project, one of many you're working on. But the one one we're here to.

[Katie Donegan]

Discuss, the one we're here to discuss today is we have formed a band called, called the Revolutionaries. And that is also a sentence I was not expecting to say. Last year with our friend Finn, who we met on Chautauqua, he wrote us a song. We started writing songs, and then someone between the three of us said it.

[Alan Donegan]

Was probably you, Alan. Let's be honest about this. The man with the ideas and the let's make stuff happen.

[Katie Donegan]

Someone said we should write an entire album charting the journey to financial independence, from earning your first dollar to investing, to compounding to quitting and everything in between. So we've produced the world's first financial independence album.

[Brad]

Wow. Okay. I like the sound of that. The world's first financial independence album. That's incredible. So where is this out now? Where can people find it? Before we get into. I know we're going to play at least four of the songs today. Where can people find this? I don't want you to hit stop if you're listening to this. Please don't hit stop and go listen now. Just wait. Wait for the episode to be over. But let's talk about it.

[Katie Donegan]

So you'll be able to find it on Spotify, Apple Music, all the major platforms, and you'll just be able to search for revolutionaries.

[Alan Donegan]

And the album is called Money Revolution.

[Katie Donegan]

Money Revolution. And we'll also. You should be able to just Google us and find our website and you'll be able to listen to the tracks wherever you are.

[Brad]

Okay, I like it. And just for clarity, because sometimes it's hard to hear. That is revolutionary. So they have the Rebel Finance goal. R E B E L so Rebel Uchenaries. So yeah, we will have that, obviously, in the show notes, so you can click and you don't have to type it, but should be easy to find.

[Katie Donegan]

Yes.

[Brad]

Okay, friends. So I think how we're going to do this is we are going to play four songs in their entirety. And ultimately, the way that you wrote this album is okay. Yeah. They genuinely. And I've listened to it, as you well know. You gave me a sneak peek in Bali. The songs are great. They're really listenable, but ultimately it's the point behind them. Right. And that's why we're spending an episode on this, which is, okay, we're going to talk about four distinct parts of the financial independence journey. And this episode is going to be. I think it's going to be fun because we're going to really slow down. We're going to listen to the song, we're going to go through the lyrics, and we're going to talk about what are the lessons. Why, in the finite space that you had in an album, why did you pick these four songs out of a finite number? In this case, 21 different songs. But why did we pick these four? And I think that's really a good starting point. And you guys wanted to start with the Choose a Vi song. So we're going to cue that up now. Hey, guys, I'm gonna. I'm gonna run with this.

[Finn]

Another paycheck down the drain Chasing dreams that feel like borrowed loans 40 bucks for organic free range chicken Paycheck dwindles clock keeps ticking had my money tied down with Eddie Jones High fees weighing heavy like a stone returns were bleak Trust was thin I just don't know how to win choose F5. Choose life. Choose F5. Choose F5. Choose freedom.

[Alan Donegan]

Yes.

[Finn]

Choose fi.

[Brad]

Choose F5.

[Finn]

Choose life. Choose f5. Choose F5. Choose Freedom. You choose F5. Cut the cords on the shiny toys so the freedom in a dead flight Every life Dining in, not draining while it's dry Living life on my terms now every penny's got a purpose Tagged future's brightest since the old ways lagged Freedom gained from every dollar saved Autonomy from everyone per said change choose fi. Choose life. Choose fi. Choose fi. Choose freedom.

[Katie Donegan]

Yeah.

[Finn]

Choose F. With each episode, my mindset starts to shift. The guys on the podcast giving me the lift of financial independence. A life redefined step by step Leaving the old grind behind.

[Brad]

Choose F5. Choose freedom. Yeah. Choose F5.

[Finn]

I'm not chasing someone else's dreams Charting my own course Sweat and toil gave way to peace of mind Finally Free from corporate grind.

[Brad]

Well, that turned out quite well, didn't it? Oh, I love that. The ending.

[Alan Donegan]

It might not be obvious from that, that the bits at the beginning and the end that a Brad's voice are on the track.

[Katie Donegan]

That is not actually Brad's voice.

[Alan Donegan]

That is not him saying that in the intro and out tutor introducing the song, which is really cool. It's so great to have your voice on the album.

[Brad]

Oh, man. Yeah. I was honored when you. When you said, hey, can we get it? So that was super cool. That was super cool. Okay. I love this song. Obviously, super upbeat and. Yeah, there's some great stuff here. So. Okay, how do we want to go through this?

[Katie Donegan]

Well, I think when you came up with the name of the podcast, Brad, why did you elect for Choose Fi? Like, where did the name of the podcast come from?

[Brad]

Yeah. So I think everything about our messaging has always been about taking action. And you are actively choosing financial independence. You're not just grazing through life. You're not letting things happen to you. You are standing up and you're making a choice to say, I want my life to be better. I'm choosing financial independence. And that's the inception.

[Katie Donegan]

I love that. And that was kind of the purpose of the song was to actually have that message. Can you imagine if people are playing this at home and the kids are running around going, choose Fi. And they're all singing along? We actually want people to repeat that. I'm choosing it. And that was the message.

[Alan Donegan]

We see it as part of the indoctrination of, you know, the nation and the world that people get humming these things. And it's uplifting as well. We want this to inspire people as they're working towards it and make them feel part of a tribe even more as well. Because it's like, I listen to that podcast. I know what that's about.

[Brad]

Yeah, I love it. And I'm just going through some of the verses here, right? And it's. It really starts off very simply, another paycheck down the drain, Right? And I feel like it's almost like Groundhog Day for most people. Year after year, decade after decade, I tell people, hey, you're gonna wake up unless you're intentional, unless you actually try to save your money, you're going to spend it all, and you're going to wake up at our age, right? You're gonna wake up in your. In your 40s or late 30s and 50s, whatever, and have essentially nothing to show for it financially. Now, does that mean you lived a terrible life no, but I think most people who are just grazing through life, they're just going through the motions. It's the same thing over and over. There's no intentionality behind how they spend their money. There's no intentionality behind any aspect of life. It's, hey, I have a pretty good life. I'm going on a vacation or two a year, I have a couple nice cars, we go out to eat and who knows, right? But it, but when you look back on it, it does feel like that just was down the drain. It's. You're not really doing anything specific and overt with it, which is amazing.

[Katie Donegan]

The average person earns several million in their lifetime just from the fact that they have X wage of X number of years and then you get to the end of it and they have nothing to show for it. And we have people who come on the rebel finance school that are 50, 60, 65 and they're trying to fix this. Now if we could just get the 20 year olds and the 30 year olds saying I choose financial independence, I choose to sort out my finances, what a different world that would be.

[Alan Donegan]

Which I think at this point is worth pointing out that if you are in your 50s, 60s, it's not too late for you to improve your situation.

[Brad]

Absolutely not.

[Alan Donegan]

It's just a wake up call, isn't it? To say let's do something different from now.

[Brad]

Yeah.

[Katie Donegan]

So Brad, the second verse had my money tied down with Eddie Jones. High fees weighing heavy like a stone Returns were bleak Trust was thin I just don't know how to win. Where did that. Because you helped us write these lyrics. Where did that come from?

[Brad]

Yeah, well, I think we use Edward Jones as kind of the, the boogeyman for. Not that they're any worse maybe than, than probably anybody else, but they're just kind of typify the hey, you're going in. You see one of these places on every street corner in every small town in America. And I think a lot of people who, who go to financial advisors, so let's take a step back and from Edward Jones necessarily, but just financial advisors generally they think they're doing something right. Like hey, I've managed to save some money, I have some money to invest. What do I do? I couldn't possibly understand this. That's what everybody thinks because the financial services industry makes it seem like it's complicated because they want to enrich themselves. So of course they want it to seem complicated. Right. And you say high fees and that's really one of the biggest drags on our overall investment return. And really our net worth is these fairly small, seemingly small investment fees. So you'll see when you go to a financial advisor, they'll charge what's known as an AUM fee. So it's assets under management. Right. And it doesn't sound like a lot. Oh, we're just going to charge you 1%. You don't have to pay us. Right? Like this is the gimmick. You don't have to pay us. Okay, well, alarm bells should be going off anytime you hear you don't have to pay us. I mean, they're technically right in the sense that you're not cutting them a check. There's no time where you will hand them a pile of cash or cut them a check for something, but they take 1% of your assets every year. Okay. And again, it doesn't sound like much, but they're also, because they want to prove how smart they are and how worthwhile their advice is, they're not going to put you in a low cost mutual fund or etf, right, Like a VTI or vtsax. They're going to put you in some expensive fund. And interestingly, I don't think you guys knew this, but about a month ago, the end of February, in my newsletter, which I send out every Tuesday, I had a section called the impact of fees on your investments. Okay. So I actually looked at just the simplest way possible. I was talking about somebody who's on the coast phi path. So they've managed to save up $500,000. Okay? So they've been working, let's say for 10 or 15 years. They have 500 grand saved up and they just want to coast on into fi, which means they're not saving any more money, they're just earning enough to cover their expenses. Basically, I said, okay, let's look at this a couple of different scenarios over 30 years. So now that money is just compounding in the background. I said if we assume over 30 years, an 8% average annual market return. So that's just kind of the back of the envelope. If that money compounded at that full 8%, it would turn into $5,031,000. Okay, wow. Amazing. Because. Right. It doubles literally every nine years. Right? So it's three doublings, which is million to four, and then three years left over, which is, isn't it wild? Like even the three of us who understand compounding, it's crazy to think about. So that's not realistic because there are expense ratios on any fund. So I just looked at VTI, which is Vanguard's total stock market ETF, and said, okay, that's a.03 expense ratio. So the best case scenario you could do realistically is losing $41,000 to fees over those 30 years. So you're left with 4,990,000. Pretty amazing. Okay, let's say you decided to go with some financial advisor who by some freak chance said, okay, well, you're with me, but I'm going to put you in VTI. So you lose 1% for assets under management and the.003 for the VTI expense ratio. Now, instead of having 5,031,000 like the original, you actually have 3,774,000. So you've lost over $1.25 million to fees. That's just from that 1%. Okay, and now let's look at the final example, which is the more realistic example. You go to a 1% assets under management advisor who then puts you in an actively managed mutual fund or ETF with a 1% expense ratio. So now instead of getting the 8% market return, you're getting a 6% net return. Now your net worth that you're left with is 2.872 million, which means you've lost 43% of your net worth. You've lost over $2.1 million. That's why we say fees matter. They mean more than almost anything.

[Alan Donegan]

Also, I think that's incredibly generous to say that the actively managed fund is going to return as well as an index fund.

[Brad]

Touche. That is a brilliant point, Katie. I suspended disbelief and said, okay, let's even assume that. So, yeah, most likely it would be dramatically worse. You would literally lose more than half of your net worth.

[Alan Donegan]

Almost invariably that nearly happened to us. When I first started investing, I didn't know any better. Someone rang me up whilst I was at work and said, would you like to invest your money and build your wealth? And I thought, yes, yes, I would.

[Brad]

Of course I would, of course.

[Katie Donegan]

And he went to his swanky offices in London. He had the swanky three piece suit. I don't know if swanky translates to America.

[Brad]

Oh, that translates, don't you worry.

[Katie Donegan]

Okay.

[Alan Donegan]

And they did a risk assessment for me and said, basically asked me, are you okay with losing money? I said no. So they put me in a cautious fund. I was in my early 20s, so I had 50% bonds, 50% stocks, and we had incredibly high fees. The entry fee, I had to pay 3% of anything that I put in. So if I put in 100 pounds. I only get to invest 97 of them. The fund fee was 1.61% and the platform fee.

[Katie Donegan]

So the fee to the advisor was 0.8. It was total 2.21%. So you had an entry fee plus 2.21 and you did the sums to work out what that actually would have cost us.

[Alan Donegan]

Well, we dug out the paperwork and it was the two of us, me and Alan, and an incredibly intelligent friend of ours, Matt, who has a first class degree from Cambridge. He's a clever stick. The three of us spent three hours trying to understand the fee structure of these funds that I had been originally invested in. Luckily, in an alternate reality, we discovered financial independence index investing, low cost way of investing. But we worked out that if we'd have stuck with the financial advisor, we would have about a million pounds. It's like pretty good. As opposed to our current net worth, which is 2.3 million.

[Katie Donegan]

We wouldn't be financial independent if we stayed with the wealth management company. We have this saying that wealth management companies only make one person wealthy and it's your advisor, it's not you.

[Brad]

Wow, that is incredible. So that's almost 60% of your net worth would have been just poof, gone, evaporated. Unbelievable. Yeah. And again, it's just about education. I think that's what we're trying to do here, right, Is at the end of the day, we're just trying to make you see, hey, there is a better way. And I think that's actually how the song finishes up. Right. It's Every penny's got a purpose My future's brighter Freedom gained from every dollar saved. Right. With each episode, my mindset starts to shift. Giving me the lifts. Right. Like a life redefined. These are all the things I'm just. Yeah. I'm so. I'm so thankful that you. You nailed it. I mean, you nailed the whole message of Choose a Vi and really the entire concept of five. This is an empowering mindset. That's why people get excited about it. That's why we've had evangelists listening to this podcast for eight years who tell their friends about it because it is uplifting. It's empowering, and you feel like you're part of something. You feel like you can actually do this as opposed to. Again, what does the financial services industry do? They try to make it complex. They make you believe you could not possibly do this. And we make it the exact opposite. You can't help but do it. All you have to do is live below Your means and save in low cost index funds, essentially. Right. Like if you wanted back of the envelope, save as much money as you can, invest in low cost funds and wake up really wealthy.

[Alan Donegan]

I feel like I'm riled up, Brad. I'm like, come on, let's go, let's get the money.

[Brad]

This is the whole purpose of it. This is the way he wrote the album. Katie, come on.

[Katie Donegan]

Well, that's why we also had the line in there. With each episode, my mindset starts to shift because it's not always a quick journey for people. Like, you can tell people what to do, but it's your mindset that has to shift. So listening to Brad, Jonathan, Ginger, the podcast, every single week, the message starts to go in. And that's why we've done the music. You can play the tracks in the morning, you can listen to them. You can indoctrinate the kids in the back of the car by listening to compounding song and you'll just have fun. And those messages of positivity, possibility, buying your freedom first. Choosing financial independence, that's what we want people to have. Soak into their soul.

[Brad]

Okay, I like that. Soak into your soul. And yeah, guys, that was. That was really great. And thank you for. I know you wanted me to really talk about that particular song, so thanks for indulging me. So you mentioned compounding. I think that is the next song. So this is the title of the next song we're going to listen to is precisely Compounding.

[Unknown Singer]

In a world of spending I'm here to say there's a secret to riches I share today it's not about income but how much you'll save Compound interest is the game will play oh, yeah Compound watch the market grow Compounding there's no way to go Save, save, save yes Save your, save your door Save your do Invest your money and watch it grow Watch it grow Compound interest is the key to a future of financial security Start early, my friend and don't delay Small amounts can go a long way Let it grow and watch your wealth ACCRUE Retire at 40 it's all up to you all up to you Compound Watch the market grow Compounding it's the way to go Go Save your toe Save your toe Invest your money and watch it go Watch it.

[Brad]

Go.

[Unknown Singer]

To a future of financial security Save, save, save yes Save your, save your door Save your do Invest your money and watch it grow watch it grow Compound interest is the key to a future of financial security.

[Brad]

Oh, I love that ending. That's amazing. All right, so talk to us about compounding. But it's not just compounding, right? It's as you said, it's not about income, but how much you save. I think to me, that's really the message here.

[Katie Donegan]

And that crazy figure of like, imagine if you had, I don't know, let's pick a profession, someone who earns a lot of money. Who earns a lot of money. Physicians, A physician, whatever it is, they earn 200 grand a year, but they save 20 to invest. And then you have a waitress who earns or a waiter that earns 20 grand a year and saves two. You go, which one retires earliest? Well, the answer, as we all know, is they retire at the same time because their Savings rate is 10%, both of them. And it's not about those overall numbers. It's about how much are you putting away. And then that compounds. And that's the power. And I think you had a message in your newsletter, Brad. It was like, compounding is confusing at the beginning and confusing at the end. And Katie and I have found this. We got super confused at the start because we're like, these people promised me that compounding would help me. Nothing is happening. I want to throw my toys out of the pram. This is rubbish. Why would I continue to save? And it was super confusing. And then at the end, our portfolio can swing up by a hundred grand in a month. I'm like, how did this happen? I don't understand. So I think compounding is one of those things that you struggle to understand at either end of the journey.

[Alan Donegan]

It's the change. And it's also remembering that when you set your financial independence target, it can feel very overwhelming to a lot of people thinking, well, how on earth am I ever going to save a million, two million, whatever your figure is. And the beauty of compounding is that you don't have to save all of it. You put your money in and then the money starts working for you. And it's so exciting when you first see that happen and then you watch.

[Katie Donegan]

It grow, grow, grow.

[Brad]

Yeah, it is truly remarkable. I think that's the wildest thing. Like, I don't think any of the three of us think of ourselves as old, right? And yet we have gotten to the point where we have seven figures of net worth, right? And what's remarkable is when you see a year like last year, 2024, where the market goes up more than 20 plus percent. I mean, if you have a million dollars net worth and the market goes up 20%, that means without doing anything, just sitting on your behind, your net worth goes up 200 grand. That is unbelievable. I mean, that's more money than I've ever made in a year working my 9 to 5 as a CPA or corporate tax manager. That's double the highest year of income I ever earned. And that's what's so wild. Like, when you think about how powerful it can be. And I think that's really, at the beginning, like you're saying, Katie, it doesn't seem like much. And Alan, to your point, like, it's a little confusing on both ends because you can't imagine how powerful it is at the end. You literally can't. Right? Because if you think about it, if you live to be a hundred, let's say, well, 75%, just mathematically, by definition, 75% of your net worth will have come from the time you were 82 to a hundred, right? If we say that, it doubles every nine years. So in 18 years, so nine years prior, at 91, you'd have 50% of your net worth. And nine years prior to that, you'd have 25% of your net worth. So the math works the exact same, no matter what, which is what's so insane about this.

[Alan Donegan]

That's true.

[Brad]

And I love Katie's math brain is worrying. I can see it in her eyes. But at the beginning, it doesn't seem like much, right? Because if you have $1,000 saved up, well, 20% return on that is 200 bucks, which is not nothing, obviously, because it is this. It's the same percentage, but it just. It doesn't feel like it's doing as much. But I think the important part is we need to take our stupid little brains out of it and realize, like, feeling has nothing to do with this. This is math. So, Katie, I know you're going to want to jump in on that.

[Alan Donegan]

I'm just interested in the mindset. So all the examples we've just given are talking about towards the end, when you see it taking off and you see it compounding, and it feels like it's compounding more quickly? Of course, as you said, Brad, it's compounding at the same rate as it was at the beginning. So how do we inspire and motivate the people at the beginning to stick with it when they're not seeing. They think they're not seeing those returns in the same way.

[Katie Donegan]

So for me, it would be every time you log into Fidelity Vanguard, whatever your platform is, and you invest some money, play this song, just put it streaming in the background, singing, compounding. It's the way to go. And like, drum it into your mind that that is what is happening. And then I think listening to the stories of people who are. Who are slightly further down the journey than you. I don't know if we've ever told you this, Brad. Katie and I had a realization a little while ago. We are currently worth more in terms of our net worth than we ever earned. So, like, we've spent more than we've ever earned. Basically, we've lived for free for our entire life. Is what I'm trying to say is we've earned this money and we've spent it each year on living, but we're now worth more than we've ever earned.

[Brad]

That's incredible. So if you took your salaries for each of your respective careers and added them up, just put them on a spreadsheet, added them up, the number that would come total then is actually less than your current net worth.

[Katie Donegan]

Way less. Like, absolutely. Way less. Like, basically, we have lived for free our entire life, which I just can't get my head around. And why am I telling everyone this? Because I want to inspire them. You will not be able to get your head around compounding in a way that you really want to at the start. You have to trust and invest and just get your money in there and we can tell all these stories and hopefully it inspires people. But you'll never get your head around compounding totally. It's just like we weren't designed to be able to understand it. Human brains, right?

[Brad]

Human brains think in a linear fashion, not in an exponential fashion. It's just the way it works. But I think what's so important and really the article that changed my life and has changed a lot of people's lives was our good friend Pete, Mr. Money Mustache. His shockingly simple math behind early retirement. And he just has a really simple chart in here, and it's your savings rate percentage wise. And then in the next column, it's just, then, therefore, you're working years until retirement. And I think frankly, he, like, he might even be a little conservative on this from. From what I've seen when doing the calculations right. But he basically says, hey, if you save 50% of your income, you have to work for 17 years. And I think that is a little conservative. It's probably more like 13 or 14 from the numbers that I've run. And you both are nodding along vigorously. But nevertheless, I think what this savings rate does is it gives us. And frankly, the Phi number generally, which is just, hey, what is my life cost annually multiplied by 25, right? So if your life costs 80 grand per year, your FI number is $2 million, okay? Those two things can give us this North Star for. Oh, finance isn't nebulous. Oh, can I ever retire? You hear all this BS in the media, like, can I ever retire? What am I going to do? It's. It's impossible. No, it's not impossible. That's maybe the single biggest thing we've done in the 5 movement is said, okay, this is so possible. Very, very possible in the sense that you control it. What is your life cost multiplied by 25? And you know very precisely, if I save this percentage of my income, it's this many years I have to work. And to your point earlier, Katie, of course, we're not giving up on people who are finding this in their 50s, 60s, and beyond, because it's just a math game. At the end of the day, it's a numbers game.

[Alan Donegan]

I also have a little bit of a bee in my bonnet about the term savings rate. So a lot of people come onto our rebel finance school and they're like, I used to think I was really good with money. You know, I had enough money to go on vacation and to kind of feel like I could do whatever I want and enjoy time with my friends, go out to eat. And they say I'm really good at saving. But what they're saying is they're good at saving for spending in the future. So I want to start us calling it the investing rate. It's not about how much you save, it's how much you're actually investing. Because I can save a bunch of cash and leave it sat there in my checking account and it's not working for me. Or I can save a bunch of cash and say, well, that's earmarked for a holiday or vacation that I'm going on next year. But that's not providing for me in the future. And that's why I want to call it investing rate. So that is my plea to the financial independence community. You heard it here first. Let's start calling it the investing rate.

[Brad]

Oh, I like that. You heard it here first. Damn. I mean, that is really very accurate because. Right. It's two parts ultimately, Katie. Right. Which is what? The investing rate, it nullifies these two aspects of the quote unquote savings rate, which is a lot of people just save money, but it's just delayed spending. They're going to spend it at some point and Also, a lot of people with good intention save money and then don't invest it. It just sits there. And that is not the path to long term wealth. It really isn't. You need to invest this money. So I like it. I wonder if I can start working that into the vernacular here.

[Katie Donegan]

We've got one vote for investing rate.

[Alan Donegan]

Already and actually maybe take it one step further. We've also started calling it the freedom rate because you're investing for freedom.

[Katie Donegan]

Well, that's the whole point. The choose fi song, the choose financial independence, the choose freedom. You're choosing to invest money to buy back time. And that I think is the whole game is you buy back your time and you can do whatever you want with it. You can hang out with Brad in Singapore and go on roller coasters. You can travel around the world. You can spend time with your grandkids. You can build a tree house in the back garden.

[Alan Donegan]

Can we do that?

[Katie Donegan]

Yes. You can buy back your time to do whatever you want, which is the whole game.

[Brad]

Alan, you had an entire list and you didn't say Lego, I'm sure.

[Alan Donegan]

What's wrong with you?

[Katie Donegan]

It's because I don't own a house. I have to buy a house. If I have to buy Lego, put.

[Alan Donegan]

It in a tree mask.

[Brad]

Oh, goodness. Thanks for listening to Choose a Vi and for all your support of our mission here. The absolute best way to support Choose a Pie is when you sign up for your next rewards credit card to use our cards page at choose a vi.com/cards. I keep this page constantly updated so it should always be the top resource for you. Thanks for being part of our community and for your support. Okay, guys, that was fantastic. I think we're going to move on to the third song which is the Boring Middle.

[Unknown Singer]

I've heard it called the Boring middle Where the grind never ends but this is where I built my strength and learned to love the journey it ain't about the numbers or the dollars that I save it's the habits and the health I gain in preparing for the freedom I crave it ain't the foreign metal oh, it's the best part.

[Brad]

It'S.

[Unknown Singer]

Time for health and happiness Ooh, I'm ready for life so don't rush through the middle Take your time, enjoy the ride for it's in the so called boring part that we truly come alive Every step a lesson learned Every day a chance to grow in the middle we find our peace and the joy that only we can know Focus on the present Embrace the now the Middle's where we make our vow to live with purpose, to live with grace so we are ready when we reach that place it ain't the foreign middle it's the best part it's time for health and happiness Ooh, I'm ready for life so don't rush through the middle Take your time, enjoy the ride for it's in the so called boring part that we truly come alive.

[Brad]

I like that. I like that a lot. Oh, I also wanted to note that every single one of these songs is a completely different genre, which is really cool.

[Katie Donegan]

You wait for the rap songs later.

[Brad]

Ah. Okay, nice. We got a little bit of everything. I love it. So this one's important. And I like how we're kind of methodically going through the FI journey here, right? So clearly you picked these four songs for a reason. The boring Middle. I think this has become an affectionate thing because we've tried to really nullify it in essence, by saying, like, it isn't the boring middle. This is the best part. These are. These are the years where I think, frankly, the actual numbers and the math part of Phi, that's the first couple years, right? Like, once you figure out your money, that is the easiest part of life. But now, that's not to say that this is simple, right, And. Or that it's overnight, but once you figured it out, I think we would all agree that is the easy part. But the hard part is, okay, I have these years now between where I am and my fine number. And A, I still have to keep working throughout these intervening years. And B, more importantly, I need to experiment in life and try to figure out what lights me up, what do I want to do when I do get to Fi or whatever version of Fi that I see fit for my life. And I think that's something that's really changed in the FI community, really, over the last eight years, is it's not just. It's 0 or 1. I'm not FI or I'm FI. I think that's. That was the pre 2017 version of FI. And now there are all these flavors of phi, and I think that's what's fun. But it doesn't take away from the fact that we all need to figure out what the heck we're here for, what we're trying to do, how we enjoy our years both now and beyond. So I'd love to hear. Hear what you think about the boring middle and just how important is why it was so important that you wrote a song about it.

[Alan Donegan]

I really don't like it when people say I'm in the boring middle because it makes a little part of my soul die because it sounds so sad. It's like I'm just trudging through life and it's really boring and I'm just waiting to get to this number.

[Katie Donegan]

Promised land, the future, which, as we.

[Alan Donegan]

All know, well, the three of us know, nothing magically happens when you hit financial independence. And I want to take these people and say, this is the cool part. This is the part where you figure out what life is about. You've automated your finances. You have the time and the space because you've got those finances automated to figure out what lights you up to work on your health, to work on your happiness so that when you have the freedom of time, location, possibly as well, you can do some cool stuff with it.

[Brad]

Yeah.

[Katie Donegan]

Which for me it's about doing the cool stuff along the way and not waiting for that number. Because if you've automated your finances, if you sort it all out like it's not, it's not easy, but it's not that difficult. Invest in vt, invest in vti, put it in a tax Advantage account and then get on with living your life. And I've been so inspired by watching Brad's fitness journey. The man has more muscles than I think he had. Like he has more muscles in one arm now than he did in his entirety when he started.

[Alan Donegan]

I think his muscles are compounding.

[Katie Donegan]

They are compounding.

[Alan Donegan]

It's not linear, it's exponential.

[Katie Donegan]

But he's using his time for health and building habits and being present and going on roller coasters with his kids and living life. And just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't live your life. So to everyone who's listening this right now, how can you do some of the things you wanted to do in financial independence now? How can you work on your health, live the happy life, spend time with your kids, don't wait for the end. It ain't the boring middle. It's the best part. Let's live life. Now.

[Alan Donegan]

I have this vision of people sat just staring at their spreadsheets waiting for time to pass. And I just want them to go and live their lives.

[Brad]

Yeah, I mean, our lives are so finite. Right. You cannot wish away any portion of a 80 to 100 year life. You can't. Especially not an insignificant amount. Right. We're talking for most people, that time, from when they figured out their money to when they officially hit financial independence is most likely going to be 8 to 15 years or maybe more, frankly. Right? So to wish away 10 to 20% of your. Of your life, it makes no sense. So like Katie's saying, sitting in front of spreadsheet, just watching your money grow, that's not the recipe for a successful life. It truly is not. And as you guys put in the song, focus on the present, embrace the now. And I think how I viewed life, certainly these past 10 years is it's an experiment and things are constantly changing. If we know one thing about life, it's that everything changes. It always does. And if you think it's going to be stagnant or be the same 10, 20, 30 years from now, I'm here to tell you there's no chance, there's no chance of that. You're going to grow in so many ways. You can't imagine. Could any of the three of us have imagined we'd be sitting here today, 10 years ago? It would be laughable. Utterly laughable, Right? Like, it's. It's insane. So, yeah, I think this is the fun part. This is the experimenting part. And also then you get to this point where, like us, we have complete or essentially complete control over our time. And I was talking with a good friend on the phone yesterday and we were talking about, like, just how fortunate we are that our quote, unquote work, if you will, which is all voluntary, is very finite. And we can do whatever we want with our time. And we can spend hours at the gym each week. We can spend time. I have phone calls every single week with great friends of mine. And just whoever it is that week, like, what a cool thing. Like, even if these people don't live in my same city in this day and age, with WhatsApp video chat, you can talk to anybody. With Zoom or Google Meet, it's so. It's free. It you just hop on, you can talk to people. Like, that's what I think is so fun about fi, is it is on your terms and however you define that. But let's be clear, you need to define it. You have to figure it out. And you also have to understand that even once you've defined it, it might change a little bit. And I know you two are actually perfect cases in point, right? You've been traveling for the better part of 5 years now not living in any home base. And I think travel looked very different for you at the beginning than it does now with really something more akin to, hey, we're going to stay in a couple places for two, three, four plus months. Across a year and make that a.

[Katie Donegan]

Life, really, it changes constantly. And I think that's the fun part is you have complete permission to reinvent yourself at any moment. People will not like that. You know that thing, like, if a politician ever changes their mind, they will get absolutely rinsed for changing your mind. But actually, what we should be saying is, like, I learned something new and I've changed my opinion. And we should celebrate that. You don't have to be consistent. You can reinvent yourself. Like, what I would love to say to people is, if you're not happy with the way things are, change it. People are always saying to me, I don't like my job. Well, let's change it then. And I kind of look left and right and go, like, what's stopping you?

[Brad]

Can I do that?

[Alan Donegan]

Which I think part of it is they can change the way they're thinking about their job as well.

[Katie Donegan]

Yeah, you can change the way you think about the job. You can change the people you work with. You can change where you are, where you're going. You can completely reinvent yourself. So if you catch yourself saying, I'm in the boring middle. We need to reinvent what's going on so you're having fun. Do not waste those years of your life at any point. Which kind of actually brings us neatly on to the last song, which is about wasting years of your life. And I've done it. Everyone, like, no one is immune to it. You kind of get stuck in things that aren't serving you, and you just do them. And it's almost as if staying where you are. The pain of staying where you are is less than the pain of moving to something you don't know. And we evaluate it with that, oh, I don't like where I am, but who knows if I like where I go? So we stay where we are. And at some point, you just have to take a leap and make things happen. And it's when I've. Let's be fair. I didn't always take the leap. Sometimes I was kicked. I was fired from my last job. I didn't choose to leave. They chose to leave me. But that firing turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me. And sometimes the universe needs to kick you to get you to do things. And I guess what we're trying to say to everyone here is, is don't wait for the universe to fire you, to give you a health problem, for something to go wrong. Change now. Change before the universe asks you to change and go and live your life completely.

[Brad]

Yeah. Yeah. That is it. It's take action. Right? This is what we're all constantly saying in our own. In our own verbiage. But take action. You have to. You have to. So that is the perfect segue to the fourth and final song we're going to play today, which is One more year.

[Unknown Singer]

Should I work Just one more year? Another day just like the past Counting down but moving fast Time tick tocking on its own Afraid to live a life unknown Held back by gnar in fear and doubt Clocking in then clocking out Nest egg never seems a new now what Should I, should I work Just one more year? No, no, no, no no more wasted years Life's too short to live and fear One more year will keep me safe Just one more year I'll be okay Done the Samsung a thousand times God plans ABC through the O Should I, should I work? Work Just one more year? No, no, no, no, no no more wasted years Life's too short to live in fear oh, should I work through Just one more year? Should I, should I work?

[Brad]

What?

[Unknown Singer]

Just one more year? No, no, no, no, no no more wasted years Life too shall in fear Doubts keep swelling in your head Scared to jump what if I fall? Stay in put avoiding pain Blend and take the easy way Life too short to live in doubt Take the leap Let joy come out Find new passions be unleashed Live a life that's truly.

[Brad]

Live.

[Unknown Singer]

Should I, should I, should I, should I, should I, should I? No, no, no, no, no no more wasted years Life's too short to let go and fear no, my wasted years no, my wasted years no, my wasted years no, my wasted years Life too short to.

[Brad]

Oh, I like that one. That song sounds like a hit. That's a great sounding song. Not for nothing.

[Alan Donegan]

Thank you.

[Brad]

So the message, more importantly, one more year. I think this is something that plagues a lot of people in the fight community. Talk to me about it.

[Katie Donegan]

This one more year thing. Every event we've been on, we met you in Bali at Amy Minkley's financial freedom retreat. We went to Tribe Fi in Australia. We went to Black Friday in New Zealand. There's people there at every single one who have more than enough money. They have multiples over multiples. It's not like the 4%, it's the 2%. And they won't do it. They just won't quit. And as if they're stuck and we just want to shout to people. It's not as if they're in jobs. They love either they tell us like, oh, I want to leave, but they won't. And then we grill them about their numbers and then you find out later they've got a spare pension of 100 grand that they didn't count because they're like, no, I don't count that. And we're just trying to get them to go. The maths is. The maths. The maths works. Just leave and get on with living your life. No more wasted years. No more wasted time. Go and do what you want to do. That's the key message.

[Alan Donegan]

It reminds me of something that Carl, Mr. 1500, said, which is people are scared that they're going to run out of money, when actually they should be more scared they're going to run out of life. They need to get on. We all need to. This is a message for me and us and all of us as much as anyone else, that life is too short to live in fear. And maybe you're not doing it with One more Year syndrome. It even has a name in the fire community because it's such a big thing. Such a thing, the One More Year syndrome. But in what other ways might you be stopping yourself from doing something that you've been wanting to do? Like stop wasting that time and stop living in fear and get on with it. I'm talking mostly to myself at the moment.

[Brad]

Yeah, I mean, this is, this is a big issue. I think a lot of us are naturally a little conservative with our money, certainly. Right. And there's always that little vein of fear that runs through us. But what it does is I think people are looking for certainty. And I think it's. It's so misguided, right? Like you are taking a guaranteed certainty of wasting additional years. Year or years, right. In this case of working at a job when you really don't need to in most cases, because you have built in so many layers of conservatism to your numbers, right? Like you've padded your expenses by 10 or 20%. You've not included here in the U.S. social Security, you've said, oh, I'm just going to take a 3% withdrawal rate. Right? So, like, this is not a one more year syndrome. That's. In that case, that's probably a five more year syndrome. And even still, it's hard for people to stop working. And I think that is something we need to get over because, yeah, okay, you might have a 98% chance of this working, right? But in that case, you didn't waste five. You didn't guarantee waste five Years or one to five years in a job. So I think we need to reassess risk is really the most succinct way of putting it. We need to reassess risk because what's riskier, truly? Is it, hey, I've wasted five years of a finite life, or is it. There is a minuscule 0 to 2% chance, and I'm making these numbers up, obviously, but 0 to 2% chance that I'm going to have to go back to work for some small amount of money for a couple of years. Right. Like, that's what we're talking about here. And I think that, to me, is what's most frustrating about the whole concept of one more year syndrome, which I.

[Katie Donegan]

Always had this theory of you can choose your risk. Risk is inherent. There's always a risk, but you get to decide which one it is. Do you want to risk running out of life? Do you want to risk running out of money? Do you want to risk running out of working? Like time? You can choose your risk. The question is, which one do you want? And I had a thought as we were talking, Brad, could you have retired earlier? Like, looking back at your number, could you have gone earlier? Like, what's happened since? Did you, like, without knowing, do this?

[Brad]

Yeah, that is. That's interesting. So I think my story, my five journey, is inextricably linked with entrepreneurship, so it's harder to say. I think what I can definitively say is under the new understanding of fi, which to me is something more akin to a Coast Phi or a Lean Fi or whatever, barista, whatever these different options are. But let's say Coastfi. Coastfi, most specifically, when I stopped working in early 2015, I think for me it was again, it was that 0 or 1. It was. I'm not fi technically, so I need to keep earning a good bit of money, like my CPA salary kind of money. And that was. Those were the only options. Whereas I think, to really answer your question, like, at that point, I had this small website called Richmond Savers that was making a little bit of money, you know, maybe a thousand or, I don't even know, I don't remember, but a thousand or two thousand dollars a month, which is not nothing at all. And our lives just didn't cost that much back then. And we were both CPAs. We could have just worked for a month or two during tax season, plus this little bit of money that was coming in from my businesses. Like, I think by any definition, I was coast fi, and probably a year or two earlier, but I didn't realize it because I just didn't know enough. So I think had I not made this jump to entrepreneurship, I think I probably would have succumbed to One Maria syndrome at the time with the limited knowledge that I had. But I think that's what's so cool about, hey, over the last decade, we've all learned a lot about fi. We've all learned a lot more about how this works. And I think the Brad of 2025 would be at the point where, okay, I think I've got this. I understand this, and I'd like to believe that I wouldn't succumb to Juan Maria syndrome. So, Alan, I don't know if that necessarily answered your question, but hopefully it gave a broader answer that's more applicable.

[Katie Donegan]

Well, I think it's interesting. It's a very interesting answer for everyone. The version of financial independence that exists today is far more nuanced, far more accessible for your average person to go, oh, this is the version that I want. This is what I want to do. I still think there are some messages we really need to get home to people, which we've been talking about in this episode. But given what we know now, you actually left work a little bit early, Katie. But given what we know now and what has happened, you go, oh, the power of compounding is far beyond what I could have ever imagined. And if I went back and played the game again, I'd probably invest a bit earlier, I would probably leave a bit earlier. I tweak a few different things, and I would play a lot more into having the time to actually do what I want to do, and a lot more into feeling free to really create things, do things make a difference? And then I guess the reason for answering that question and asking you that question is to share what we've learned with the people listening to the podcast and say, don't work another year. You probably don't need to. We've learned so much about how this works, and every time you're thinking of working another year, play that song or play the compounding song to persuade yourself that you don't have to. And that song, the singer of that song is actually my business partner, Simon Payne. So just get Simon screaming at you, no, no, no, don't do it. Get out there and live your life. No, live your life.

[Brad]

I don't think we could come up with better parting words than that, is, no, no, no, live your life. I think at the end of the day, that's what we all need to do. We need to understand this is truly not a numbers game. Look, obviously the numbers are important, but it's not a numbers game. It's a go out and experiment and figure out what you want out of your life game. And I just want to say to the two of you, you are shining examples of precisely that. And I. I'm so proud to call you friends, great friends. And I'm just so blown away by what you do in the world and just the amazing amount of energy you put into all these projects. You. You have seven different projects going on at once. It's unbelievable. And I'm just consistently blown away. And thank you for putting this album together for the FI community, but really for beyond the FI community. And I think this episode, this episode could be a starting point for fi, frankly, because I think it touched on really four incredibly essential aspects of our entire journey. So thank you for putting it together. I think this is really great.

[Katie Donegan]

It's our pleasure. We absolutely love you and we love the FI community. The FI community and the knowledge that was shared by Pete J.L. collins, the Mad scientist, you that enabled us to buy our freedom. And we almost see it as our duty to share that with a new generation. And that's what we want to do with this. Music is. People teach by blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels, books. But no one's ever written a music album that you can play in a car. When you've got your friend trapped with you for seven hours, you can play it on repeat. They will eventually ask, why are you playing a song about index investing? They'll ask, why is there a song called Quit Like a Millionaire? This is weird. Why is there a song called Badassity? That's a strange word. They will be totally and utterly confused, hopefully in a way that opens their mind to finding out more. And that's our entire purpose.

[Alan Donegan]

Lots of us that find this want to share it with people, don't we? We want to encourage other people to think about their lives in a different way. And when I first discovered financial independence, I went into the very preachy phase. I wish I'd had this tool to sort of pry open the door into a conversation with someone and just pique their interest. And we'd love it if this music was something that could do that for people, for their partner, for their kids, for their friend that they really want to talk to about it.

[Katie Donegan]

Play it at a dinner party. If you're a teacher. Play the compounding song at school whilst you're teaching maths. It's a completely clean Album. There's no swear words even in Quit Like a Millionaire, although there will be an explicit version of that that you can put at home. But play it at a dinner party, play it in the car, play it for your kids, use the music to sing along to the messages. And our hope is we can help an entire new generation of people live these messages. And they'll be singing the Choose Fi anthem at every single Tuesday. If I meet up, we'll play it on the songs. We'll talk about 40 buck organic free range chicken and not buying it and avoiding Eddie Jones and all those messages. And Brad, keep doing what you're doing. Keep sharing the message. Your podcast is just constant inspiration and energy and we admire what you have created.

[Brad]

Thank you my friends. I really appreciate it. And yeah, this is really cool. I absolutely love that you created this.

[Alan Donegan]

I want to give a big acknowledgement to Finn as well. The third member of Revolutionaries who is not on the podcast with us today.

[Katie Donegan]

But is the musical brains.

[Alan Donegan]

He is the musical wizardry that has pulled all these tracks together and he's awesome.

[Brad]

Love it. Yeah, I met Finn at Economy last year and really great guy. And yeah, just a wonderful album. Thank you again. And we have all the links in the show notes. So again it's Revolutionaries. You can find it on Spotify and basically anywhere you can find music. So check it out. And again, thank you for being here.

[Unknown]

Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the Choose5 community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player, just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning. So just head over to Choose Comm slash subscribe and it's really, really easy to get on the the newsletter list right there and I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a vi local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to choose a vi.com local and you'll find a list of all of Those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world and if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways choose a VI episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. And even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up. And it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence. What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then choose If I created a Financial Independence 101 course that's entirely free, just head to choosefi.comfi101 and again, thanks for listening.

[Brad]

It.