← ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
Travel Builds Connections and Unlocks Rewards | Ep 525
01:15:06
Brad shares insights from his life-changing trip to Asia and how it reshaped his perspectives on connection and gratitude. He highlights the importance of direct human interactions and how travel exposes the beauty of our shared humanity. Ginger...
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- [00:00]
Brad
Hello and welcome to Choose a Fight. Today in the show we have a fun one. I have my good friend Ginger back to do a little roundup episode. We're going to talk about the benefits of travel, about connection, my significant trip to Asia that I took and I went on the Five Freedom retreat. We're going to have a voice message from our good friend and colleagues Lynne Mettler and Sean Mulaney. We're going to talk a little bit. A couple of public service announcements that I think are going to be really beneficial and some of Ginger's nonfiction books and that'll be a little, a little teaser for the future. So I think you're really going to enjoy this. And with that, welcome to Choose a Fight. Ginger, it is so good to see you.
- [00:47]
Ginger
Brad. It's good to see you too. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Should we go ahead and jump right in?
- [00:53]
Brad
Let's do it.
- [00:54]
Ginger
Okay, everybody. We are recording this one day after Brad sent the newsletter in which he stated that his trip to Bali changed his life. So instead of starting with, you know, how are the flights and was it worth all the points? We want to start with this question, right? Like, how was your life different, Brad?
- [01:13]
Brad
Okay, this might, might be. Hey, Brad, don't be so hyperbolic next time in the newsletter. I am somewhat prone to hyperbole, I think, but no, that said, it was an extraordinary trip. It really was. I think it was transformative in a lot of ways. So let's start first with I guess the concept of like a mini retirement or a red X month. I think that's ultimately where this started off and I think this is going to be. I really proved to be enduring in the terms of my day to day existence. I think. Ginger, I've talked a lot recently about how maybe I've felt a little bit of burnout. I've felt a little overwhelmed and frustrated and. And frankly, that is all on me. I think that that's one of the interesting things about life is like you live in your head 24 hours a day and everything is. You're the star of your own movie, right? Like everything essentially revolves around you because you are the one who is living with you 24 hours a day. And I think I have not taken steps back recently amidst maybe this bit of burnout to just realize how incredibly fortunate I am in so many ways, not least of which is this. Choose a fai, this amazing thing that, that I helped create and has existed now for eight plus years. And it's easy in the Day to day to get lost in oh man, I'm getting so many emails I have to respond to these things. And just the little day to day stresses as opposed to taking a step back and saying, oh my goodness, I've created something that has been downloaded 70/ million times, has literally changed hundreds of thousands of people's lives and has impacted the world in a way that I could have never fathomed in 2016 when we started this. And I think it's easy to lose sight of things like that and in your life, whoever's listening right now, like your life. It's easy for us to get bogged down in details and the day to day instead of taking a step back and take a global picture of look at how amazing my life is. And I talked about the book the Gap in the Gain that I read recently and I think this helped reframe things for me in terms of I've just been looking at that negative gap between where I am and essentially perfection, which is utterly ridiculous because nobody can ever get to perfection. Instead of looking at the gain from oh my goodness, I started this podcast with Jonathan almost eight years ago to the day from nothing. And it's turned into something truly extraordinary. I mean there's, there's a real strong argument to be made that this is one of the most positively beneficial podcast in the history of podcasts. I mean I don't think that's a stretch and believe me, I'm very self deprecating. I don't like saying nice things about myself. But I think that that is just kind of fact at this point and, and I think just to see the benefit of it has been amazing. So Ginger, that's a very long way of saying I've made my life easier. The run up to this big trip that I took, so I took a 23, 24 day trip and what that required was doing some hard things upfront to make life easier for this trip and beyond. And I definitely want to talk about this in depth in this episode because we actually have some fun things coming at choose of high in 2025 that I think is all part and parcel of this where we're going to have a lot more interaction with some of our friends and world class experts and all the listeners, all the community members can ask questions and we're going to play voicemails responses from these experts on the, on the podcast. You're going to actually see the beginning of it today in this episode. And this is just but a taste of things to come and I'm just super excited about it. But Ginger, what the upshot of that is for me is I don't feel like I have to answer everything. And I also don't feel like I just have to zip off a response just to get an email out of my inbox anymore. Now we can get a real answer. We can create an article on the website thanks to Jonathan and what he's been doing behind the scenes. We can turn them into segments for this podcast and like it's the best, all beneficial, like, positive feedback loop I could imagine. And it lowers my stress. Right? Like Jonathan's been able to help automate a bunch of the things that I have to update for credit cards and different interest rates and things like that on the website. And that's just something off my todoist. And not only is it off my to do list now, Ginger, but it's off my todoist forever. You know, that's the beautiful thing about, about automating. So all the things that I did leading up to this red X month and ultimately mini retirement are just helping me. And frankly, that perspective made a massive difference. The gap in the game. So there's that. That's kind of like the basis of how I started. But the trip itself was extraordinary. It was further proof to me that connection is everything. And I think one of the interesting things about travel is you realize how wonderful the world is, how amazingly small it can be in the best possible way. Even when you're in extremely different places from where you live or maybe where you grew up, you just realize there's a common humanity. You realize how most people, 98, 99 + percent of people are just trying to live their best lives or trying to have fun or trying to be happy or trying to just do good things. And, and you just get a perspective that I think living in your own little myopic bubble in regular life, no matter how good your regular life is, just doesn't afford you. So I had just these incredible connections and, and obviously I'm fortunate that I have this podcast, but I think, I think honestly I always thought of myself and, and this is such a bad, imprecise term, but introvert, I think that's the, the term that I always used to.
- [06:55]
Ginger
Is that a bad word now?
- [06:56]
Brad
Well, I don't know if it's a bad word per se, but I think it's, I think a lot of us use it as like a, like a catch all for maybe I feel a little awkward socially or whatever. Like it's not the actual precise definition of introvert. Right. But I think what I've realized as I've. I've gotten older is just how much I thrive off of, like, real connection. Not the, hey, let's go to, like, I don't know, a club or a bar and, like, see other people, you know, or something silly like that, like my friends used to want to do when we were in our twenties. But actually one on one, real connection. And I think having that in both Doha and Singapore on this trip were just really unexpected. And we can go into that in a little bit, but it was just so wonderfully unexpected. I think that, to me, is another thing that's fun about life, is, like, when something happens just out of the ordinary and it just so far exceeds anything you could have imagined. And it comes down to, I made this friend who's going to be a lifelong friend, and I had that in. In Doha with Jason, who I met through the podcast, and then in Singapore with John and Carolyn, who just opened up their house and their family to us. It was. It was wonderful. We had these amazing, amazing times with them. And, yeah, I mean, I think another thing was, was just solo travel. I mean, that's something I haven't done as an adult. And just to be out on an adventure of my own and just do crazy things. Like in Doha, Jason, like, scheduled this whole day of fun, and I wrote a camel. We went dune bashing in a Land Cruiser in, like, an hour out into the desert in Qatar, and it was just so neat. Like, it was just so awesome. Ginger?
- [08:38]
Ginger
Yeah? I feel it's worth saying that this experience where you're saying, oh, it was so unexpected, or there was. There were benefits that I couldn't have imagined that those happened because you were willing to take a risk, because you took that risk, because you did all of those uncomfortable things of getting on this plane and knowing that it could be terrible and knowing that it could be awkward to show up and not really know what to talk about, you know, and so often we get stuck at that point before we take action, and so we have to. We have to take the risk to get that benefit.
- [09:11]
Brad
Yeah, I think that is brilliantly put. I think we need to take a risk just generally when it comes to connecting with people. And this is not to say, like, go around, like, randomly talking to every single person you meet and being a weirdo, but I think there are just so many times where I just simply just assumed, oh, I'm not going to talk to that person, or, oh, they're busy or whatever. And even just when I was with my girls in Barcelona in June, we were on a couple of tours and we wound up just like chatting people up and talking to them and finding out about their lives. And my daughters just. They loved it. Like, they just thought it was really cool. Like they couldn't believe we got to hear about all these people's stories from across the world. And it was just really special. And it was. Again, I think it's more interesting to me because I know where I've been and where I am now. And I think a lot of that is this inner work journey that I've been on for the last 10 years and through the men's group that I've been a part of with Dominic Cortuccio. And just. And I'd be curious, obviously you have a professional background and things like this, but for me it has been this crazy journey where it feels like. And I always forget like the. This parable or whatever it is of like the stone mason or some such who's hammering a rock, right? And it's like the 151st hit breaks the rock. But it's not to say did the 150 hits that came prior, did they not have anything to do with it? Was it just that 150 verse? No, of course not. It was all of those. And I feel like. I feel like this trip to me was like that 151st hit in the best way in the sense that I feel like I've been on this inner work journey for so long and trying to just learn every random thing I could about myself about different, you know, even down to like love languages and attachment style and all these different things that, that have just kind of come into my orbit over the last five, 10 years and didn't really seem to be doing anything, if you will, like, if that makes any sense. Like, I didn't feel like there was necessarily massive progress and then it was like all of a sudden, ta da. Like I. I feel like a. A more liberated and more whole person who isn't hung up on a lot of things. So I don't know if that makes any sense. I hope that it does, but it was really, really cool. And I think, I think there are benefits for everybody out there for just knowing yourself a little better. This is not about me, obviously. This is about all of us. And. And believe me, if I can go on this journey, I think anybody can. I think that's one of the hallmarks of the FI community is we're just taking these little actions to make our lives better, from money to relationships to self learning, to everything. And it all kind of coalesces into something remarkable. And I feel like I've been on the cusp of that and I feel like this trip was really that moment.
- [12:05]
Ginger
Brad, you are a true lifelong learner and I think that's so tied to people's life satisfaction, especially as they get older. Do you have a sense for if you have sort of always been that way or if FI was part of sort of catapulting that or what has got you to that place?
- [12:28]
Brad
Yeah, that's a good question. I would say that I've always had a thirst for knowledge generally. We talked a very long time ago about, about the talent stack and I read that book by Scott Adams. I think it's how to Fail at Nearly Everything and Still Win Big or something like that. And I know Scott Adams is a bit of a controversial character at this point, but nevertheless, that was a really influential book for me because it put to words something that I'd always thought of but didn't really have a framework for, which is you don't have to be world class at anything essentially, but if you can be in the top 20%, which is actually a pretty low bar of a lot of things, you can actually be a pretty extraordinary person and maybe make connections that you otherwise just simply wouldn't be able to. So for, for me, that's always how I've thought about learning is. And this might be a limiting belief obviously, but I've never believed that I could be or wanted to be a world class expert on anything. I just like, I love learning. This might be a pejorative, but, but I don't take it this way. I'm like, like an inch deep and like 27 miles wide, you know, like that's how I think of my learning and it's just really served me well and I just, I'm just interested in random stuff and it all just comes together. So yeah, I think it's, it is part and parcel of the FI journey for me. But yeah, I suspect it predated that.
- [13:54]
Ginger
Yeah, I've had that experience too where I've been a big reader all of my life and I remember this time in like my mid-30s when I started to see benefits that I hadn't really expected where I'm like, oh yeah, I have this base of knowledge that I can pull from all of these different places. Like I have this specific moment of being at this party and hearing People talk and being like, I know you got that from that book. I know you got that. But what was interesting to me about that moment was, like, how I couldn't have had that experience 10 years before. How you had to do this thing for 20 years first before you could start to make those connections that you can make. And I feel like that's part of what you're saying as well, where it's like, now is the time where you're reaping the benefits of sort of that, that kind of learning.
- [14:47]
Brad
Totally agreed. I'm picturing in the back of my mind the. The famous bar scene from the movie Good Will Hunting. I don't know if you remember that or not. Yeah, you got that from page 167, blah, blah, blah. I read that too. And obviously you're not. You're not saying that in a mean way, but it made me think of that. So people always want to know what's on your mind, Ginger. So what books have been influential? So when you brought that up, not to put you on the spot, but are there any books that jump to mind that have been, like, truly influential in your life that maybe people might not have heard of?
- [15:17]
Ginger
Well, I love the idea of doing a follow up on this because sincerely, I would love to go into all of the books that I love and encourage people to read those books. But for now, I will say that Daniel Kahneman has had a huge influence in my life, and partly because of his work, but also because it just sort of got me interested in that field of, like, how people make decisions, how people think about their own thinking processes. And so Thinking Fast and Slow is the giant book that most people know. But everything of his is really, really interesting.
- [15:54]
Brad
I love that. Yeah, that is a book that I've certainly read portions of and need to go back to a similar book. And we will. We will come back to this. So one of the next roundups we do. Let's come back to that because I really want to hear what, what's been influential for you. If you haven't read this, it's similar in a. In a weird way. So poor Charlie's Almanac, which is basically the wit and wisdom of Charles T. Munger. So Charlie Munger, who we know, know and love, they just came out with a new version of it that is only like 20 instead of 60 or 70. The old one was like £7. It was this massive, massive book. I would really recommend this for anybody who's looking to build that talent stack, who's looking to as Charlie would call it, like, build this lattice work of how to think clearly. I think that was what was so beautiful about. About Mr. Munger is he just had this. This background in. In a wide variety of subjects that helped him really think through an issue. And that book in particular is basically. I think it's like 10 of his speeches. 10 of his absolute best speeches on these mental models and things like that. So, yeah, poor Charlie Zalmanek. Ginger, you would. I think you would love that one.
- [17:05]
Ginger
I'm on it. Okay. We can't leave Bali yet.
- [17:09]
Brad
We can.
- [17:10]
Ginger
So you've made all of these amazing connections, which is so great, but what about the actual place? Like, what was it like to be in Bali?
- [17:17]
Brad
Yes, and I was not going to skip over Bali because obviously that was the. That was the highlight of the trip and that was the main reason that I was there. So, yeah, I went on the Five Freedom Retreat that Amy Minkley runs, and Amy's been on the podcast a couple of times, and she's just remarkable. I mean, she put on such an extraordinary event and just managed every little detail. I mean, maybe, honestly, almost too much. It was. I'm joking about it being too perfect, but, like, she just. Every detail was meticulously done and in the best possible way. She's, again, extraordinary. So I would highly recommend a longer event like this. I think getting to Bali was really, really difficult. Obviously, it's 10,000 miles away from. From the east coast, so not just a hop, skip and a jump, needless to say, but it was lovely. Bali is interesting, I have to say. So if you asked a hundred random Americans off the street, I think most people would think of Bali and say it's a tropical paradise. I think that's what we. What we expect.
- [18:19]
Ginger
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Brad
And it is gorgeous and the people are incredible, but it is. It is a very densely populated island, like, shockingly so. So that's not to say that there isn't beautiful lush areas that are incredible and just would blow your mind, but it is. It just was different from my expectations in that regard. So that said, the place where we had the event was just this oasis in this main town of. Of Ubud, which is of, like the yoga and meditation capital of Bali, which might be the capital of the world for that. That's a bit of a hyperbolic statement yet again, but nevertheless, it's pretty significant. And so we had all the benefits of being near a hundred restaurants and every place where you could get a massage or go to yoga or whatever it may be. Right. There. But we were on this oasis of a resort, and it was so. It was really best of all worlds. And I think there's just something magical when you get together with five people. And I think this is really the secret sauce of our entire community of what we've done here at choose a 5 and trying to really talk about these events that, I mean, frankly, we don't put any of these on. So the Camp Ph economy, obviously, 5 freedom retreat, they have nothing to do with choose a 5. They're just things that we talk about. Because I love these events and I think they can be life changing for people. Because, Ginger, realistically, a lot of us go through our lives and we are little fi islands unto ourselves, right? Like we're living this kind of countercultural life in our own little community and nobody else is doing that around us. And I think that's what Choose A vi local groups have helped immensely in the couple hundred cities where they are, where you can see other real people doing this. And I think when you go to one of these longer events, and the five Freedom Retreat is probably the best current example of it, you just dive deep. And there's just this commonality that when you have FI as the overarching principle or one of them of your lives, it just transcends everything. It makes everything easier. And you just find incredibly interesting people with these amazing backgrounds, amazing things they're interested in, and conversations just flow. And I think that's the serendipity of it all, is what was fun. There were 54 of us there. And as much as I love the formal events of which I was part of a bunch of them, I think for me the highlights were going to the breakfast at the resort every day and just getting there at 7 when it opened and leaving at 10 when it closed, and just having random conversations for whoever of the other 53 people wound up kind of filing through the table that I was sitting at. And I think it's just that kind of serendipity that is hard to describe. And if you're listening to this saying, like, oh, Brad, I don't know, this sounds like it sounds good, but is it really that big of a deal? It truly is. Like, you walk away from these events with lifelong friends, and that's not an exaggeration. And I cannot describe just how nice it feels to connect with people and had just so much fun. It was also a little more international than most events that I go to. So I think there were a dozen or more people from Australia. There were A bunch of people from Asia. We had a bunch of Canadian friends and then obviously a bunch of Americans naturally. But it was just really cool. And to now again, I have friends in Australia. So when I go to Australia later in 2025 or 2026 or whenever it may be, I now have people that I could, I could literally go visit at their houses and stay there. And like, that's, I met them over five days and that's what's so wild about an event like that. And yeah, I think to me, for anybody out there wondering like, what goes on at these events, I mean, there's very rarely talk about numbers or spreadsheets or anything like that. Like there might be an occasional conversation. And certainly if you wanted to have that conversation, which some people did, you can obviously find many, many, many people who want to talk about it. But I think to me it's about connection. It's about how are you trying to live a better life. That was actually the theme of my talk of Katie and Alan Donegan and Rachel Richards. It was, it was really interesting. We didn't, we didn't talk about it beforehand, we didn't plan this, but we all kind of got to the same place. And it was amazing how complimentary those talks and workshops were. And I think people left feeling emboldened to live better lives. And I know I left with a couple of WhatsApp chats amongst a group of us who, hey, what's the one fun thing you're planning on doing this week? I know my friend Christine Whe Lee, who's been on the podcast. Her and I are doing that now. And then a group of us are doing one scary thing. Like what's one scary thing you're going to do this month that is a little outside of your comfort zone? And just that little bit of accountability. I think accountability is just massive in life. I've seen it from my fitness with my trainer Dean Turner to now this. And it just, it just emboldens you to really do it because, you know, people are doing their own fun things and their own scary things and they're going to report back to you.
- [23:27]
Ginger
How was the transition coming back home?
- [23:29]
Brad
Well, the transition was tough because I was severely jet lagged. So I know that isn't exactly what you're asking, but I was unbelievably jet lagged for the first three days and then it really lasted a full seven or eight. So that was a little harder, which kind of took my eye off of the ball of, of how is the actual Transition and, and I think I'm now at the point where I'm realizing, I think this has legs. I think my new mindset is going to last. And I think that's what we've talked about, mini retirements and these red X months. I've always been a little worried in the back of my mind when I've been talking about this mini retirement over the last year, that I was going to fall into old bad habits when I came back. That was my fear in the back of my mind that because, yeah, it's easy to have a mini retirement and go travel to Asia for a month, right. And be away. But what happens when I come back? And I think, just like everything in life, it's a mindset, but you have to be diligent because I think we all fall. The entropy is the name of the game, right? Just in life it's everything goes to disorder. And I think falling back into bad habits is really, really easy unless you're intentional. And I think intentionality is maybe the key, the single key to success in life. You could probably make an argument long term thinking and intentionality. I would put those in a horse race in terms of what makes a successful life, just off the top of my head. But, Ginger, I think you'd be proud of me. I've been doing really well. Like, I've been staying away from my computer, except for very specific, like, hey, I have to sit down and write my newsletter. Okay. But I'm not going to graze on the computer for five hours. I'm going to sit here and put a stopwatch on and do this in under 90 minutes and just be done with it. And yeah, it's been a revelation for me and I think I'm seeing benefits. My buddy Patrick, who I mentioned was on the trip with me, he lives here in Richmond and hung out twice already. I saw my friend Chris, who has also been on the show a couple times and we now have a plan to work out next week together and then go out to lunch with another friend of ours. And I'm, I'm just, I'm being intentional, Ginger. I'm doing all the things that I want to be that I maybe purport to be on this podcast. And just like everybody else, I'm not a perfect person by any stretch of imagination and I do fall into old habits, but I'm really trying hard and I think that I'm just genuinely proud of how I've reacted to this and I think it's great.
- [25:57]
Ginger
Yeah, I think you're mostly talking about having the mini retirement and being away from your regular responsibilities for so long. But I think there's also a piece in there that you're saying it's about the actual travel and being somewhere new. And that's something that so many of us can relate to. And at the same time, it's hard to kind of get a hold of that. Like, what is it about that experience that makes us think about our own lives so differently?
- [26:26]
Brad
Yeah, I hear you. Do you have any thoughts on that? Because I know you've been traveling a lot lately.
- [26:31]
Ginger
I have been traveling a lot lately, no. But I definitely have that experience. And I wonder if it's something related to just like your eyes seeing something new and that it does something in your brain sort of like the sunlight does something in your brain that just actually seeing a different landscape or seeing. Just seeing different colors, if that in somehow inspires a different kind of thinking. But I really don't know. I'm really just curious about it.
- [26:58]
Brad
Yeah, I think, I mean it certainly could be that. I think our brains are incredibly powerful. And actually it's funny you mentioned the sunlight. I got an email or Dr. Andrew Huberman, who has the popular Huberman Lab podcast. He sent out an email to his list about jet lag. And he is big on morning and evening sunlight. So actually this is one of those life hacks just for everybody out there. Just a little nugget is just in general, but especially with jet lag, like to set your circadian rhythm, try to get outside for even two to five minutes in the morning if you can with low angle sunlight, and then in the evening, again with low angle sunlight and you know, just plus or minus 30 minutes around sunset or sunrise. And it actually does really help. Like it helps if sleeping is a problem for you. Like that's just one of those things I picked up over the last couple years. That is massive. And I didn't, I didn't take this to heart when I got back with the jet lag, but I started doing that and then lo and behold, it actually started working. So again, total random aside, but that's what we do here at choose if I obviously. Right. So I think Ginger, it opens your aperture. I think that's, that's how I frame it. And I was a little imprecise or maybe stumbling over my words before about this, but when I was saying about just like people are people and I think to me it's just getting out into the world. It's both seeing things that are Extremely different, but also recognizing patterns from your own life and seeing people just going about their lives and you realizing there is this common humanity. And I think, to me, that is extremely powerful lesson from travel. So it's this interesting, I don't know, dichotomy, juxtaposition. I don't know what the exact word would be, but of just seeing both things that are extremely different and foreign and extremely similar, if that makes any sense. And I think there's just something about that in my own brain that just. It just lights things up and emboldens me to travel more, to see more of the world, to meet more people, but then also to realize, like, hey, we're all living this kind of same path as human beings. And there's just something oddly comforting about that.
- [29:02]
Ginger
Should we transition to a less fun travel topic?
- [29:08]
Brad
Yeah, what do you got?
- [29:09]
Ginger
Okay, I want to talk about. So, you know, I got the upgraded Southwest card so that I could get my mini Companion Pass. And I wanted to share a mistake that I made in case anyone else is at risk making this.
- [29:25]
Brad
I love it, Ginger. I think people are going to start wondering, like, man, they talk about Southwest a lot, but they're not really experts. They're like, we messed up the Companion Pass. Now you messed up. So hopefully everyone is learning through our own foibles here.
- [29:38]
Ginger
Yes. And I. I feel I should be embarrassed to share this story, but I'm not. I'm just gonna.
- [29:44]
Brad
Nothing to be embarrassed about. We're all learning, right?
- [29:47]
Ginger
Okay. So with my new card, I want to use all my benefits. And one of the benefits is four free upgraded passes.
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Brad
Okay.
- [29:57]
Ginger
So I've got this trip planned. I've got my companion. I go in to do the upgrade. Now, as I recall, there was one button to push. I could be wrong about this, but I pushed the one button, and it says, you cannot change your mind about this. We're not going to give you a refund, no matter what. You better be sure. So I panic because they're expensive, and the whole deal is like, you pay for it, and then you get reimbursed on your credit card. So it's going to be $200 if I don't get reimbursed. So I panic. I call. I can't remember if I called Southwest or Chase. I called someone, and I was like, I'm really nervous. Is this actually going to work? She says, it's going to work. Do it. So I did it.
- [30:40]
Brad
Okay.
- [30:40]
Ginger
And then the refund isn't coming, so I call, and they're like, oh, no, it takes a while. Couple weeks pass. I'm like, two days or one day before the trip. I'm like, this is getting weird that I haven't been refunded. Oh, no, it'll happen. Then I try checking in, and there's an annoying issue that makes me realize something has gone wrong. Something has gone wrong. So I call back, and what I learn is there's a difference between the upgrade and the early bird upgrade. The early bird seeding, and I have chosen the wrong one. I have chosen the cheaper one. So I'm like, well, can you just change it? Can I? Nope, nope. You've paid for it. And it's a worse upgrade. And there's no getting your $200 back.
- [31:33]
Brad
Oh, no.
- [31:33]
Ginger
So now I'm so shy about, like, I'm going on another trip. Am I gonna upgrade? Like, no, I'm too scared. And I think I know how to do it now, but it was just such a terrible experience. And so I guess I'm sharing it because it's like, okay, the upgrade. There's special language around it, and so you want to make sure that you're getting the correct upgrade.
- [31:56]
Brad
Okay.
- [31:56]
Ginger
Yeah.
- [31:57]
Brad
That is very good to know. So, okay. Right. Everyone needs to be cognizant that there are two different types of upgrades. You need to. You need to be aware what you're actually going for. So, okay, so we can add this to our long list of Southwest. Maybe minor fails, but, you know, in fairness, we do love. We love Southwest for travel rewards. That's why we talk about it so much. Like you said, the Companion Pass is incredible. I think, to me, the two easiest programs that I go for are Southwest and then Hyatt Hotels. I almost exclusively stay in Hyatt Hotels now because I can transfer my chase points over there. So they're just incredibly easy to use. I mean, they don't have the footprint that a Marriott or Hilton has. But nevertheless, at this point, it's funny, all these roller coaster trips that I take with my daughter Anna, we just stay at Hyatt Houses and Hyatt places every single time. It's a lot of fun. So, yeah, that's why we, as you know, at Choose a Vi, we love travel rewards. And yeah, I think Hyatt and Southwest are two of the easiest programs. And Ginger, you did not realize this when you started talking about Southwest. And this is actually one of the changes are one of the really cool things that are going to happen at choose of I in 2025. So let me talk about it real quick, but this ties directly into Southwest. So Jonathan has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes on our website and we're trying to make it a lot more functional in the sense that I think right now when people send in questions and wins and different things like that, but specifically questions, I'm the constraint in the system. So they all come to me, which is ridiculous because I'm usually either not qualified to answer everything or certainly if it's on some wide ranging topic or B, I just quickly jot off an answer and it only helps that one person and I just, I'm essentially just trying to get it out of my inbox. Well, what Jonathan and I have been brainstorming behind the scenes is, okay, what would it look like if we had a submission for all these questions and they were essentially by category and when that question was submitted, it got sent directly to a world class expert and our friend on one of these topics. So I'm at the new choose if I.com feedback page and I'm just seeing, for instance, drawdown strategies. So what if that got sent to Fritz from Retirement Manifesto or Entrepreneurship goes to Alan Donegan or Health and fitness goes to Dr. Bobby or Dean Turner and taxes go to Sean Mulaney and safe withdrawal rates go to Big Earn. Something like that. Like what if Every single question that came in and this is for you in the community who's listening to this, like what if? Now, if you had a question, we at choose a 5. Because one of the nice things is we have this massive platform and when these experts can answer questions and they could show up on our website or on this podcast, it helps everybody, right? Because they know they're getting in front of tens or hundreds of thousands of people. You're asking a question that's broadly applicable to the community or maybe specifically to you or thereabouts, you get an answer and we can help have this platform and hopefully help the whole community. So to me, I see it as this win, win, win. And so, Ginger, that is a very long way of saying, I think this is the most exciting thing that we're changing at Choose a VI in a very, very long time. Even though it sounds subtle, I think it's going to be massive because now again, these experts who now I can route all these questions to automatically, thanks to the beauty of technology, they can answer every single one and we can turn them into this audio file plus a whole post on our website and then a lot of them can end up on this podcast. So I think I think this is going to be massive. And actually today is really maybe the beginning of it in a sense that I actually have a clip here that we're going to play from my friend Lynn Medler, who has been on the podcast a couple times. She's a longtime travel journalist. She created a website called Families Fly Free where she basically teaches this membership community how to use travel rewards points, but very specifically on Southwest, which is her absolute favorite. So she sent in this audio file that I'm going to play now and it's actually talking about a lot of the changes that are coming to Southwest and Ginger. Interestingly, southwest starting in 2026, according to Lynn, is going to have this assigned seating. So this was a big deal and I think that's going to change the entire check in process. So maybe, just maybe you won't have to get that early bird. And to be there or otherwise like you have to be there exactly 24 hours to the minute or you get into the C group. So this is a bit of a longer voicemail that she sent in, but I think because so many of us really do rely on Southwest just for our regular flights, not to mention travel rewards flights, that this is going to be valuable. And the cool thing is again, we can follow up with Lyn as things change. She's going to send in more voicemails or if you have a question about something specific, just go to choose a.com feedback that should really be if you're going to choose a vi dot com. If you're ever thinking about choose a VI and you have a question, send it in there. You're going to be shocked at the answers that come back from these amazing people who are friends and colleagues and Ginger, I'm really excited about it. All right, and here's Lynn Mettler from Families Fly Free.
- [37:13]
Lynne Mettler
Hey, choose fi community. I know that Southwest is a favorite airline for many of you, and it's definitely a favorite of mine because it's a key way that I teach people to fly for free as much as they want, simply and easily. It's the best airline to fly for free in my opinion. But boy, has Southwest announced a lot of changes recently. And I wanted to fill you in on a couple of these key changes and how they may impact those of us who fly Southwest for free using points. So first of all, you may have heard that Southwest will be moving to assigned seating. They've had no assigned seats for the last 50 years. So that's a huge change. Now, I know some Southwest loyalists are not Excited about this change because we've all gotten used to the current system and we know how to work it. But I gotta say, I personally am excited to not have to worry about checking in exactly 24 hours ahead of time, which I'm really good at forgetting by, like a minute or two. Or the other option being basically to have to pay a fee in order to be automatically checked in. So it's going to be great, I think, to just eliminate that unknown and potential anxiety of where am I going to be able to sit on the plane? Particularly if you're looking for the emergency row and you don't know if you're going to get there or. I know a lot of families worry about if they're going to be able to sit together. So this is going to eliminate all of that. You're just going to know where you'll be sitting. So here's what we know about how this is going to work. Assigned seats will not actually start until 2026. But they will start selling these assigned seats in the middle of 2025. We don't have an exact date yet. They are also adding seating options with extra legroom. So that could be nice, too, for, again, those of you who are looking for that emergency row seating to get a little extra legroom. So these are going to have an additional 3 to 5 inches of pitch or space. And that's going to be approximately a third of the seats on each plane. And then the rest of the seats are going to maintain their standard pitch of 31 inches. Which is still one of the best in the industry. One of the most generous amounts of leg room. So they're going to keep the same boarding process that we're used to. So that's good. You're still going to be standing by the pylons. You're going to have a boarding order, and you're going to board in that order. So we'll keep that, which we're used to. And they're going to give you both a seat assignment and a boarding order. So you'll have both. And then if you hold elite status with Southwest, which is a list or a list preferred, you would board the plane first. You'd get an earlier boarding order. And then if you pay a higher fare, you would board earlier than everyone else as well. Now, if you hold the amazing Southwest Companion Pass, which I recommend everyone always hold one. I always have one. And this allows one person in your family or your group to always fly for free with you on as many flights as you want to Take while you hold the pass. So if you hold a companion pass, your companion is going to be able to have a seat selection next to you next to the pass holder. So that's a great benefit. And if you hold Southwest elite status, again a list or a list preferred, which I side note, just figured out a clever way to get that quickly and for pretty cheap, your companion will sit next to you. And depending on which elite status level you hold, you'll either get an extra legroom seat automatically, or if an extra legroom seat is available within 48 hours of your flight, you'll be able to choose it. And then your companion will get right next to you. So they get whatever perks in terms of seat selection that you do. So companion pass is already a two for one. You literally pay points for you and your companion gets added for free. And it's going to be the same when it comes to seating selections. Now, they haven't exactly laid out the cost of these or what fare types are going to get which seating selection, but what they have said is that the cheapest want to get away fare. And that's the one I typically recommend booking with points, that one's going to have no seat selection. So instead a seat will be assigned to you by them around check in time. Now this is where I see it impacting how we use points. So unless you're flying solo, you're probably going to want to have a seating assignment because this is really going to be worse than just having a boarding order and no seating assignment and getting to pick your seat. Cause at least you can try not to pick a middle seat between two people. That middle seat is always the last one to fill up on a Southwest flight. So I think you're going to need a seat selection in order to ensure that your group isn't entirely separated. And not just that, but relegated to middle seats. And you're probably going to be in middle seats throughout the back of the plane. So that wouldn't be fun to be traveling with a family and everybody's all separated and in a middle seat between two people they don't know. So I think to ensure that you can at least sit, you know, we typically as a family of four will fly two and two. One parent, one child and one parent, one child. So depending on the size of your family, you're probably going to want to fly 2 and 2 or 2 and 3 or whatever the size. So I think to ensure that you can at least do that, you're going to need to have a seating assignment. And so again, we'll have to see exactly the details once they release them on how this will all work. But what I think is we're going to need to book the next fare up from Wanna get Away, which is Wanna get Away plus. And that one they have said will come with a seat selection. It's probably not gonna be a premium seat selection, but at least you're gonna be able to pick where you sit. And that's going to cost us a few more points to be able to buy that fare instead of the cheapest. But if you follow my system the way I teach it, and we show you lots of different ways to pay fewer points for every Southwest flight, this shouldn't be a problem because we tend to have more than enough points to do with what we want to fly wherever we want. So I think paying a few more points to get a seat selection is not going to be a problem. And I think that's going to be the main strategy shift when it comes to assigned seats and flying with points. Now, the second change I wanted to mention that I am super excited about is the ability to fly to Europe using Southwest points. This is going to be so great. So Southwest has announced that they will be partnering with different airlines to allow Southwest customers to use their points, their rapid rewards points, to fly these other airlines. So far, they've announced Iceland Air with another partnership announcement, they say, coming later this year. But just with Iceland Air, they've completely opened up Europe to Southwest flyers. That's somewhere we've never been able to access before on Southwest, and that's going to be fantastic. So Iceland Air does fly throughout Europe to all the major cities in Europe, but there is a stop in Iceland on the way over. However, I would love, I haven't been to Iceland and I would absolutely love to stop in Iceland and maybe see if there's a way you can get, you know, 24 hours or something and just kind of quickly see the highlights on your way over to Europe. So again, we don't have exactly the details on how this all is going to work, but if we get the same value out of our Southwest points to fly Iceland Air that we do right now to fly Southwest, if you look at their current flight and their fare prices right now to places like London and Paris and Rome, we could be looking at about 33,000 points round trip to Europe, which would be awesome, I think. And then imagine if you could use your Southwest companion pass to add a family member or another traveler for no more points. You could both go for 33,000 points. That would be beyond amazing. But we don't know if they're going to allow that quite yet. But we can hope. What they have said about this partnership is that you'll be able to begin flying Iceland Air using your southwest points in mid 2025 and it'll be out of Baltimore, Washington. But they are going to be adding more airports throughout the year that you'll be able to fly out of on Iceland Air. Now, during a presentation that executives gave in September, they showed a map with destinations you'd soon be able to fly to on Southwest. And they didn't have any names on these destinations. And it was a very small map with just kind of like arrows pointing places. But the arrows in addition to pointing to Europe, appeared to point to islands in the South Pacific like Fiji. So I think that's probably going to be the next announcement coming some airline that flies into the South Pacific. And I know that would be thrilling for me. Fiji has definitely been on our bucket list and it's probably on many of your bucket lists as well. Now, when it comes to changes on the Southwest cards, they said more information will be coming early in 2025 about how benefits will be changing, but I don't expect anything detrimental here. I think we're just going to see a shift from these credits for Early Bird, which allows you to check in ahead of everyone else on Southwest and get an earlier boarding order. And then some of the cards have credits that give you an automatic A1 through 15 boarding order. I think those are just going to shift to becoming a certain number of assigned seat selections you get or maybe even a certain number of credits to upgrade to extra legroom seats. I think that's going to be the main shift we see there. And they're also keeping their policy of no fees to check two bags per person. So that is great news that that is not going away. And lastly, one little other addition to share if you like to cruise, they've added a way that you can book your cruises through Southwest and earn Southwest points when you do so. And you can do that. That site is southwestcruises.com you just need to be logged into your Southwest account when you would book a cruise to earn points. All the major cruise lines, including Disney, appear to be on there and they also say they will price match. And if you find a lower price on another website within 48 hours of booking with them, they'll refund you 110% of the difference. So this could be A great way to add to your Southwest points balance if you like to cruise regularly. So that's it. That's a quick overview of some of the changes Southwest has coming soon. I personally am super excited about these changes as I think it's going to make for a more enjoyable flying experience and it's going to expand what we're able to do with our Southwest points flying beyond their current US And Caribbean destinations.
- [48:39]
Brad
Yeah, Ginger, that was cool. So assigned seating starting in 2026. Maybe the ability to use Southwest miles to fly to Europe on Iceland Air. That is incredibly intriguing. Lynn was saying something about seeing 33,000 miles round trip to Europe and maybe maybe you could use the companion pass. So stay tuned on that. And yeah, it sounds pretty awesome. So it looks like mid-2025, we have to use that, an Iceland air out of BWI Baltimore Airport, and then maybe maybe some other airports beyond that. So I'm pretty excited about that.
- [49:12]
Ginger
Yeah.
- [49:12]
Brad
Okay, so I've got a whole bunch of topics. This is one of the fun and daunting things about these episodes, Ginger, is I feel like we can talk forever. And I have 50 things that I want to talk about. So real quick. This is a public service announcement. I think I had already talked about this on a prior episode, but there is this new beneficial Ownership Information Report, B O I R. That is a requirement for anybody who has any type of legal entity. And unless this gets pushed back, this is due by December 31st. So if you have any type of legal entity, if you have an llc, if you have S Corp, C Corp, whatever it is, you have to file. This is really, really, really important. There are some massive penalties for not filing. Obviously, I'm not your accountant. I'm not your lawyer. You need to check yada, yada, yada. But I did this for all the entities that I have. It took me about three minutes per entity. It was incredibly, incredibly easy. And we're talking like $500 plus penalty per day for non filing. Just please file a thing. Okay, so it's really easy. You just Google B o I and FinCEN F I N C E N. So you could essentially Google anything. It was B o I e filing.fincen.gov and we'll put that in the show notes. But please, please, please heed my warning. This is really, really important. So just do this. Ginger Travel rewards. We talked a little bit about it, obviously, but I'm just struck again by just how amazing having lounge access is. I know you and I have talked about this at length. I Love my Capital One Venture X card. Because of this, I get the top tier Priority Pass access that I used to great effect on my trip. I also get access to the Capital One lounges, which I was able to use at a dulles Airport in D.C. so I'm a big fan of that. I know there's a. There's a significant annual fee on this, but it does kind of net out because you get that annual travel credit and such. And it's kind of hard to lay out that kind of annual fee. But I love this card because of the Priority Pass access and the Capital One Lounge. So I'm stuck on that. I know a buddy of mine, Andy, who I met up with in Barcelona, messaged me the other day saying, hey, I'm sitting in a Priority Pass lounge in a London airport. And I just wanted to thank you for reminding me. Great. No joke. Have that in WhatsApp from the last seven days. And I just wanted to remind everybody, lounge access is really, really, really nice. This is my favorite card. Again, high annual fee, so let the buyer beware. But there are other ways to get a lounge access. And yeah, this is a real good one.
- [51:42]
Ginger
Yeah, I did a unoptimized thing with my travel rewards that might be worth sharing. And it was based on something that you had said where I was saying, oh, we did this cruise and of course we couldn't use our points for the cruise. And you had said, well, of course you could have done the erasing thing for any travel expense on your Capital One. And so we actually just booked a trip to Costa Rica in January using Southwest points. So great. And we've done so much travel this year for a couple different reasons, but it's not really our, our usual amount of travel. So it's a little bit. We've spent more than usual. So then I booked 10 nights in different Airbnbs and I was pretty frugal. I want someone to be impressed that it was like a thousand dollars for ten nights. Are you impressed?
- [52:33]
Brad
I'm impressed.
- [52:34]
Ginger
Okay.
- [52:35]
Brad
Very impressed.
- [52:36]
Ginger
And then I was like, I still don't really want to spend that because we spent so much on travel this year. But I had all these Capital One points. I have no plans for any more travel in the near future. I was like, the thing that's going to feel best is to use these points to pay for our accommodation. So I knew it wasn't the optimal. I knew, like, we could do better if we were getting a flight somewhere, but I have no plans for a flight anywhere. And it Felt amazing to just wipe those clear. So our entire trip is going to be paid for with points.
- [53:09]
Brad
Amazing.
- [53:10]
Ginger
For three people.
- [53:11]
Brad
Damn.
- [53:12]
Ginger
Yeah.
- [53:12]
Brad
That's incredible. Ginger, congrats. That, I mean, that is what travel rewards are all about, right?
- [53:16]
Ginger
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Brad
It's actually traveling. It doesn't have to be optimized. I think this is what a lot of people get bogged down in, is it has to be perfect, it has to be optimized. It really doesn't. I promise. It really, really doesn't.
- [53:26]
Ginger
Yeah. And I just want to say, like, it might not sound that impressive, but the reason that it's impressive that I want people to get if they haven't gone down this road is that my family, like, we are not big spenders. We are just never going to meet the minimums for like these cars that have the super big, you know, spend 10,000 in two months spent. Like, we're never going to do that. And so to me it's incredible because we're pretty frugal. Like, I think we spend less than most people or most people would expect. And so to have that lifestyle and to still be able to have taken so many trips for free is incredible. So even if you're in that category of people where you're like, well, I don't think these bonuses are really going to work for me because I don't spend ten grand a month on a credit card. Like, it can still work.
- [54:12]
Brad
Yeah, I love that. What a great message. Because, yeah, it's not about perfection. It's not about having to do this in some crazy manner. It's just you can use your normal spending habits and get these incredible signup bonuses and turn them into real travel. And I think you're the perfect example of that family of three going on a 10 day trip for essentially free. I mean, goodness, that's, that's incredible. And yeah, I, I had some fun redemptions on this trip to Asia. So I wound up in, interestingly. So one of the experts that we're going to get involved here on that feedback page is my friend Noah, who actually lives like a mile from me, who is incredible at travel rewards redemptions. He's maybe the best I've ever seen and he just loves it. So he, he helped me a lot. I went up using Jet Blue points of all things to fly on Qatar, Qatar Airways, however you want to pronounce it, from D.C. to Doha. And I think if memory serves, it was only 40,000 points one way for that 13 hour flight in business class in the two suites I mean, Ginger, it was amazing. It was the best business class I could imagine. It was like as good of a business class as possible. And then you had a sliding door on your little pod.
- [55:24]
Ginger
Wow.
- [55:25]
Brad
And it just, it afforded you so much privacy. It was a 13 hour flight. And I kid you not, I slept more on that one flight than all my prior flights combined in my entire lifetime. I slept for nine or 10 hours. I just conked it. It was the most relaxing thing in the world. It was, it was astonishing. So I missed some of the incredible food and service and all that stuff, but I made up for it. When I woke up, I had, I basically ordered all the breakfasts. So they came out, they put this like white linen on your table and like, and they served me two separate breakfast. And because they have like a script with how it goes, I got two sets of silverware and it was like, it was so funny. I was like, oh my goodness, something. I'm like a big pig right now. But it was so great. It was so, so great. And then I think speaking to maybe not getting an optimized, but still just saying, hey, you know what? I want to travel and I want to use my points. I flew Singapore Airlines on that, the longest flight in the world, the 17 and a half hour flight from Singapore back to New York City. And I didn't even get the saver level ticket. I just paid like the standard level, which was, it was something crazy, like 140,000 Singapore miles, which is a lot. But frankly, I was in business class on Singapore Airlines for 17 and a half hours and it was heavenly. It was really, really great. So, yeah, I like that. I have to say I like the Q suite better just because of that door. But I think Singapore might be going to that something similar with those pods in their next version of their business class. But I mean, listen, I'm, I'm splitting hairs here. They both were just lovely. And that's something that no matter how wealthy you are or no matter how far you long you've been on the five path. Like, there's no world where I would have spent $10,000 or whatever it is on that business class flight. There's simply no world. So it enabled me a level of luxury that, that just felt awesome and it was, it's fun.
- [57:16]
Ginger
Incredible.
- [57:17]
Brad
So, Ginger, we've talked a lot. Obviously the path to fi is not just about money, but of course it is about money. So I, I had an interesting conversation with my mom a couple of months ago. Probably at this point because of the Trip. But it was about automating your finances. And I think this, to me, is one of the things that I've done that has lowered my stress level so much when it comes to personal finance. And even though she's heard me on the show so many times, I think she'd done some of it, but not all of it. And even just down to putting your credit card on autopay, putting all of your utility bills, like, not the old school, certainly not writing checks. I hope most or zero people are doing that. But even just logging in to your credit card statement online and manually paying it when, hey, I have extra money sitting in my checking account. I'm never worried about going down to zero. Why don't I just set this thing up in autopay? Like, why am I worried? Am I going to get the bill this month? Do I have to check my actual old school snail mail? Like, none of that makes any sense. It's so easy to set everything up on autopay, even down to setting transfers to your investment account on automatic. And I think this is, again, just a little public service announcement of if you're doing anything manual with your finances, please stop and just try to find a way to do it automatically. In this day and age, there's almost no need unless you have some extenuating circumstance or you just frankly love getting into the granular detail. Like, Ginger, I don't know about you, but that's not me. I like just having all of this work. I could go away for essentially six months, more or less, plus or minus, and my personal finance life would just keep on trucking without me, which is pretty awesome, I think.
- [59:02]
Ginger
Yeah. I have also. I mean, I have definitely done that, but I will share that I haven't done that for my investments because it feels good to do it manually. Even though when I look back, like, I've put the same amount in every single month for a year.
- [59:18]
Brad
Interesting.
- [59:18]
Ginger
But there's some part of it, I guess it's also kind of my, like, financial check in, you know, at the beginning of the month where I send that money over. But everything else, yes, I do have automated, and it's been a huge help.
- [59:31]
Brad
Yeah, Ginger, I like that. So. And now is funny because when I was talking about, like, extenuating circumstances, I. I think some people do get great satisfaction from doing some aspect of this manually. So just like anything that I say, there's no dogma. I genuinely believe in my heart of hearts that it would make everybody's life easier if they did. As much as possible automated. But frankly sometimes there's just things you like to do that hey this makes your life better to do it manually and that's fine. I know Paula Pant and I have talked about this previously about how sure we could track our net worths with automated spreadsheets and things like this, but we actually like a couple times a year logging into every account and manually writing down the numbers. I do that quarterly. It only takes me sub 30 minutes at this point. But there is something about it that feels really nice. So I definitely understand that. And just real quick, this reminded me of a email that I got a couple of months back from Santia who said hey Brad, I was thinking about the main point of your newsletter. So this was back in June and not trying to make it more complicated about automating, but sometimes I notice that cash builds up in accounts because the reinvest in the security box is not checked for the dividend. So you can choose to have dividends and earnings go to cash or to reinvest. And I thought this is kind of closely tied to this. Ginger is while you can put things on autopilot, I think sometimes you can maybe make make a mistake of, especially with investment, of not realizing that it's a two step process. So I know I talked about this with Tori Dunlap on a recent episode on her on her most recent feature on Choose a Vi where when I asked her what was the biggest mistake that you see people making with their personal finances and and this was either, her number one or number two answer. I believe from recollection that investing is a two step process. So this ties into this email tangentially but specifically in a broader sense. Hey, a lot of us have these accounts. You have an umbrella account of a 401k or an IRA or maybe it's even just a regular brokerage account, a taxable brokerage account. And you transfer money over there. Well that doesn't mean you're invested. It doesn't mean you're in AN S&P 500 or total stock market fund or even individual stocks or whatever it is you want to buy. It just means you have cash sitting in that account. And maybe it's in a money market account or so or maybe whatever. The general cash account just earns a couple percent in this day and age. But that's not really what you want for the long term. You want to actually invest it. So just keep in mind investing is a two step process. It's transferring money and then investing. There are some Firms and brokerage that allow you to do this in one step. But in most cases, there is a chance that that money is going to pile up. So Ginger, like you logging in and seeing, oh, wow, I have this cash that's unexpected, or per this email, it might just be, oh, I forgot to check reinvest dividends. So I get a cash payment, whatever it is, every quarter or once a year from these securities and now it's just sitting there, building up. Now, of course you can go in and check that box, which is what I would personally recommend or what I do. But if the cash is there, you got to invest it. You can't let it sit there. So maybe public service announcement three for the episode here.
- [62:46]
Ginger
Yeah, I mean, you kind of hit on what can be dangerous about automation is that it can remove us so much from the actual process that it's easy to miss things if we can get kind of too comfortable. So set it and forget it. But first, like really make sure you've done all the parts.
- [63:04]
Brad
Agreed? Agreed. Agreed. So, last thing that I've got before we have one more voice message from our good friend Sean Mulaney that I'm going to play to close the episode out. Things I'm experimenting with. So I often have some kind of random little health experiment going on. And I didn't tell you this, but I have a continuous glucose monitor on my arm now, which has been on my mind for years, so I've wanted to do this. My dad has type 2 diabetes, so it's, it's something that's always been on my mind and health is really, really critical to me. Obviously my phone, this is embarrassing. My phone has been the constraint for a very long time. Uh, there's a company called Levels that I was. I wanted to buy this CGM years ago, but my phone didn't have the near field communication so I couldn't do it. Yada, yada, yada. Long story short, Dexcom, which is one of the major CGM manufacturers, now has an over the counter version called Stello S T E L O. I just found this randomly about a month ago, right before I went on my trip and I just bought it and I, I'm on day three of this thing and it was. It's only like a hundred dollars for a month worth, so you get two different sensors. I'm really, really excited about this. I've already seen some insights that I would not have expected and I think that's what's fascinating about life, is just exploring and just trying to Find out like, hey, what works for me. Because I think a lot of us have a sense that there are foods that are like monolithically good or bad. Right. And like we've all been led to believe that this is a superfood. Whatever, fill in the blank. Blueberries or whatever. But you know what? Like for some people, blueberries give them a blood sugar spike. Well, that might be on the whole, and I'm, I'm generalizing here, but using a specific example. Like on the whole, blueberries might be a superfood for most people, but for you it might spike your blood sugar to 180 or something. Well, that doesn't sound like a superfood for you then. Right? And I think that's one of the interesting things. Even just in my third day now, I'm finding when I exercise that my blood sugar then when it returns to a normal state, it's about 10 or 20 points below where, where the normal baseline is and at a very comfortable, healthy level. It's wonderful. So that gives me add on effects for six to 12 hours from one workout. So I was staggered by that. And that suggests to me, okay, you have this family history, like blood sugar control is really important to you. Maybe some type of seven day, a week workout might be better than three days a week if it's going to have that kind of add on effect. Just little things like that. I'm finding I had a blood sugar spike from eating rice, but not something like tortilla chips, which was shocking to me. So it's not to say you can't ever have a blood sugar rise, but I think a lot of modern cutting edge medicine is saying like, hey, we really need to limit these things if we can. So I think for me this is a fun experiment and for a hundred bucks and a month's worth, I'm having a ball with this.
- [66:04]
Ginger
Yeah, I imagine this means that you're tracking every single thing that you eat.
- [66:08]
Brad
I am. So I'm, I'm loosely checking, let's say. So whether good or bad. I eat very similar stuff a lot of times, so it's actually pretty easy for me to say, okay, breakfast is this, lunch is that. So it's more just when I eat something unexpected or slightly out of the norm, then I can get a sense of, hey, how did that impact me? So I am actually going to try to branch out a little bit. And not to mention, we're recording this right before Thanksgiving. So that, that's gonna be an interesting one to see. But it also, when you follow a company like levels, you see, hey, one of the things you should really be doing is taking a little walk after you eat and then you can see how that helps mitigate the blood sugar spike. So long way of saying this is a really fun experiment and for that price, I, I couldn't pass it up.
- [66:55]
Ginger
I love the tracking stuff. I'm obsessed.
- [66:59]
Brad
Yeah, it's fun. It is fun. So, Ginger, this has been great. We're going to close this out with a clip. So Sean Mulaney, our good friend and he, he blogs over@fitaxguy.com he sent in this voice message because we got some follow ups. So we did a couple of really incredible episodes. So episode four 75, which I think is one of the best that we've ever done here, it was essentially how to access your money before 59 and a half. There was a revelation on the 72T. So if anybody hasn't heard of that, go back and listen to episode 475. We also did a follow up on that on episode 491. And then this voice message is a follow up to that follow up, actually. So again, that's one of the cool things about what we can do here at Jesus of Eyes. We can make this a living document. We can. Hey, if people have questions, if they have follow ups, if they don't agree with something like, let's play it and let's all get smarter together. So really appreciate Sean sending this in.
- [67:55]
Sean Mulaney
Hi everyone, this is Sean Mulaney. I wanted to check in about a question and answer that Brad and I talked about in episode 491 on accessing retirement accounts. Early in that episode, a correspondent asked about combining a solo 401k and the so called rule of 55. And you know, in that answer I said, look, there's ambiguity here. But my impression at that time was that those with a solo 401k probably could not qualify for the so called Rule of 55. That's where we separate from service, but are able to take from that particular employer plan, in this case, a solo 401k distributions prior to age 59 and a half and not pay that 10% early withdrawal penalty. And at the time I was quite concerned because I said, wait a minute, we're mixing a separation from service with a Solo 401K. And the Solo 401K requires an employer. So it'd be a little odd to claim, all right, I separated from service, but the employer can maintain the solo 401k by separating from service, I've essentially eliminated the employer. Right. Well, after that episode I did a little digging and that digging became a research project and that research project became a self published 27 page article. So I went back and I went to when the first self employed retirement plans were passed by Congress that dates back all the way to the year 1962. And there was some interesting history back then. Because what they said back then was, well, okay, you can have a retirement plan for a self employed person. But there was a very specific lockup back then. The rules back then said a self employed person cannot take any distribution unless they're disabled from a self employed retirement plan unless and until they turn age 59 and a half. And that has a very interesting implication for today's law. In today's law, as back then there was these rules that said, well, somebody who's previously been self employed can be considered self employed in the future. But it's very sort of cryptic. And so you say, well, what does that even mean? How do you apply that? Well, when you go back to the original enactment for 20 years, basically from 62 to about 82, the rule said that some or all of a self employed retirement plan had to remain inside that retirement account until the person turned age 59 and a half. What that meant was if that person retired between putting the money in and turning age 59 and a half, they're considered an employer. Right? Because the money had to stay in there. The only way the money that can stay in there is that they're considered an employer. And the rules didn't change in that regard. Now they took out that lockout, you know, they said, well, you could take it out prior to 59 and a half. They took that out in an act in 1982. But it's very instructive to show. Wait a minute. The rules back then considered a retired solopreneur to be an employer prior to age 59 and a half even though they were retired. So based on that research and the article I wrote, I now think the better view is that a solopreneur can qualify to use the rule of 55 for a solo 401k. However, a few notes, right? Just because my opinion about that has changed, that doesn't necessarily mean too much planning has changed. Although I think some planning has changed. One, you always have to look at the plan rules whenever you're looking at a Solo 401. The Solo 401K does not have to allow for user friendly rule of 55 distributions. Okay, so that just has to be in the plan. And you gotta talk to your plan provider before you start even thinking about going down the road of using the solo 401k and the rule of 55. Second thing is, my views are not gospel, right? And my views change. And I reserve the right to change my views and to refine and improve my views. I believe I've done that. I think that's part of the financial independence journey, is we can always get a little bit better and a little bit more knowledgeable. And in this case, I believe I've gotten a little bit better. But I'm not your advisor and you could read my article and see if you agree or disagree with the arguments presented. And then the third thing is, I think we got to be very careful around things like, hey, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do a side hustle for three months and I'll start a solo 401k for it at age 56 and I'll put my half million traditional IRA in that solo 401k and then I'll stop the side hustle. I think we got to be very, very careful with that stuff because it could be that the IRS says, well, that three month side hustle was never a trader business. It was born to die to facilitate a solo 401k. So it never rose to the level of a trader business that could sponsor a solo 401k. And now we got a world of hurt because we rolled a traditional IRA into an invalid Solo 401K. But for those of us who are solopreneurs who for years report schedule C income, have a robust solo 401k. I do think that if you work with your plan provider, this is an option. And I'll invite you to go to my fytaxguy.com blog. You can look at my article. It's a little dense, so, you know, you might have to read it more than once. But for those of us who are solopreneurs who have solo 401ks with substantial balances, it might be worth considering if we're thinking about leaving between the 55th birthday year and age 59 and a half might be worth thinking about. You know, I think this is an area where I hope the IRS and Treasury clarify the rules. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Thanks so much for listening and I'll see you next time.
- [74:01]
Brad
Yeah, Ginger, I totally agree. I love what Sean said. And like you said, we can always get a little bit better. And I think that is just something that we all need to keep in mind just in every aspect of our life. It's just these 1% changes. And this is an example of hey, he changed his thing thinking a little bit after doing some research and I just found that really cool.
- [74:19]
Ginger
Yeah. What a perfect note to close on.
- [74:22]
Brad
Nice. Ginger, as always, I love chatting with you. I love these episodes. And so Ginger, on your non fiction books, I think what we actually decided was we're going to put that in the newsletter. So that's going to go out the day after this episode goes live. So mid December should be December 17th if I have my math right. If you're listening to this and you're not on the newsletter, just go to choose subscribe or just go to our website and go in the top right corner. You can't miss it and get on the newsletter and maybe, just maybe we'll, we'll each compare notes on an episode in the future. But I think that was a great idea by you. So I'm really excited about that. And yeah, until next time. This is fun.
- [75:04]
Ginger
Till next time.