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ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast
612 | What Actually Happened? | Paige's FI Journey, Nine Years Later
00:54:36
A nine-year FI success story you need to hear
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- [00:00]
A
Hello and welcome to Choose a Phi. Before we get started, I wanted to give you a little context for this episode. Earlier this week, I re released one of my favorite episodes from the early days of Choose a Phi, episode 41 with Paige and Sam. It was one of those stories that really stuck with people. Here was someone living in LA on a modest income, embracing diy, believing that the Ali will provide, and pursuing financial independence in a way that felt accessible and real. But today's episode is the one I'm really excited about. When we first talked to PAIGE Back in 2017, she had a plan. She had a Phi number. She had a vision for what her life would look like. Now, nine years later, I get to ask the question I almost never get to ask, what actually happened? Did the plan work? Did life go according to that plan? What surprised her? What did she get right? And what changed along the way? I think these follow up conversations are some of the most valuable ones we can have. Because it's easy to talk about what we think is going to happen. It's much rarer to hear from someone who's actually lived it. Fi isn't about predicting the future perfectly. It's about building a life that's resilient enough to adapt to when life inevitably surprises you. And I think Paige's story is a wonderful example of that. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Paige and with that. Welcome to Choose Fi. Paige, welcome back to Choose a vi. After nine years, this is so fantastic to have you here.
- [01:26]
B
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
- [01:28]
A
So your episode 41 was one of those episodes that struck a chord with people. I think there were so many reasons. It was living in a high cost of living area, but doing it on a lower income and really a budget that people could look at and say, okay, look, any middle class person can do this. And DIY was another major aspect that you and Sam talked about. And of course, I would be remiss if I didn't start with the Ali will provide.
- [01:54]
B
Right. Yeah.
- [01:56]
A
That's one of the most amazing things we've ever heard here on 700 plus episodes. So does the ally still provide?
- [02:03]
B
Yes. Yeah, it still works. If you wait long enough, something inexpensive or free will show up to meet a need. For whatever reason. It is tried and true.
- [02:15]
A
I love that. Okay, what are the different aspects? So I know it is literally alleys
- [02:21]
B
sometimes, but yes, we'll start at an alley. It's more not an alley now.
- [02:25]
A
Okay, let's hear about the 2026 version.
- [02:28]
B
Yes, I have Two really good ones. One is we've moved into our house. We've been here a little while. I had started looking around. I wanted a couple of, like, outdoor chairs, something cool, something retro. We're very retro. Our house is 100 years old. We wanted something very retro. And we're walking down our. And our neighbor is pulling out these two, you know, the kind of steel 1950s style outdoor furniture with the curved legs. And I'm like, oh, are you giving those away? And he was like, well, I was throwing them away. I'm like, cool, I will take them. And Sam picked up one, I picked up the other, and we brought them home and cleaned them up. And they look great. And they're sitting in my front yard to this day. Love them.
- [03:13]
A
That's cool. Yeah, that's very cool.
- [03:15]
B
So it's just that thing where it's like, if you're looking for something, it'll show up, you know? At least that's been our experience.
- [03:23]
A
Okay, nice. My mind always goes to, like, college move out day, where people put the most amazing stuff just literally on the curb because they don't want to cart it hundreds of miles back home or wherever they live. Are there places that somebody who's listening to this, maybe they're not in a city where there literally are alleys, like, and that's, of course, proverbial for many people, but, like, where would one look?
- [03:46]
B
So we do combo. So we do a lot of, like, Facebook Marketplace. They have a free section, and I have a garden full of bricks that Sam has gone and gotten for me that I have laid in the garden to create this little, you know, are all the pathways in my garden have been with free bricks that have come from the free section of either Craigslist old days or Facebook Market Marketplace. Free section. And the other thing is, is sometimes your neighborhood will have a big item pickup weekend, and then all your neighbors, like a move out day, are just pulling their stuff to the curb. In the day of Ikea, it's a little harder to find good stuff, but if you just keep your eye out, it seems to still work for us. I mean, we still end up with some really cool stuff. Especially, like, the bricks. I mean, totally transformed my front yard completely for free.
- [04:41]
A
Oh, I believe it now. Has this become, like, part of your identity? Like, I don't mean this in a negative way, in any way.
- [04:48]
B
I wasn't taking it negative.
- [04:51]
A
Is there some aspect where, like, this is fun and accumulating stuff and just, like, finding ways to rehab and refurnish like, is that part of the fun or is it just like we are looking for something specific and when we find it, then we incorporate it into our lives or some variation thereof.
- [05:06]
B
I think it's kind of a variation. So I'm an artist. Sam is. I'm more of an actual visual artist, and he's more of a writer type artist. A writer, musician type artist. And so some of it is, that's the way we think about curating our space, is we want it to look and feel a certain way. And sometimes there's certain things that need to come along to make that happen. And we sort of see our house as like a giant art collage project. And sometimes you have to have more stuff than you need, and that can be what it is in order to make that work. But in the end, you know, we've been very fortunate that when things come together, we can end up with something really lovely. And then, you know, you try to get rid of the extra that didn't work out. And that can be where conflict lies. But other than that, it works for us. And we do live a very funky, bohemian, visually lifestyle. So we are not the fine minimalists.
- [06:16]
A
No, nothing wrong with that, that's for damn sure. And it makes me want to see maybe sometime when I head out to la, stop on by.
- [06:23]
B
Absolutely.
- [06:24]
A
So. And it's just a fun spirit of adventure, really, is how I see you guys and. Which is great. Like, and the whole concept of diy, it's funny because that really was a large aspect of what we talked about in the early years on choose of I. And frankly, like, not for any overt reason, but we just. We haven't had many people come on and talk about diy, but you two were memorable to me in terms of, like, hey, this can be a superpower. I'm curious, like, what does that look like now?
- [06:50]
B
I'm trying to think. Some of our last. I had taught myself to plaster walls. I don't know if I talked about that last time. And so. So we've saved a lot of money on kind of home improvement things. We've done pretty much everything. We handmade all of our trim that's around our windows and doors. We wanted to kind of, like, take it up a notch from the sort of builder. And this is 1925 builders, you know, we wanted something a little more little higher end looking. And so Sam was able to take all the scraps we had and, like, put it together to make this really lovely trim. And so we've been able to save A lot. Doing a lot ourselves. I will say that as you go along, that sense of what you're willing to spend money on and what you want to DIY kind of adjusts a little, because the more resources you have, that aperture of things that you can do widens. So sometimes. But time doesn't widen. It's finite in the sense of, like, there's 24 hours in a day and that's it. And so there are things that were a little bit more willing to. I got a camper recently. It's a 2005 Airstream. And we've done some of the things ourselves. We redid the battery system and things like that. But I'm gonna take it to a place to do some other maintenance on it that we're capable of. But at some point, you just say to yourself, there's other projects that really need my skills that I want my skills that I want what I do to be a part of it. And that is not recocking a roof of the Airstream. And so it's not going to be important that I did that, you know? And so we do outsource a few things now that we probably didn't in the old days out of maybe the more scarcity of resources, you know, I think that's kind of a real thing. I don't. I would assume that's normal for people. As your journey goes on, your resources change and then your priorities shift, and you have to shift those priorities. Otherwise, what are you doing?
- [09:06]
A
Totally agree. And, yeah, I mean, I think anything taken to its extreme, even something that's laudable and good can be a negative. It can turn into a negative.
- [09:15]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [09:16]
A
You only have a certain finite number of hours in a week. Caulking a roof of an Airstream. All right, maybe that isn't exactly the highest use of your time, but that said, DIY has served you exceptionally well. And you would never look back and say, like, any of these amazing skills you learned were bad. It's just that, okay, I'm in a different spot right now, and I'm still learning new skills and learning new things and diying, but maybe I don't have to do every aspect of it. And that. That's not a conflict. That's growth, as far as I'm concerned.
- [09:44]
B
Yeah, I think so. And it's also just picking and choosing, like, what are things that it is best for us to DIY because we want them to be this unique thing that requires only us, or what could we hire someone to do, like Sam Is building a shed in our back area, and someone poured the slab, because that is not unique, that is to say, slab of concrete. But what he is doing to build it for himself, Designing it as he goes, adding as he goes. No one else could do that. He has to do it all himself. And he has driven almost every nail except for when he can drag me out there to drive some nails. And I would say, I mean, at this point, we're at like, 80% of the materials being free and upcycled. It is very rewarding, and that's when it's worth it.
- [10:39]
A
Yeah, I love that. Like I said, it's been nine years, and when we last left you, it was 2017. I think you were somewhere around 47 years old, plus or minus.
- [10:50]
B
Yeah, it had to been somewhere in there.
- [10:52]
A
But you had told me that your first positive net worth was that year, so 2017.
- [10:58]
B
Yes.
- [10:59]
A
And you, I know, had worked up to making, I think, somewhere in the high 50s in terms of salary. So. And this is in Los Angeles, right?
- [11:08]
B
So, yeah, I was at 58k, I want to say, when we spoke. At least that's what I think. I even wrote that down somewhere. That might be the only reason I remember it.
- [11:20]
A
So that's what's so amazing about fi. Right. So you found. I know Sam introduced fi to you in 2014, 2015, with Mr. Money Mustache. And. And you started making moves. And like I said, you hit your first positive net worth in your mid to late 40s, and you had. You had a goal back then, I think, of $350,000 for your FI number.
- [11:39]
B
Yeah, my FI number was 350 to retire, age 55.
- [11:44]
A
Okay.
- [11:45]
B
And, yeah, I was well on my way. I mean, I feel like I would have made it then, even. But then life happens and things change, and I had to quit that job for reasons that there was a must hire situation where someone got a job that I should have gotten. And. But I had the ability to say, I'm not going to stand for this. I had the money, and I just said, okay. I said, I'll give you the two weeks it'll take to train this person. But. And I just quit kind of out of the blue. I had no plan, but I had this money that I'd never had before. And this is probably, I want to say, 2019. So just two years after we had spoken. Okay. And the person who I was supposed to train, I think she was a little self conscious about what had happened, and she was like, no, no, no, I'm good. I don't need anything. She had never done the job before. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, I get two weeks of playing around, visiting with my friends. Then I was working on the Sony lot and I was down on the main street and I bumped into a person I had worked with a couple years earlier and she had left to go work on shows. She was like, oh my God, it's so great to see you. I'm like, yeah. And she's like, what are you up to? I'm like, I just quit my job literally min ago. Yeah, literally like a day ago. And she was like, oh, cool. I'm just starting a new job. I will hire you.
- [13:16]
A
Wow.
- [13:16]
B
I was like, oh, well, I technically gave two weeks. She was like, okay, the job will start in three weeks, let's do it. And I was like, okay.
- [13:24]
A
Wow.
- [13:24]
B
And it was like a whole new chapter of my life. The door just got blown open. And it's really, really been lovely. We work together ever since. She's a wonderful person. We are friends beyond her being my boss. And it's been a really great experience. In the beginning, I think it was a slight loss. I lost a little bit of money. But then because I was working with someone who knew me and trusted me, she trained me and I worked my way up the ladder to being a post production supervisor. And I can't say that I'm no longer. I'm no longer like low income and a high spending area, you know, and that really made a difference to my. What my FI became. So I feel like I lost out on that, you know, sort of that little bragging point. But no loss for me.
- [14:17]
A
No, certainly no loss. Let's be clear.
- [14:19]
B
And.
- [14:19]
A
But I mean, the cool thing is you had planned, like you said, 350k was your. Your phi number, which suggests your annual spending was less than $15,000 or thereabouts.
- [14:30]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think of what the number was, I feel like, because it's also. I'm older than a lot of other people. So in the FI community, not a lot, but. So I was not retiring until I was 55. And it's bigger now than it was then. Then I was very much an anomaly. And now I feel like there's more of us, you know, there's more of us than there ever has been. And I mean, older folks, but yeah, I feel like. I think my budget was 22,000 because I had Social Security coming in a relatively short period of time, so I was planning on spending at a higher Percentage until my Social Security came in and then cutting. And lest anyone think I'm a crazy person, Big Earn did confirm at one of the five conferences that he thought I could do it too. So. Okay, okay. So I feel like I had made. I had made a solid choice at that point. And then when I started working for this new person, she had her own retirement thing. She's got a bit of a golden handcuff, too. Union here in Los Angeles, the motion picture union. And she was like, well, I want you to stay and work through this time. Which was past where I wanted to work to by three years. I was like, okay, I will do three extra years. So I actually tacked three extra years on, and I am technically inside that. But she got a gig that is a consulting gig, so I can't work with her right now. So I'm taking a sabbatical year and kind of test driving my phi, which has actually been really good. That first time you take money out.
- [16:15]
A
Tell me about that. Because I think that's something that gives some people the shakes. I've been saying it's a little discomfort for maybe five minutes, but frankly, I have not done it and you have. So I'm curious what that experience was.
- [16:27]
B
Yeah, it was bigger than you thought. Think it's going to be. I mean, not crazy, you know, let's not be crazy. But it's something you've spent all this time, you've saved all this money, it's so important. And then you go in and you're like, okay, this is it. And I found myself, like, really teetering around on like, oh, how do I want to do this? And finally I had to kind of, because it was just in there and I was about to do it, just like, pull the plug, do it. And I was like, no, no, no, I need to know what I'm doing. And so I sat down and I created a plan and decided that I felt more comfortable doing it quarterly because Sam does his yearly. And no, I couldn't do it. So I decided to go quarterly. And that has served me well. Like, it really helps me feel comfortable because I always say to people who question, like, well, what if the market does this or the market does that? And you say, well, you're not taking all your money all at once. And you're not going to take your newest money. You're probably going to take your oldest money or older money. You know, you set it to do the best choice for your taxes, but you're not taking it all. So that's not a big deal. As a matter of fact, I just had to go and I'm at a new quarter and I had to pull the quarter and I went in and of course it tells you like, oh, for the day you're down X amount because today the market is a little down. And I was like, oh, okay, whatever, and just took my money. You know, you just. I think for myself, and I think I said this on the last time we spoke, it's like you either trust the math or you don't trust the math. And I trust the math. It has served me and I've trusted the math for 10 years and it's worked. Like no part of it has not worked during the 10 years that I have been on my journey.
- [18:28]
A
Wow.
- [18:29]
B
Now, given everybody's talk of like AI bubbles and things, I have like a little section of my spreadsheet now that deals with like, if a 30% crash happens, how do I need to make my adjustments and what's this and what's that, you know, and clearly my number is higher than it was back then. Just because my income grew, there was no reason. And my lifestyle mostly stayed the same, so I was able to save a lot. Plus the market's been amazing. So, I mean, it's been an amazing 10 years to be on the FI journey.
- [19:05]
A
Oh, it certainly has.
- [19:06]
B
I mean, none of us in this 10 year cohort can complain about it.
- [19:10]
A
No, that is for sure. I'm curious though, is your FI number more than doubled, which therefore suggests your spending more than doubled. But I know last time we talked about your particular house and such and that was well on its way. So I don't know if your living arrangements have changed, but like, what has changed in your budget and has it made a material difference in your life in any way?
- [19:32]
B
Actually, not that much has changed in the budget.
- [19:35]
A
Okay.
- [19:36]
B
I would say there's like a slight looser feel of there's anything I want to buy, I put in my Amazon cart, I pop it over to save for later and I let it sit for, you know, which I think is a Frugal woods trick.
- [19:49]
A
Yeah. Good memory.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah.
- [19:51]
A
72 hour rule. She called that. I think that was episode 12 of Choose a VI even before your episode.
- [19:56]
B
Wow. Yeah. So I still do those kinds of things. Here's a good example. When we first spoke to you, we had gone on a 10 day trip or a 12 day trip to England and Sam and I together, flights and everything, thanks to your travel miles 101.
- [20:12]
A
Nice.
- [20:12]
B
We did the whole trip on I want to say it was under $2,000. And we just did a repeat of almost that same trip to England during this hiatus. And we did the whole trip all in for about $5,000. Okay, so, yeah, more, but not a crazy amount. I mean, okay, we doubled, but it's still not a crazy amount for a trip of that kind. And I think it was closer to 14 or 15 days. But we let ourselves do things that if it came up, we did it. If it was there, we did it. And that loosening of the budget. And we know we can because we know that the numbers have shifted. Because, I mean, Sam's been on permanent sabbatical for longer than I have. I mean, he stopped working 20, 19 maybe, and again another great 10 years. And as we always joked, he spent way less than I ever spent. Even with my frugal ways, he made me look like a spendthrift, you know. And so, I mean, it's not the same, but it's not that different. It's just a slight tweak in the mindset of, can we to. Is this something that we're going to value later? Like this trip? This. Most of it was things that we did, like a ride on the Thames, a train ride, someplace that was. We wouldn't have necessarily gone. You know, we went into Scotland to go to Edinburgh and things that we probably would. Well, not just probably. We did kind of skip last time in order to make more frugal choices. But they were all predominantly experiences that we look back now and like, oh, I mean, Edinburgh is magic.
- [22:11]
A
It is a beautiful place.
- [22:12]
B
Oh, my God. It's just magically. It's magically beautiful. I will never regret going there. I think that that's kind of how the shift happens in. It's more than in our living life. It's in what we choose to do extra, where we probably splurge more. Our life is still pretty cheap. I mean, I remember when Covid hit and we got unemployment. And I had always designed my life to be able to live on unemployment. And here that's like. I want to say it's $450 a week, and we got the supplemental, and I was able to save almost all of that. I mean, it's embarrassing. I mean, I feel embarrassed about it. But I was able to save almost all of that. And that includes when we were still employed, right as the crash happened, the little Covid crash that happened. And it was my first. I was still working out. Exactly when I would put money in the market and there had been all this talk of this thing going around and whether or not work was going to be suspended. And when the little baby crash happened, I was like, oh, well, forget it. I don't care if I'm going to end up unemployed. I've took all of my money imported in the market. I mean, I think I have always said I'm one of those weird people who has like virtually no cash on hand. And I went into unemployment during COVID with I think $1,000 in my savings account because I put the rest in the market. I was like, no, I'm not going to buy into this dip. I don't know when I'll see a dip of this size again in my lifetime.
- [23:48]
A
Well, that's amazing because that's really hard behaviorally. Right. Like humans, we all like to say that we're going to do that.
- [23:57]
B
Yeah.
- [23:57]
A
But man, when it comes time and it looks like the world is melting down, it's really hard to actually do that. Talk me through, like your psychology and your thought process during that time. Because was it just as simple as, wow, this is the opportunity I've been waiting for and you dumped it in? Or like, what other thoughts were swirling through your mind during that time?
- [24:16]
B
Yeah, for the most part. Because I remember I had a conversation with a coworker and I said, oh my God, I just poured all my savings into the market. She's like, what are you doing? We're. There is an excellent chance we are going to be unemployed. And I was like, yeah, well, I designed my life so that I could live on unemployment for a reason. So that when I needed to, I could do what I needed to do. And this, I mean, you do not see a dip like this often. I mean, I feel like it was like a 20%, 30%. It was a big dip.
- [24:50]
A
Yeah, it was something like, I don't remember the exact peak to trough, but it was something like 30%, I think.
- [24:54]
B
Yeah, it was a big dip. And I was like, I might not see this again in my lifetime. I'm not going to miss out on this. What's funny is it encouraged her and she took half of her savings and put it in the market too.
- [25:10]
A
That's wild.
- [25:11]
B
Because she was like, I can't go into this with no savings. I'm not insane like you. But yeah, you're. You're kind of right. Like, why wouldn't I buy this sale? And I think that that's one of the things that fire kind of does to you. Because at that point I've been on the journey for five years, and you kind of see the market and the ups and downs a little bit differently, or at least I did. I don't know. I mean, I'd never been a market person before finding fire, so I guess. I don't know. I shouldn't say. I don't know if it's different. It's just how I was. Maybe it's how I was trained to see it. I don't know.
- [25:49]
A
That's incredible that you've internalized it like that, because I know a lot of people still in the fight community who again, like to believe that they'd be able to do that, but then when the time comes, they find it dramatically more difficult. Myself, frankly, included in that. But that's really cool. I wanted to just also touch on. So I don't want to get bogged down in the actual unemployment part of it, but I love the. That you design your life to live your life. Basically. It sounds like if you said 450 a week, so that's what, like $1800 a month, thereabout. You basically design your life so that. Okay. Because, you know, people get triggered by crazy stuff, which I think is insane. So let's put that aside the actual unemployment, but just you designed a plan where if all else went wrong.
- [26:32]
B
Yes.
- [26:32]
A
You could still live on about $20,000
- [26:36]
B
a year, plus or minus about $2,000 a month.
- [26:39]
A
Okay.
- [26:39]
B
If I have to, I can just taking what I have now.
- [26:43]
A
What did that look like?
- [26:45]
B
I have a mortgage. We have a unique situation because Sam bought his half of our house himself and paid it off in full. We're weirdos. So he did that. It's funny because a few years later, with the market the way the market was, he was like, that wasn't the best financial move. I was like, well, but it was the right emotional move for you. So there you go. And he's like, yeah. I'm like, and it didn't stop you from firing, so you're fine. He's like, I know, but I think about it now, probably should have a mortgage. And I'm like, yeah, well, because this is sub 3% interest rate days.
- [27:21]
A
Okay.
- [27:21]
B
You know, so I have a sub 3% interest rate on that mortgage. I have a very small student loan which also has a 4% interest rate.
- [27:31]
A
Okay.
- [27:32]
B
And then all the regular things that everybody else has. I mean, we don't have a car payment, so I guess that's a little bit different. But I have a phone and computers and insurance and, you know, all the Regular stuff.
- [27:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. And it's funny because I think a lot of people just think that life is way more expensive than it actually is when it comes down to it. Right. We're talking about, like, the in case of emergency, break glass kind of scenario.
- [27:56]
B
Absolutely. I mean, this is a oh, no, how about you guys come over and we all potluck.
- [28:03]
A
Right.
- [28:04]
B
Kind of budget. This isn't your I live my life for the next 10 years budget. Although back then, I mean, well, that
- [28:12]
A
was your life for a long time, right? Yeah.
- [28:14]
B
I mean, it wasn't that far off from the plan. And it's funny because most of the things that have entered into the plan aren't our lifestyle things. They're things like we will travel more than we plan to because there's more money in my fire account, both internationally and domestically. I bought the camper because I knew I had this much fire money. I wouldn't have bought it unless that were true. And so if I was on my old budget, that just would have been something I just paired out because it just wouldn't have been as important to me. And I also was much more miserable in my work back then. So being free was such a much higher priority than if you love what you do, which I love what I do now. So the freedom portion has slipped in the priority chain a little bit. Because I love my boss. I love my work. It doesn't mean I'm going to continue doing it. You know, it's that thing. It's not the test of I wouldn't do it for free, but I love it enough that it's not a burden. Also, the shift to work from home changed that sense of how miserable I will never have to, but I would never go back into an office five days a week. That wouldn't be worth it to me.
- [29:33]
A
Now. That makes sense. And I love how there's so many of the fundamental principles of fi baked into your story. Right. Like, we just kind of glossed over the fu. Money story. Right. When you had a job that, for, I'm assuming, a multitude of reasons, just did not work out for you anymore. I know you mentioned one earlier, but you were able to just say, all right, look, I'm out of here, even though I don't have something lined up. And like we talked about with your story, it wasn't like your net worth was a million dollars back then. You had just reached positive Net Worth in 2017, so it wasn't all that long after that, which is wild. But when you Have a position of strength. You can make decisions that actually serve you, not somebody else, because you're worried that your whole life is going to implode.
- [30:14]
B
Yes. It's that little cushion. And when you've lived. I'd always lived very frugally and very. And I'd kind of grown up poor and grown and lived very frugally here in Los Angeles. And so the idea that I could quit and I had even a little bit of money to cushion that fall, it made it. I'm not saying it was easy because it was hard, because I had worked so hard to get where I was, but if I wasn't going to be able to grow there, what was. And it was going to be looked over, like, why would I stay there? So, yeah.
- [30:53]
A
Yeah, I love that. And along the way, of course, we talked about a bunch of these. These frugal decisions that you made that really served you in order to keep your cost of living down so significantly. Right. So, diy we talked about on the earlier episode, you mentioned having different living situations where you had roommates and your cost of living just was not very much. And I think it's so much fun to optimize. And I think regardless of where someone listening falls on the scale of low cost of living, high cost of living, et cetera, like a lot of us optimize, but we very rarely have the time to actually reflect back on a lot of those decisions. Where. Yeah, when you reflect back now, 10 years later, or really your adult lifetime, so a couple decades, like, are there decisions that were absolute slam dunks that really added to your life overall satisfaction, or were there any that you might not have done again, all things being equal.
- [31:47]
B
Talk about hard question.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah, think about your whole life, Paige, and get back to me in the next 10 seconds.
- [31:52]
B
Back to me in two seconds or less. No, I mean, I think that it has been that we have seized the opportunities to be frugal when they were there, and that allowed us later to constantly loosen that belt. And so, yes, we lived strange lives with multiple roommates and, you know, sort of handcuffed by cheap rent. But when the time came that that cheap rent was going to disappear because our apartment complex was being sold and we were priced out of our complex because when we made that choice, we didn't just spend that money, we saved that money. We were able to make a big move and buy the house. Then when the market was in a place that even two years later, we couldn't have afforded our home, I mean, I technically could afford My home now, but it wouldn't be what it was then. So it's like each time we were able, I would probably be working longer, but each time we were able to loosen our belt, we have loosened that belt. You know, we went from people and roommates. Since we've been in our home, we've lived with people, people, we've had people in our home. Most of the time that we've had our home, we've virtually never lived here alone, but we've never charged rent. It's kind of a commitment we made to have our house be a haven for the people we love in times of need. And weirdly became true. I don't know if you. I mean, I hate to think I manifest my friends misfortunes, but knowing that that was going to be. Even the way the house is laid out, we thought, oh, this would be a great place to have if someone needed to live with us.
- [33:37]
A
Okay.
- [33:38]
B
It's this great layout for the house for that to happen. And then we have friends who have gone through divorces and chemo and all kinds of things have lived here. And it's been lovely for us. You know, other people would see that differently. And I think that that's another thing that you are who you are. And the great thing about fire is it asks you to say, who are you and what do you value most?
- [34:05]
A
Yes.
- [34:06]
B
And when you do that, somehow the money does kind of fall into place a little bit better because you know what you value most. And you can look at your budget, you can look at your life and you can say, well, does my time and my money reflect what I just said is the most important thing in my life? And if it does, you're winning. And if it doesn't, you got to up your game.
- [34:29]
A
Yeah. And you can always adjust. Right. And that's the beautiful thing.
- [34:32]
B
Make a change.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah. What a blessing for your friends that that space is available in their time of need. And then, I mean, frankly, for you, I think if we're all honest with ourselves, it's wonderful to live with other people. Like when a lot of us look back, if I don't want to say everyone who went to college, but for many people who went to college, like living in a dorm or living in an apartment was like the best time of our lives because our friends were around, you could always had something interesting going on. Like, we all think like, oh, now we're grown up, we're going to get our own place. And like, as if that's a step up somehow, like to me, it's. It's a massive step down. And I don't know why this goes back to, like, people who pursue fi question assumptions. Society all says one thing usually. And I just find that very rarely are those, like, society says, like, actually true. It's bizarre.
- [35:25]
B
So when we've had people here, we cook together, or someone cooks, and then we all get together and we eat together. Because if someone cooked for you, you're not gonna be like, oh, thanks, I'm gonna go eat in my bedroom. But when it's just Sam and I here in the house, a lot of times it'll be like, hey, are you fending for yourself for dinner? Yeah. Okay, me too. Because we're on very different schedules. Because he stays up very late, I get up very early. We're a weird house where someone is awake 24 hours a day. And so our eating schedule can get, like, out of whack when it's just the two of us here, we don't even eat meals together very often when it's just the two of us. But when we have people in our home, we almost always sit down and eat altogether. And it's so rewarding to do that. You sit down, you hash out your day, you laugh, you joke, you talk about stuff. It just is such a nice, pleasant way to end your evening or begin your evening, depending on if you're me or Sam. So, yeah, I've enjoyed people living with us.
- [36:36]
A
There was a quote that you said the first episode, and I hope I got it exactly right. You're basically talking about the path to fi, and you said something to the effect of when you have something you want and you're getting something you want, you don't feel like you're sacrificing. And that just jumped out to me and that it's how I've always viewed Fi in that I've never felt that my path to fi was a sacrifice in any way because it was all in service of something really spectacular. And also, frankly, it's always felt like this fun little game where I get to optimize and win at life and live the same, in my case, upper middle class lifestyle as everybody around me, but actually get wealthy at the same time. And that's fun to me. So how much of this do you think is fun? And, like, I don't want to beat a dead horse, because I feel like I asked this variation of this earlier, but, like, has there been anything that you would even term a sacrifice in your head, or has it just been
- [37:30]
B
to the upside, I feel like for me it's all been for the upside. I will say too, like, the other interesting thing is when you're on a journey, you become a messenger for that journey. And the industry I work in, we always on our team, there's always a PA that person is always in their 20s. And I have bought so many of JL's books and hand them out to 20 somethings. Every PA that I've had I have browbeat into opening a Roth and one of them. And I don't know that this is true because he was a very determined young man and I think he would have done it on his own anyway. But he credits me with the fact that he was able to buy his first home here in Los Angeles because I got him going when he was so young as a PA and saving money and thinking about saving money and thinking about is the thing you want to do worth losing out on the opportunity for that to be money you put away so you can buy your house. Because he really wanted to buy a place and that aligned with him finding this really amazing woman that I think they're engaged by now.
- [38:40]
A
But hopefully he won't hear it there. She won.
- [38:43]
B
Hopefully he won't hear this. And so that ended up with this alignment of things that even for him. So it's like that passing it on to the next person. And that's been very meaningful to me to help people and know that I would have loved to know more when I was younger and had time. Because like you say, I mean, I was in my late 40s when I showed up at this party. To get someone and invite them into the party in their early 20s is always very rewarding for me.
- [39:16]
A
I love that you give Jael's book away too. Two things that you do or did are very similar to what my partner Erin does. And she had three bedroom house in Cincinnati and she rented bedrooms to travel nurses who would be in town for three months. And when each of them left, she bought them a copy of the Simple Path to Wealth, which is really, really cool. And yeah, it's just like how can you pass on this life changing knowledge just in a really, really easy way.
- [39:45]
B
Yeah. And in a way that sort of, I think more importantly than the fire stuff, which is great and I love it, but some people can kind of recoil from aspects of the notion, especially the, you know, re part. But the thing about Jael's book is it's not about that. It's about simplifying investment and that's the Most important thing, all the other pillars are harder to travel, but that pillar goes everywhere, does everything.
- [40:17]
A
Agreed. And yeah, for him it's just, do you have a savings rate and live below your means, quote unquote, and then invest in low cost funds or ETFs. Right. Like that's pretty easy.
- [40:26]
B
So simple. They can get going. And I always say just start and start with this simple. And then whatever you want to do from there, you will never regret that you started here and you started now. Never. I mean, I haven't heard a regret yet.
- [40:42]
A
No. And that's the funny part. And in the popular culture, fire, as you said, kind of gets ragged on a little bit in that like because of that re and because it's easy to caricature. But yeah, yeah. And that's why we very specifically chose. Choose fi well.
- [40:56]
B
And some of us are frugal weirdos. Right? Some of us are. And that I feel bad sometimes because it's like we're the ones that give the whole movement kind of a bad name. But tough, you guys can tough it out.
- [41:08]
A
No, you're. I don't think you certainly, if you're including yourself in that, I don't think you give anybody a bad name. I think ingenuity and DIY is, is fantastic. Who could have a problem with that? I think it's the miserly behavior that I think is maybe rightly caricatured in some people's sense, but most of it I just don't find true. Like the implication is you're going to be a drain on society or you're worthless if you're just sitting around doing nothing, if you've retired early. But I think we all know, like you've seen so many opportunities open up to you when you've opened your aperture. Right. And like to imagine that anybody, almost anybody, you could round to zero on the number of people in the FI community who sit around and do nothing. It's just, it's preposterous.
- [41:50]
B
Yeah. Also you are, for the most part stereotypically we're a little bit younger than the average, so there's that. But also you have that plan that you've been envisioning. Like when I spent this year test driving what will be the rest of my life, hopefully in two years from now. I was shocked at how much travel because I am not a travel person, but we had a few things we wanted to do and then there was a few things that we want to do before we get too old to do them because we are older. Like, we're going to Peru. We're going to do Monte Picchu. And it's like, well, now, I don't know, like, how long I'll be able to do that. And it's important to do these things when you can. And so there's been a lot more travel than I expected in this year. And it made me kind of adjust a little, the notion of what those first few years of five were going to look like, because it's like, oh, you know, it's true. I might. We might want to travel a little bit more in the upfront here because we are a little older and we might much more quickly. That travel might taper off for various reasons, not the least of which, you know, just normal aging.
- [43:10]
A
And I know we talked about this before we hit record, but that's why. Yeah, it really is so important to prioritize our health. None of us are getting any younger, that's for sure. No matter if you're listening to this at 22 or our age, Paige. Right. And it's. That's just the reality. But focusing on your health, that's an investment that, to me, is worth its weight in gold, because it.
- [43:29]
B
Yes.
- [43:29]
A
It lengthens the time that you can do all of these things that now you have. You have the time and you have the financial resources to do.
- [43:37]
B
Yes, absolutely. And using that time, like earlier, just saying, what do you want? And is your time and money aligned with that? And I think we talked about this before we hit record, too. Like, I started getting ready for this trip, and every single time I did the stairs, little Adair park, it got easier every single time. And I'm older, I'm going to be 56, and it still got easier every time because the body wants to move. I think my body wants to move. I shouldn't speak for everybody's body. Not everybody's body wants to move. My body wants to move. It wants to be in a better. Wants more activity. It wants more of that. So it's like it really just. Every single time I did those stairs, it got better.
- [44:22]
A
I wanted to talk about a couple things that might be counterintuitive to some people, or people might think it's counterintuitive, but might actually be superpowers. So actually living and pursuing FI in a high cost of living area and also discovering FI at maybe a later age, somewhere in your early to mid-40s, when you actually discovered it, we'll say mid-40s. So a lot of people might look at those two things as negatives. Potentially or challenges to surmount. I'm curious if, and I don't want to lead you, but do you think of either or both of those things as potentially superpowers or things that actually benefited you while others might think of them as potential negatives?
- [45:04]
B
Well, I can definitely say living here in Los Angeles. So as my life circumstances changed, the opportunity for income growth was probably higher than if I lived in a lower cost of living area. And so the fact that I experienced positive income growth over the 10 years that I've been doing this, I think that growth was probably now it was increased also by the fact that I had an amazing boss who really believed in me and really pushed to get our rates up and up. And so I'm very grateful about that. But that money was available. I mean, when I think about what would have been available to me even in this same industry, in a smaller pool, I don't think I could have made as much. So that's kind of a 50, 51. Because I also probably. I don't spend very much because my mortgage is crazy cheap. It's only eleven hundred dollars.
- [46:02]
A
Oh, wow.
- [46:03]
B
Yeah. So it's like fifteen hundred a month all in taxes and everything. Although we pay our taxes separately because that's, that's part of how, you know, the house is owned. It makes it have to happen that way.
- [46:15]
A
Okay.
- [46:16]
B
But yeah, I mean, my all in for my living is 1500, which for Los Angeles is really cheap. So that's kind of a, an odd situation.
- [46:26]
A
But you made that happen, right?
- [46:28]
B
Yeah. I mean, we have our house. I mean, it's not like. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. And we, we were really careful and we, I mean, we looked at a lot of houses. I think we put offers in on eight because it was bidding war time when we bought. It's either the seventh or the eighth house. I don't remember anymore. It was a long time ago, I think maybe seven. And we had to do crazy stuff to get our house, but we also weren't going to. It was always like, well, if you want to come back with your best and your biggest, and it's like, no, no, no. You asked for best and biggest last time. That was it. We're not playing the game. Like, we're not escalating. We're not falling in love with any of these houses. We have a number and we're not exceeding that. So we just walked away from those knowing houses are like buses. Don't get caught up. There's Another one coming 10 minutes later that might not Be true everywhere. But it definitely we were able to put in seven offers. And then, I mean, I guess the age thing, I guess for me I knew who I was before I started. I also had lived in LA in a way that was very cheap, inexpensive, and I had lived on very little because I had tried all kinds of things. Like my 20s and 30s were like a potpourri of like, what if I did this, what if I did that, what if I this, what if I that. And so I already knew I could live that frugally. Yeah. And so having someone say to me, yeah, but now that you have a little more income and you know you can live that frugally, look at what you can do with what's left over instead of just living larger. It was like the perfect timing to find this journey because I don't know that I wouldn't have lifestyle escalated had Sam not shown me the Mr. Money mustache. Shockingly simple math. And so I can't do the counterfactual. But knowing that I could live on less and had lived on less for 40 plus years or 20 plus years of my life and starting to earn enough to save it was like, oh yeah, then I would rather buy my freedom than anything else I could buy. And nothing has looked as good as that. Freedom has felt growing and I think it's easier. I have never had those same doubts that I see a lot in the forums of like, well, what if people think I'm weird? What if people think and I was 40 something, I didn't have that same fear of myself being weird. Like I've always been weird. So this is just one more weird to add to all the weird. You know, I think knowing myself was probably made it easier than if I had been young and making the choice because I do experience that with some of the PAs will say my friends think I'm weird because I'm. I said I didn't want to go out, I meet them later for something afterwards so that I can just have one drink instead of meeting for dinner and drinks. And it's like, well, but if that works. Did you have fun? Yeah, I had a great time. Like, okay, then it's okay, right? And I didn't have to go through that because I was already older and kind of knew myself better.
- [49:48]
A
That is a beautiful, beautiful answer. And yeah, one I would not have anticipated. Essentially, there was no major identity shift. This was just okay. I now have this knowledge. I'm armed with this knowledge after reading Mr. Money Mustache and then listening to our podcasts. And reading the Mad Scientist, or whomever it was back then. And okay, this makes sense. I'm moving forward. That's great.
- [50:09]
B
Yeah. And just this opportunity to get to this freedom, buying my time back. Because as an artist, I mean, that is what I was playing at being from my 20s and 30s, is to try to be the artist I wanted to be. And now I'm just flipping it over so that I work. And now when it flips over, I will get to be the artist that I intended to be, but without any concern about monetizing any of that. I don't have to monetize my life anymore. I can just enjoy what I do as an artist solely to do it for my own personal enjoyment. And that is wonderful. I mean, it's so freeing, Paige, that is remarkable.
- [50:55]
A
I have a million other questions, but I cannot think of a better way to end the episode than with that. I mean, that is the journey encapsulated. You get to live life on your terms. You have a freedom that you maybe could not have dreamed about prior to 2014, 2015, when you first found Mr. Money Mustache. And you've been pursuing this from the time when you had a negative net worth to now you've reached fi, and you now have literally decades to live into that freedom.
- [51:23]
B
Yeah, I bought an extra 10 years of freedom for myself than the average
- [51:29]
A
by just continuing to spend, in your case, the same amount of money doing
- [51:32]
B
kind of what I had already been
- [51:33]
A
doing, just being more intentional. Right. And when you made more money, you did not inflate your lifestyle. You saved it and you invested it according to the simple pathway building the
- [51:44]
B
calls from HR where they're like, I'm sorry, we just looked at your allocation to your 401k and we need to discuss. We think you might have made a mistake. It's like, no, no, that's really. I'm putting 56% of my income in my 401k. Yes. Thank you very much.
- [52:00]
A
Amazing. Oh, that is so beautiful, Paige. I love that. I absolutely love that. I suspect we're going to have a whole lot of follow up questions on this. We now have a comment section on the. The episode. Keep an eye. People can go. We now have this Choose a VI community platform and people can reach it just at the regular Choose a VI website. Yeah. Hopefully we're going to see a lot of follow up.
- [52:22]
B
Okay. Yeah. And we're in Peru and then we're in Mendocino. And so if I'm slow, I'm so sorry, but I do log in. I'm not a very big social media person, but it is the one social media that I kind of do. So I will definitely log in and try to answer any questions that I can.
- [52:42]
A
That's so cool. I have not been able to wipe the smile off my face this entire time. You can probably hear it. I know you can see it, but people can probably hear it. So this was awesome. I absolutely love, love that you got back in touch, and I'm just so happy for you.
- [52:54]
B
No, thank you guys for following up. I mean, it's funny because every five stories interesting, but ours has been pretty boring, and we trusted the math and we did the thing, and now here we are. That's it? That's. It's the whole story.
- [53:09]
A
Yes, it's been terribly boring. We. We lived in Los angeles on under $30,000 combined. We. The alley will provide. And we redo everything in our house with all these amazing things. We've lived with roommates and taken in people in their time of need, and we've tripled our income and. Yes. Terribly boring, Paige. Terribly boring.
- [53:29]
B
Yes, horribly boring. Horribly boring.
- [53:32]
A
And now we're. I got an rv and we're traveling in an Airstream, and we're going to London and Peru. Yes, you are a cautionary tale.
- [53:39]
B
Ridiculously boring cautionary tale. Don't do it. Anyone. Run now.
- [53:44]
A
Yeah, Run far and fast. This freedom is not worth it, Paige.
- [53:48]
B
Not worth it. Not worth it.
- [53:51]
A
Paige, you rock. Thank you again for being here. I really appreciate it.
- [53:53]
B
Thank you. Thank you. It was wonderful to catch up.