41:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/3xnt26d00_zk-.js","/_next/static/chunks/1s-yni1uf2lwd.js","/_next/static/chunks/42spz6paskvb6.js","/_next/static/chunks/06x30xgfe6iur.js","/_next/static/chunks/3b4qrzgkt_l12.js","/_next/static/chunks/15lgs8s22dk5l.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 43:I[63625,["/_next/static/chunks/3xnt26d00_zk-.js","/_next/static/chunks/1s-yni1uf2lwd.js","/_next/static/chunks/42spz6paskvb6.js","/_next/static/chunks/06x30xgfe6iur.js","/_next/static/chunks/3b4qrzgkt_l12.js","/_next/static/chunks/15lgs8s22dk5l.js"],"AddToLibraryButton"] 44:I[29721,["/_next/static/chunks/3xnt26d00_zk-.js","/_next/static/chunks/1s-yni1uf2lwd.js","/_next/static/chunks/42spz6paskvb6.js","/_next/static/chunks/06x30xgfe6iur.js","/_next/static/chunks/3b4qrzgkt_l12.js","/_next/static/chunks/15lgs8s22dk5l.js"],"ShareButton"] 45:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/3xnt26d00_zk-.js","/_next/static/chunks/1s-yni1uf2lwd.js","/_next/static/chunks/42spz6paskvb6.js","/_next/static/chunks/06x30xgfe6iur.js","/_next/static/chunks/3b4qrzgkt_l12.js","/_next/static/chunks/15lgs8s22dk5l.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 46:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/3xnt26d00_zk-.js","/_next/static/chunks/1s-yni1uf2lwd.js","/_next/static/chunks/42spz6paskvb6.js","/_next/static/chunks/06x30xgfe6iur.js","/_next/static/chunks/3b4qrzgkt_l12.js","/_next/static/chunks/15lgs8s22dk5l.js"],"SignupCTA"] 39:["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2021-06-04T17:16:34.000Z","children":"June 4, 2021"}] 3a:["$","span",null,{"aria-hidden":true,"children":"·"}] 3b:["$","span",null,{"children":"00:41:29"}] 42:T493,

For eight years, Ben Rhodes served as Deputy National Security Advisor to President Obama.

Now Rhodes has written a book — After the Fall: Being American in the World We've Made — about his personal post-Obama journey that sought to answer a simple question: What happened to the world, America, and himself as the undertow of history pulled us into the currents of nationalism and authoritarianism – and what we should do about it?

As he learned and you’ll hear, there may be simple questions. There are no simple answers.

Ben is the author of the New York Times bestseller The World as It Is, a contributor for NBC News and MSNBC, and co-host of Pod Save the World.

And as mentioned, sign up for a free trial of my daily briefing newsletter: chrisriback.substack.com/CRC

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.chrisriback.com/subscribe