B (2:41)

Keep in mind, when something hits, it hits quick. Cuz it was small. We had what, maybe 250 for us, right? That was kind of the, the high point was about 250 women. So when some. Something happened, everybody knew about it.

C (2:56)

Knows. Everybody knows. So I remember that day that you came. I was in the TV room and you know, the, the mirror. I'm sorry, the windows looking out onto the camp. You can see the cars coming up. And it was around, I want to say, between like maybe 11 and noon. I remember standing in the window and I saw the trucks coming and I was like, ah, so she did come. I was like. I was right. She's here.

B (3:20)

Yeah.

C (3:20)

So fast. Unfortunately.

B (3:23)

Right.

C (3:24)

So fast forward. At the time I was working in, had just gotten a position in a new program. It was the culinary events program. And I think you were in commissary when you first got there.

B (3:35)

Yep.

C (3:36)

And the officer was, was knew that you were into cooking.

B (3:40)

Right.

C (3:41)

And so she spoke with another one of the girls and she said, you know, do you think she would be interested in coming to work in the culinary program? And she said, I'm gonna find out. Her name was Amy. She said, I'm gonna ask her, I'm gonna find out. And we were in the, in the process of studying for Safe Serve. And somehow like the next meeting that we had for the people that were working, you came, right?

B (4:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I ended up sitting in on that and then ended up getting my certification as well. And it kind of blossomed from there.

C (4:12)

Well, the time that. So when you and I were together, we were study. Well, what was supposed to happen? There were three of us that were supposed to meet to study for Safe Serve. She didn't show up. Right. And we were downstairs in front of the GED room and she never came. So it ended up being just the two of us.

B (4:30)

Okay.

C (4:31)

And so we were sitting there and I remember, I think my question was, I was like, how are you doing? And I was like, I know for you, like for a lot of people this is a big change, but for you, this has got to be even bigger of an adjustment to go from one extreme to now, you know, sleeping in a cotton basically with 12 other people around you. And so that's when we started talking. And so the relationship grew from being in the culinary program.

B (4:58)

Yes, it did. Because everyone knows my passion is food. My passion's cooking. You are creative. And you actually brought a program into the culinary event planning space in Lexington, which was the balloon art, which was amazing. I remember you had some photos brought in, and we were all like. Like, oh, my gosh. And I'm like, I've paid people to do this for me before. And you're like, yes. And it was just. It was just so refreshing to have someone else that had that fire in their gut that had. We knew we were there for a certain amount of time, but I feel like we did the best we could do with what we had.

C (5:43)

Absolutely.

B (5:44)

Yeah.

C (5:44)

Yeah.

B (5:45)

For sure. And then you shared with me your letters to your daughter, and I thought that was the coolest thing. Right, so tell us. Tell me a little bit about that. Because you now have a book about it.

C (5:58)

Yes. So we would. Because you kind of were heading up the culinary part. You were in charge of making the menus. I was in charge of the decor part.

B (6:07)

Right.

C (6:07)

We ended up meeting outside in the pavilion a few times, and I was like, you know, I've been working on something. I've been writing these letters. I'm thinking about making it to a book. What do you think about it? And you were like, you should do it. You should do it. Know. And also, you were taught the real estate class, too. We'll talk about that. But I was like, I've been writing these letters, and I'm thinking about publishing into a book. And you told me about one of your friends that had published a book. You were like, when you get out, I'm gonna hook you up with her. I want you to think about it. And you gave me the book I.

B (6:36)

Think I shared with you. It was Mallory Irvin's book. Yes, yes.

C (6:40)

And then you always had the best book. So I kept coming down to your room, I'd get a book, and I come back and I'd be like. You'd be like, hold on.

B (6:45)

And you.

C (6:46)

You dig in and go up under your. In your locker. You had all these books, and you give me these books, I go read them and come back. And that's how, you know, it just continued to build. But going back to Letters to My Daughters from the Inside, which was a book that basically was birthed, because I think before you got there, there was a period that we had run out of stamps, so I wasn't able to mail these letters. So I just kept the letters on a legal pad and just kept writing them. And eventually I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna make these letters a book. So I, over a period of time, I was writing my daughters, something would happen in the prison and then it would kind of made me reflect and I was like, oh, I want to tell them. But instead of calling them and tell them the gospel, whatever, I would be like, here's what's happening, here's the lesson that I learned. So it just, you know, they begin to compile and then it turned into a book.

B (7:34)

I love that. Yeah, I love that. You know, just shows you that our time there wasn't in vain. No, you know, it really wasn't in vain. And. And you and I have had so many conversations just since I've been out about just relationships and the relationships that we build. And there is something about this closeness, this. I don't even know how to describe it because it is a bond that you have that you can't replicate it.

C (8:06)

Right.

B (8:06)

You know, and we talked about this. We've had friends that we've had for 20 years. And yes, I have dear friends and I love them. I cherish that relationship so much. But the relationships that you build, and not all relationships this way, I think if you're blessed and you're lucky enough to have these kind of relationships, then you're blessed and lucky enough. But it's just so different because it just, I think when you've experienced pain like that and you've experienced, you know, there's that old saying, you know, till you've walked a mile in my shoes, you don't know. But we kind of walked in our shoes together.

C (8:42)

Right.

B (8:43)

And I think it gives this bond that is just. And I think you come to when you're in prison, you don't have anything to give. No one can get anything from you. Really. It's the most real, organic for me relationship because we bonded over this likeness, over this spirit that we have of being like minded. And our hearts are like. We feel certain ways about certain things. And even though we come maybe from completely different walks of life, we have this bond that kind of supersedes any of that other stuff. Whether it's color, whether it's political views, whether it's religion, whether it's any of that. I think this is so much different.

C (9:36)

Yes. And I think when you meet people again, like you say you're stripped down. Yeah. It's a, an even playing ground. We have the same clothes. We got the same amount of money on our books. We have the same amount of time. We're working the same jobs. You're in the same space 24 hours, seven days a week. You're experiencing the same things. You're witnessing the same stuff. It's just grows, I will say, a lot faster, but a lot more organically and just more pure. Because, like you said, we don't have. We don't. We're not able to go out to dinner. We're not going to the movies. There's no distractions.

B (10:10)

Right. And where we were. Kentucky is a. Is different, I think. I mean, I don't really have anything to compare it to other than what other women come and say, but, you know, I know most of the other prisons are much larger. So we were basically not. Basically, we were in one building, and that's where we ate. That's where we slept, that's where we worshiped. That's where we watched tv. That's where we did everything in this one building. So it is different because, you know, even though you've got a best friend, you're not seeing them every single day. Waking up, going to bed, eating, sleeping, praying, whatever. You're just not doing that. So I think you're so right that the relationships become just so much more so quickly.

C (10:51)

Right. And you're experiencing all the same things.

B (10:53)

Right.

C (10:54)

Unlike whenever you're out and people may be going to their own jobs, to their own families. We're basically sharing the same family. We're sharing the same house, we're sharing the same food. We're sharing everything for the most part.

B (11:06)

And that's. And that's the good, the bad and the ugly. You know, I don't think we can sit here and talk about this that we don't talk about. You lost your father when we were in prison.

C (11:14)

Yes.

B (11:14)

And I will never forget that. I will never forget. I was upstairs on the third floor. I was sitting there playing cards, and you were. I think you were getting ready to leave, and you stopped and we talked. And that's something that you. You know, I feel like we had to be there for each other because it was all we had. Now, you were lucky enough that you got to go home and you got to be with your family for a couple of days. Then you had to come back. You had to come back and you had to grieve there because you didn't grieve in those two days you were gone. And I do. I think it totally changes your Perspective on so many things.

C (11:53)

Yeah, that was tough because when I left in August, when I reported to prison, my idea of what was gonna happen outside back home was, everybody stay right here. Don't move, don't breathe. I will be back. Just stay and I'll come back. And that didn't happen. You know, when I came back, I came back less a very important, significant person in my life. And so I was like, things change. I mean, that wasn't the only thing that changed, but that was so huge. But to your point, I think I was the only. That was the second person to get a furlough at after Covet.

B (12:30)

Right.

C (12:31)

There was one other woman, and then I was the second one in there. It was a little bit of pressure because they were like, you got to behave. You need to do this. Don't mess up. Because other people. This is how we're going to determine if we're going to keep giving furloughs based on the behavior and different things of the ones that are now starting to go. But it was tough because I just. I ran in. They gave me 72 hours to go get all the way to North Carolina and back to Kentucky, and it was just basically getting what I could get done. But the grieving didn't happen until I got back. And then the grieving really didn't happen until I got back home.

B (13:02)

Right, Right. And I think we, Todd and I have talked about this on. On this podcast before, how when you go into prison, you know, like you said, you're leaving and you're leaving your family a certain way, and in your mind it kind of stops. Like, in your mind, it kind of stops because it stops for you because you're not there. But it hasn't stopped. You know, it doesn't stop for your children, for your family. And you know, whether. Whether it's good and bad, you miss it. You know, you're missing those times that you can't get back.

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B (14:56)

We were actually talking earlier today how, you know, there's no way you can go through something like this and be the same person.

C (15:04)

Right?

B (15:04)

You just can't.

C (15:05)

No, I don't. And I think the part, the a part of the purpose of us going through it is so that we're not the same.

B (15:11)

Right.

C (15:12)

Anymore. But I'll say this for myself. When I transitioned back, it was like trying to put my old self, my new self into an old environment or an old set of expectations and old relationships. And not in a bad way. It just didn't necessarily fit back the way that it did before because I was different. People were different. And I'm not saying out of sight, out of mind, because I don't ever think I was out of mind. But people do adjust to you being away in their own way because they have to cope too.

B (15:47)

Absolutely.

C (15:48)

So they develop new habits and new norms. So if you're used to talking to somebody on the phone every day and you're not talking to them anymore, when I got back, the calls didn't pick back up because they had adjusted.

B (15:59)

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And. And life goes on, you know? And life goes on. And I think it's why it's. It's so hard for so many people when they come out of prison to just adjust to just. Because you're expected to just fit right back in where you left off. And you just can't do that. You know, it's just. It's not possible to do that.

C (16:20)

I remember, I think it was, oh, the episode or some of the clips that had come out whenever you were released and people kept saying, oh, Julia looks different. Julia's here. I was like, she is, though. Like, she is different. I don't think you understand. Like, I don't really think you all are gonna really know, but I can only imagine, like, she's in a different place. Just As a person, and not in a bad way. It's just. It's different.

B (16:47)

Yeah, it is. It is. And, you know, and as a matter of fact, today marks 90 days that we've been out. So, you know, that seems like, oh, my gosh, so long. But really, 90 days is nothing. You know? I mean, 90 day, 91 days ago, I was sitting in prison, thinking I was going to do a couple more years there, you know, and now here I am, 90 days later, sitting here with you, which is crazy. You know, it really is crazy if you think about it. And I think until you've done it, you don't. You can't even comprehend it. Like, it's something that you cannot even comprehend, you know? But, you know, we had our times. You know, we had our good times in prison. I'm gonna say, you know, we did. I feel like you and I handled it very similarly in that we stayed busy. We stayed busy. In that we were determined not to let it. Yeah, we had our hard days, but not to let it get us down.

C (17:47)

Right.

B (17:47)

You know, I taught the real estate class, and, you know, I'll never forget, one day I came to your room, and you had a few of the girls, younger girls were in there, you know, and they're like, what do we do? What. What do we do after this? You know, And. And I. I was telling them, although the only thing I really know to do, you know, and that was. But I feel like in so many ways, we were, like. We were able to mentor. We were able to just be an example for some of these girls that have never had it right.

C (18:22)

I remember that day so vividly because I was trying to talk them out of going back into, like, a criminal lifestyle. I was like, no, don't do it. Don't go back. And you just so happened to pop up, and you would always. Sometimes you would always pop up, and you'd be like. You look through the door, you'd be like, what you doing? And I'd be sitting on my bed, and I say, julie, Chrisley, what you doing? And then we just start talking about stuff. But that day, I was like, julie, help me. Like, basically, like, come help me convince them not to return back to. I think. I think they were, you know, selling drugs. And I was like, can you tell me something else they can do? And you were like, real estate. You was like, no, I'm telling you. And you started, like, breaking it all down, right?

B (19:02)

That there's so many different aspect of aspects of real estate. You may not be able to hold a real estate license, but you can do this, this, and this, right? And it is. It's amazing to me, you know, people, you know, before I went to prison, I'm sure it was the same way for you that they're like, you're going to a camp. You know, it's it's just like, you know, it's just. It's all white collar crimes. It's all whatever. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what your crime is or what you've been accused of, because as Todd says many times, prison is the greatest equalizer that there is. Because when you get in there, it's no different.

C (19:44)

Nobody cares.

B (19:45)

Nobody cares. Like, you know, I can't tell you I did not come home and start googling what people's crimes were, because I don't care if you are my friend in there. You were my friend in there, and you're going to be my friend now, you know, And I just. But it's not that way, you know, and there is a certain. There's so many of these young women who have never had any kind of guidance at all. And they so are just so hungry for it because they've never had it. So you have three girls. You know, we have children. We've been a parent for. Probably our longest job we've ever had is being a parent, you know, and so you do get to have a little bit of that while you're in there, because they want it. That's all we know is to be a mom. Even though it looks different from in there.

C (20:38)

Right.

B (20:38)

You know, and that's one of the toughest things I think about being there.

C (20:43)

And I think too, when you talk about when you've been a mother or you've been a wife or you've been a daughter, you've taken on so many roles for so long. I think that's where it gets a little different for how women cope in due time.

B (20:59)

Yes.

C (20:59)

Because we are then going from wearing all of these hats and doing all of these things to only having to wear the hat of yourself. And so that's. For me, it was one of the first time that I could only had to deal with myself.

B (21:13)

Me too.

C (21:14)

Because for what, almost 30 years, as old as my oldest daughter, I've always had. I've been responsible. I had an obligation to do something and to care for and provide for and make sure somebody else was good before me.

B (21:30)

Absolutely.

C (21:31)

So now I, in a weird way, get to only. It's sad that it took this for me to have to only worry about making sure I was in my room at whatever time count was. Other than that, everything else was semi optional.

B (21:47)

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, it's so true. And you. You get into that mindset because it's almost a survival mode that. That you become selfish in a way, you know, because you have to do whatever you can to protect your peace, to take care of you, because you don't have all the external luxuries of being able to take care of you. You got to really dig down deep to do it.

C (22:14)

But I needed it.

B (22:15)

Absolutely.

C (22:16)

I needed it.

B (22:17)

Absolutely.

C (22:18)

I did, too. I always say I was incarcerated long before I got to prison.

B (22:22)

Oh, 100%.

C (22:24)

And it wasn't the physical prison.

B (22:26)

It was the mental.

C (22:27)

It was the mental prison. It was the go, go, go. Do other people's expectation. You should do this. You got a degree. You should be aware. You should. Like all of these standards that was like thrown on me for so long, I finally was like, well, I ain't got nothing to lose. Now, everybody, you know my deepest, darkest secret. All of my stuff is out here in front of the world.

B (22:46)

Yeah.

C (22:46)

So now. Now what? Now I just can do whatever I want to do. Literally. Like, I. Now I get to rebuild and do me the way that I want to do it and not what everybody else is telling me or soc telling me I should do. And that coming back, people weren't necessarily accustomed to that. As the people pleaser.

B (23:06)

Absolutely. Me too. Me too.

C (23:09)

Was like, they were like, people like, hold on now. You. You said no, you got. You got boundaries for yourself. And I'm like, but prison also kind of made me feel like I was a little invincible because it was like, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Yeah, I'm going to prison. I already did that.

B (23:24)

Exactly.

C (23:24)

So now. Now, now was like, everything else is crazy. This. That's easy. That's a cakewalk. Like, what are you gonna do? And so, right. I came back a lot more focused. So I say selfish, but self full.

B (23:38)

I love that. I love that. Yeah.

C (23:41)

Yeah.

B (23:41)

That is great. That is great.

C (23:43)

Because I was pouring from an empty cup.

B (23:44)

Yeah.

C (23:45)

Now my cup is full because I'm. I had time to figure me out, like, what do you want to do? What do you. Like, when do you want to eat?

B (23:52)

Right.

C (23:52)

When do you want to go to sleep?

B (23:54)

Right.

C (23:54)

Which one of these three gray shirts do you want to wear? Which one of those? Or do you want to wear brown? And I learned to be okay. With the little.

B (24:05)

Right. Yeah, it is true. It is so, so true. We talked a little bit about this earlier. You know, we fought this case and have been dealing with this since 2012, and it was always in the background. And then as time progressed, it got closer and closer and closer and closer, you know, because it started out it was a business dispute, you know, and, and I, contrary to what the media and prosecutors say, I had very little involvement in my husband's business. I just, you know, I was raising kids. I had a real estate company. I didn't, I didn't have anything to do with his company, so he was even further removed from me. And then as things changed and as you know, the show picked up and as then another prosecutor got it, you know, so this is something that went on for years and years and years. So for you to say, like, I was in prison long before I ever went to prison, it really was the case for me. And then, you know, a trial which, you know, most people don't take theirs to trial when they have a federal indictment, they plead out and that's it. Well, we took hours to trial then, you know, we had the trial then that was in June. And then we didn't have end up going to prison until the following January. So I felt like I was in prison for so long before I actually went. And Todd and I have talked about this like our first. When we first walked through those doors, yes, I was afraid because I didn't know what to expect. But if I'm being 100% honest, there was almost a part of me that was like, yeah, it's over. Yeah, it's. Oh. And I know it's crazy to say it's over when you're just walking through prison doors to serve a seven year sentence, but for me, it was like, okay, this is over. You know, I know what I could. I know what I got to do. I know I have an out date. I know I can do this. I know that I am strong enough to do this and this is behind me. And I know that sounds crazy. And as hard as it was to leave my children, to leave my family, my husband, it was almost the sense of relief because all that was behind me. And it had taken up so much of our time, so much of our life that I can never get back, you know, and so those 28 months, I can never get that back either. But I also learned a lot in those 28 months.

C (26:39)

I remember when we, one day we were in. You were in my room and I'd Ask you. I said, tell me how you got here. But it wasn't a how you got in prison. It was like, tell me your story. I don't know if you remember. And you walked me through pretty much your whole, like, the series of life events, like the major life events. And I remember when you told me that basically how many years the investigation had gone on, and it had gone on a vast majority of the time that you had filmed the first show. So think. I'm thinking about it like this. Even when you were talking, if you were. If you think about how much you accomplish from that period of your life incarcerated, do you know what you can do now that you're free?

B (27:27)

That's good.

C (27:28)

You know, if you think about, like, I was this kind of pressure and fear, the unknown and all of that stuff, and we were able to do this.

B (27:36)

Yeah.

C (27:37)

Now that we're free, like, free mentally free physically, like, the, the sky is like, there's no limit now.

B (27:45)

Yeah.

C (27:45)

Because there's no.

B (27:46)

True.

C (27:46)

Yeah.

B (27:47)

It's so true. And then, you know, again, you know, I'm always the, the very. The realist, you know, but then we always talk about, you know, even though. And I'm so grateful, you know, we received a full unconditional pardon, but there's still that stigma. You know, there's still that. And you talked about this of like, what am I going to do? You know, I'm a college educated, smart woman, but what am I going to do? Because I have this thing still looming over me, you know, because it really is. No. And, you know, there are other countries that when you do your time and you complete your prison sentence, your record is wiped clean so that you can truly start over. And I feel that to me, that should, that's the way it should be here, because it should not have to be something that. And I get. There's, there's extenuating circumstances to everything. And I'm, I'm just talking like us.

C (28:43)

Right.

B (28:44)

But it shouldn't have to be something that's just lingering and leaning. Lingering over you for the rest of your life. And I think people don't understand. You know, we, we love to talk about prison reform and, and, and talk about, you know, the rate of recidivism and why people go back and how dumb it is. Like, you know, you went to prison and here you are going back, but people don't stop to think about that. We turn people loose on the streets that have been incarcerated for sometimes years with very little rehabilitation, with no skills. And then you Come out into a world where you're ostracized and where you're told no every single time. But you're expecting these kids sometimes that all they know is dealing drugs or being with a drug dealer not to turn around, do the same thing again.

C (29:41)

Right. And especially now. We were talking earlier. You said when you came out you were surprised at the prices of food.

B (29:47)

Yeah. I mean, and I'm not somebody. Listen, I have led a. I have had a very blessed life. And I've never, you know, it's been a long time in my life that since I've had to like, like penny pinch and worry about like, how much this costs, how much that costs. It was so much just going to the grocery store or going to a fast food restaurant. It's insane. Like how somebody with just a 9 to 5 making a minimum wage, how you even survive.

C (30:14)

Right. And I was only gone a year. And I always tell people, they said, what changed? I said, eggs. And AI. I was like those two things. I was like, eggs? Like, oh, yeah, we won't be baking anything. And then I was like, AI. People kept talking about it. I was like, what is it? Literally that time frame was when it. I'm not gonna say it came out because it was probably already out, but became more in use to the general public. I was like, you do what you tell it to do. What? And so imagine someone who's been gone a longer period of time, even who's gone now, and all the advancements, and they don't have the skills. You don't even have access to Internet.

B (30:52)

And that's what I think people don't realize. Like, I went for 28 months and never saw a computer.

C (30:59)

Right.

B (30:59)

I never saw a phone, never was able to Google anything.

C (31:04)

Right.

B (31:05)

You know, So I mean, it took me back to like 1990, where I had to be at home at 9:00 o' clock to watch something on TV.

C (31:13)

Right?

B (31:13)

You know, there are. There is no streaming. There is no binge watching. No. You watch one episode every week, right. Of whatever show you're watching. And that's what you do.

C (31:24)

And we had what old throwback movies that probably bought, that came out of Blockbuster. Blockbuster, that's what you're watching. So when you come out, it's just like, hold on, what do you know? You have to adjust to so many things and they're the program in there. Even if you think about how. Because I worked in the education department when I first started, I was in ged and the only thing that's required educationally by the BOP is that you get a ged, Right. There's no furthering past that. If you want to get a degree or whatever, you have to do the correspondence courses. And it's on paper.

B (31:58)

Yeah.

C (31:59)

It's writing.

B (32:00)

Yeah.

C (32:00)

Who's writing?

B (32:01)

And I know that for our prison, there were no colleges that would even. That would even like, partner with Lexington so that the. The women could even do any kind of education. So there's nothing.

C (32:16)

No.

B (32:16)

You know. You know, you hear like, it's crazy to me because, you know, I would. You would read things. Oh, I got my doctorate degree in prison or I got my masters and I did this. That wasn't available to us. There was nothing like that available to us to better ourselves.

C (32:33)

They introduced what electrical and construction. I think they were trying to bring it kind of at the tail end.

B (32:40)

Right.

C (32:40)

But that was for the mom.

B (32:42)

And this is my thing. Electrical and construction. That's all good and great, but even though it is 2025, you're going out here into a workforce as a felon, as a woman competing against men in a predominantly male industry and think that you're going to. You're going to have a leg to stand on, you know, and that was. My thing is like, why are we not teaching women to do things that women do? And I'm not putting us in a box because I believe we can do anything that we put our minds to. But you still have to be realistic and thinking that, okay, very few of us are going to go out here and be an electrician or be a plumber. I mean.

C (33:24)

Right.

B (33:25)

It is.

C (33:25)

They didn't have a lot of, I'll say, feminine leaning. And I'm being very. Don't counsel me.

B (33:31)

Right.

C (33:33)

Trades that even if we're talking trades.

B (33:36)

Right.

C (33:36)

Culinary had just gotten introduced.

B (33:39)

Right.

C (33:39)

It was at the males prison, which was. We were kind of like the spew over, like the leftover. Not a real program. You kind of semi. Right in there. But even things that. And there's so many women, you know, the talents and skills, the card makers, the people that's making posters.

B (33:55)

Yes.

C (33:56)

They didn't even have a. A beauty. The beauty. So I don't think they were given certifications.

B (34:00)

No.

C (34:00)

There's nothing. And there's people who have been there for years.

B (34:04)

Yes, yes.

C (34:05)

And even the ones that's doing the technical stuff, a lot of those jobs now, again, they have software they're using to do the jobs that we're not. They're not trained.

B (34:15)

They're not training that they're training the most basic, antiquated version of everything that you can possibly do. And, you know, and. And that's what I think. Yes, there's corruption. There's all the things that. That we continue talking about and everything. But at the end of the day, what are we doing to take all that away? What are we doing to really help and help women to be able to go out here, to be able to support their families, to be able to be a better mother, to be a better daughter, to be just a better version of themselves? We're not, you know, and thank goodness you and I have. Have been able to. To maintain relationships. And you've said so many people have reached out to you just for help and guidance. And what do I do and where do I go from here? And to me, that's a blessing because that also says that our time wasn't in vain.

C (35:14)

And I'm honored that they believe in me enough to think that I can help.

B (35:19)

Right.

C (35:19)

You know, I don't always have the answers, but, you know, we keep. Every day we lay a brick, and one day we'll have the wall. Right. I don't know exactly what the end result will be or how this is going to play out, but I strongly feel that all of my steps are ordered, every single one of them. Even me going into that prison.

B (35:39)

Absolutely.

C (35:40)

And so there was a purpose for me being in there, and I wanted to make sure that I was a good steward of my time and that I was in service to myself, so that when I came out, I was going to be a better version of me, which spewed over into me being a better mom, into being a better friend and being a better daughter and being a better person, just in general. So now when I'm talking to the ladies, I keep saying, just hold on. It's coming, it's coming. Just keep putting it. I know you can't see. May not be clear. Don't go back.

B (36:11)

Don't go back. Exactly. Exactly. But I think what people don't realize is, and Lexington was a little bit different, their setup, than other prisons. Lexington was not a standalone camp. Lexington for women is a satellite camp off of the men's prison that is there, which is a medical facility. The women's camp is not a medical facility. It is a working camp. And I know people in the press, look, you know, they would always be like, something's wrong with Julie. She's at a medical facility. No, I was not. And the sad thing was there were so many women that were sent there because judges thought they were going to get this special medical care. They didn't even know when they sentenced them to come to Lexington Prison. They thought they were going to a medical center, and they weren't because it was a working camp. And the women, we had to do everything because the men's facility was what is considered behind the fence, meaning there were all custody levels there. Because most of the men were sent there because they had some kind of medical issue. So, I mean, we did everything, you know, from.

C (37:17)

For both places.

B (37:18)

Yes, for both places. For the men. So you had men sitting in there 24, seven, doing nothing other than cooking for themselves or whatever they did inside those walls. But the women did all the, all the maintenance on the vehicles, on all the. The lawn. Maintenance. I'm talking cutting trees, shoveling snow, doing all the grass, cutting weed, eating asphalt, land, everything.

C (37:47)

Doing the floors.

B (37:49)

Floors, pipe. Yes.

C (37:50)

Putting in cameras. Like the women kept the prison.

B (37:54)

Yeah.

C (37:54)

And they kept the men's prison like they were, you know, because the men couldn't come out of the fence. So everything on the camp, the women took care of it.

B (38:02)

I know. And it's just crazy.

C (38:04)

Think about it, right?

B (38:05)

And, and keep in mind, for pennies, literally, it's the only place where slave labor is still live and kicking.

C (38:14)

Because one of the highest paying jobs would have been what, commissary. And commissary.

B (38:18)

Yeah, commissary, I think, is. That was. That was the highest paying position. And then like your warehouse. But these girls would go out and they would mow grass all day long, five days a week. And they might make $19 a month, $20 a month, you know, and it varied. It varied based on how much money there was to pay out, which was odd to me.

C (38:42)

I didn't even look at it.

B (38:43)

I was like, I mean, it's just.

C (38:45)

It's like $30. I work and I have like 24, $30. And I'm teaching. I'm doing GED.

B (38:51)

Yeah.

C (38:53)

I'm trying to get help. People get there a little bit of education that they can get, that they're a little bit of help they were offered in there. And it's just like, you know.

B (39:03)

Yeah, it, it, it's crazy to me. It's crazy to me. But, you know, we kind of had our schedules down and when we were there. I know you did too. You know, Sharita actually did exercise a lot.

C (39:17)

Yeah, I don't look like it, but I was, I was exercising a whole lot whenever I was. My past doing.

B (39:22)

Shara took it old school. Shara was doing some step classes.

C (39:26)

Step, honey.

B (39:27)

Stepping on them old, old boards. What do you call them things?

C (39:30)

Them step. The step boards, the little board things.

B (39:33)

Oh, yeah. She was stepping it out under that pavilion. Under that pavilion.

C (39:37)

Yeah. That was. That was like when I got there. So when I first got there, I was like, I'm going in, I'm coming up looking like, I'm gonna get fit. I'm gonna get fit or die trying. That was my goal.

B (39:49)

Everybody has that goal.

C (39:50)

I feel I'm gonna come out and I'm gonna be for up fed fine. And so I remember when I was in the hold and sale before, you know, when they process you through R and D. Right. I was in there doing push ups, Julie. Like in the holding cell.

B (40:01)

Like, yeah, I'm going be buff when.

C (40:03)

I come out of here. And so by the time I got over, I started walking the track. The track led to me taking classes and then stepping and then teaching the classes. And it was just like out from sunup to sundown. It had gotten to the point where I was just like. It was. But it was a way to pass the time.

B (40:17)

Right.

C (40:19)

You know, prior to that, I was working in ged, and then we went to the culinary after. And other than that, I was stepping, right.

B (40:26)

Yeah, you were, you were stepping. But, you know, I feel like we made as good a use of our days as we could. We both stayed busy doing something. Whether you were working in ged, I was working in commissary, you know, and you did kind of get that, like, schedule. I knew, like, and that's why I like to work, you know, everybody was like, why did you work in there?

C (40:44)

Driving that Fort Lyft.

B (40:45)

I could not imagine not working because it helped the days go by so quickly, you know, and then you might be outside and it's 100 degrees. You come inside and it's 100 degrees, you know.

C (40:56)

Right. Which is why the culinary program was so, like, awesome. Because we were getting air.

B (41:02)

Yes.

C (41:02)

We were really getting air.

B (41:04)

Yeah, yeah. Where we did a lot of our work was in an air conditioned building. And that was like, oh, thank you, Jesus.

C (41:11)

This is a perk.

B (41:12)

I mean, it really was. It's sad to think that that is considered a perk, but that was a huge perk work.

C (41:17)

Huge one.

B (41:18)

You know, to be able to just have air.

C (41:20)

Yeah. You know, because it was. That building was getting up to 100 on those top floors.

B (41:25)

Yeah. Well, I remember when I first got there that first summer, they were doing these like temperature checks. So on the third floor, it was like 120 degrees. I'll never forget that. That's crazy to me.

C (41:37)

Yeah. I just remember people having those little sweat.

B (41:40)

Yeah. The little frog things. Yeah.

C (41:44)

And just sitting. It was to the point where sometimes I would just, just sit there. Like, don't move.

B (41:49)

Yeah.

C (41:49)

Just lay here. Because if I even turn move a muscle, the sweat is just pouring down. And then all the fans. Did you have a bunch of fans on your bed?

B (41:58)

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I had the fans everywhere. But you know, and then like I said, you had the women that were outside working on cars all day, weed eating, then mowing the lawns, outside in the heat all day just to come into 100 degree weather, you know, so it definitely was not a lap of luxury. Anybody says, what, club fed or whatever, they never been to a good club, obviously. Obviously. Cause they are. We were broke down.

C (42:22)

And anytime your freedom is taken and your ability to move about in the world in the way that you choose, you're in prison.

B (42:29)

Absolutely.

C (42:30)

I don't care if you're behind a fence, you know, And I'm not. I always tell people and they say, oh, you amazing. I am not in the suffering Olympics. I am not trying to out suffer you.

B (42:38)

Me either.

C (42:38)

You can have all the badge of your hard prison time. I am telling you what I experienced.

B (42:43)

Absolutely.

C (42:44)

I. This was prison enough for me. It was enough for me.

B (42:47)

Yeah, it was, it was. And you know, anytime you're. And even I think sometimes in a camp because you can move and you, you do have a lot. And I think where we were, we've talked about this too. We had a lot of freedom.

C (43:01)

Right.

B (43:02)

But sometimes that's even worse because you're like, okay, if I can do this and there's one officer in this entire building all day and I can go and do as I please, why can I not be out here working? Why can I not be on home confinement? Why can I not be being a productive member of society that I have been for the past 50 years?

C (43:23)

And then if you slap me with a restitution, why don't I just go work and try to at least pay some like this 12 cent that you're giving me or whatever.

B (43:30)

Right.

C (43:31)

How is this helping exactly?

B (43:33)

It's not, it's, it's not.

C (43:34)

Right?

B (43:34)

It's not. And that's where I think there's such. This, this, this. It's going to always be this like constant give and take. Is a camp really feasible? Is a camp, does it make sense? Is it. What is it. Like, what is it? Because to me, if you can be in a camp, you can be on home confinement and have parameters of being on a job, of paying taxes, of paying restitutions, but at least you could be there with your family, with your kids, you know, because, you know, my dad did say this, and I agree some of the things. I don't agree today, these days with him, but I did agree when he said, when your loved one is sentenced to prison, everybody's sentenced to prison.

C (44:20)

Everybody.

B (44:21)

You know, it's not just us, but they were too, in their own way. Because, you know, when your loved one is somewhere where you can't get to them or they can't get to you, and. And everybody suffers, you know, everybody suffers. And, you know, and. And. And I just don't think people realize it because it's like, with anything, if it doesn't affect you, it's kind of out of sight, out of mind, you know, I can tell you I never really thought about prison. I'd never been. I'd never experienced it on a personal. Like a personal level to know that, you know, someone sitting in there, they're relying on someone else to send money to them so that they can have hygiene. Hygiene, deodorant, toothpaste, you know, that they're relying on someone else to send them a book or a letter or, you know, money to be able to make a phone call. You know, something that simple. We don't even think about it.

C (45:25)

You know, I was just. When you were talking about that, that those were some of the most exciting times whenever people were getting mail.

B (45:32)

Yeah.

C (45:32)

You remember, the list would go up and it was almost like a. Oh, I just hope my name is highlighted.

B (45:38)

Which meant.

C (45:38)

Yeah, you had mail. Right. You were getting something. Which, in my opinion, feels like, I'm not forgotten.

B (45:45)

Yes.

C (45:45)

Somebody. Somebody still knows that I exist. I'm here. Some are. That's what, you know, something's coming in. It's a magazine, it's a book, because you didn't send it to yourself. So someone, for the most part, something had to be initiated. And so it made you just, in my. For me, feel like, oh, I haven't. I still. I still matter.

B (46:05)

Right. Yeah. It kind of goes back to the. Where we were talking about friendships and. And people that didn't forget about you, you know, because you remember those people that just sent you a card or sent you a magazine or a book or, you know, just took the time to email you and the ones that you never heard from.

C (46:27)

Right.

B (46:27)

You know, It. It does. You. You think about. I mean, or. I have. I've definitely thought about it.

C (46:33)

You know, and then. And I know you probably had a lot of people who you didn't even know. I had a lot of individuals, I'll say this for myself, that I didn't even know cared. It was some of the most unlikely people.

B (46:47)

Absolutely.

C (46:48)

Showing up up versus the ones I thought were going to show up that did. And I was like, oh, who is this? I mean, people that took the effort to go on the BOP website, figure out the address, sending me stuff.

B (47:00)

Yeah. Because that was an easy feat. You know, everything. They. They're very specific with what you can receive. You know, it got down so far as you couldn't send anything on lined paper and, you know, no, you know, color this or. It was just crazy. All the different parameters that they put on. Just someone being able to send you a letter.

C (47:20)

Right.

B (47:21)

Which is just crazy to me.

C (47:23)

But, you know, there was photocopy, and you couldn't even get real photos unless they came through this. Like a.

B (47:30)

One of the apps. One of the apps, yeah. Yeah.

C (47:32)

They were copying cards. You could even get the actual card.

B (47:36)

I know. Which is just crazy. It was crazy to me. And I would tell people, I was like, don't spend a lot of money sending a card because I just get a copy of it. And it's so. It's just so. So it was like. It was crazy. But listen, so tell me what you're working on right now.

C (47:51)

Okay. So I. I was sharing with you in the car that when I was in Kentucky, I was debating my whole life, like, what do I want to do with myself? And I kept landing back on what I'm doing now, which is working with my daughter with our event company, which is another reason why I'm here in town.

B (48:06)

Right.

C (48:07)

And, you know, we have been running Party of Five events and doing a lot. A lot of events. It's been a blessing the way things worked out and came back, rebuilt the business and so just working to expand and get more exposure for the business. And so that's. That's my. That's my. My jig. Check me out.

B (48:27)

I know, it's amazing. I mean, I've seen, of course, you know, on Instagram and then I was able to see some. Some photos and stuff that you have. It is amazing. And it just goes to show you that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

C (48:39)

It is.

B (48:40)

There is. Yes. It was. It was a crappy time. It was a crappy time for us but we developed some amazing relationships.

C (48:48)

Absolutely.

B (48:49)

We came through better. I believe it. I believe better. I believe stronger. I believe more determined now because listen, we know what we've been through. We know we're not going back there. So there's nowhere else to go go but this way.

C (49:04)

I had, I asked you a question in the car. I said I'm not going. I said, hold on, I'm gonna ask you when we get there.

B (49:09)

Okay.

C (49:09)

Did you have to have that experience if for your life to be. To be where you are right now?

B (49:16)

Absolutely. Absolutely I do. Now I'm not saying I haven't had those times where I have questioned, question God, I've questioned myself. But absolutely I believe it. And I believe that right now I'm on this cusp of what I'm supposed to do. You know, what is Julie Chrisley really supposed to do? Where am I going to find this? What I'm truly meant, when am I coming in? And I know it sounds crazy at 52 to say when am I coming into to my true authentic what I meant to do? And I know that it's there, but I do feel like that what I went through is going to pave the way and going to be part of that journey, moving forward, whatever it looks like.

C (50:13)

And then the other part that I asked you in the card, I said, I ain't going to ask. I'm holding this off.

B (50:17)

Yes.

C (50:18)

The biggest change in you from pre prison to Julie now, like, how do you.

B (50:25)

Okay, what is the biggest change for me? And I said this to you, I was not. I was not this soft, demure, delicate flower before that just has never been me. It's really not me now. But I also feel like I have such a different perspective of life. I feel like things that mattered to me before don't matter. They matter differently now. Let me say that it doesn't mean that I don't want a beautiful life, that I don't want things, that I don't want to be successful. But I see it differently now. You know, I see. And listen, I'm 52 years old. You know, there is this, this starting over to a certain degree. Now listen, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I am so blessed and so favored and that I am such. In such a better spot than 99.9% of people coming out of prison. I'm not going to sit and tell you that I'm not because. Because I have been. But there's still a starting over. There's still this rebirth that's that's taking place because, you know, it's just a. The natural progression of life. And when something like this happens, that is so. And for me, in the spot, in the public eye and just. And you know, you have the naysayers, you have people that are going to support you, people that think we should be rotting in prison. Listen, that is what it is. I've never really. I've not been one out of every member of my family. They will tell you, Mama is the one. She don't ever read a comment. She'll never pay attention. I know who I am. I know. I know who I am. I know what my marriage is. So people out here that want to talk about my. Go ahead. That does not faze me. Then phase me in the least. I don't even know where I was going with that. I just got off on.

C (52:37)

Well, we're talking about how. How it changed. Yes, but you said something that made me spark another. Another thought. I feel like I would tell people when you've accomplished a lot and you lose it.

B (52:53)

Yeah.

C (52:53)

That's a different feeling for when you are striving to get somewhere that you never get there. But when you got it and it's like right in the palm of your hands and I'm. I don't know if you've had this, like, if you feel this way. I feel like. But you had it all and you lost it. This is a different rebuild.

B (53:10)

It absolutely is. It's absolutely. And to say the older you get, the harder it is. I mean, I'm just being honest because, listen. And you experience this in a way that I can't even begin to. But I think being in prison, it causes you to really look at your own mortality and look at. Okay, I'm sitting in here in this prison, really accomplished accomplishing nothing. And I've got less days on this earth to live than. Than I. I've already lived more of my life than I have left to live. And that's a sobering thought. So it causes me to almost panic, like, oh, my gosh. There's so much more that I want to do. There's so much more that I want to accomplish. I got to get busy because I've lost 28 months of my life that I can't get back. 28 months that I can never recover. But that's why these next 28 months has got. I gotta really do something.

C (54:10)

Right. Right.

B (54:11)

You know, And I think we will.

C (54:13)

I think so. I mean, I hope cooking is part of it. I remember Those big side. Those big sandwiches that you used in the culinary program, y'. All, she used to make us these sandwiches, and they have, like, 59 pieces of meat. They were the biggest, biggest sandwiches. And you would bring them. And I. I was telling. I'm gonna share this whenever I posted, whenever you all got pardoned.

B (54:36)

Yes.

C (54:36)

I was telling Todd earlier, I got drugged through the mud hunting. I think I told you right here, supporting the man, you know?

B (54:43)

Right?

C (54:43)

And I was like, listen, let me tell you something. I know her. I saw her in that prison. I saw her level of excellence and integrity in a dark place that. That she made a sandwich right? With perfection, even in the middle of a storm. This is who showed up. So you can't tell me anything about what she believes in and that I'm gonna stand on that. And if I'm wrong, I'm okay with being wrong. But I saw her whenever there were no lights, when there were no cameras. Make a sandwich for some women and give it and say, would you like this? That's the Julie that I know. So you're not gonna be able to come at me about who somebody supports and all that stuff. That's. That's because you know what?

B (55:26)

We live together, right? We did everything together. And you know what? Those things, they never were ever a topic of conversation for us.

C (55:35)

No one. No one is worried. No.

B (55:37)

No one cares.

C (55:38)

Y' all are more worried about it than we are, than we were, Right?

B (55:41)

Because it's. It. I think that was the beauty of it. It was the beauty of being able to come from different places, different cultural backgrounds, different, like I said, religious backgrounds, political backgrounds, whatever it was. And none of it mattered, right? We were worried about how we were going to cook on a radiator or how we was going to stay cool or how we were going to salvage some ice from the ice machine, right? That was what we were worried about. And then we were worried about, are you girls good? How's your mama doing?

C (56:13)

Right?

B (56:15)

You made it back. You made it through that. That's what we were worried about. None of that other stuff mattered. And really and truly, if we could take that same mentality, and I hope that we can do that, our little. Just our little piece of the world that we can. We can bring that with us to say that other stuff doesn't matter. This is what mattered. This is matters that we showed up for each other. It might have been a sandwich. It might have been walking a track together. It might have been. Whatever it was was we showed up, right? And that's really what it's about. I love you.

C (56:51)

I love you too.

B (56:51)

Thank you so much for being here today. It won't be the last time, okay?

C (56:55)

I'm always here. You know that.

B (56:58)

And until next time, thank you so much for everybody for tuning in today. And find us wherever you get your podcast. Chrisley Confessions 2.0 hi, I'm Adam Rippon.

D (57:10)

And this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I Unclear, but if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations. You found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

B (57:48)

What do you think makes the perfect snack? Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient. Could you be more specific when it's cravenient? Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the street at am pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM?

C (58:04)

I'm seeing a pattern here.

B (58:05)

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

C (58:07)

Crave, which is anything from am pm.

B (58:09)

What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's Cravenience ampm. Too much good stuff.