B (2:35)

Yeah, well, one of the things I do, I open up the Avatar and do something I've never done before. I've spoken about the gods. And when I say gods, there's only one God, but there are. Are the Bible speaks of false gods and they said behind that are spirits or principalities. And the Hebrew word is Shadim, which. And then it was translated into the Greek in the New Testament became the word daimonia. We get the word demon from it. So. So behind this is a whole other realm. And I was asked to go to, to India. And so what I, what I share in the Avatar at the beginning to set it up is it's not just about like seeing like talking about these things, but, but the experiences I had when I went to India. India is a land of 30,000 gods that are worshiped. 30,000. And so, you know, there's going to be spiritual activity going on. And it really. Tim, it was the most. I never saw so much warfare in my life. I mean, when people talk about spiritual warfare, I have never seen that the power of God and the power of the enemy at war as I did when I went to India. Not just in the spiritual realm, but even in the physical realm. You know, by the second day, me and my team were almost killed. By the second day, you know, there were radical Hindu movement that were. That were actually killing Christians. And I was being pursued these the entire time. I mean, it was the hand of God, but so much happened. But at that, but at the end of the journey, I'm standing in front of thousands of Indians at night. And it is. I decide before sharing the word, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take out the shofar, the trumpet, the sound of God's power and sound it. And I do. And some we don't even know what happens after that. It was like a wave comes back at us. I can only say. I could put it this way, Tim. If you imagine being at an exorcism, but multiply it by thousands of times and it was like a mass exorcism. People are screaming like blood curdling, screaming as if, as if spirits are departed. And the thing is that, you know, it says in the Bible, when you're in battle, it says, sound the trumpet and God will hear and your enemy will, you know, your Enemies, you're going to defeat your enemy, they're going to flee. Well, for ages, Jewish people have been sounding the shofar, using it as a spiritual thing against the enemy. But also when they performed exorcism in ancient times, they used the shofar. But, you know, the people in India are not reading Jewish history and they're not reading the Bible. And yet when it happened, that. That happened. So. So it was like it showed me how real this whole realm is of the spirits of the gods. And after that, I was able to give a call to salvation. And we saw about 70,000 Indians pray to receive Jesus as their Lord. But the first thing we had to do was kind of clear the air. So it told me how real this is. And I've seen this in every. Virtually every nation that I've gone to. After India, I was asked to go to Cuba, and Fidel Castro was part of it. And I saw amazing things happen there as well.

A (5:09)

Well, you know, you talk about India and all the panoply of gods. I mean, the multiplicity of gods was not just in ancient Greece and Rome. It is still today in places like India. And you think of New York that at one time had three crosses on downtown buildings and just in recent years has put up a Hindu God or goddess. But we've seen this even in the most recent Olympics. How did this manifestation of gods occur even in the last Olympics?

B (5:32)

Yeah, one thing I saw is that. That everywhere. Listen, it's what the Bible says, you know, because we're dealing with spirits. They don't die and they put on other masks, you know, but they don't. But, you know, the ancient is still here. And what we saw in the Olympics is actually something that. That Jesus spoke about. Jesus gave the parable. He said that when a man is delivered of the spirit, he said, he says, but then the spirit comes back, finds him empty, like he's not filled with God, and so brings seven other spirits and he gets repossessed. Well, goes, okay, that's about a person, but not just a person. He said, so shall be with this generation. And the principle is this. When the gospel came into the world, it drove out the spirit, drove out the gods, drove out the spirit, was like a mass exorcism happening in the West, Rome and onward. Well, the thing is this, you know, the warning is if any nation or culture or civilization that has been so delivered and has known of God, but now empties itself of God, what was cast out of it is going to come back into it. And that's what we've been watching in America since then, since we said, okay, we can get rid of God here, take him out of the schools. You know, the house is not going to stay empty. You know, it's. And so that's why we're watching really, a paganization of America, because these are ancient entities and they're at work. And that's what, in Return of the gods, I, I, you know, you could actually identify them. And it's amazing. Everything from abortion to gender transition, that's part of the ancient gods, you know. But the thing is that, so the Olympics, this past Olympics, you know, had something that shocked a lot of people. It was probably the, the, the greatest act of blasphemy, the most widespread act of blasphemy ever, and that is in the opening ceremony. I don't know if you, I don't know if you caught it, Tim, but they had, they had basically a recreation of the Last Supper. They tried to deny, but it was the Last Supper. And it, but instead of Jesus, they had basically a woman as Jesus and they had men dressed as women gyrating around the stage. But then where the elements representing Jesus, the bread and the wine would be. Instead of. They have a platter, it looks like a platter of food, but they take off it, they take off the top and it's a man addressed as an ancient pagan God, replacing Jesus. It was the God Dionysus and replacing Jesus. So now listen, when Jesus came into the, when the gospel came in the world, it. Jesus drove out Dionysus and drove out the, all those gods. But now it was like the culture saying, now we are replacing, we are driving out Jesus and replacing him with a pagan God. I mean, it was actually like a prophetic manifestation. The reverse of what happened when the gospel came is we're watching a civilization turn back. And the thing is that, that, you know, we, it's already happened because there's a warning. There was a guy, one guy who actually did what they did at the Olympics. He actually exchanged Jesus for Dionysus. His name was Frederick Nietzsche. He's the one who wrote God is dead. And he actually, actually, he said, get rid of Jesus. Get rid of Christianity. And he actually venerated the God Dionysus. He wrote about it. Now, the God Dionysus, according to the mythology, would drive his, his followers to insanity. Well, Nietzsche goes insane and at the end of his writing career, instead of signing his name Frederick Nietzsche, he signs his name Dionysus as if he was taken over. And the thing Is his writings were picked up by a guy named Adolf Hitler. He read Nietzsche's writings, and Nietzsche became the philosopher of the Third Reich and the rise of Nazism. And that's what it, what it, what it brought us was, was millions of people dead. And that's how dangerous it is. What's happening now when you touch. For a Christian civilization to turn away from God is a dangerous thing. It always ends up bad.

A (9:11)

It always ends up bad. And you know, even the claim that the left or the secularists want to espouse humanism, it reminds me of what Satan offered in the garden to humanity. You can be like God, but really exchanging the true and living God for our own godship is actually inviting in other false gods. One of the most explosive mysteries, though, in the Avatar concerns the God kings and goddess queens who served as avatars of the pagan world. So tell us, what is that all about? What is an avatar? We've heard of movies and seen Hollywood's take on it, but from a spiritual perspective and even a biblical perspective, what is an avatar and how do people fulfill that role?

B (9:52)

Yeah, an avatar, actually it's an Indian word and it means a descent. And it's really speaking about that the gods were. Wasn't just about gods. It was that there were people who in a sense, either channeled the gods or the gods manifest as people or who are their instruments. And, and that's a. That is, throughout the pagan world, it wasn't just about gods. You know, they believed whether it was the priest, high priest, or the priestess, that it would become an incarnation of the, of the God or goddess. The pharaoh of Egypt was seen as a God or a, you know, and that's why they look so strange. They got all those, those attachments of the gods. The king of Babylon, same thing. So it wasn't just the gods. And by the way, if the, you know, think about it, if behind the gods are spirits, the Bible says spirits seek to possess. And so, you know, when they possess, the person becomes in a sense like an avatar, you know, a representation, a vehicle of that, you know. Well, the thing is that it makes sense also because if the spirits, if you can rule the king, you can rule the kingdom. And so the, the thing now is this, now to bring it home to America. America has already. We've been watching it turn away from God. We've been watching God being driven out. We've been watching all these pagan things, things come in and really principalities. So could we have reached the point where there actually are avatars? And by the way, it's not about people. You know, we got to pray for all people. They don't know what they're doing, but that there can actually be avatars, people who are being used by these. These forces. And. And the thing is that. Could it even affect the political realm? Because, again, if you can rule the king, you can rule the kingdom. Well, here's the thing. There. There is in. In the concept of the avatar, the belief is that there's a particular house that is conducive or gives birth to avatars, and that is the house called the brahmins. The house of the brahmins are the priests of the Hindu goddesses. Gods. Well, the. The house from the house of brahmin, someone is born. And the name of that person is Kamala Harris. She's born of the house of the avatars. Number one. Even her family name, her Hindu family name, Gopalin, is named after a Hindu avatar. Now, the thing is that the amazing thing is we won't have time to get into the detail, but the amazing thing is that her whole life is following this pattern of this actually a goddess. In fact, the reason why she's called Kamala is because she's named after. That's an ancient Hindu goddess named Kamala. And if you missed that, her middle name, Devi, means the goddess. So it's Kamala, the goddess, literally. And so. And her whole life has followed the mystery of this goddess. I mean, I won't go into it, but it's amazing. But. But the other thing is that. That, you know, there is a day on the Hindu calendar where they especially worship this goddess Kamala. It's called sharad purnima. And so they worship. They have idols, all that. Well, on the day of when India was worshiping this goddess on sharad purnima, the goddess Kamala, that's the day that Kamala Harris was born. Born on the day of the goddess Kamala. Not only that, she couldn't control that. Not only that, I. On that day, they celebrate how the goddess comes into the world. So she. Or she comes into the world, they open up their house for her to come, and she's come into the world. And on that day, they also celebrate the birth of the goddess. They actually tell the story of the birth of God at the day that Kamala Harris is born, I mean, and named Kamala. And so when she's come in and named Kamala, all around the world, people are chanting Kamala, Kamala as she is born, I mean, and she has no Idea. It's not about her. And. And. And here's another. Let me talk about just something about the image, and that is that, you know, in ancient times, they would have, you know, the. The images of the avatar, the pharaoh would be a. They would come, they take the. The man or the woman, and they con. Merge it with the. The image of the God or goddess. And you see that in the. In all the Egyptian, you know, wall paintings. Well, the amazing thing is that image appears not on. On an Egyptian wall, but on the Internet just before Kamala Harris is going to begin to rise to the White House. And the thing is that it was put up by her own family. And what was it? It was an image of her, and they merged her with a Hindu goddess, literally. I mean, and what's the sign of the avatar mean? You know, the thing is that America was made to be a nation under God. It was to be ruled by God, led by God, governed by God. Well, if she had won, that's how close we came. If she had won, we would be ruled by one whose name is Goddess. One nation under goddess. You know, so that. And that represented the whole agenda of all this. So that's how close we came, and that's how real this is.

A (14:19)

One other thing I thought was just fascinating when you were talking about Kamala Harris in your book is you said that goddess had a knack for having laughter. That was just uncanny. I mean, just would laugh at things that weren't funny and would laugh at death. And you told a story about a man who was wrongly prosecuted and convicted, one of the few prosecutions that Kamala Harris herself actually accomplished while she was attorney general of California. And he said even at his trial, when he was. The conviction was read, she just started cackling and laughing. He said it was the most unusual thing that haunted him for years. And yet that, too, is a manifestation of that goddess's characteristics.

B (15:01)

Yeah, yeah. It was called this concept in Hinduism, the laughing goddess. And. And so. And the laughing goddess laughs at the wrong times. Laughs when she's bringing destruction. And by the way, the goddess Kamala was joined to a king. She was numbered. She was the number two ruler in the land. And she's joined to a king who's Vishnu, who's. You know. You know how they called. They called Joe Biden Sleepy Joe. Sleepy Joe. Vishnu was called the sleeping God. I mean, so the laughing goddess. The sleeping God. I mean, it's amazing. And. And to take this even further, you know, that's the day of her birth. Now, what about Donald Trump and what about the day of his birth? Could there be anything to it? Well, the amazing thing is that when Donald Trump was born, it wasn't a pagan holiday. It was actually a biblical holiday. It was actually he was born on Friday. That's the, that's the Sabbath. That's the biblical Sabbath. And on the biblical Sabbath, there's always a scripture that is appointed for that particular week, that particular Sabbath, from ancient, from ages past. So that means there was a scripture to Donald Trump's birth. So what was it? It was, you know, the script, it was read all over the world. It was God calling forth a vessel, an instrument to be used by God. And that instrument was the trumpet or the Trump. So literally all over the world they are saying the talk about the coming forth of the Trump and the Trump comes forth and I won't go into the detail because we don't have time, but in the book it also the avatar is that, that this mystery of the trumpet is it really, it gives everything about Trump as well, even the time he becomes president. I mean, it' amazing and how he was used. And actually, remember I told you the beginning, I sounded the trumpet and the spirits fled when the, and the Bible says that, you know, that has that scripture, when you sound the trumpet, the enemy will flee. Well, that scripture was also read on Donald Trump's birth. I mean, you know, and he's been used to drive back this agenda like the trumpet of God, of the gods, you know, the agenda of abortion, the agenda of gender confusion and even, even the assassination of attempt. There, there's a whole, there's, there's a, a mystery there. Tom, Tom, I'll give you a quick thing on that. If, you know, when he was almost killed, Donald Trump. Well, you know, there's actually a mystery there and that is that that when someone was going to be anointed in the Bible to, to serve God's purposes, like the priest, there was a specific ritual they had had to happen and it involved blood. Listen, the, the one who's being going to be used of God. The blood has to touch his ear. So the blood touches the ear, has to touch, according to the Bible, has to touch the right ear. So it touches his right ear, has to touch the tip. That's why it touched the tip of his right ear. Then it has to touch his hand. Next, first thing that Trump does is he reaches his hand, the blood touches his hand, has to be the right hand. It's his right hand, has to be the right thumb. It's his right thumb. Then it's got to go to his feet. Now, the amazing thing is that, that for this to happen, the. The man being anointed, his feet, his shoes have to be removed for that to happen. So as he pushed, he's pushed down, his shoes are removed. And actually, Donald Trump, even I just found this out about. I've never shared this anywhere. I just found this out, like two weeks ago that he actually said that his. His shoes were filled with blood. Well, that's the next part is his. His feet are touched with the blood. And, and then there are seven days from. From that of the anointing. So on the seventh day, from the blood touching the ear, the man is given the vestments of the office. Well, if you count seven Hebrew biblical days, and that's sundown to sundown. So that's first Saturday and then Saturday night to Sunday night. The seventh day begins. Thursday night, July 18th. Anything happen Thursday night, July 18th, Trump is standing in front of the world and he has that patch on his ear, and he receives the nomination to become President of the United States. The anointing is complete.

A (18:28)

Wow. You know what, Jonathan? Again, all the connections that you make, what do you see? I mean, this is going to get into a little bit of foretelling or at least discerning.

B (18:37)

What.

A (18:37)

What do you see as the future for America? America had emptied itself, and that doesn't mean every American. Obviously, you and I are following the Lord faithfully, We pray. But as a culture, we have emptied our nation of God. We've had all these false gods rush in. So where do you see America? What does the future hold for us, both as a warning and as a statement of hope?

B (18:58)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the Avatar really leads up to that because this is the prophetic. We're at a prophetic moment, and that is this. What did Jehu represent for Israel? Jehu was a window. God. You know, the nation was falling away from God drastically, but God raised up Jehu not because it was about Jehu, but it was about God to make a window of time where the nation had to return to God to turn back to God. We are in this window right now. We may not have it again. We're in this window. God kind of rolled back that whole agenda, gave us a break, gave us a reprieve. We dodged a bullet, you know, like he did. And the thing is that. But the whole point is, it's not if we change a government, but we don't change people's hearts. The unchanged hearts are Going to change the government back. And, you know, if we drive out the, you know, in a sense, the agenda of the gods, but we don't replace it with God's presence, then the gods are, the spirits are coming back. So we need more that we need revival. We are, we can go either way right now. It's either. If we don't have revival, the only thing that can save America is revival. If we are turning back to God, if we don't have that, then America is going to resume its fall from God. It'll even, even be more so. But we've got a window now. So we've got to pray for revival as never before. We got to work for revival. We've got to talk and we got to choose revival to actually live in revival. If we do that, revival will begin. That is our hope.

A (20:09)

Well, obviously even some of the events of this year, 2025, as we're talking with the Charlie Kirk assassination, it's as if we are at a turning point and not just politically, but spiritually. Well, Jonathan, obviously we've just gotten a taste of some of the mysteries that you have revealed in the Avatar. Where can our audience, our viewers, find a copy of this and get it for themselves and to share with family and friends?

B (20:30)

Yeah, the full cover will look like this. It's literally everywhere, every bookstore, but it's on. If you go to Amazon right now or any place online, you'll see it. Don't confuse it with a movie. The movie's not going to save anybody. But I pray people get it for their, not just for yourself. Get it for people who need to be awakened, need to know what's happening, need to be ready or need to be saved. But that's what it's about.

A (20:49)

Well, before I let you go, we are actually in the midst of recording a series addressing the end times. This is specifically God's revealed plan for the rapture. And the tribulation is covered in the book of Revelation. So as a Messianic Jew, I really want to pick your brain for a moment, Jonathan, to understand or for you to describe what is called in scripture the time of Jacob's trouble, or what we think of as the Great Tribulation. So what is the purpose and outcome of that three and a half year period, horrific period in God's prophetic plan?

B (21:17)

Well, you know, really from the beginning, people don't realize this. From the early part of the Bible, from the Torah, Moses himself writes about this. He writes about great distress at the end for the Jewish people. He talks about them returning to the land, and he talks about this great distress, you know, but at that point, ultimately, to be calling, to be turning to God, this, this theme continues throughout the Bible. And then when you read in Daniel, when he writes about the week or the seventh seven, and then he says in the middle of the week, well, that seven divided by two comes out to three and a half. And then when you look in Revelation, you see it, I mean, again and again, the months add up to three and a half years. The, the, the, the, you know, the, everything adds up. The years add up to that. You know, all that, the days add up to that. Well, the thing is that this is the final period for Israel and ultimately the world before Messiah comes. And it's ultimately, you know, on one hand, evil is going to come to its fruition with the Antichrist, but then in the end, it's going to lead to good. I mean, because that's, it's going to lead to the coming. But that's the point, you know, when you look at right now, what's. What we've been watching happening in the world, we're seeing another outbreak of hatred for Israel, hatred for the Jewish people. It never dies because it's. Because the enemy doesn't die, you know, and it's his war again in Revelation, it's the dragon warring against the woman. And it's. We're watching it, and we're watching the nation. You can actually envision, you know, if anybody had any doubt, you can envision all the nations coming against Israel. I mean, because there's no other nation where there's been this hatred all over the world, you know, so, so we're watching it move to that day. So there will be a day when in the great tribulation, the Bible says all nations will come against Israel. That is when Israel calls out and says what Jesus said, they have to say, baruch haba b' shem adonai. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, then he will come. And that's when the kingdom comes and all that. So this is really, it's kind of like the, when you watch a movie, you know, like which. What's the most exciting part, the last 15 minutes? Well, the Tribulation is kind of like the last 15 minutes of the movie before the Second Coming. And so it's going to, it's going to be evil will go worse, but also those who stand for God shine even brighter.

A (23:17)

Amen. And when Israel comes to the end of itself at the conclusion of that three and a half years. And the Lord said, if it lasted any longer, no life would be left. But they will come to the end themselves. As you said, cry out for him, recognize him, and then, as Paul reveals in Romans, all Israel, all those who are remaining after that terrific period of time, will be saved. Well, Jonathan, obviously we here at Lamb and Lion Ministries have a deep and an abiding commitment to, to what Ezekiel 36 calls the house of Israel. Some people say, well, is that the government of Israel, the nation of Israel? I'll just use scriptural terms, the house of Israel. And simply put, because we love the Jewish people, or I should say this, we love the Jewish people because God chose the Jewish people and loves the Jewish people. But how can we express our Christlike love for the Jewish people and for individual Jews? How best can we do that?

B (24:07)

That is so important. I mean, and it's, so. It becomes more important now, you know, in the last days, there's going to be a war of the enemy against Christians, you know, as we're watching, and against the Jewish people, Israel. So we got to stand together, number one. We're like, you know, the believer in Messiah who, you know, if you're not Jewish by birth, you're Jewish by spiritual rebirth. And you are Ruth to Naomi. Well, what did Ruth do? Ruth brought the blessings that Boaz the Redeemer gave her and blessed Ruth with it. You know, bless Naomi with it. Well, you've been blessed with the Redeemer who married you. He's your Boaz. Bless back then, number one, stand with Israel. And again, as you just said, it does. You know, it's not about government. It's simply Israel. And it doesn't, it doesn't mean you agree with everything any more than you agree with the American government, but you stand with Israel. You are, it's through Israel that you were born again through. You were saying all the blessings came through Israel. And your, your king is the king of Israel, you know, so stand with them. Stick, speak, you know, speak up for them. If you're on the web, you know, answer these things. Don't, don't, don't let it go, you know, stand for them, you know, and then. And pray for their salvation. Bless them whenever you can. Bless with, you know, a compassion for Israel or bless with, you know, salvation for the gospel for Israel. Do so, do so. But, you know, we always kind of say, like, you know, you know, when, when, when Hitler was around and they persecuted the Jews, what would we do? You know, what would, what Would believers do you know, the. The. The righteous were hiding Jews, but that they were doing it at risk of their own life and the risk of their family's life? What would you do? Well, listen, now's your time, you know, this is the time. This is when. So the least we can do is stand up for Israel, stand up for the Jewish people because of Jesus. When you. You love Jesus, you can't love the King of the Jews and not love the Jews of the King. You got to love the nation. It's your nation too.

A (25:46)

Well, you know what? You just made a beautiful application that I will build on. And that is Ruth, who was a Gentile, who in turn blessed Naomi. Naomi had given up hope. She said, call me Mara, I'm bitter. And yet, when Ruth met the kinsman Redeemer and her life was redeemed, then through the offspring a son, Naomi was also able to be restored. So when Naomi, the Jewish nation recognizes the son, not just the son of Boaz and Ruth, then they too will be restored. Well, Jonathan, the church as described in the New Testament was originally made up obviously of only Jewish followers of Yeshua Jesus. And over the past 2,000 years, the church has become predominately Gentile. But we praise the Lord that many Jews are coming to faith in our Jewish Messiah. We've been told anecdotally that there are more Jewish followers of Christ today than probably the last 20 centuries combined, perhaps. So what do you see as signs that indicate we are living in the season of his return?

B (26:47)

Well, yeah, I'm kind of part of that because I know I'm a Jewish person who got saved, you know, you know, and, and I. And I, you know, I'm. I've also traveled in the circles of messianic movement and all that. So I see that. And in Israel, as you were just in Israel. So, yeah, there is. There has never been. Since the Book of Acts and since that early beginning, we have not seen so many Jewish people come to Messiah, come to Jesus as Jewish people and saying, hey, he is the Jewish Messiah. And the thing is that. So it is happening. And so it really is a sign because that, you know, people look at Israel coming back, and that's absolutely a sign. But it's not just Israel coming back, coming back as a state. They ultimately have to come back to him. So when the blossoming of the olive tree has got to deal with people coming back to God, you know, blossoming of God. So the fact is Israel's back, but since Israel came back, and particularly since Israel came back to Jerusalem. That really marks that 1967 marks the beginning of the modern Messianic revival. And it makes sense. They come back to the holy city and more Jewish people are coming back to their king. And so it has to be, you know, and it is a sign that the, you know, it's near, we are nearer. Because this is exactly what he said. He said he's not coming back again until his own people come back to him.

A (27:52)

Well, praise the Lord. I couldn't agree more, Jonathan. My heart thrills just when we are dialoguing because we see the same signs, but you see them with just a discernment that is so gifted. And I'll give credit to God himself and the Holy Spirit for that giftedness. Well, I want to thank you again for joining me today. I always look forward to your next book projects and the insights that they will reveal. So I'm sure you're already working on one and. And we'll look forward to getting a copy of that when it's released.

B (28:18)

Amen. Thank you, Tim. It's always a joy.

A (28:20)

Always a joy. Shalom. Shalom, my friend, and Godspeed.