Unknown (15:23)

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Ali Yost (16:23)

Hey, friends. I'm Sharon McMahon, host of here's where it gets interesting. Each week I speak with authors, experts, and thought leaders on everything from American history and democracy to how to be a better person on the Internet. And don't miss my extremely popular docu series, which educate you on things you never learned in history class. Follow and listen to here's where it gets interesting on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. So I think it'd be really good for us to kind of COVID this part of the story. It is in Genesis, so I'd love for us to all open our Bibles right now and we're just going to read this part where they're running out of the city and Lot's wife turns to stone. Let's just read the story. The translation that I do read, if you guys are not familiar yet, is nlt. So that is the translation that I will be reading today. Okay. Yeah, let's actually start in Genesis 18:16. So a little bit of context before we start reading is Lot, who is a righteous man living in the wicked city of Sodom, was warned by angels to fight flee with his wife and daughters before God destroyed the city. Whoa, this is kind of crazy. This might even be the verse that people were trying to bring up when all of these fires and stuff were happening in Los Angeles, because Los Angeles is probably considered a majority of just a wicked city. And this is an example of. Because of that, the Lord did destroy the city. That is so ironic, actually, that that is what we're talking about today. I didn't even put those two pieces together. But yeah, so Lot is a. Is a righteous man. He's good with God. And so because of that, God had enough mercy for him and his family to send angels to be like, hey, you gotta leave, because God is actually going to destroy this city because of how wicked it is. Okay, so it says, Abraham intercedes for Sodom. Then the men got up from their meal and looked out towards Sodom as they left. Abraham went with them and sent them on their way. Should I hide my plan from Abraham? The Lord asked for Abraham will certainly become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed through him. I have singled him out so that he will direct his sons and their families to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right. And just then, I will do for Abraham all that I have promised. So the Lord told Abraham, I have heard a great outcry for Sodom and Gomorrah because their sin is so flagrant. I am going down to see if their actions are as wicked as I have heard. If not, I want to know. The other men turned and headed toward Sodom. But the Lord remained with Abraham. Abraham approached him and said, will you sweep away both the righteous and the wicked? Suppose you find 50 righteous people living there in the city. Will you still sweep it away and not spare it for their sakes? Surely you wouldn't do such a thing, destroying the righteous along with the wicked? Why, you would be treating the righteous and the wicked exactly the same. Surely you wouldn't do that? Should not the judge of all the earth do what is right? And the Lord replied, If I find 50 righteous people in Sodom, I will spare the entire city for their sake. Then Abraham spoke again, since I have begun, let me speak further to my Lord, even though I am but dust and ashes. Suppose there are only 45 righteous people rather than 50. Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five? And the Lord said, I will not destroy it If I find 45 righteous people there. Then Abraham pressed his request further. Suppose there are only 40. And the Lord replied, I will not destroy it for the sake of the 40. Please don't be angry, my Lord. Abraham pleaded, let me speak. Suppose only 30 righteous people are found. And the Lord replied, I will not destroy it if I find 30. Then Abraham said, since I have dared to speak to the Lord, let me continue. Suppose there are only 20. And the Lord replied, then I will not destroy it for the sake of the 20. Finally Abraham said, lord, please don't be angry with me if I speak one more time. Suppose only 10 are found there. And the Lord replied, then I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten. When the Lord had finished his conversation with Abraham, he went on his way. And Abraham returned to his tent. So now we're starting at Genesis 19. That evening, the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. My lords, he said, come to my home to wash your feet and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again. Oh, no, they replied. We'll just spend the night out here in the city square. But Lot insisted, so at least they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast. And they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them. Uh. Ew. So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. Please, my brothers, he begged, don't do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you and you can do with them as you wish. But please leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection. Stand back. They shouted. This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge. We'll treat you far worse than those other men. And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house. So they gave up trying to get inside. Meanwhile, the angels questioned Lot. Do you have any other relatives here in the city? They asked. Get them out of this place, your sons in law, sons, daughters, or anyone else, for we are about to destroy this city completely. The outcry against this place is so great, it has reached the Lord and he has sent us to destroy it. So Lot rushed out to tell his daughter's quick, get out of the city. The Lord is about to destroy it. But the young men thought he was only joking. At dawn the next morning, the angels became insistent. Hurry, they said to Lot. Take your wife and your two daughters who are here. Get out right now or you will be swept away in the destruction of the city. When Lot still hesitated, the angels seized his hand and the hands of his wife and two daughters and rushed them to safety outside of the city, for the Lord was merciful. When they were safely outside of the city, one of the angels ordered, run for your lives and don't look back or stop anywhere in the valley. Escape to the mountains or you will be swept away. Oh no, my lord, Lot begged. You have been so gracious to me and saved my life. You have shown such a great kindness. But I cannot go to the mountains. Disaster would catch up to me there and I would soon die. So there is a small village nearby. Please let me go there instead. Don't you see how small it is? Then my life will be saved. Alright, the angel said. I will grant your request. I will not destroy the little village, but hurry, escape to it, for I can do nothing until you arrive there. This explains why that village was known as Zoar, which means little place Lot reached the village just as the sun was rising over the horizon. Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. He utterly destroyed them along with other cities and villages of the plain, wiping out all the people and every bit of vegetation. But Lot's wife looked back as she was following behind him, and she turned into a pillar of salt. Abraham got up early that morning and hurried out to the place where he had stood in the Lord's presence. He looked out across the plain toward Sodom and Gomorrah and watched as columns of smoke rose from the cities like smoke from a furnace. But God had listened to Abraham's request and kept Lot safe, removing him from the disaster that engulfed the cities on the plain. All right, y'all, we're going to stop right there at Genesis 19:29. That's where we will stop. Listen, y'all, I was not expecting that part about those weird men wanting to have. Okay, that caught me off guard. But people have been twisted since day one, haven't we? There's just been wickedness in us since the beginning anyway. Well, first and foremost, these are my takeaways. Obviously, the context, right? So Lot was a righteous man living in this wicked city. And because of the way that Abraham was pleading the Lord to please spare all of the righteous people in this city, to not destroy them along with the wicked people. And I think with that back and forth between the Lord and Abraham, it was so sweet. Kind of reminded me of like a toddler with their parent, where it's like one question after another after another. And it was the Lord's patience and kindness through that conversation with Abraham. But I think ultimately what Abraham was trying to say is, like, even if there aren't a lot of righteous people, like, maybe there's only a few, God, would you spare them because of those righteous people? And it was the same answer every time, right? That God was like, yes, of course I would. Yes, yes, yes. So the Lord did spare Lot and his family to the ones that were willing to go. You know, the command, though, in this situation was as they were fleeing, the angels made it very clear and explicitly told them not to look back at Sodom. So don't turn back, don't stop anywhere. You need to keep going. And I think in a scenario like this where if an angel is going to tell you something like that, and I would imagine they put a lot of emphasis on it, it sounded like they did. We're just going to do that, right? But the Consequences of this, though, is that despite the warning, Lot's wife looked back and as a result, was transformed into a pillar of salt. So there are consequences to us not doing what the Lord advises us to do. And I think this is just another reminder that anything that the Lord advises us not to do or to do is probably for our good. It's not out of anything else other than love. The thing that I love about God's heart is he always gives us an opportunity to make the right decision. He's never quick to anger. He's never quick to, like, wrath or any of those things. He's actually quicker to giving us grace and always giving us an opportunity to make the right decision. He doesn't want to see us feel those consequences, you know, so it's actually out of his love that he warns us in these things, but he still gives us the opportunity. That's when our free will comes into play, right, where we can still make the decision or not. And so it was a decision for Lot's wife where she could have either continued to look forward or look back. And so because of her free will, she did it and was turned to a pillar of stone. So I think that this story specifically emphasizes the importance of complete obedience to God's command. Complete obedience, because they were being obedient in running away. They were doing that. Lot's wife was doing that, but she wasn't doing it in complete obedience, because complete obedience would have been, don't look back and keep going. Right? She was going, but she did look back, which is not giving total obedience to the Lord. Right? Because He. He warned them of both of those things. And so I think sometimes, too, like, we can justify our good works or we can justify maybe the things that we're not totally obedient in. The Lord. Oh, wait, this is good. I think this could also be its own little, like, rabbit trail. But I think sometimes, too, this is an example of, like, obedience and complete obedience to the Lord, where there might be things that we definitely honor him in and were obedient in, but then other aspects of our life were not. But we try to justify them by saying, oh, well, but I do all these other things. Like Lot's wife, maybe in that situation, to try to justify herself would have been like, yeah, but I was running away like the Lord told me. But she wasn't doing it in complete obedience. So sometimes the partial obedience doesn't outweigh the things that you're not doing in obedience. It's complete obedience. Wow.

Unknown (29:09)

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Ali Yost (29:10)

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Sharon McMahon (29:13)

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Ali Yost (29:20)

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Sharon McMahon (29:26)

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Ali Yost (29:26)

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Unknown (29:30)

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Unknown (29:38)

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Ali Yost (30:37)

Was sitting in the gate of Sodom. There was a steady progression of compromise in Lot's life. He went from looking towards Sodom to pitching his tent towards Sodom, to living in Sodom and losing everything when Sodom was attacked. Now back at the infamous city, Lot sat at the gate of Sodom, indicating he was a civic leader. The gate area of an ancient city was sort of a town hall where the important men of the city judged disputes and supervised those who entered and left the city. Lot himself was a righteous man who was grieved by the sin he saw around him, but because of his deep compromise, few of his family and none of his friends were saved. Compromise destroyed his testimony. So this is the part when those men came knocking at the door. This is just a little more commentation about that part. So the men of the city, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. Okay, there was that part of scripture. And so this actually shows that the entire city was given over to this violence and immorality and that this behavior wasn't unusual but accepted among the men of Sodom. So now the part where Lot was pleading them to go, shutting the door and Saying, please, just leave, as they were coming to break down the door. So this was a difficult argument for Lot to make. He and the men of Sodom had a completely different standard for deciding what was wicked and what was not. The men of Sodom thought they were pursuing pleasure and did not care that Lot thought it was wicked. This is kind of a fun clarity moment. The angels were not all knowing. Like, they didn't know everything. Knowing the number and location of the members of Lot's family was something that spiritual beings could easily observe. But at this point, even these angels did not know it. Apart from Lot's answer. Okay, this is the part I really wanted to get to, so. But his wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt because she looked back behind after the angels had specifically, specifically warned, warned, do not look behind you. Her looking back likely showed a love for Sodom and regret for its destruction. Let me read that again. That was good. So the reasoning for this is just us kind of putting the pieces together here. But her looking back likely showed a love for Sodom and regret for its destruction. The word looked back has the. The connotation of looking intently. It might possibly be rendered lagged back or maybe even returned back. In referring to the end times, Jesus said something interesting in Luke 17:32. Remember Lot's wife. In other words, as we see the end of the age, no Christian should have a heart like Lot's wife. We should not have a heart that longs for a corrupt and passing world. Oh, my gosh. We should not have a heart that will, in some sense, regret the judgment God will bring on it. We need to look forward to our deliverance, not back at a world passing away and ripe for judgment, y'all. Wait, I didn't even think about that type of pov. So this is kind of what we were saying in the beginning, right? Where you're, like, reminiscing on the good old days, y'all. Sometimes my brain wants to do that. We're like, this is me confessing. But, like, there were times in my life where I would go out and I would party and I would do this and that and the next, and I don't do any of that anymore. Okay? Cheerfully and joyfully. I don't do those things. I don't deal with hangovers. I don't deal with anxiety. The regret. Honestly, when you really think about it, I was quite miserable. Anytime I was in an environment like that, it was too loud. It Smelled bad. People were all, it's just not even fun. Okay? But sometimes your brain wants to do some weird, like, uno reverse and be like, ah, but I kind of miss it. What? What do you mean you miss it? And it's like, that just spoke to me so much, like, we should not ever miss or feel FOMO about things of the world that are just going to be judged by God and they're no good for us. And so I think that was such a cool thing that was revealed even to me just now, that I think the reason that Lot's wife was looking back was, was because a part of her heart actually liked that city, which apparently was completely wicked and gross. Like, completely wicked. There was all sorts of sin and evil and crime that was happening in that city. And a part of her was like, oh, I kind of liked it. Oh, my gosh. I think that could have been a huge reason to why she was turned into a pillar of salt, too. Was. It wasn't just simply that she was looking back like, yes, the Lord warned her, the angels warned her and said, don't do it. But also it was giving a little bit of, like, a heart reveal, like that. That a piece of her heart was revealed with the way she was like, oh, but I'll miss it. Like, that's crazy. I need a sip of my coffee, guys, really quick. It's good today. I did a good job making my coffee. It's really good. I put a vanilla creamer in it this time, and it's just yummy. It's yummy. Anyway, I got a visual. I want you guys to just envision this. Okay? So looking back also is something that can hinder our progress moving forward. And I know that because if you think of this visual of you running, okay, so imagine you're running, but you're looking back the whole time. So you're running forward. You're running this marathon, but you're looking back. First and foremost, the problem I see happening is you're not able to see where you're going. You don't know where you're going, and you're basically running blind because your eyes aren't in front of you. I'd also imagine you'd start running a little crazy and not in a straight line anymore because your head is completely turned in the wrong direction. Your balance might get more challenging if you're looking behind you. You might even trip and fall because you don't see that there's a huge rock in front of you or a stick, whatever, right? So you're running, there's so many possibilities for disaster to happen. You might not even end up running in the right direction. The next time you look forward, you're in a completely different place. You don't know where you are because you were so busy looking back, right? And then the last thing that I see wrong with this visual is behind you. Has nothing to do with where you're going if you're running in one direction. The only thing I see productive is looking in the direction of where you're going. Seeing everything behind you feels quite irrelevant. Like it's, it's also as if you were driving a car. If you're driving a car, it just makes sense to look where you're going, right? It doesn't make sense to drive your car while looking in the rear view mirror the whole time like that. That doesn't have a whole lot to do with you anymore. We just, we're going this way. So we've covered all of, you know, the consequences of looking back and why God advises us not to do it. It's not productive. And I think sometimes too, even looking back, you know you're looking back and you know you're reminiscing. Whether it's on the good old days or it's things of regret that you wish you had done differently, it probably always leaves you feeling discouraged and sad. Whether it's about your current situation or yeah, just regret in general, it's going to leave you discouraged. That's how you know you're doing a little too much of looking back. Okay, but now as we talk about reflection, what does that look like? Reflection should be encouraging. It should never leave us feeling regretful, anxious, wishful or depressed. This is the fruit of looking back. Lot's wife looked back not to reflect on how far she was coming, but she looked back in fear of what was happening or like, boohoo, I'm gonna miss it. And I think reflection should leave us encouraged because it is used as a way to look at how far we've come, right? Because God does say, hey, remember and remember this. I think God does want us to remember where we've been delivered from because it is encouraging. I think sometimes we are in our everyday, you know, obedience and doing our thing and in relationship with God and there's so many things that we could be forgetting. I think sometimes too, if we look too far in the future where we're like, ah, but I don't have this yet, God and I don't have that. This is another time where Reflection is really good. And we kind of touched on this a little bit in last week's episode of Reflecting on Where God has delivered us from and the literal blessings that we're sitting in right now. Those are great things to remember. And what's interesting is when God encourages us to remember things, it's. It's always revolved around him and not so much about us. Like, if we're going to remember and reflect, it's normally, remember how God did blank. Remember how you used to be in this type of situation, But God did blank. God showed up in blank. It's revolved around God, which I think is a really good thing to be revolved around, rather than kind of just looking at ourselves too much. You know, again, that can be in regret where you're like, gosh, I was such an idiot. I did this. I did. Like, maybe we just stop looking at ourselves so much and in reflection, it's only around the goodness of God and the faithfulness of God and just having gratitude of what he's done in our past. Right. So another visual that you can use to represent reflecting is I envisioned it, like, getting at the top of a really big mountain or hill, Like, a really tough hike. Okay. That same hill you were running up. So kind of like the last visual we got, let's say you were running up the hill, that same hill. You weren't looking back as you were running. But now that you've reached the top, is it wrong to look back at the view? Of course not. I actually know that that's what the Lord would want us to do. It's healthy to look back at how far the Lord has brought us and to even feel proud of how far you've come. Like, that's a good thing. It's also just as rewarding to be able to look back at the top of that mountain and think, wow, I really came so far. I actually didn't even realize how far this was. That's also what's so fun about Reflecting is sometimes we do forget, like, how far we've come with the Lord in assistance of God. He was our helper, provider, our strength. Right? We're not going to take credit for it, but it's like, dang, I really have come so far with God and that visual. I love. I love that visual. Like, you weren't running up this hill with your head backwards the whole time. You were, like, locked in with the Lord looking at Jesus saying, we're gonna climb this freaking mountain. God, you climb it and then you get to stand on the top with the Lord and look at like, all that you've overcome. And I think that is beautiful because that's encouraging, right? Like that in itself is also so rewarding is the view of reflection and looking at where you've come. And I think too, like, just taking it day by day with the Lord. If we take it day by day with the Lord, it makes things less stressful, it feels less heavy. We're focusing on what we can handle. Reflecting is so much sweeter. Some pieces of scripture that I found that I think would help support reflection and how it can be encouraging. It should be encouraging. Deuteronomy 32:7 reads, Remember the days of old. Consider the years of many generations. Isaiah 46:9 Remember the things I have done in the past, for I alone am God. Isaiah 43:18. Forget the former things, do not dwell on the past. So isn't that funny that in Isaiah 46 vs Isaiah 43 it kind of sounds like it's contradicting, but it's not. It's remembering the things that I have done in the past, for I alone am God, right? So that goes back to like remembering and keeping it revolved around the faithfulness and the goodness of God and what he's done in the past. Forget the former things, do not dwell on the past. There is a difference there. Do you guys hear it? Deuteronomy 8:2 reads, Remember how the Lord your God led you through the wilderness for these 40 years, humbling you and testing you to prove your character. Remember how the Lord your God led you through the wilderness. So we're not gonna dwell on the wilderness. We're not gonna think about how annoying it was, how scary it was at night, the bushes were really itchy as you were walking through the wilderness, like, whatever, right? We're not gonna remember all of the, like the things that we could dwell on about the wilderness, but we will remember how the Lord got you and led you through that wilderness. Psalm 105:5. Remember the wonders he has performed, his miracles, and the rulings he has given. Psalm 77:11, 12 reads, I will remember the deeds of the Lord. Yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago. I will consider all your works and meditate on all your mighty deeds. When we pull back from the day to day busyness of our lives, we can see so many ways that the Lord has blessed us, how he has provided for us and how he has grown us, and how he has brought us up out of the dark seasons. It is really important to remember these times as we move forward into new seasons of life. So that's. That's all I have for you guys about, you know, simple reflection versus looking back and dwelling too much on our past. And I hope that it gave you peace. I hope that it gave you clarity. I really liked this episode a lot, and I'm grateful for the Holy Spirit and His wisdom to relay it to you guys. And yeah, I think it's. We're going to reflect, especially because we're at the beginning of this year. Right? Reflection is really healthy and it's good, but we're not going to dwell on the mistakes and the things that were just awful of the past. God wants us to have fresh hope today. And he wants us to remember all the ways that he got us out of dark times, to give us hope in situations that we might be facing right now or situations that we would face in the future, that he will always show up for us. And that is something we need to always remember is just the faithfulness of God and how much he loves us and he will never forsake us or leave us. Well, I love you guys. Thanks for hanging out with me for another Friday. And can we actually do something cool this week? Guys, until I see you next Friday, can we do something cool? I want y'all to show somebody how cool Jesus is. Be like, so extra kind to someone or multiple people. And I pray that in that we also give glory to God and we give credit to the one who gives us this kindness and grace and mercy to give others. I love y'all. I'm so proud of you. And I will see you next week. Bye. Are some of y'all still listening? Okay, if you're still here, that means you're a real one, which is why I'm about to share this with you. If you've already caught up on all the episodes so far and you don't want to wait until next Friday for a new one, I have really good news for you. Subscribe to our Patreon to get early access to the episodes every week, early access to merch launches or any other exciting news, and receive personalized encouraging messages or Bible verses from us. 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