trust your gut with Angela Halili

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Christ With Coffee On Ice
Host: Ally Yost
Guest: Angela Halili
Episode: Trust Your Gut with Angela Halili
Date: July 18, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Ally Yost welcomes Angela Halili—co-host of "Girls Gone Bible" and creator of the 31-day devotional Out of the Wilderness—for a conversation marked by honesty, vulnerability, hope, and encouragement. The two friends explore what it looks like to pursue Jesus daily, discuss discernment and decision-making as Christians, and share powerful stories from their personal journeys with faith, recovery, and healing. The episode is filled with laughter, warmth, deep spiritual insight, and practical wisdom for Christian women navigating modern life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Community, Friendship & Prayer

Timestamps: 00:00–02:21

• Ally and Angela recall how praying together—even over the phone—has deepened their friendship and faith ("That was special, us praying together through Jesus." – Ally, 00:29).
• They emphasize the value of having believing friends to process faith, opportunities, and challenges ("He loves when we're in community... He loves when you and I call each other and we're like, 'Hey, can you kind of help me?'" – Angela, 16:14).

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2. Behind the Scenes of Out of the Wilderness

Timestamps: 02:21–05:19

• Angela describes the challenges and intention behind the devotional’s cover art, reflecting on aesthetics, publisher demands, and wanting the cross to take center stage ("We ended up, thank God, with a cross on it, because that's the most important part." – Angela, 03:49).
• The devotional was co-written with Ari from "Girls Gone Bible," giving readers multiple perspectives on faith. The book invites readers to substitute their own struggles into the authors’ stories, making it accessible and relatable.

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3. Discernment, Open Doors & Trusting God’s Direction

Timestamps: 06:11–14:59

• Both women discuss the tension between saying yes to opportunities and making room for God’s actual calling.
• Angela: "The door might open, but you might not be called to that door. That's what it is." (07:48)
• Ally admits to being previously burnt out by overcommitment and not practicing spiritual discernment before meeting Jesus.
• They reference scripture about God opening and closing doors (potentially Rev. 3:7), highlighting that not every open door is from Him: "I used to live a life where I believed that every open door was just God, and that's not the truth." – Ally, 09:07
• Angela underscores the critical role of the "secret place"—time alone with God—in discerning His will: "You have to spend an extended amount of time with Him in the secret place for anything to take place." (10:08)

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4. Grace in Making Mistakes & the Sovereignty of God

Timestamps: 13:18–16:14

• The conversation turns to the reality of mistakenly thinking you’re following God’s voice and the comfort in God’s ability to redirect: "Just because you heard me wrong doesn't mean I can't pivot. I'm God." – Ally, 13:19
• Angela: "He’s obsessed with cleaning up our messes. He loves it." (14:18)
• Both emphasize that faithfulness and heart posture matter more to God than flawless execution.

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5. Spiritual Practices: The Secret Place & Intimacy With Jesus

Timestamps: 18:03–29:18

• Angela details her daily practice of waking early to spend time with Jesus, calling the "secret place" (private prayer) the source of her strength and clarity ("Everything that I need, I'm going to find on my floor, on my face, by myself with Jesus." – Angela, 22:11).
• She challenges listeners to make intimacy with Jesus the primary priority—even above ministry, work, or family ("I'm never going to get to a place where I'm talking about Him more than I'm speaking to Him by myself." – Angela, 23:46).
• The two laugh about distractions ("For 10 minutes, I'm looking at rugs, and then I put my phone down and I'm like, I am so sorry." – Angela, 19:12).

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6. Knowledge vs. Encounter: Scripture, Affection & the Pharisees

Timestamps: 25:53–28:55

• Both emphasize that knowledge about God isn’t the same as love or intimacy with God.
  • "Our reflection of our love for God is based off of how much we’ve actually encountered Him." – Ally, 26:42
  • Angela references Jesus’ rebuke of the Pharisees in John 5:39–40: "You search the scriptures for eternal life, but… you won’t turn to me that you may have eternal life." (28:22)

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7. Learning to Trust Your Gut: Intuition, Emotions, and the Spirit

Timestamps: 43:50–47:02

• Angela and Ally talk about Christian discernment and the biblical basis for intuition.
• “I didn’t think intuition was a Biblical thing… but it is. It’s in the book of Job.” – Ally (44:35; cf. Job 38:36).
• They encourage listeners to examine their motives, admit when feelings can be misleading, and link godly "gut feelings" to the Holy Spirit working within.

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8. Vulnerability, Testimony & the Sovereignty of God in Recovery

Timestamps: 48:34–57:04

• Angela candidly shares about her battle and deliverance from alcohol addiction, describing a supernatural experience where the desire to drink disappeared after encountering God ("Somehow I did… I didn’t even make a decision to stop drinking… I look back, and that was the sovereign hand of God." – Angela, 53:31).
• She highlights the role of mentors and community in recovery, and how the Holy Spirit transforms from the inside out.

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9. Therapy, Healing, and the Layered Work of Jesus

Timestamps: 58:46–62:24

• Angela shares about her ongoing journey with therapy ("Love therapy. Jesus and therapy." – Angela, 59:15), emphasizing that while spiritual deliverance is real, some wounds need deeper healing and professional help: "God’s like, but you can’t cast out your father wound. Oops." (59:35)
• Both discuss how Jesus deals with the "big stuff" early and, as you mature, brings deeper issues and wounds to the surface for further healing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The door might open, but you might not be called to that door." – Angela, 07:48
• "Just because you heard me wrong doesn’t mean I can’t pivot. I’m God." – Ally, 13:19
• "He’s obsessed with cleaning up our messes. He loves it." – Angela, 14:18
• "You have to spend an extended amount of time with Him in the secret place for anything to take place." – Angela, 10:08
• "Everything that I need, I’m gonna find on my floor, on my face, by myself with Jesus." – Angela, 22:11
• "I actually can’t even love you until you love me first." – Angela, 27:36
• “I didn’t think intuition was a Biblical thing… but it is. It’s in the book of Job.” – Ally, 44:35
• "Somehow I did… I didn’t even make a decision to stop drinking… I look back, and that was the sovereign hand of God." – Angela, 53:31
• "God’s like, but you can’t cast out your father wound. Oops." – Angela, 59:35

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Segment Timestamps

| Topic/Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Praying Together & Friendship | 00:00–02:21 | | Out of the Wilderness: Devotional Origins | 02:21–05:19 | | Discernment: Saying Yes/No to Opportunities | 06:11–14:59 | | Grace, Mistakes & God’s Sovereignty | 13:18–16:14 | | The Secret Place: Spiritual Practice | 18:03–29:18 | | Bible & Encounter: Knowledge vs. Intimacy | 25:53–28:55 | | Trusting Your Gut, Godly Intuition | 43:50–47:02 | | Testimony & Recovery: Angela’s Sobriety Journey | 48:34–57:04 | | Therapy, Deeper Healing, and Maturity in Faith | 58:46–62:24 |

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Tone & Atmosphere

Friendly, honest, vulnerable, hope-filled, and deeply encouraging. Ally and Angela are both candid about struggles and mistakes, but always point back to hope, grace, and the unchanging, loving presence of Christ.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This conversation offers a transparent look into the spiritual disciplines, decision-making processes, and healing journeys of two young Christian women. From practical encouragements about prioritizing secret time with Jesus, to deeply personal stories of deliverance, and honest talk about seeking therapy, this episode is a refreshing reminder that faith is a daily, relational, and communal journey. Their friendship models what Christian sisterhood can look like—full of laughter, accountability, support, and prayer.

Action Step:
Inspired by Ally’s closing words (63:50–64:00):
"Let’s walk more like Him, talk more like Him, be more like Jesus today and just spread His love and His goodness."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Out of the Wilderness: A 31-Day Devotional by Angela Halili and Ari
  (Available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target)
• "Girls Gone Bible" Podcast

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Transcript

[A]

Do you remember the first time we prayed together on the phone? Do you remember? We were both fasting. No or no. Okay. It wasn't the first time, but remember, is that the first time we ever prayed together by ourselves? Yeah, we were both fasting. I called you.

[B]

Yeah, we started praying not that long ago.

[A]

Yeah, that was like two weeks ago.

[B]

That was the first time.

[A]

Yeah, I was freaking out. I was like, ali, why don't we do this every day?

[B]

We actually should do it, like, every.

[A]

Other day or any day.

[B]

Maybe we just voice, like, every day we get on the phone and pray. No, but it was.

[A]

It was special, us praying together through Jesus.

[B]

There's a lot of faith, you know?

[A]

Yeah. You're so powerful. So powerful.

[B]

Thanks. Okay, I'm gonna do my little intro.

[A]

Okay. Sorry.

[B]

Wait here. Grab your coffee.

[A]

Okay. Not Coffee with Christ on Ice. Nope.

[B]

We're not putting Jesus on any ice. All right.

[A]

Here.

[B]

We're just putting our coffee on ice. Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Christ with Coffee on Ice. I am your host, Ali Yost. It is a joy and honor to be here with you guys, and today is a special day. I didn't change my top.

[A]

Can I be honest? I. I'm so awkward. Why are you holding it like that? I don't know. I'm so awkward.

[B]

You're kind of tilting it. I was supposed to change my.

[A]

Do you want to go change? No.

[B]

Okay, we're just going to go with it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have Angela, you know, the coffee's more important. Go ahead. I'll just leave. Why don't you just have our coffee on ice?

[B]

We have our Christ. We do. We have our Christ.

[A]

We do have Christ Jesus. I love Jesus.

[B]

I love Jesus. And we have sweet Angela Halili here with us today. Guys, we have a guest.

[A]

Hi, C. W Coi.

[B]

Did you do it?

[A]

Did I do it?

[B]

So I. Yeah.

[A]

Christ with Coffee on Ice audience. Thanks for having me.

[B]

Thanks for coming, honey. I love you.

[A]

I love you so much, my sweet Angie.

[B]

Okay, so I wanted to plug Angie here because her and Ari. So if you guys aren't familiar, you have to be. But if you're not, I feel like we have very similar audiences where our girls.

[A]

I looked at my demographics the other day, and you are the first podcast that is, like, in sim. Like. Yeah, similar podcast.

[B]

Oh, so we're just talking to our. Our fam, right?

[A]

Yeah, this is.

[B]

Yeah, same girls.

[A]

Same. Yeah.

[B]

But Ange co hosts a podcast called Girls Gone Bible. So, yeah, she's here today, and we're excited. But Ange and Ari, who they do the pod together, came out with a devotional which is called out of the wilderness. It's a 31 day devotional and it's beautiful. I actually. I love this. I want to ask you questions about it, actually.

[A]

Please.

[B]

How did you pick?

[A]

Look how beautiful you are.

[B]

I'm obsessed with that.

[A]

I had the flu in that photo.

[B]

You did?

[A]

Yeah. I was so unwell.

[B]

Pamela, you look amazing.

[A]

Sometimes we. I really be pushing through.

[B]

Girl, you really know how to fake it. You don't look like you have the flu at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did that work with the artwork? Like, did you guys design this or did you have a vision? Like, did you have an idea of what the COVID would look like?

[A]

We went through so many. This was probably the most grueling process of all of it because we went through so many different covers. Thank you. Well, we definitely wanted it to be aesthetically pleasing in a way that people could just, like, put on a coffee table. Like, obviously minimal. Like, what. It was something we would want to put on our coffee table.

[B]

No crazy colors.

[A]

No crazy colors. But like, with books, it's so funny. The publishers wanted, like, these big pink, red, like, rainbow cut. Yeah, just like, really loud. Because the point is that, like, if somebody walks by, like, they want to pick it up. And Ari and I, they gave us so many designs, and then Ari and I would push back every time. We tried getting, like, the Sacred Heart with the crown of thorns with blood coming out, they're like, too much. We tried putting Jesus Christ crucified body on it. They said it's too much. And we're like, we're not doing this. If Jesus.

[B]

That would be eye catching, though.

[A]

Yes. They tried putting us on the COVID I said, you better take us off.

[B]

Take our faces off.

[A]

And so we ended up. We tried having the, like, Jesus's face, or at least like the back of his head. We wanted it so bad. And, yeah, we just had to obviously work with the publishers. And we ended up, thank God, with a cross on it, because that's the most important part. The cross is the reason we wrote it.

[B]

So did you guys have people, like, designing it for you?

[A]

And then they had designers. We'd had designers, and then they would, like, collaborate. And we went through so many rounds of the COVID It was like, truly the hardest part. Well.

[B]

Cause that's like the first impression. I mean, we have that saying. It's like, don't judge a book by its cover. But, like, we do.

[A]

But we do.

[B]

If I'm gonna look at a book, and it's like, I don't. It doesn't look like something I'd even really want in my home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't matter what's really in it. Which is unfortunate.

[A]

My favorite one that they didn't let us have, and I pushed so hard. It was this little photo of Jesus on a hill, but it was just Jesus sitting on a hill. And they said that. Yeah, it just wasn't the right Jesus, I guess. And I was like.

[B]

But I. Wait, what do you mean? Which one is. There's only one.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

The Jesus.

[A]

The Jesus that I chose look like Jim Caviezel. Okay. I don't know if they want it.

[B]

They're like, not the right Jesus.

[A]

No offensive. So let's, I don't know, teach their own. I have no idea. I just. I love Jesus sitting on the hill by himself.

[B]

I love that, too.

[A]

We have the cross.

[B]

Maybe for another book.

[A]

My next book that I maybe will write in 30 years.

[B]

Yeah. So how do we feel about having another book? Do we. You said in the next 30 years.

[A]

So, you know, you're like, this is your first.

[B]

This is your first. Yeah.

[A]

And it's a devotional. Right. So it's not. Yeah. And I wrote it with Ari, and it was so much fun and so beautiful and, like, I'm so proud of it. I really am. And I think it's so sweet that.

[B]

You guys did it together.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.

[A]

Two different voices with two different stories, two different perspectives on faith, and you go back and forth between them.

[B]

That's so sweet.

[A]

I think what I love about it the most, and I always say this is just like. Anybody who reads this devotional will find themselves in it some way or another, you know? And, like, the beautiful thing about life and faith is that, like, you can play the game of substitution. So if I talk about, like, my addiction with alcohol or my struggle with disordered eating and just, like, you know, the cycle of sin and repentance and deliverance and God's rescuing you, like, you can read my story and then just substitute your own struggle. And so that's what I love about this so much. But, yeah, I think when it comes to book, you're in a really similar position that I am, where, like, there's endless opportunities. Yeah. And people will push you to do things and write things and go places and speak at things. And what's crazy about having so much opportunity is you then get to really seek God's voice and like, yeah, I.

[B]

Feel like that's the place that you really have to be so strong in discernment, because otherwise you're just going to probably say yes to everything because you're like, it's an opportunity. What do you mean? When I started freelancing and I was doing makeup artistry full time before I knew Jesus, I was getting to a place where, like, word of mouth was traveling so much, which was amazing, but I was spreading myself so thin because I was getting so many opportunities. This is, like, on a different scale, I guess. Different field, but same concept, right? Where it's like I was getting all these opportunities which were exciting. And I felt almost guilty for saying no because I was like, what do you mean? Like, this is an opportunity that's come to me. How could I say no to it? Like, not only an opportunity for money, but it's like, you know, this is something I've wanted for a long time, was to be successful in what I do in makeup artistry. And so because I was saying yes to everything, I never really had, like, a free weekend. I was always traveling every weekend to do, you know, bridal parties and stuff. Yeah, There has to be, like, a level of discernment, which I just didn't have at the time because I didn't know Jesus. So I was just saying yes to everything, and then I was so burnt out, and then it's like, I'm not even really enjoying what I love to do anymore because I'm saying yes to everything and I had no discernment. So I was just, like, being like, yeah, okay, green light to everything, which really, actually took away just the joy of what I was doing. And also, I probably wasn't even, like, prioritizing my own relationships and, like, other things in my life. Well, because of that. And so, yeah, opportunities, it's awesome and it's exciting. But you do have to have discernment with the Lord of, like, okay, God, what is realistic and what are you actually calling me to do?

[A]

Because what are you calling me to do?

[B]

Like, what do you want me to. We've had this conversation before where there's things that can come into our life, but that doesn't actually mean that it's from God.

[A]

The door might open, but you might not be called to that door. That's what it is. And, like, we have so many open doors in our life, and it is in incredible. And it is a blessing from God. Like, thank you, Jesus. And I think the Test of our faith and everybody's faith. Who's in a position where, like, a door opens because it's so easy to walk through it and, like, God will honor and bless, like, the things you put your hand to, even if he hasn't called you to it. Like, it's not something to be afraid of. In the beginning of Girls Gone Bible, like, we were given, you know, so many opportunities and as so many people were asking us to do things. And luckily, Ari and I were always really prayerful and really, like, okay, is this actually something he wants us to do? Like, why would we do this? What is our heart in this? Like, what is. I'll speak for myself. Like, what is my heart in this? What is my motive, like, in going to this thing or doing this? Is it actually because God is calling me there? Sure. And I think as time has gone on, I've just, like, it's gotten a lot more narrow and. Wow, like, so much more narrow. Where, like, there's such an abundance of opportunity. And I'm like, I have an even more burning desire to say no to the things God has not called me to. Yeah. And to, like, really steward what he has called me to and not spread myself so thin trying to do everything because God opened the door. Like, it's like, an interesting tension where you're like, did he, though?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Well, it makes me think of that scripture that says, what is. Is it second Timothy 22, about open? Like, any door that the Lord. I might be wrong. Any door that the Lord opens cannot be shut, and any shut door by the Lord cannot be opened. But it's interesting that that scripture is saying that if God is the one to open it, then it can't be closed. God is the one to shut it. It can't be opened. Which I think is also. There's an underlying thing that applies, that there are other ways for doors to be opened and shut, but it's only by the Lord that they can't be reversed of what he calls to. Which is what I'm saying is, like, there are actually other ways for doors to be opened and shut, but it's the one that's certain. That's only by God. I used to live a life where I believed that every open door was just God, and that's not the truth. So then Ang, like, how do we decipher what is an open door by the Lord versus an open door that's just an open door?

[A]

Yeah, totally. I think even, like, pertaining to writing books and stuff, you know, Publishers and people have been like, okay, so what are we writing next? What are we doing next? And my response is just like, I will write a book when God gives me something to say yes. When I feel led, when I feel led, when I feel called, when I feel inspired, when I feel just like this. This burning sensation in me that, like, something is being birthed that has to come out. And you know how you discern whether you're supposed to walk through a door or not is you spend a lot of time with Jesus. You spend so much time with Jesus. You spend so much. I am a broken record with the Secret place because so many people want the things of God. Yeah. So many people want to hear God's voice. So many people want God's will to be carried out in their lives. Like, they want what God has for them. But it's like, you have to serve. Spend an extended amount of time with him in the Secret place for anything to take place. Because I think when we're operating out of selfish ambition, you're going to be confused. You're never going to hear completely right. And that's not, like, for people to be afraid. Like, oh, my gosh, am I? No. There's, like, peace when you're doing things with God, you operate out of peace. When you spend so much time with Jesus that there's like a transference that takes place. His heart replaces your heart, his thoughts replace your thoughts. And then, like, an opportunity comes your way and you realize, like, as soon as it comes, you already know there's something in you. Like, the Holy Spirit in you is like, yes, this is for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Holy Spirit in you is like, this just isn't the one. It's not bad. There have been so many things with girls gone Bible where it wasn't bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It wasn't sinful.

[B]

Like, it's not something that's gonna, like, ruin your career. No, it doesn't have to be that dramatic.

[A]

But it's different guests. It's different events, different things that I could have done that were not bad. But it's like a place of maturity in your faith where God is. Listen, I'm not going to make it that obvious to you now. I'm going to put, like, a deep, deep, like, stirring in your heart that you have to trust and seek and find to realize what my will is for you, you know, like. And so that's what I would say. Just spend so much time with Jesus and, like, check your own heart, check your own motives. Like, I think what I Do a lot is I'm just like, is this a cool opportunity? And there's nothing wrong with, like, wanting to do cool things.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And even experience cool things. Exactly. But I think it's just like, it's specifically in ministry, like, when you're on a level of, like, doing things for Jesus, it's a completely different ball game. Yeah. God gave us free will and he wants us to make good decisions. He actually wants us to make decisions for our lives. He actually wants us to step out in faith. He's actually completely okay with us making mistakes. And I think I didn't know that for so long where I was like, I can't do anything wrong. And God's just like, this is a journey that we walk out together.

[B]

And a partnership.

[A]

And a partnership. He's like, partners.

[B]

And if, you know, if you stumble and fall little bit, that's okay. I got you. Because we're partners in this, you know.

[A]

Totally. What is your tension with, like, saying yes to things, saying no to things? Like, do you live in that at all?

[B]

Oh, yeah. The tension for me is just like, making sure that I'm still in the will of God. That tension of, like, I just want to make sure that I'm making all the right decisions and that I'm hearing God clear as day. Because there are times in my life where I could have sworn that I could have sworn that I could have sworn that it was God's voice that I heard say that very thing. And then it turns out that it wasn't him.

[A]

And.

[B]

And that can kind of be like, a tricky place to be in. Because then it's like, I feel God continuing to challenge me to walk out in that same faith and confidence again, even though it kind of flopped where I'm like, but I didn't hear your. Apparently I didn't. You know, And I think there's a point where he's like, are you going to keep doing that even though you were wrong? And also, are you gonna have faith in me that, like, girl, just because you heard me wrong doesn't mean I can't pivot. I'm God. There's not just one lane of your life. And if you make like the wrong boo boo or decision, you're just like, oh, well, I'm not in the will anymore. I guess I'm not going to have that. I guess I'm not going to meet my husband now because I made this one. Like, God is so sovereign that he can move around a bajillion things to help guide you and still keep you on that path that he has you on.

[A]

Romans 8, 28. Like, he works all things together for good. All things. He can actually bless your mistakes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, he'll. He. He's so good that, like, especially if you have a pure heart, you have pure motives, like, God will actually, like, bless your mistakes.

[B]

He cleans it up.

[A]

He's obsessed. Obsessed with cleaning up our messes. He loves it. Yeah.

[B]

Because he's like, this is when I get to be dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I feel like that's also why he like, encourages me to still walk out in that same faith where he's like, ally, I saw your heart in that. Listen, you didn't hear me. Hey, that's okay. But you had so much faith that it was me and you walked out in that. Like, you believed in that thing. You believed it was certain. And that was the heart posture you had. And so whether you were right or wrong, that's all he cares about. Like, all I cared about in that moment was like, like I was seeking his voice.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Get out of the way. But it was him that I was seeking, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, that's kind of, I guess something that I've been recently walking through with that. Just that revelation of like, it's okay to make boo boos with God.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Especially when your heart posture is in a place of like, Lord, I really was just. I wanted to please you and I wanted to try my best. And I'm, you know, I missed the mark a little bit, but that's okay, you know?

[A]

Yeah, I think too, like, Grace. Grace having good voices for me is everything. I can't even believe al's the way I used to operate in faith. Like the way I used to go through life completely alone, making decisions. I mean, the sovereign hand of God in my life because he knew I was too silly to like, look for the right people in my life. I don't even know how I made it out alive. Like now. Having support, having community, having godly voices that I trust. It's not that I let other people make decisions for me by any means, but it's like these people in my life encourage me to like, look into my own heart. And they ask me questions and they help me process and they help me. If I ask someone like, do you think I should go speak at this event? Like, I'm not sure. Like, what do you think? They just take me on a journey into my own heart. Of like, why? What is it? What do you feel? What is the word Saying. And then through community and through talking to people, you realize, oh, okay, yeah, I think. And sometimes, right, I just, like, get a word from God and he's like, absolutely not or absolutely, yes. And then sometimes it takes, like, processing.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

He loves when we're in community. He loves when we talk to each other. He loves when you and I call each other and we're like, hey, I'm being a little crazy right now. Can you kind of help me? He loves it. So talking to the right people. The right people.

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

I just want to say, if you guys don't mind me interrupting, I just have to honor you on your own podcast. No, no, seriously. You are such a gift to me in this season. Such a gift. You guys, everyone who follows Ali and listens to our podcast. Like, you guys are in such good hands because this is a girl who walks out what she preaches. And you're so pure. You are the same person 24 hours a day, seven days of a week. I've literally never seen you compromise. I've literally never actually seen. And I'm not saying that you don't ever make a mistake, but, like, the deep rooted conviction in your heart is the same all the time, aligned with God's word. You know what I mean? That's not to say that you don't fall or make mistakes, whatever, but, like, you are the real deal.

[B]

Thanks, Anne.

[A]

And your voice in my life has been just such a gift. It's transformational. Like, it. Allie will rebuke me one time, remember? Just one time. No, she didn't rebuke me, but she's like, I didn't say that.

[B]

I just didn't tell you what you probably wanted to. And you're like, you're right.

[A]

That was absolutely. I wish I could say what it was. I know.

[B]

I love you.

[A]

I love you so much. Seriously, you're the sweetest.

[B]

Okay, well, everybody go get her book. It's amazing, this daily devotional.

[A]

Thank you, Jesus.

[B]

Where is it?

[A]

Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the places that you buy books. Sure. I don't know.

[B]

Look in Target. It might be there.

[A]

Please go. Yeah, look for it at Target. Tell us if you see it. Okay.

[B]

Ange, tell me about your day. How's your day?

[A]

Well, I woke up this morning, I'm on my way here. I'm, like, getting wrecked by God.

[B]

Angelic comes into the studio like a tornado right now, being like, God, Jesus. She's like, I'm so filled.

[A]

I'm, like, so filled.

[B]

I know what you're filled with. Tell me.

[A]

Just the Holy Spirit.

[B]

Yep, that'll do it.

[A]

No, I had such a good morning. I woke up at like 6am, spent time with Jesus. Oh, I was like.

[B]

I will say. Can I just say that you're so good at that. You're so good at that. There are so many times that I've stayed over at Ange's and like, before anything else, she's like, I have to sit with even before talking to me sometimes I'm finna. I'm trying to, like, yap, you know? And you're like, jesus first. And I'm like, I respect that. Actually, you're right. I should be doing that too.

[A]

Because the second I go for anything else, it just makes my life so much harder. When I'm in the secret place trying to connect with him and I'm already, like, revved up for so many other things. Well, don't like, hype me up that much, because this morning I sit down in the secret place and I'm looking at rugs.

[B]

In the secret place.

[A]

In the secret place.

[B]

On your phone.

[A]

On my phone.

[B]

Well, that was your first mistake. I don't know why we don't bring our phone.

[A]

Yeah, it was just, like, too early. I was too tired. For 10 minutes, I'm looking at rugs, and then I put my phone down and I'm like, I am so sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What am I doing?

[B]

I've done that too, though.

[A]

Like, not rugs, but, like, scrolling probably. Jesus. One second.

[B]

Dog beds, maybe. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. So that's what I did this morning. And then I drove here and I was just getting so touched thinking about, like, yeah, our friendship, our sleepovers where we talk about where we promise that we're gonna go to sleep at a normal hour. I've never met two people who can talk like we do.

[B]

And it's always about Jesus.

[A]

And it's all about Jesus every time.

[B]

Till 2 in the morning.

[A]

You make me love Jesus.

[B]

You make me love Jesus. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Every time I'm like, yes, she gets it.

[A]

I know. We're up until 3am There was nothing.

[B]

Sharing our testimonies again for the fifth time.

[A]

I know we've heard each other's stories so many times, but I'm going to tell you again, but in more detail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so cute.

[B]

It's so sweet. Okay, so, Angie, you're like, we're talking about the secret place. You're such an advocate for the secret place. And obviously, yeah, I mean, we're not perfect at being in it all the time, but I really see that in your life that that is something that, like, above all else, you're like, I have to be in the secret place. And I've even seen that with John, your sweet man. Like, truly, you guys both are like, secret place before I even talk to anyone, before I do anything. And I think that, like, it convicts me because I feel like a lot of times, I mean, that's my goal. And I think a lot of times I do get in the secret place first and foremost. But I think that there's just so many temptations and distractions. Like, even if my room is a mess, or even if I know that there's, like, some I'll just make my bed first or whatever. Like, I'll think of other things to do before getting into the secret place, thinking that it's going to give me peace of mind, because it's more so, like, if I don't have these things in order, I'm going to be just thinking about it the whole time I'm in the secret place. And I'm not even going to be able to give him my full attention anyway, so. But that hasn't really mattered because I get those things done and then I'm in the secret place. But then I'm like. Like, kind of burnt out a little bit. Like, I'm already, like, three hours into my day, and now I'm thinking about all the emails and the things that I need to do. So it's really never a win anyway, you know? But, like, what has brought you to such conviction to be like, no, it has to be Jesus before I start my day. Has that happened from just, like, experience of being like, okay, I've noticed that when I don't. Or, like, why?

[A]

Yeah. One of the most convicting pieces of scripture for me is that moment in the Gospels where Jesus asks his disciples to pray with him. He's like, I'm gonna go away, and I need you guys to stay awake and pray and pray and don't fall asleep. Just pray Jesus goes away. He comes back, everybody's asleep, and he basically says to them, you guys fall asleep. Like, you couldn't wait one hour with me. Wow. And I always think about, like, he asked for an hour of their time. Like, he promises to be with us forever.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And if you can't give him an hour of your time. So that, for me, is really, really convicting. And I just have enough history with God to where I know that intimacy is built not by Watching podcasts. Not by going to seminary, not by preaching on a stage. Actually, can I be honest? Having a podcast and preaching on a stage will destroy your intimacy with Jesus if it's not actually cultivated alone with him. Going to churches and even the secret place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, the secret place is you go into your room, you shut the door, and you. Yeah, you pray to the Father in secret, and he who sees you in secret will reward you openly. And so, like, I just. I know that everything that I need, I'm gonna find on my floor, on my face, by myself with Jesus. And I love corporate prayer. I love all of that. And I see the effects. Try it out. Why don't you go, why don't you not spend a week with Jesus and see what happens? For me, my natural default is anxiety. It's being really reactionary. Like, I can't control my emotions. I'll say things to people that I don't mean. I have, like, just a bunch. Like, my default is not good. Like, I am not good without Jesus. Yeah. So it's just intimacy and it's all cultivated. Spending time. And I think what I've realized the most is, yes, if all you have to give Jesus is five minutes, you give him that five minutes with all your heart. If you only have 30 minutes, you give him that 30 minutes. But your number one priority in life, before your career, before going to the gym, before even your spouse or even your children should be prioritizing time with Jesus. Does that look different for parents? Of course. But for me, not married, don't have kids. What's my excuse?

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

What's my excuse? To not wake up early and spend one to two hours in the morning? As a minister of the Gospel, I feel such a responsibility to spend more time with Jesus than on a stage talking about Him. I'm never going to get to a place where I'm talking about him more than I'm speaking to him by myself. Yeah, you and I. Anybody in ministry, which is basically everybody.

[B]

We all are, Angela.

[A]

We all content creators, people who just, you know, tell the person at work about Jesus. Like, we all have to.

[B]

We are all representing him.

[A]

Exactly. And like, we respect, receive everything we need in that alone time with him, where you're just like, genuinely seeking his face, loving him, telling him over and over and over again, I love you. You're the Lord of my life. You're the Lord of my heart. Please give me. Take everything and just give me yourself. Yeah. One thing that was so convicting for me I had this moment when I was on tour because on the days that we have, like, tour nights, I don't leave my hotel room and I'm with Jesus from the second I wake up, up until I'm at the theater. Pray the whole time I'm at the theater. It's basically like eight hours in the secret place, on and off. But, like, I'm like, don't call me, phones on, do not disturb. I won't see anyone. I don't go anywhere when I'm on tour. Like, we don't go see the city. Like, I'm just in my room. And I realized one day I was in the secret place where I was just like, oh, I got hit with such deep conviction where I was like, why do I seek him more diligently when I know I'm going to need him to show up, Up. Oh, why?

[B]

Like, because of the occasion?

[A]

Yes, because I know I need him. Like, he need. I need him to show up. I need his power. I need oil. I need his presence in that room. Like, I need Him. And I felt him be like, where is this urgency on a Tuesday morning? You know? Like, seriously, it's like, yeah. So for me, that's just the place he's just. And he deserves it.

[B]

He does. He's so faithful, though. He still shows up no matter what.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

So sweet that he's still like. But I'm still gonna hang out with you for eight hours, and I'm still gonna give you what you need for this. For sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm still gonna give you what you need even in the five minutes that you can spend with me at home, too. It's true, though. Like, why are we more desperate for him in the times where it's like, I really, really need you, versus the times where you're like, yeah, I could use some of you today. Yeah, for a little bit.

[A]

I'm just gonna go to the gym. Have a good day. What makes us think we don't need him those days just as desperately? Yeah. And it's just about. Yeah. Affection. Adoration. Like, he wants. Wants our affection.

[B]

It does.

[A]

And, like, the more time you spend with Jesus, believe it or not, the more time you actually want to spend with him.

[B]

Yeah. Last night I was reading with a friend. There was this line in the book. I don't remember what we were reading. Lord, help me remind. Help me remember exactly how it went. It was about, like, how to love God and let's, like, have affection for God. It's not about how much we can know about God. Like, our reflection of. Of our love for him and our adoration for him is not by how much we know about Him. Yes, because we can know all about him, but it's actually that love and adoration that we have for Jesus can only come from a place of intimacy and experiencing him. Experiencing him, like, not just, like, knowing all the. Because knowing about him is giving. Like how the Pharisees knew everything about, you know, scripture, and they knew all of the law, and they knew this and that, and that actually wasn't a reflection of their love for God.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Our reflection of our love for God is based off of how much we've actually encountered Him. Which is what? Secret place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Intimacy with Him. One on one, in secret with him is how we love Him. Well, so if you feel like you're not showing up and loving God well enough, and you're like, wow, Lord, I'm like, really not that loyal to you. It's like, how much are we really showing up for him in intimacy? One on one, in secret. No one sees it. It's just you and dad. That's the only way we're gonna be able to love him well is if we're receiving his love. It's like this, like, flow. It's like a circle, you know, where it's like, it goes and it comes and it goes and it comes. And that's the only way that we can really have intimacy for Him.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because he has all the intimacy for us.

[A]

The two scriptures I always think about are, first, we love because he first loved us.

[B]

That's literally what it is.

[A]

We have to receive his love. Whenever I'm in the secret place, I'm like, give it to me. I'm open. I want it all. I want all the love.

[B]

Give me all of it.

[A]

Give me all of it. What did they say? Give me all. No, seriously, because I can't. I actually can't even love you until you love me first. Yeah.

[B]

And I let you.

[A]

You.

[B]

Like, I open my heart and I'm like, I need you to pour into me.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. And I think about the scripture. That's like. Well, it's not scripture, but, like, knowledge. Knowledge is so good. Yeah. Like, coming from someone who, like, I want to read everything and know everything, and, like, I just have a mind that just, like, wants to know everything. I think really logically, like, scripture should lead you to an encounter. It should not just be words. It shouldn't just be knowledge that, like, you can go debate people with, like, it should actually lead you straight into the heart of Jesus. And. Yeah, one of my favorite moments in the Gospels. What is it? Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and he's like, you search the scriptures for eternal life, but you don't realize that the scriptures speak of me, but you won't turn to me that you may have eternal life. So, like, there's no point in reading the scriptures if we're not looking for Jesus. Like, we're supposed to look for Jesus. You read Nehemiah, all right.

[B]

I don't know Nehemiah. Can't you tell me about it, girl? I haven't read the whole Bible.

[A]

Nehemiah, Jordan, the Lord is yours. Strength. I know a little bit about it. Something about a wall, I think. Oh. Or is that Jericho? I don't know. Anyways, you can keep that. No, but, like, you're just. Everything points to Jesus.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

What's your favorite book in the Bible? What do you love about the Bible?

[B]

Okay. Well, I love that the Bible points me to Jesus everywhere, all the time. Well, I actually love that we're talking about how the scripture should lead you to the Spirit, because that's exactly what happened to me in my testimony was that it was actually the minute that I started reading the Bible was when I encountered the. The spirit of God. I had never encountered the spirit of God in my life until I started reading Scripture.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

It was scripture that led me to the spirit of Jesus. It was the first time I'd ever felt his love. And it was while I was reading the book of Matthew. I don't even know where I was at. I think the first time that I really, like, was brought to tears and I was encountered was when I was reading the story in Matthew about Peter and the boat and how Jesus.

[A]

He was sleeping.

[B]

No, not sleeping. When he was. Was walking on water.

[A]

Walking on water. Two stories to Peter.

[B]

Those are very sleeping one. But I like that one, too.

[A]

No.

[B]

When he stepped out in the water. Yeah. I don't know. I think I had this misunderstanding about the Bible, that it was old and it was something that I couldn't comprehend. And it was dusty and it was Thou shalt not. Yeah. I just had this understanding that there's no way it would connect to my life. I actually wasn't even expecting that. I didn't think that the Bible could talk about my life.

[A]

Life. Wow.

[B]

Like, I didn't realize that the Bible could speak directly into my situation in the year 2023, where I was At. At that time, through a story of Jesus and Peter walking out on water. Like, the way that I saw my life in that scenario and the way that that scripture spoke to me, I was like, oh, my gosh, what is this? And it just. It completely altered my pov. Now I'm like, I couldn't. I could not stop reading. I couldn't get enough of it. I was like, I love this feeling, whatever this is. I feel loved.

[A]

It's water. It's nourishing. It's water I was drinking for the first time. Yes. It's bread for your soul. It's rivers of living water. That's what I experienced you. Yeah.

[B]

So Matthew. And I think it's just. I mean, I love the Bible. I love the Gospels.

[A]

I love the Gospels.

[B]

But I think Matthew specifically is just really sentimental to me for that reason where it was like, that was the moment that I really encountered Jesus and his spirit for the first time.

[A]

That's so special.

[B]

So that's my favorite book.

[A]

That's so special.

[B]

I really like Romans, too, though.

[A]

Love Romans.

[B]

Romans is a good one.

[A]

What do you like from the Old Testament?

[B]

Okay. This is gonna sound so cheese. It's not cheese, though. But I love Genesis.

[A]

Yeah. Yep.

[B]

I love Genesis, like, one through three, the best. I love reading about how my dad created everything for us.

[A]

First of all, yes.

[B]

He loved us that much that he said, I'm gonna put sweet little stars in the sky, and then I'm gonna put a light in the sky that's specific for nighttime, though, just to give a glow so you can see. And then there's a light that comes during the day. And I'm just like, you're just so sweet and intentional.

[A]

God, so smart.

[B]

And then he brings man into the world, and he says, and by the way, you've done nothing to deserve this. I just freaking love you this much, but you get to rule. It's all yours. And I'm like, why, dad? You're so sweet.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Like, we did nothing. And. Yeah. So anyway, I. I literally love.

[A]

Genesis is one of the best. I love it. Of the Bible. It's rich with stories. Rich. I'm reading.

[B]

The account of Creation for me is like, that's just the coolest story ever.

[A]

It's so cool.

[B]

Of how God created everything. So. The beginning.

[A]

The beginning.

[B]

I love the beginning.

[A]

I know people. I remember for the longest time, like, for years, I wouldn't read the Old Testament because I didn't like, what. I have no idea what's going on there. Yeah, it's scary. Like, it doesn't make any sense. And, man, you reach a place where you start reading the Old Testament and you're like, these are the richest Bible stories. What's the craziest thing for me is, like, I love reading the Old Testament and looking for Jesus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love the idea that, like, God is, like, breathing life into these words and, like, it's hundreds and thousands of years before the incarnation of Jesus, and it's all about Jesus.

[B]

It's so cool.

[A]

I'm reading through Judges right now because I'm reading the Bible from the beginning to the end. It's taking me a long time because I keep jumping around. But anyways, it's taking me a long time. I'm in Judges right now, and Judges is probably, like, the scariest book of the Bible.

[B]

Wait, that's crazy, because I was sitting in the secret place a couple weeks ago, and I was like, lord, what.

[A]

Book do I read?

[B]

And I heard Judges, and I was like, no.

[A]

Well, you should read Judges, because it's like, okay, Judges. I mean, it's a really mature book. Judges is basically. It's like, not a redemptive story at all. Yeah, it is.

[B]

And we love redemptive stories.

[A]

We do, we do. But this is all about people, men and women, judges who fell and fell and fell and couldn't get it right. It's basically a book that teaches you what not to be, don't do this, and who not to be. And. Yeah, it's just crazy. It's like the tie between the book of Judges to Jesus is that, like, God would send Israel judge after judge after judge to deliver them. And so it was the cycle of sin, repentance, deliverance. But then they do it over and over and over again.

[B]

Probably also is a good, good representation of God's mercy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, they keep going back to the same. It's a cycle. And he still shows up and rescues.

[A]

Yeah, that's his heart. That's so his heart. And it just points to. Directly to the final judge. Yeah, like, directly to Jesus. Like, okay, we would have had to do this for all of our lives. This, like, continual cycle of being delivered and being saved and having to, like. And then finally, God was like, it's over enough. Here's your one and final judge once and for all. No more sacrifices. We still have that cycle, right? Of, like, sin repentance. God, please come help me. I did it again. Like, we do that, but it's different because we do have a final judge, and it's just so special. I'm obsessed with the Old Testament.

[B]

I need to get more into the Old Testament tbh.

[A]

Well, it's just like the history of our faith. It's just amazing. Yeah. But then every time I'm in the New Testament, I randomly go back and I'm like, here he is. Yeah. My brain has to work just a little less.

[B]

It's true. Your brain does have to work a little less in the New Testament.

[A]

Oh, yeah. 100. And it's like. It is. It's like that feel good where I as. Where I feel good every time. And yeah, I love that. I love you.

[B]

Okay, so I actually wanted to ask one more question about. L get your coffee leash. Will you tell everybody what Lou means?

[A]

Yeah. By the way, I'm the worst podcaster. I don't know how to go from like, I want to have an actual conversation. Yeah. Like, you should see when people are on our podcast or when we go on other people.

[B]

I've been on it a couple times.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I forgot.

[B]

We do be jumping around though.

[A]

We jump around. There's no like, set anything. What were you asking?

[B]

Oh, no, I didn't yet.

[A]

Louch.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, so what does it mean, my nephew? I don't know. It doesn't mean anything. My nephew. His name is Liam. He's got these big fat, chunky legs and they're so cute. And we call him Louch. And then John started saying loosh. And then our friend Johnny started saying Louch. And now Ali says Louch and we're.

[B]

And Christina says Louch. And now we all just.

[A]

Just say, now we're grown ups who just look at each other and go. And it's really. Wait, why did I think it was.

[B]

An like an Albanian like word?

[A]

See it like, yeah, it is. It's an. But it doesn't mean anything.

[B]

It doesn't mean anything.

[A]

No.

[B]

What's the word that means love?

[A]

Spirit. It means like heart. It actually means spirit translated. But it's like, I know. I wonder what Holy spirit is in Albanian. Why don't I know that?

[B]

Should we look it up?

[A]

He has a Christ. John always goes, cuz, I love you.

[B]

That's Jesus Christ.

[A]

Yeah, I love you. As to us. So John goes to do a shum. Yeah. So Chris, I love you so much. Jesus Christ.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

So cute. John.

[B]

Oh, John.

[A]

Oh, John.

[B]

Yeah. So, okay, this was back when we were talking about the secret place a little bit, but I personally have this question because I've struggled with this. Sometimes is like knowing how important it is to be in the secret place every single day at the top of your day. How do you stay from it? Becoming performative? Yeah, because I, like, I felt the Lord convict me a couple times of being like, hey, girl, you're trying to show up right now and, like, impress me. And it genuinely comes from a place of, like, wanting to please him and, like, wanting to do the right things. But then how? I just feel like there's such a fine line of, like, making sure that you're not coming to him, being like, okay, I'm doing all the right things, right, God?

[A]

Yeah. This is such a good question, because I've dealt with this so much that, like, performance striving.

[B]

And it's not even if you're sitting at his feet. It's like, why am I not feeling peace right now?

[A]

And.

[B]

And it's typically because I'm, like, trying to. I'm striving, striving.

[A]

That's what it is. And I think especially if you're like, a presence person and you've like, experienced the glorious presence of God, it's like you want to do whatever you can to get there. And so I found myself in a state of, like, trying to get there. And God's like, where are you going? Like, to you, dad, I'm already here. Relax.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

And so. So for me, even just recently, I've realized this. You find the grace. So there's so many different type forms of worship. Studying scripture is worship. Marching around, praying in tongues is worship. Sitting and soaking in an instrumental and just like, quietly saying, like, I love you, Lord. I love you so much. That's worship. Singing your heart out is worship. Sitting in complete silence for an hour is worship. And these are all things that I do, right? These are. And I, like, will go back and forth between what I do and I. I've figured out that, like, I need to go where the grace is because I feel like he wants different things at different times. Like, it's all about moving the heart of God. And I feel like for me to get us out of a religious cycle, he will be like, I don't want you to do that anymore. Wow. Find me in the scriptures today. Yeah, there was a.

[B]

Like, I love that, Ange.

[A]

Yeah. So you know what? Sometimes I've been going, it doesn't have.

[B]

To look like the same exact thing every morning.

[A]

And it honestly maybe shouldn't. It can if that's where the grace is. But like. Like, for example, I have been, after you told me that you go in the closet. I started going in the closet, and it's been so special. And then I was in the closet the other day, and I was like, the grace isn't here. Yeah, I'm trying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm striving right now. So I got up, I went into the living room. I started dancing around my room. I start around the living room. I started marching around, yelling at the top of my lungs, and I was like, this is where the grace is.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

This is what he wants from me.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

And so if you find yourself striving, do nothing except just ask them to come. Yeah. And just receive. Like, that's something that I've really realized is like, I need to receive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before I try doing anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And one other thing that I will suggest is you have to be careful about relying on your feelings and letting your feelings be the measure of, like, whether God came or whether you worshiped enough. Because sometimes I can be like, but I didn't feel him enough. Like, feel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like God being.

[B]

He's more than a feeling.

[A]

He's more than a feeling. And like, no offense, your feelings can't be trusted all the time. Like, when I'm stressed, when I'm anxious, I almost, like, I'm not as tender. And so then I'm. I find myself being like, but where is he? And he's like, why don't you just read the Bible? Because you can trust that.

[B]

Yeah, that's so.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. I love that. I love that you brought up that it can look different every morning. And like, what you said, where it's like, when you've experienced that before, you want to keep. Keep getting to that.

[A]

Why am I not we.

[B]

I want to be weeping and giving you all my tears. Like, I love you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think, like, when you've experienced it, maybe in a certain way, you can be like, okay, I have to do exactly that again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then it turns into, like, this, like, religious. Just, like, legalistic, where it's, like, ritualistic. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Well, because then you're putting your faith in the practice and not the person of Jesus. You know, like, you're like, if I.

[B]

Make sure that I'm sitting exactly where I was last time and I have this set up and I take my communion. I'm literally speaking from experience because I'm like, I want to be able to show up for him that same way and to experience him that, you know, that way again, that you're, like, going through okay, I'm gonna do it exactly the way I did it. But maybe he doesn't wanna show up for you that same exact way. Like that, that day again. Maybe he wants to show up for you in a different way. Maybe he wants you guys to, like, be in communion in another way where you're. Yeah. Dancing around your kitchen or whatever that looks like. There are times where I've, like, tried to sit in my closet or in my living room or whatever, because I'm like, okay, I Jesus, like, crazy. Last time I did this, I'm going to do it again. And then it's like, not really doing that again, and I'm. And then I immediately think that maybe there's something wrong with me. But then I move on and I'm like. I bring my speaker into my bathroom and I'm doing my makeup, and I'm, like, being encountered as I'm in the middle of doing my makeup. I'm like, okay, there he is. So it's just crazy that I just love that you said that, because it doesn't have to look the same every day.

[A]

And there was even a point in time where I made an idol out of a candle and, like, incense, where I actually would panic if I was, like, in a hotel or somewhere and I didn't have a candle. I would Uber eats a candle to my hotel. And, like, I felt like I couldn't have quiet time until I had a candle because I just, like, made a weird connection like that. This is what sets the atmosphere.

[B]

Why do we do that?

[A]

We're humans, and God's like, they get scared. Yeah. If we just get scared. We get used to things.

[B]

If you're not. If candle's not here. It's not. And he's like, I don't need a candle.

[A]

And so he's going to continuously break. Like, he's just in the business of breaking every ideal, every, like, practice every ritual. He's like, nope, I'm over here now. Not like he's running away and making you chase him, but in a way that's just like, hey, let's do something different. Because it's not about that. It's never been about that. Yeah.

[B]

That's so good. I love that you said that. I needed that, actually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I felt like I was feeling that a little bit this morning where I was like, I'm doing all the things right.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and it's striving, and sometimes you just.

[B]

Can't you feel it too?

[A]

Okay, let's talk about John for a Second, what I've learned from John. John, like, and I don't know if he'd be okay with me. I'm sure he's fine. But, like, I'll ask him after and make sure. But. Right. Like, John spends two hours a day with Jesus every single morning. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's an appointment he does not miss. It's incredible. And John has gone through a period of, like, a really dry season where he's not crying before God. He's not at times, of course, and it's, like, on and off. But he's. He's had times where he's consistently felt dry and been like, give me a drink. Like, I. I want to drink. And you're. I just. I want to drink. And he feels like he doesn't get a drink. But the man is so faithful that he shows up every day for two hours regardless of what he feels. Wow.

[B]

Like.

[A]

And it's just something that has inspired me so much and convicted me so much that, like, man, we focus so much on what we feel. And. Right. There is an element that, like, if your heart has. Has hardened towards God and you're not tender like before. Sure.

[B]

I think that's a lot of our fear, too.

[A]

Yeah. And it's fear, stress, anxiety, Those are all things. But to still show up and be faithful, to be in the scriptures, to sit and be like, I might not be having a profound spiritual experience right now. It may not feel like you just walked in the door, but I know that you're faithful to your word that says, if I draw near to you, you will draw near to me, and you will, like, produce in me all that needs, needs to be produced. I'm just gonna sit and believe you're doing it. That's so good, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And I feel like as long as we continue to walk out in that, it really does help rewire our minds.

[A]

Right.

[B]

To, like, not rely on our feelings so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feelings are good. I've said that on the podcast. I mean, like, feelings are something. Emotions. Feelings are things that God has given us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that they can be good indicators of things, but I don't think that they should be something that we, like, solely trust. Trust and rely on. Maybe they can be used as, like, a light where you're like, okay, I'm feeling this way. You know what I mean? Like a signal, maybe.

[A]

Yeah. Between, like, a deep. Right. Because people are. Can be feelers to where they, Like, God speaks to them through feelings.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Then I think there's a difference between relying on those feelings as opposed to relying on those, like, heart, emotion, all over the place type of feelings. I rely on my feelings as discernment a lot of the time. A gut like, oh, I felt that wasn't right. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like intuition.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I didn't speak intuition was like, a biblical thing until I literally was written. It is. It's in the Book of Job. Yeah. At the end of the Book of Job, it's like, who gives you intuition and something in your heart?

[A]

But it's like, oh, I stopped saying intuition because I thought it wasn't good either.

[B]

It's in the Bible.

[A]

Oh, oh, okay.

[B]

God gives us intuition. And I think that that also speaks to, like, that is something that God has put in all of us, whether we know him or not. Like, when we have gut feelings and intuition, that's actually a gift from God. He's put that in us.

[A]

Oh, yes. I absolutely. That. Yeah.

[B]

Look up the scripture.

[A]

Yeah, look it up. I always think of it as, like, just the Holy Spirit speaking.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

It's. And that's what intuition is. It's literally the Holy Spirit prompting you. I think what I have experienced with emotions is, like, as long as you become very aware, like, introspective work is the greatest thing you could ever do for yourself. Looking inward and thinking, okay, what am I feeling? Is this a wound? Am I triggered? Am I going through something? Am I looking at this the right way? So, like, for me, I will rely on my feelings, things when I know that I'm not operating from a wound.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I am sometimes. And so those are the times where I'm like, oh, I'm not going to rely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On my feeling. Right. Like, you get into an argument with someone, you're like, I don't know. My discernment's going off because. And it's like, you might be a little triggered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know.

[B]

Yeah. It's so true.

[A]

And so you have to actually, like, really rely on the Holy Spirit to speak to you and, like, guide you through that. Because we all have so many wounds and so many things that, like, you. You can't trust your feelings a lot of the time.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

You know? Yeah.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Did you find the scripture?

[B]

No, I didn't. Yeah, I wanted to be able to still make eye contact.

[A]

Sweetie. Sorry.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's job. 38, 36. 38, 36 jobs. Oh, but he got a happy ending.

[A]

He did. Okay. Not poor Job.

[B]

Yay, Job. Then he got to witness, what was it, four generations. And he grew old and he got. And he got even more than what was taken from him.

[A]

Thank you, God.

[B]

We love that. Happy ending. Okay, job 38, 36, which says, says, who gives intuition to the heart and instinct to the mind?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Isn't that crazy? Who is wise enough to count all the clouds? Who can tilt the water? Jars of heaven, when the parched ground is dry and the soil has hardened into clods. He's talking about God. So God does actually give us intuition and instinct.

[A]

I love. Yes.

[B]

Instinct is real.

[A]

Instinct is so real. And you know how you develop good instincts or God instincts and God intuition. The secret place.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm telling you, it's true. Spend time with Jesus.

[B]

I'm telling you.

[A]

I'm telling you, that's where you get it.

[B]

It's true. Well, yeah. And I even think back to times of my life, like, when I didn't know the Lord yet. Like, there were situations where I probably could have gotten in a lot of danger or trouble. And it's like, no, I didn't know Jesus yet, but I did have, like, instinct. I had an intuition. I had a feeling in my gut that was like, you shouldn't do this. So it's just cool that I feel like. I mean, God can reach us even before we even. Oh, honey, we even know him because he planted those things in us before he formed the earth.

[A]

Exactly. And, you know, always knew you, and he always knew that you'd be sitting here on CWCOI and, you know, and he was always guiding you. And then, of course, we're a little like, sorry, I'm gonna go this way. But he's always been moving. He's all. I can't even. My favorite thing to do is think about little Ange. Yeah. Teenage Ang. Young adult Ang. Running through life and just, like, imagining Jesus like, there, his hand, like the sovereign hand of God, not letting me get in too much trouble, not letting me get too hurt, letting me hit a sort of rock bottom, you know, that I would completely come to the end of myself and need him. But, like, I just see the sovereign hand of God in my life, putting the right people in my life, putting Socrates, my mentor, in my life, just orchestrating everything to be like, you are a dis. Disaster. So I'm going to move you this way and get you to where I need you to go and put the right instincts in you, even though a lot of the time you listen to the wrong ones. They're still there. I'm still. I'm still with you. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Are there any memories or things like, of your past that you think about and you're like, oh my gosh, like, like a scenario or like a situation where you're like, the Lord's hand was on my life in that moment and you didn't even know it. Have you thought about stuff like that?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot. I look back at my whole journey, like the few years before I got sober. I got sober when I was 23 years old after battling a really gnarly alcohol addiction. I was self medicating with alcohol because of my severe panic attacks and anxiety. Like, my mental health was so bad I was drinking to fix it. The alcohol was making it so much worse. It was this debilitating, violent cycle of like doing something that only makes you feel worse. Worse. Death to death to death. Like, it was so, so horrible. And I was telling Ali about this the other night. I like always tell my testimony, but I never really tell about this. Before I got sober, I was like living in this house with a boyfriend, with a bunch of people, with friends, in just like a really dark, dark, dark environment. Like, it was so dark the way you described it.

[B]

I don't know if I.

[A]

Can you tell me. Yeah, well.

[B]

Well, the way that you described it. And Christina, even in that moment, she was like, it sounds like you're literally in an episode of like euphoria.

[A]

Yeah, it was like that. It was like there was a lot of alcohol. It was just really dark. It was literally like euphoria. And I just remember like, the walls were brick and dark red and it just like looked like hell a little bit. And like, I think back and wow, I would just go from like, it was like this big house with all these people and I would just go from like, you know, back and forth between friends with this, this boyfriend and all this stuff. And I was just drowning in addiction and in alcohol and in a million types of sins, battling a violent eating disorder. And like, it was so beyond dark. And I just imagine like God watching me that whole time, keeping me still above water because I was going under fast, but I was still above water somehow sending my ex boyfriend, this guy who came around as a friend. He was my friend for a long time. He basically looked me in my face and was like, you're better than this.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You're better than all of this. And I was like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. Like, I never thought that. Yeah, I Would get out of the situation I was in. I. I didn't even have the awareness to know that I should. Long story short, this guy kind of like, he's such a, like, earth angel. Like, literally an angel sent by God.

[B]

Yeah. The Lord sent him.

[A]

Yeah. To remove me from the. This place. He ultimately gives me an ultimatum where he's like, I'm not going to be in your life if you continue to drink. And it was just like a really insane, beautiful, beautiful situation. But, like, I see. And during that time, Jesus sends Socrates, my mentor, who teaches me about Jesus, who prays warfare prayers over me that, like, I'd be healed of alcoholism, that I'd be healed of anxiety. So I see the Lord working. He gets me out of this environment. He sends Socrates into my life. My ex boyfriend gives me an ultimatum. The stars align and I lay down alcohol. Wow. And I never pick it back up again.

[B]

That's supernatural. When you told me that, I'm like, and that's not always everyone's story.

[A]

It's not. It's not everybody's story. It's not. And. Right. And that's a tension that I live in where I'm just like, I watch people. Because then over time, Jesus healed me of anxiety. He healed me of panic attacks. Do I still have a little panty attack?

[B]

I had so much anxiety before I knew the Lord. And it's still. Of course, I do believe that. I've been like, it doesn't rule my life anymore. I don't bow to anxiety anymore. But there are times where it can still be tempting. And I think when you're familiar, when you lived in something like that for so long and it was. I mean, it's uncomfortable, but it's comfortable.

[A]

At the same time.

[B]

It's like, it sucks, but you're like, I know it and I've lived it. And it's like, it can still be tempting to, like, shake hands with it again. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. And you add like, epigenetics and like, like, you know, predisposition, genetic predispositions. It's like, yeah, there's anxiety that's reigned throughout my family's history. And so of course, it tries to rear its head back into my life. But overall, like, yeah, I received a moment of supernatural deliverance where I literally never craved alcohol again.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

And I told you this, like, literally, you guys, the Holy Spirit inside of me, because at that point, I'd already accepted Jesus. Socrates, definitely, the first day he met me, led me to salvation. And so right. The second you received Jesus, you receive the Holy Spirit inside of you. And then the Holy Spirit inside of you begins to empower you. He begins to work. He begins to transform you from the inside out, make you more like Jesus. But that work of the Holy Spirit, I will never forget. This is the sovereign hand of God. And I had no idea that this was happening. But I look back at that time. Thanksgiving 2019. Somehow I did, guys, I didn't even make a decision to stop drinking. And I was a full blown alcoholic. I literally see this guy say in my face like, I'm done. I don't want anything to do with you if you keep drinking. Right. God uses people. He loves using people. He speaks through people.

[B]

He does God use anyone.

[A]

He can use anyone. Even a non believer, like my ex boyfriend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in that moment, something happened within me where I realized I'm done drinking. But I never actually, like made the decision. I didn't say even to the guy, like, hey, I'm done drinking. I. It was like an internal knowing. And then I remember waking up the next morning, looking up at the ceiling and being like, I'm not gonna drink today. Wow. But I was like doing it in slow motion. I wasn't making the decision. It was something at work in me, getting me through. I would be going to work. My first month after getting sober, I was completely disassociated. People usually, they. You can die when you just.

[B]

Cold turkey.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I would go through withdrawals when I wouldn't have a drink drink for 30 minutes. So let alone like bad. So I cut it cold turkey. I wake up the next morning, pretty sure I have to go to work. The next day I'm working at this restaurant in Woodland Hills. I'm driving to work. I'm completely disassociated. I will never forget. I'm passing by the liquor store that I used to go to at 8 o' clock in the morning. I passed by it and I'm just like, okay, I'm not stopping there. Wow. But it wasn't me. Like I wasn't making.

[B]

It was like something was taking over somebody.

[A]

Lord was like putting one foot in front of the other, one hand in front of the other. I go to work, completely disassociated, drive back home, see the same liquor store on the way back, and I just pass by it and somehow I don't stop. I used to have a magnetic pole towards the liquor store. Like there was actually sin reigning in my body that caused me to do things that I Wasn't even choosing to do myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like Paul writes, like, literally sin is at work in me, making me do things that I. I mean, that was your Lord. Yeah, no, it was my. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, I don't know how we got there. I love this.

[B]

Well, cuz I had asked like, is there, was there a time in your life where you're like, oh, God was in my life. Like that was the hand of the Lord.

[A]

That was the sovereign hand of God on my life, like to get me to where I am today. It is the sovereign hand of God. I don't have a father's voice. I don't have much guidance. I didn't have protection. I was really good at hiding what I was going through. Hiding the alcohol addicts become masculine masters at hiding those things. And yeah, it was the sovereign hand of God and it's the sovereign hand of God in my life.

[B]

And you never had it like you never had a feeling of wanting to pick up alcohol again?

[A]

Never. The first month of being sober, I didn't know what was going on. So it wasn't like.

[B]

Were you feeling withdrawals? You're saying you're disassociated?

[A]

I was just so, my. I was experiencing. I don't remember going through with like headaches, anything. Yeah, I mean, I was totally unwell, but I wasn't like, I was like, like shaking a lot. I didn't go through withdrawals where I needed to be hospitalized or anything. And that's usually what happens. But I remember I woke up the next day and yeah, I mean, I felt awful. But the biggest thing was I had been battling anxiety for like four or five years at that point. Like four years and panic attacks. And so imagine my one numbing agent gone, I no longer had.

[B]

And alcohol makes you so much more anxious.

[A]

So much more anxious. And then. So I not only don't have the thing to numb my anxiety that I've numbed for all these years, I've also destroyed my body for the past couple of years with drinking alcohol, drugs, weed. Vaping destroys your body. Wow. Destroys you. And so that on top of it, my mind like fully disconnected from my body because it was such an extreme heightened level of anxiety that I could no longer like be in my body. It felt like. So then I started going through really hard stuff. My story didn't end there. Then I started having derealization. Depersonalization.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

So derealization and depersonalization. It's a symptom of anxiety and like disassociation. Where your anxiety is so heightened that your brain actually gets confused and, like, derealization makes you feel like you're not real and, like, you'll be like, you'll look in the mirror.

[B]

Sometimes when I'm, like, really anxious about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I haven't experienced it a lot, but sometimes, like, if I know that I have to, like, speak or get on stage or whatever, like, I can get so anxious that I'm like, hello.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's what that is.

[A]

That's what that is. It's your body.

[B]

I even had to be like, hello.

[A]

I know. Hello. It's your body trying to protect itself. Wow.

[B]

It's giving fight or flight.

[A]

Oh, it's so fight or flight.

[B]

It's disassociation, which is actually. I heard somebody say this POV where it's like. It's actually not a bad thing that that happens. I mean, it just shows that your body is doing what it's supposed to do.

[A]

Right. It wants to protect you.

[B]

Yeah. Which is good, but just not right time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't need that right now.

[A]

Don't need that. And. Yeah. Especially if you're, like, living in it.

[B]

Like, it's better than being numb.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Like, it's okay. My body is operating like she's in fight or flight. This is good. She's doing what she's supposed to do, but it's. It's about, like, it coming at the times that it comes where it's like. This is actually, like, literally debilitating me. Like, I can't do anything.

[A]

It's good if it comes when you are. Indeed.

[B]

When you're. Yeah. Like when there's a bear.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Please.

[B]

But if you're just sitting in a coffee shop, it's like, I didn't mean this right now.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, I experienced that a lot. And then over the next few years, I was. Would spend time with Jesus, start listening to sermons, start praying my heart out with Socrates. He taught me everything. And over time, abiding in Jesus, the presence of God is the best therapy you could go to. And I love therapy. I just went the other day. She told me I had a lot of problems. She showed me.

[B]

She did a lot of problems.

[A]

She goes, I, like, told her my story and everything.

[B]

And she goes, you have a lot of problems.

[A]

Well, she goes, are you okay? I said, yeah. Why? And she. Yeah, she told me that I have heightened anxiety. I said. I said, I don't like that. Oh. And she said, yeah, you have to be careful. She Goes, you have such a high capacity for stress that you're able to like, ride like over it. But that's not good for you. I said, okay, well, let's fix that.

[B]

What do we do to fix that?

[A]

We're gonna fix it. She go on every Tuesday. Jesus and therapy. Love therapy. Wow.

[B]

I should get into that, huh? Hey, I feel like everyone around me is getting into therapy.

[A]

I should. Because a lot of us find Jesus and we're all like, spirit, spiritual work, spiritual warfare, casting out demons.

[B]

I can do it. I can fight. I have the Holy Spirit. Which is true.

[A]

Which is true. But. And God's like, but you can't cast out your father wound. Oops.

[B]

You can't cast that out.

[A]

You can't. You can't, you know, rebuke your father's absence.

[B]

No, it's actually crazy. I feel like I will just say I don't. We don't have enough time for me to like, actually get into this, but.

[A]

Can you just tell us something about you?

[B]

Sure. So I've been walking with Jesus for two years and I don't know how much I've actually figured faced the boo boos of my life. Some boo boos, some boo boos that were like, more surface, that were like, obvious, if that makes sense. But I feel like he's really been. He's been maturing me so much too, and just like showing me that there's more that needs to kind of like come up and come out. And there have been things that have come into my life that have really revealed some of those things, you know? And also like my mentor, the mentorship that I've been getting lately too. I never really had, like, mentorship up until now. So that's really helped me too, like, dig and, and get these things that are so much deeper and like, from my childhood and stuff. So anyway, that makes sense. I say all of that to say that therapy could be cool, because I'm seeing that there are some deeper things that would be good to probably talk through. Cause I don't even know how to find it sometimes I'm like, oh, that's there. That was really deep and below the surface, like very much so. And I would imagine there's probably more. It's just nice to have somebody guiding you, which the Holy Spirit can do. Yeah, but it's nice to have somebody that can like, guide you through that and show you, you and be like, hey, I'm a therapist and I know these things and I'm good at it and I can show you how to find it. And this is what we're gonna do about it. You know, it's so good.

[A]

I think you and I, we're in such a similar position in life right now. Like, I feel like we're going through.

[B]

No, it's actually wild.

[A]

Yeah, we're going through.

[B]

We're the same person.

[A]

No, we're literally the same. I always say I look at Ali and I'll be like, you and I are the same. I'm complimenting myself.

[B]

You're the best, Ali. You remind me so much. She's kidding. She's. She's kidding. I mean, Ange carries so much humility.

[A]

You do.

[B]

You're a humble being. You are. You are a humble being. You say that with all joking.

[A]

Completely joking.

[B]

So great.

[A]

No, I am complimenting myself because I want to be like her. So I'm like, you're the best. I think I'm a lot like you. Wait, you're really beautiful. Do we look alike?

[B]

Do we have the same hair color? Wait a minute.

[A]

You my twin? No, but I'm.

[B]

Yeah, we are walking through similar things. Things, though.

[A]

We are. We. Because Jesus, like, he comes in. I always say this. He gets. He's so gracious. He gets, like, the big stuff out of the way. You're, like, tearing down idols. You're removing sin. You're laying it all down, and then you're just left with you and your heart. And he's like, this is actually where the hard work begins. Not having sex anymore was actually not that big of a deal.

[B]

Yeah, this is true. Yeah.

[A]

Compared to, like, you know, tending to the deep wounds and insecurities and impurities in your heart, like, because they're so deep rooted and they're, like, ingrained in the fibers of your being. Yeah. It's crazy. And there's just, like, rewiring, and then you look at a lot of family story and you're like, yeah, it's crazy. Another day, huh?

[B]

That's a whole nother pot, I think. Yeah. How do we feel?

[A]

I feel like I. Can I come back next week?

[B]

Yeah, if you want to.

[A]

I love you, cwcoi.

[B]

Oh, we love you so much, Angie.

[A]

You guys are in such good hands here. We love our girl, truly. She is who she says she is.

[B]

Thank you, Jesus. He's the only thing that keeps me pure and keeps me the same every day. Hey, Ange, we love you so much. Thanks for being here.

[A]

Thanks for having me. I love you. Luckily, I get to see you, like, tomorrow. I know.

[B]

And the next day We've been hanging out a lot. Thank you.

[A]

She has a key to my house.

[B]

I do have a key to your house.

[A]

I'm not codependent. I just.

[B]

Same.

[A]

I just want you to move in.

[B]

I just want you to literally live in my bed with me. It's fine. I am grateful for how close the Lord has allowed us to become. Me, too. We've known each other. We have for, like, over a year now. But it's just sweet that we've been able to, like, really get to know each other more.

[A]

Well, it was just, like, the perfect timing that we look at each other, we're like, we're locking in.

[B]

Yeah. It's time you called me.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And Ash. And you said, listen. How did you say it? You were like, I. I've felt really convicted. Like, I need to. I'm going to pursue you.

[A]

I said, listen, I want you guys to know, like, this is. I'm gonna pursue you guys as friends. Like, I'm pursuing you. When you're older, you have to, like, make it a point. Like, hey, I want to make your friend. Yeah.

[B]

I love you. I love you, too.

[A]

I love that. I love that.

[B]

And I love you.

[A]

I love you guys. We love you.

[B]

Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for being here. Hey, guys, can we do something cool today?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can we show somebody how cool Jesus is today way. Let's walk more like him, talk more like him, be more like Jesus today and just spread his love and his goodness. That's what we're gonna do. Does that sound good?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Let's do that. Let's start prophesying over them.

[B]

Yeah. Lay hands on them. Do anything you prophesy over them. I love you guys. I'm so proud of you. And I will see you in the next episode.

[A]

Thanks for having me. Love you guys.

[B]

Love you.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Are some of y' all still listening? Okay, if you're still here, that means you're a real one, which is why I'm about to share this with you. If you've already caught up on all the episodes so far and you don't want to wait until next Friday for a new one, I have really good news for you. Subscribe to our Patreon to get early access to the episodes every week, early access to merch launches or any other exciting news, and receive personalized encouraging messages or Bible verses from us. Subscribe to our [e-mail] CWCOI. I do also want to mention that there is a way to give to the podcast, so if you ever feel led to donate, it blesses me so much and it helps allow the podcast to keep running. You can donate to our PayPal at www.paypal.me. cWCOI we appreciate y' all and we love you so.

[A]

So.