Podcast Summary

Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files

Episode: "2025: The year Trump ripped up the world order?"
Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Christiane Amanpour & Jamie Rubin

Episode Overview

This episode zeroes in on the seismic shifts in global affairs following Donald Trump’s return to the US presidency in 2025. Renowned journalist Christiane Amanpour and former US State Department official Jamie Rubin draw on their deep well of experience to assess "Trump 2.0," the unraveling of the so-called world order, and mounting crises—from Ukraine and European alliances to the Middle East, China, and beyond. The hosts deliver candid insights, challenging anecdotes, and their usual searing honesty to unpack why geopolitics has entered a more unpredictable, dangerous era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Foreign Policy: From Disruption to Disarray

• Loyalty Over Expertise:
  Jamie Rubin remarks that Trump’s 2025 administration differs sharply from his first term; this time it consists more of loyalists and "mind-blowing incompetence," rather than experienced professionals.

  "President Trump picked loyalists. He picked some people that are mind blowing in their incompetence." — Jamie Rubin (03:26)

• Maximum Use of Presidential Power:
  Trump is seen as wielding executive authority without precedent, making unpredictable and wide-ranging policy moves that constantly unsettle international actors.

  "He has used the powers of the presidency to their maximum degree… [throwing] asunder policies, ideas, reputations, guardrails…" — Jamie Rubin (03:36)

• ‘Sane-washing’ by the Media:
  Observers, including journalists, struggle to apply traditional logic to Trump’s chaotic moves, sometimes inadvertently giving sense and legitimacy to confusion.

  "Journalism… sometimes… do what we call sane washing. They turn things that are incompetent, incomprehensible, or off the wall into something that sounds sane." — Jamie Rubin (04:05)

2. America’s European Alliance: Undermined and Divided

• Alignment with the European Far-Right:
  Christiane recounts Vice President J.D. Vance’s shocking Munich Security Conference speech, where he criticized Europe’s mainstream leaders, aligning the US with Europe’s far-right and undermining traditional democratic values.

  "He basically castigated mainstream European allies… told them off for, quote, unquote, not respecting free speech, not respecting democracy." — Christiane Amanpour (00:06, 04:54)

• Hypocrisy in Sovereignty:
  Despite a declared emphasis on sovereignty for others, Trump actively interferes in European politics, openly pushing the continent politically rightward.

  "The Trump administration has used its foreign and national security policy to push their own politics from the right… openly and clearly intended to push the politics of Europe to the right." — Jamie Rubin (07:10)

• Economic Interests Above Policy:
  Accusations surface of Trump family and associates using government positions for personal business gains, ushering in what some call a new American oligarchy.

  "They have used foreign affairs… to turn negotiations over to businessmen… trying to make money out of American foreign policy. It’s never happened before." — Jamie Rubin (08:03)

3. Ukraine and Russia: Shifting Support, Rising Fears

• Erosion of US Backing:
  The administration draws down military aid; support for Ukraine becomes conditional on European purchases of US arms, with Trump shown to appease Putin.

  "He’s pulled support for Ukraine… And meanwhile, he’s appeased Putin by constantly giving him the benefit of the doubt… pursuing a negotiation… compared to Neville Chamberlain’s visit to Hitler." — Jamie Rubin (11:04)

• European Realignment:
  European leaders, unnerved by America’s shift, bond closer around Ukraine while fearing further Russian advances and US unreliability.
  • Memorable moment: Christiane describes the public humiliation of Zelensky in the White House, calling it unprecedented.

    "Never before has that ever happened… It’s never had a public dissing and dressing down and outright mean meanness towards a wartime ally." — Christiane Amanpour (23:37)

• Cautious Optimism:
  Despite ongoing conflict, Jamie highlights that continued European resolve could eventually bring Russia to realize the futility of the war.

  "There’s no sign whatsoever that Russia can win this war… This war is going to be a stalemate until the day… Vladimir Putin realizes he can’t win." — Jamie Rubin (25:58)

4. The Middle East: Partial Ceasefire, Problematic Peace

• Gaza and Diplomatic ‘Mini Success’:
  A temporary halt to the full-scale Gaza conflict was achieved and praised, but sustainable peace remains elusive.

  "There has been a step forward… The full fledged conflict has stopped for the moment. That doesn’t mean Gaza’s fixed… but all hostages were released." — Jamie Rubin (16:48)

• Insufficient Implementation:
  Christiane brings a critical lens to the lack of enforcement and lasting progress, with Israel and Hamas both retaining power and violence ongoing.

  "There is no enforcement, unfortunately, except by Israel because they’ve partitioned the Gaza Strip… Hamas is still entrenched." — Christiane Amanpour (18:26)

• Business, Not Diplomacy:
  Across peace “plans,” Trump’s approach is likened to real estate deals, not the nuanced art of statesmanship, seen as a fundamental and dangerous misunderstanding.

5. India, China, and Broader Realignments

• Losing India:
  Trump’s pique and punitive tariffs lead to a reversal of decades of efforts to align India with the US, nudging it closer to Russia and China.

  "Donald Trump has now thrown asunder the relationship between the United States and India… a single example of one of the most profoundly stupid things that’s happened this year." — Jamie Rubin (15:46)

• Self-Interested Strategy:
  The administration’s doctrine cedes spheres of influence to Russia and China, with minimal effort to contain either power, particularly in Latin America.

6. Case Study: Venezuela

• Legality and Logic Under Scrutiny:
  Jamie criticizes Trump’s aggressive, legally questionable war on suspected Venezuelan “narco-terrorists”—with motivations said to be domestic political, not genuine strategy.

  "What’s happened is he’s created a war against narco terrorists which he’s falsely claimed are connected to Maduro… lawyers… believe the war is illegal." — Jamie Rubin (20:59)

• Wider Implications:
  The doctrine implicitly accepts regional spheres of influence for other powers, heightening global instability.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "What foreign policy is about is what’s good for the world, what’s good for the United States. And for Donald Trump… to turn his whole foreign policy over to a bunch of political hacks because they want to push things to the right is a disgrace." — Jamie Rubin (08:14)
• "Honestly, I will never forget, I mean, they were ashen faced when they came out… [Spain’s former Foreign Minister] said, 'disgraceful.'" — Christiane Amanpour (05:38)
• "Trump Inc… they have used foreign affairs… to enrich himself and his family. It’s never happened before. I believe when the Democrats take over Congress… these things are going to be investigated." — Jamie Rubin (08:03)
• "When India refused [to credit Trump for peace], that’s what turned Donald Trump against India. Not strategy, not commercial diplomacy. He was mad at… Modi… because [he] wouldn’t nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize." — Jamie Rubin (14:36)
• "Don Jr. at the Doha Forum… told everybody that, you know, everybody’s tired of Ukraine… It’s actually—of course everybody wants to end it, but vast majorities want to see a fair peace and many believe Ukraine can win." — Christiane Amanpour (26:49)

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:06–04:54 – Opening analysis of Trump’s break from foreign policy norms; Munich Security Conference insight.
• 06:55–09:02 – US actively pushing Europe rightward; rise of “Trump Inc”, foreign policy for private gain.
• 10:31–12:05 – US policy on Russia’s war in Ukraine; European defense realignment.
• 14:36–16:32 – The India pivot—how the US-India relationship was upended.
• 16:48–18:26 – Middle East ‘mini success’ and its severe limitations.
• 20:59–22:44 – Venezuela, legality of US policy, and notions of spheres of influence.
• 23:37–26:49 – The humiliation of Zelensky, Russia/Europe/Ukraine stalemate, and cautious hopes.

Hosts’ Holiday Recommendations

(Finale, light-hearted segment; included for color)

• Jamie Rubin: Almost Famous—“It’s just brilliant… all the funny self revelation… powerful story about growing up in America in the 70s.” (29:06)
• Christiane Amanpour: The Christmas Chronicles 2—“For everyone who believes that… women really make peace and friendship and all the good things. It’s really really fun.” (29:56)

Tone and Takeaways

With sharp wit, seasoned candor, and an undercurrent of concern, Amanpour and Rubin dissect how 2025 has seen the US upend decades-old diplomatic norms and in doing so, destabilize the global order. Traditional alliances are frayed. Authoritarian and business interests are ascendant. Yet the hosts retain hope—anchored in history and civic values—that the world can rediscover a path to peace.

Useful For:
This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking a nuanced, frontline-informed narrative on the state of global affairs post-Trump’s 2025 return, with clear-eyed, experienced analysis on how today’s headlines are shaping tomorrow’s world.

Skip To:

• Trump’s Foreign Policy Chaos
• The New European Rift
• US and Ukraine, Russia’s Advantage
• India Pivot and Strategic Blunders
• Gaza Ceasefire: Success or Stalemate?
• Venezuela: Legal and Policy Quagmire
• Public Dressing Down of Zelensky
• Holiday Picks and Reflection

End Note:
"…At least I certainly do—I know you do, Jamie—that the next year, 2026, will really be focused on real peace, the hard work that is necessary to forge real and lasting peace. And I believe it can be done. So I’m hopeful there as well." — Christiane Amanpour (30:52)