← Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Q&A: MAGA’s trust in Trump, US-EU divorce & Iran's Lego fightback
00:23:37
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- [00:03]
A
This is a Global Player original podcast.
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B
All these crazy, you know, AI pictures of Trump as Jesus and then Trump being hugged by Jesus. That is incredible.
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A
There is still a large portion of our country that just trusts Donald Trump and will continue to do so.
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B
What do we do with the drunken hegseth? What do we do with the drunken hegseth? I mean, they are very clever at this. Just look at Britain, which was front and center in World War II. And Trump basically questions whether our soldiers actually were anywhere close to, you know, supporting the Americans and doing their thing during World War II. It's just, it's just heresy. Hello everyone. Here's our latest episode, the Q and A episode where we answer your questions. So it's me, Cristiana Manpura and Jamie. Let us get started. Jamie, I'm just going to go ahead and ask the first one. Emily, on Instagram, we're going to why do so many MAGA supporters still trust Trump despite his failure to improve the economy, his continued involvement in international affairs despite promising to prioritize America first, his repeated falsehoods and the worsening quality of life for many Americans? Emily, I think it's a great question. You have seen what's happening in the UK maybe where the Prime Minister is under a huge pressure because there's just been some so called midterm off cycle elections and his Labour Party has been clobbered in. Doesn't mean to say he won't be able to recoup. But people are wondering whether Trump also will get clobbered because everything you write here in your question during the midterms that come up in November and there are Quite a few MAGAs who are getting very angry with the subjects that you've just raised, particularly the foreign wars, particularly the cost of living. But there are also a lot of MAGA which is still very tight and really hanging onto him. The interesting is so some of the actual Republican Party, the broader Republican Party that's beginning to try to have a second look. Jamie, what do you think?
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A
Well, again, American politics is a tough subject for me because I've had trouble ascertaining why so much support exists for President Trump. But one thing I have learned is that there is a core base of support. What that number is varies, but it's a pretty big number. And he has their support and he's developed it over many, many years. They trust him, they believe him, they often change their views because of him. They just trust him. And that's the power of what I think we can call a populist leader who captured a view of America that many people felt they believe that he has their interests at heart. Even though, as the questioner points out, many of the things that he said he would and wouldn't do, he's done the opposite. Particularly the war in Iran, particularly the fact that the econom pricing, you know, has not been good for Americans. The tariffs, the, the trade wars, the, you know, the war in Iran, the, all of these things have not improved the economic situation. And then the MAGA base itself was always a confused base. He's changed the Republican Party. But I have to say, and I say it with, you know, just analytical lucidity, that there is still a large portion of our country that just trusts Donald Trump and will continue do so.
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B
Why don't you ask the next question
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A
Perrin on email asks, do you think Americans, politicians as well as Americans in general, really understand or care that America to a large extent has severed its ties from Europe and that Europeans no longer feel they can trust the United States?
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B
You should answer that because you're there and you're American.
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A
No, I don't think enough Americans understand how damaging the effect of our administration's policies have been on European attitudes. I think they may begin to understand it. There's no question that tourism is down. Visiting of the United States by Europeans is down. Students are less likely to come here for universities, and there's no question that in Canada and other places, Americans are starting to see and hear things they've never heard before about attitudes towards the United States. But where I think Americans don't understand enough is the effect that President Trump's policies have had on the leadership in Europe, the leadership who have now began, for the first time ever, to question whether the United States is there for its allies. That's never been true before. That's just a brand new fact. You know, I used to like to call America the indispensable nation because Madeleine Albright did not that we could do everything, but that we were indispensable to galvanize the world, to act through our alliances. And that ability to galvanize the world, I think, has been lost. We may never regain that ability because Europeans can never forget that. Twice now, Donald Trump has been elected and has made a point of, let's face it, he knows it. I'm not saying anything that isn't objectively true. He is quite insulting to the leaders of the rest of the world. He's insulting to peoples of the rest of the world. That is not a way to win friends and influence people. I don't think Americans understand the rest of the world as well as they ought to. I think they, they admire the fact that presidents have been admired, but they've never quite understood the reasons for that. And they, they feel that we've been taken advantage of. That's what Donald Trump has, has, has tapped into. I don't think that's true. We do these things for our own reason. It's in our interest to have these allies. It's in our interest to compromise with them. It's in our. Them. We've been able to prevent world wars and we've been able to be the leader who gets other countries to follow. And right now, that is not true anymore. And I think Americans need to increasingly understand that. I don't think they understand it enough.
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B
Well, they certainly do. As you said in Europe and around the world, unfortunately, America's poll ratings as a nation are plummeting. And this administration's particularly over everything, just about everything that you've just laid out. I mean, just the insulting of countries, the insult. I mean, just look at Britain, which was front and center in World War II. And Trump basically questions whether our soldiers actually were anywhere close to, you know, supporting the Americans and doing their thing during World War II. It's just, it's just heresy. You can imagine here in the UK which suffered the blitz, which did all of that stuff. So just that look at the Italians. They're livid. All over Europe, even the places historically that are the most pro American have just, it's like a dagger to their heart what's going on, and they're very, you know, upset about it. Karen is asking all sorts of relevant and important questions, particularly, you know, Europeans no longer feel they can trust the U.S. she's asking whether Americans understand that, and that's very true. Jamie, you were talking about tourism. I mean, even the hallowed World cup, this, the FIFA World cup, is not getting as many visitors as it might have done at another time. Tickets, of course, are very, very expensive. But just the idea, the onero visa requirements, the entry points, which have been, you know, people are worried about whether they're going to get the third degree at any entry point in the United States or have their, you know, devices wiped or whatever. It's really, it's, it's just an ugly situation right now. And, you know, science is being, is being limited because they won't put all these visas for some of the most important science students and professionals from around the world. It's just crazy right now. And I think most people in Europe are hoping that they can get back to a different relationship, but are sort of at the moment resigned to be living with the one that exists right now. And as you say, it just doesn't benefit America. So many students, for instance, are going elsewhere, etc. Etc. Instead of trying to get to American universities. So let me ask Steve's question via email. He wants to know, do you think the viral Lego style social media content emerging from Iran, especially given its appeal to younger audiences and the way it critiques MAGA politics, could be influencing Western public opinion or even thinking within the White House? So Jamie, I don't know. Do you know what he means that these. Iran has really played a blinder in its propaganda during this war. It's just figured out whether it's Galiboff, who's the main civilian in charge, Muhammad Barre Alibaf, or whether it's the irgc. Imagine the IRGC and the Islamic Republic of Iran has figured out very compelling memes and trollings and all the rest of it using Lego little videos. I don't know what they're thinking about it. You do.
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A
You, you're absolutely right. And, and I have looked into this a bit because it was part of my previous work at the State Department and there's some stories coming out about it and it's rather dramatic. Look, to win a propaganda war, to be able to be successful, you need some important things. You need a trusted messenger and you need allies and you need a really good reason. And then you need a consistent message that is believed. What the Iranians figured out is it's not disinformation they're using, they're using humor because they figured out that the inconsistencies between the President's statements, where one morning it's blowing up everything, the next morning it's peace is at hand, one morning the Iranians are capitulating, the next morning something else. And so the Iranians have used humor and they've used these Lego style videos to play, play on the humor that comes with President Trump's administrations inconsistency. And so it has worked in the sense that it's gotten, I'm told, through amplification by Russians and Chinese, you know, perhaps as many as a billion views, some of these things because it uses HU humor. Humor is the most effective tool to undermine an opponent when you can make fun of them successfully. That's what authoritarians hate. That's why humor against Stalin, against Mao, against all the great. And that's why President Trump hates the, the, the comics who make fun of him. Humor is the best tool to undermine support. And when that war, or the war against Iran hasn't been well supported, doesn't have allies to defend it other than the Trump admin, there are no other allies defending it. So even if you. And so none of the normal tools have been used, and that's why it's so effective.
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B
And you know what's just going through my head as you say that? So Iran is called what, the Islamic Republic of Iran. And yet its propaganda is not pointing to religious iconography and the Quran and this and that. But the US Is. From the podium, they're using all these crazy, you know, AI pictures of Trump as Jesus and then Trump being hugged by Jesus and then Hegseth talking about everything in religious terms and spouting the Bible and old and New Testaments to justify the war. That is incredible that that's the U.S. doing that and not the self declared Islamic Republic, I. E. A religious theocracy in Iran. And I must say, I don't know whether people today remember the song what Do we do with the Drunken Sail? But they put out a Lego version of that saying, what do we do with a drunken hegseth? What do we do with a drunken hegseth? I mean, they are very clever at this. And I cannot believe. And it's young people, apparently, because Iran is a very technologically sophisticated nation. So many of the tech geniuses, even in Silicon Valley, have Iranian heritage and are doing so, so well. And apparently they're doing pretty well inside Iran as well. And the IRGC is getting them to do their videos. So it's, it's pretty impressive. I do that in a, you know, in quotes.
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A
It's impressive and sad that it's working.
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B
Correct? Correct. Yeah. And the other thing is, it's causing people around the world to begrudgingly or not admire how Iran is facing this thing that's come down from two superpowers. So it's crazy.
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A
How about if I ask you the last question, madam? Why do some humanitarian crises receive sustained global mobilization and coverage while conflicts such as those in Sudan and Ethiopia struggle to maintain international focus and accountability?
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B
Well, look, it's something that I struggle all the time to, to even explain to people who ask these questions is something that I really hate. I was giving a big presentation at a big hall here in the UK and somebody at the very end stood up and asked the same question about Sudan and Ethiopia and why don't you do it? And there's you know, so much mass killing and starvation and failed states. And you know, in Ethiopia the leader actually was given a Nobel Prize a few years ago and then off, off they went to, you know, start another war. And it's just unbelievable what's happening in so many parts of the world, notably of course in Africa. And we do not pay enough attention to it. It is true that CNN does have an Africa strand. We have programming that focuses on Africa, but by and large mostly trying to show the economic movements and, and, and, and progress and other progress that is being made in some important Africa. It's a horrible fact of life in ever reduced resources and circumstances and then people at the top make decisions. And right now the two big or the three big major stories around the world is the Trump administration, the war in Ukraine, the war on Iran and maybe a little bit of China, US but these horrible, horrible bloodlettings and failed states and lack of accountability that are going on in other places such as Sudan and Ethiopia, as Jenny is asking, are being by and large ignored by us, not by the human rights community, not by the humanitarian community who spend a lot of time putting out their, you know, their, their, their, their latest updates on these places. Some of them are the worst humanitarian crises in the world. For instance in Sudan. And it's not getting enough coverage and not enough, you know, focus from world leaders who could just. I always, and I think you probably do from a government perspective. I actually do believe that the amount of concern by governments is directly related to the amount of attention by the press, particularly the TV press. I know that when the TV press is there, it just turbocharges often what governments will do to respond to these things. And I, you know, it's bad on us, it's our bad that we're not able to do as much coverage to really make a difference in these places. We should be doing it. I have no excuse for it. We should be doing it, doing it. And there are some who are doing it, but not enough. Not in the tipping point that it needs to be.
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A
I agree with, with everything you said and would only add that it's just a sad reflection of the decline of foreign news that has come about through corporate takeovers. The New York Times still tries because they're an individual company. It takes an individual with extreme company, you know, controlled by a family that believes in the soundness of news. And in the old days the leaders of, of the networks believed it was their responsibility to cover wars even if they weren't, you know, the most interesting subject they weren't news you can use, but were actually important of their own. Right. And that's how the Somalia crises, this and what you did in CNN and all the places in Africa and Bosnia and Kosovo and all of those places. Unfortunately, it's the decline of that news capability and the, the large news organizations who commitment to foreign news that has had that effect that we're talking about.
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B
I would say that's absolutely correct. And I would just say in the weeks since Ted Turner died, he was absolutely committed to telling stories around the whole world. He called us an international network, not even foreign international. And he insisted that we cover all sides of every story. But most especially he was devoted to the projection of CNN power and influence overseas by telling those stories and making the world a better place. He cared about that by making, you know, the powerful nations look and, and, and often, you know, take notice and take action and we miss that. And you know, even now CNN is split between an international network and a domestic network and more and more or less and less international news over, you know, progressive periods of times go on the CNN USA platform which is where the most powerful people in the United reside and would have an opportunity to be able to step in and help. So I do think at this time it's important to point all of that out and I'm really pleased that we had that question. And Jamie, finally this From Randall on TikTok. Let me read it. I have loved following your podcast. Thank you. Randall, over the last whole year, what do you think is the most important story or moment that you've discussed on the show at that time? Jamie, I'm putting you on the spot first. Wow.
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A
Well, it's very hard to do pick one moment. So I'm going to pick two. Look, when the war in Iran started, I think we were able to bring to bear some real knowledge because of what you've your experience in Iran, your traveler there, you're taking me there. You're having the ability to discuss all the different aspects of it and me able, I hope to explain why I thought President Trump had started the war on the back of Venezuela hoping that he could have an instant success. And so I'm going to leave it there and just say I think that was the moment when we were able to bring our unique capabilities to bear me in analyzing government decision making and particularly this administration's decision making and you able to really tell the world the truth about how difficult it was going to be to overthrow the regime and the pain and suffering that was going to be caused to the people of Iran. And you were able to do that.
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B
And what's your other one, Jamie? You said two.
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A
I've decided to leave it at that.
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B
Okay. Well, I would just say, just also to say the pain and suffering on the people of Iran is just getting exponentially worse. The economy most certainly is, is crashing, mass layoffs of people. And so for me, the fact that the initial promise was to the people of Iran, to their well being, to their liberation, this has not happened. And there's no, no public indication that it is still on the agenda of Trump and most certainly not of Bibi Netanyahu, who it's believed was the one who persuaded Trump to do this, because Trump had never necessarily before June anyway wanted to go war, go to war against Iran. But the Israelis found, or this Israeli government found a willing accomplice in this president finally after trying with so many others. So I also think that's very important moment that we've been able to bring to bear. But I also would say the, the actual work done on reporting the, you know, the whole Russia, Ukraine crisis, which is so important, especially guiding listeners and viewers through Trump's constant changing and his movement away from protecting and defending the democratic and, you know, the democratic nation of Ukraine, the independent that the United States was party to a security guarantee in 1994 that said if they gave up their nuclear weapons and all their ballistic missile for safekeeping in Russia, the United States would protect Ukraine. And it did to an extent under Biden, but it seems to have really be doing the minimum under Trump. And yet Ukraine is still in the game. And I think we've been able to explain why it's so important that Russia not get the benefits of this illegal aggression and that Ukraine is in the end the winner, that Europe is the winner, that democracy is the winner, that the rule of law and the international rules of the road are the winners. In the end, that's what we hope and that's I think, what we've tried throughout our conversations and our experience to be able to bring in this last year as well as having some fun and I think showing also, Jamie, that we have been able to do what we started by describing as our mission statement. Two people divorced now for eight years, living on different continents, have been able to discuss all this stuff, stuff in a way that has not been screaming and, you know, battling it out. And I think we've been able to show that, you know, even people who have these personal separations can actually talk in a civilized way and that not
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A
everything disagreeably weaponized agreeably and yes, occasionally
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B
disagree agreeably exactly as another podcast says. But I think most I gave them that line.
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A
They don't everything.
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B
Okay, you gave them that line and you're sticking with it. I just don't think everything has to be weaponized. I don't think everything has to be politicized. I do believe that you can actually, and we must get back to it, have intelligent, meaningful, substantive and truth based, fact based conversations to try to get us out of all the holes that we are in. That's my point and I'm sticking with it. Okay, now we can say thank you so much for listening to this Q and A episode of the X Files. If you have a question for us, you know that you can reach us on email and all major social media platforms. Our handle is at amanpourpod. Our email is amanpodlobal.com Our next episode is out on Tuesday. Remember, you know you can always listen for free on Global Player. And don't forget to subscribe to us on YouTube. You just watch all our episodes on our YouTube channel by searching Christian Amanpour presents the X Files. And this is Christiane signing out. Bye from London.
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A
Bye from New York.
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C
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A
this has been a Global Player original production.