← Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Q&A: The Epstein Files, Iran tensions & ICE at the Olympics
00:24:40
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- [00:03]
A
This is a Global Player original podcast.
- [00:10]
B
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Q and A episode of the X Files with me, Cristiana Manpour and Jamie Rubin. Remembered this is where we answer your questions. So let's get started. Jamie, you go first.
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A
All right, the first question from Ilana on email. If the US does end up carrying out military strikes on Iran, do you think any of its Western allies would join in? If not, is that because they don't feel as strongly as against the United States, does feel as strongly against the Iranian regime?
- [00:42]
B
Well, I'll try, but I think you probably know more about this. Basically, the allies have not, they didn't last time. So the last time it was just Israel and the United States. And I think the Western allies have made it clear that they are not interested in going to war against Iran. And not only that, all the allies in the region, the Middle Eastern allies, the Gulf allies, they don't want to do it either. And in fact, I, I've been quite surprised that even these people, certainly in the region who have, you know, their policy for, for decades has been to contain Iran. None of them want to see a, a, a war against Iran, another war in the Middle east, and certainly none of them plan on joining anything that the United States may have in mind.
- [01:29]
A
Yes, I think you're right about that. But I would make one amendment to it. There's a difference between conducting airstrikes and helping Israel and the region defend itself. And I think it's very important to distinguish between the. For example, back in the Biden administration, we had a glimpse of a possible future in the Middle east when Israel struck Iran and Iran began its retaliation against Israel. Think about this. Regional allies, the Europeans and the United States joined together in a defense cooperation arrangement to defend Israel against Iranian retaliation, to use their air defense systems, their aircraft and their surveillance systems all across the region. Gulf allies, Jordan, if I remember correctly, European countries like Britain and France, the United States. And that showed you what could happen if one day the Israelis finally realized that they could achieve the dream of their founders, get recognition with their neighbors and join in an alliance with the Gulf Arabs like Saudi Arabia, normalizing relations with Israel, with the uae, with Bahrain, with all of these countries, countries and the Europeans and the United States conducting a regional defense arrangement, not treaties that guarantee everything but defense arrangements that would be dramatic and would change the face of the Middle East. And those alliances could all be joined together with NATO, with our support for Asian allies, and then the west, the global west, what you might say the countries that believe in a rules based order, that believe that Russia and China shouldn't be able to invade their neighbors could all be working together. And all of that hinges on an Israeli election which will determine whether a government finally comes into power willing to make peace with the Palestinians.
- [03:38]
B
Yeah, I was going to say, you know, if you didn't say that, I was going to say, oh, that sounds really great, except it's not likely to happen because it's based on whether Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and brings itself and that whole region into, into normality. And right now it has to be said that even though Gaza sadly has fallen off the map in terms of news coverage, it is still being heavily attacked, women and children still being killed in Gaza on a regular basis by the Israelis and a huge uptick in the attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank. And now talk about laws changing in Israel to allow Israelis to actually buy Palestinian land in the West Bank. It's getting very, very, very serious over there and none of it bodes well for an eventual two states. So again, it really does depend on who wins this next election. So here's the next one. Fove on Instagram, what is your view on the NATO boss Mark Rutter's apparent efforts to curry favor with Donald Trump? Well, that's Jamie, assuming that that's what he's trying to do. How do you read it?
- [04:52]
A
Look, NATO Secretary General is a very complicated job. You have to deal with all the, you know, many, many countries in NATO, all the leaders. But Secretary general means secretary and secretary General. He works for Donald Trump. He works for all the leaders of NATO. That's his job. NATO is a group of nation states and nation states still rule the international. When a Secretary general is named, he has to understand that he is a subordinate to all of the leaders of all the countries. And I would hope that Mark Rutte is no more currying favor with Donald Trump than he is with any of the leaders. He's trying to be as diplomatic as possible to get the job done. And what's the job? I think he succeeded in one of the jobs, which is to stop the idea of Donald Trump saying he's not going to come to the defense of NATO countries. He was doing that in first term. He was talking all the time about how the crucial Article 5 of the NATO treaty in which one for all and all for one was no longer relevant. That was what Donald Trump was saying. Now has Mark Ruda probably overstated the importance of Donald Trump's getting other countries to spend more on Defense and not acknowledging that most of that defense spending increased is a function of Putin invading Ukraine. That's why these countries are doubling up their defense budgets, like Germany and other countries like Poland, building up their national defense forces and working closely with NATO. Joe Biden was doing the same thing during the invasion of Ukraine in the aftermath, getting NATO countries to spend more on defense. But is that a good diplomatic thing for a diplomat to say to give Trump credit for that? Yeah, probably. Does it irritate those who don't want to give Trump credit for things he didn't do? Yes, it irritates them. Is Mark Rutte a good diplomat? Yes, I think he's a really good.
- [06:55]
B
Diplomat and he's a good politician. You know, he, he was Prime Minister of the Netherlands for, for many years, and he has actually been called the Trump whisperer, even when he was still prime minister under Jens Stoltenberg's tenure as Secretary General. In the now famous NATO summit, the annual summit, I can't remember it was 2018 or 19, but it was one that nearly went tits up, as they say here. UK they were trying to figure out, and, and Merkel was part of it as well, how to keep Trump from walking out, how to keep NATO, you know, on track. And Rutter went to him with a figure that they'd all remembered that there was some. It's. It's a, it's called. It's. It's. I think the figure is 36% or something. Anyway, they took it to Trump and it was about how they had increased in this and that and all the rest of it, and Trump loved it, so. Yeah, but the other thing Ruta said the other day after the Greenland speec speech, Trump's rambling Greenland speech, in which he both backed off any military intervention and backed off tariffs to punish any Europeans who didn't believe in his Greenland acquisition. He backed off both those threats. But Rutter said anybody who thinks that NATO can defend itself or NATO countries without the United States are dreaming. So that's where he stands.
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A
Let me just add one other thing about Mark Ruta, because I think he deserves another two minutes. I have spent a lot of time in Europe the last few months, and Ruta gave a speech which was pretty dramatic, and it wasn't about Trump. It was about Putin. It was about saying that European countries need to start preparing for war.
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B
Yes.
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A
He talked about the importance of beginning to have civil defense, beginning to spend money on preparing themselves for the most dangerous moment since World War II. And that's got Nothing to do with Donald Trump. That's because Vladimir Putin has invaded Ukraine. And we can't go by another week without mentioning over 2 million people have been either died or wounded in that.
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B
War on both sides, most of them by the Russians. Yeah, on the Russian side.
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A
And think about that. One man has now entered the history books along the lines of the great dictators and monsters of World War II, where he's single handedly responsible for millions of people being killed or wounded because of a war that he launched thinking it would be quick and over. And his stubbornness in refusing to acknowledge that Russia can't win.
- [09:30]
B
Yes, and, and he's committing so much pain on Kiev and other, you know, Ukrainian cities this winter, trying to cause them to surrender by literally taking the coldest winter and practically shutting down the entire nation's heat supply and electricity. It's monstrous. It really is. And even Trump allegedly asked him to hold off for a week while they were having. He didn't. He just kept at it. And I would say, to be honest with you, yes, it's Putin, but it's also the lack of being able to corral Putin. And Trump has, I think, really believed that he could do it and tried to do it in a diplomatic way and tried to give Putin some respect as a leader and tried to bring him in from the cold, so to speak, only to discover that it doesn't work. And the whole time Putin is stepping up his aggression on Ukraine and his threats against the rest of Europe. So I think, you know, again, that's also fallen somewhat off the, the top line and.
- [10:28]
A
All right, let me go to question three. Question three comes from Sarah on X. What are your thoughts on the reaction to J.D. vance, Vice President J.D. vance, at the Winter Olympic Games? He was booed at the opening ceremony, apparently. And what is the purpose of bringing ICE agents to the Games instead of the Secret Service?
- [10:49]
B
Well, I know you're going to have stuff to say about this, but he was booed when his face appeared on, you know, one of those Jumbotrons. And it's unsurprising because certainly Italy has made itself very, very clear that it has resisted, at least the people, if not the government, resisted a lot of what Trump has, has been doing and very, very clearly around Minneapolis as well. What's happened in Minneapolis and other places that ICE has been deployed grabbing people off the streets. But most particularly in the deadly force that these ICE agents have used, including against American citizens, has shocked the world. And when the U.S. state Department, I, Marco Rubio and The Vice president. So the White House announced that they were bringing ICE agents for their security. It caused the Prime Minister of Italy to take it up with the United States, apparently unsuccessfully. But, Jamie, you remember that when Meline used to travel or whatever, it was State Department security, right? It wasn't ICE agents.
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A
I know they didn't exist then. But the equivalent, the vice president should get what, Secret Service? Because the President, Secret Service.
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B
But that's not ice.
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A
Right. And the Secretary of State gets what's called diplomatic security. I spent, you know, thousands of hours with those wonderful men and women. ICE is going to be a blot on the reputation of the United States domestically and internationally for a long, long time. Look, I've. I've watched carefully some of the reporting about Minneapolis. They've hired people who are basically video gamers who used to go to paintball conferences and dress up like warriors who don't have the training to. The use of force is the ultimate power given to an individual in our society. And to use force, you need to be trained. You need to understand when it's appropriate and when it's inappropriate. And there's just no question that these amateurs are using force unjustifiably, and they're using deadly force, lethal force, unjustifiably. So ICE is now the symbol of everything that's gone wrong with the Trump administration's effort to behave like a king with his own private army. And that's why ICE is so unpopular, because it is so associated now with one man and his administration. Instead of working as government officials are supposed to do for all of the people of the United States, ICE agents are supposed to take an oath to defend the Constitution, not the President's policies.
- [13:41]
B
Okay, just quickly, though, you know, what was the purpose then of bringing ICE agents?
- [13:46]
A
Why on earth is it the faintest idea? It's all politics. It's all politics, politics, politics. They are trying to divide the world between right and left, and they've picked ICE agents because ICE agents represent the right of the political system. They are trying to promote the right. Right wing in parties, but even they're right. Spending money. There's no Prime Minister, Jamie.
- [14:10]
B
The Italian Prime Minister is a. Is a. Is a. Is a political.
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A
He's not. She's not right enough for. Apparently. I don't know.
- [14:18]
B
But also, I mean, remember, ICE also. I mean, they first started, you know, lumbering onto the scene when they were snatching students off college campuses, you know, and they wear masks and hoodies. And now, of course, in Minnesota, practically, well, combat Gear. Just to note, Jamie. Yes, probably a lot of them are amateurs, but a lot of them apparently are also Iraq war vets and the others. And you know, anyway, you know, there was that, that's, that's, it's a problem.
- [14:45]
A
The Iraq War, you turn to use force in a different way. You're supposed to use force in the United States of America. There are different rules, different rules for how you use force. And, and the idea that you're having Iraq war veterans who've only learned about using force with the in a situation versus domestic situation is part of the problem.
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B
Exactly.
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A
And that's going to, they're going to, I think they're going to have to break up ICE after the Trump administration, let's hope, because they'll never get the respect that, that people who work for our government and put themselves at risk and risk their lives should get if they behave proper.
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B
Okay, Brad, on email with Kia Starmer, the British prime minister being so badly damaged by the fallout from the Epstein files, are you surprised that Trump so far seems to have gotten away without more scrutiny? So just to the Keir Starmer thing, as we are recording, Keir Starmer is probably facing one of the worst crises of his prime ministership over the fact that his hand picked ambassador to the United States, a man called Peter Mandelson, has had to, you know, give up his peerage. He's no longer a lord. He's been referred to the police. The police have raided his homes because of incriminating evidence that has come out from the latest dump of the Epstein files. You know, illustrating Mandelson's very, very close relationship with him even after he said he was no longer a friend of his. And of course not way after Epstein was, was convicted on sex trafficking charges, let's just not forget. So, Jamie, why do you think or do you think Trump has managed to get away with it with more?
- [16:37]
A
Well, yes and no. I think that the more the world focuses in America, the political world, on Epstein, the worse it is for Trump because Trump, of all the people described in all these files, was the closest friend of any of them, was described as, for a long time, his best friend. So all these other people with their relationships with Epstein and they're monstrous, many of them, but none of them have been described as any closer than Donald Trump. What I think we haven't seen yet is all the evidence about the relationship with Donald Trump and Epstein. I suspect there are still more in the files and I think the people just have to keep at it because we've seen clear evidence from people who interviewed Epstein on tape about the close personal relationship between Trump and Epstein. They were the best of friends for many, many, many years. And Donald Trump, unlike many of these others who were professors and people in the academic world, he who Epstein was as a predator, whether he knew about pedophilia and trafficking, I have no idea. But he knew who Epstein was. I mean, and many of them did. I mean, my unfortunately, you know, I've seen these quotes of people saying, bring your harem. You know, people knew now how much they knew, how much they knew about the criminality and the abuse. You know, it's possible many of them didn't know. But look, part of this is about the people of the United States mad at the elites. And Epstein represents the ultimate elite player. The elites of both party of academia, the elites in business, the elites in government, the elites in the entertainment industry. And elites are the least popular people right now. And that's no more fair than it is to group any together. There are good elites and bad elites.
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B
Well, let me tell you, we can just remember that this is a filthy, disgusting criminal enterprise. And it's grotesque. All these victims who are, you know, probably being triggered over and over again by these dumps. I don't think still enough people, you know, think about the victims first. And secondly, I am honestly, honestly, I just want to throw up when I see all the names and all the disgusting back and forth they have, you know, with, with Epstein on emails, right down to the right hand man of MBS of Saudi Arabia. I mean, I just cannot believe it. Right down to a guy who's now been hired by Barry Weiss at CBS News to be their health contributor who wrote vulgar, vile stuff about women.
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A
And as you, I hope they fire him.
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B
Oh, for God's sake. It is grotesque and it just show the triumph and the obsequiousness over the pursuit of money and fame and proximity to power. It is just disgusting. You get the next one.
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A
All right, last question for the day, a tough one. And I'll give it a try too, if you want. Jake on YouTube asks, why is the Supreme Court taking so long to decide on the tariff case and the birthright citizen case?
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B
Okay, so I'm just gonna observe that the Supreme Court has been the key enabler of President Trump and before that, candidate Trump that allowed him even to run for office for a second time. And I will also say that, you know, the, the, the, the conservative majority, many of them were appointed by Trump in his first term. Secondly, I would also say that the federal courts and other courts have really been pushing back on a lot of Trump's excesses, whether it's about the deportations, whether it's about you, these other things, including what's going on in Minnesota. And I would also say that the tariff thing, apparently they've decided. So the real question is, when are they going to publish?
- [20:55]
A
Right. Look, I'm not a lawyer, but obviously, in our country right now, our democracy will partially depend on whether the judges and the Supreme Court, one of the branches of our government, does its duty and that it's, at the first level, its duty to uphold the Constitution of the United States. And on these two questions, I don't see how it could be more clear about the Constitution's commitment that someone born in the United States is a citizen. I don't see how it could be more clear in the Constitution that the regulation of foreign commerce belongs to the Congress. It says so. And none of the decisions and none of the actions since the writing of that Constitution fundamentally changed those two explicit descriptions of the roles of Congress in regulating foreign commerce and the rights of people born in the United States. And so if this court cannot read black and white and bends over so far backward, remember, the whole thing is a monstrosity that has destroyed the Supreme Court because they used to believe in states rights under conservatives, always believed in states rights. That's how Bush v. Gore was decided. They said they believed in states rights. They weren't going to overturn Florida's decisions about how to do the elections.
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B
That was a 2000 election.
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A
Yeah. And that's because conservatives believe in states.
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B
Donald Trump anymore.
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A
And in his administration, they're now trying to claim that the government, the federal government, should run elections, even though the Constitution clearly states that states run elections. So I'm hoping in praying that someday soon, some week soon, shortly enough, the court will read black and white. They'll find a way to appease Trump, because that's what they do now. They care more about their relationship with the president than their relationship with history and judicial history. They've humiliated themselves in being acquiescent to Trump. But they are judges. They are there for life. And some of them, Republicans particularly, have shown a substantial independence and bravery, and I believe they will do so well.
- [23:15]
B
Let's just also not forget that if they do come down and read black and white, as you say, they will have to say that Trump's tariff executive order is unconstitutional, and that throws his entire economic plan into the dustbin. And then on birthright citizenship I assume it's because of Steve Miller and it goes to the heart of their immigration or deportation policy. So I think yeah, those are good questions and we're all waiting to see frankly, particularly on the tariffs because they keep saying they're doing it. They're doing every day we say, oh, tomorrow stand by, CNN will bring you live coverage of the tariff decision and it never happens. Jamie, that's it for now. So everybody thank you for listening to the QA episode Q and A episode of the X Files. If you have any questions for us, we really love to hear from you. We love to answer your questions questions the best we can. And you know, you can find us on all major social media platforms. Our handle is at amanpourpod. Or you can email us our addresses amanpoolpod global.com goodbye from London for now.
- [24:17]
A
And goodbye from New York.
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B
Bye bye.
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A
This has been a global player original production.