← Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Q&A: The future of MAGA, life after Trump, and the FIFA Peace Prize
00:23:16
Loading summary
Transcript41 lines
- [00:03]
A
This is a Global Player original podcast.
- [00:10]
B
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Q and A episode of the X Files with me, Christiana Manpour in London and.
- [00:17]
A
Jamie Rubin in New York City.
- [00:18]
B
And of course, this is where we answer your questions. So let's get started.
- [00:22]
A
It's Rachel on Instagram. Many hope for a return to normalcy after the Trump presidency. What do you believe a post Trump world will look like? Do you believe the political divide he's deepened, the mistrust in scientific expertise and free press he's sown. And the damage brought to America's international credibility will prove irrevocable?
- [00:44]
B
Okay, So I obviously hope not that it will not be irrevocable, because I think there is a lot of damage and in my own business, which is the free press, a lot of damage. Although there's a lot of great reporting still going on. But the whole corporate structure has been terribly influenced. Look, I think all I can say is, who knows? I think that everybody had the same concerns or everybody of a certain type had similar concerns during Trump 1.0. And actually you did see that with a new American president, Joe Biden, who came in and reverted to the traditional position of the United States. A lot of bipartisanship, a lot of strengthening of allies, putting the US Back into the climate accords, didn't manage with the Iran nuclear accord, but basically tried to relay the table and then showed actually what allies can do when Russia invaded Ukraine and, you know, Biden gathered the world. But I would say that 2.0 has been faster, deeper, more radical than anybody believed on every single issue. And it's been more softly, softly than anybody would have thought, even on issues like China and Russia. But it's really gone crazy radical in dissing and ditching traditional allies and making it really, really hard for allies to even know which way is up. Corporations are bending and bowing. The media, corporations are bending and bowing, as I say, not the actual journalists. I think we're doing a really great job, at least those of us who belong to legacy organizations who believe in the mission of facts first and telling the truth and investigative reporting second, still doing it. Late night comedians still doing it, even though the direct threat to them. So I think it's going to be hard this time, and I think it's much more organized this time, Jamie. You can, you can, you know, weigh in, obviously, because you're there. But I think the group that Trump has around him this time are much more ideological and much more all singing from the same hymn sheet than they did in 1.0.
- [02:56]
A
I agree with all of that. It will not be possible to return to the strength, to the respect, admiration and fear of the United States that existed prior to Donald Trump's presidency. The first time and now the second time. America's credibility has been shattered. Now I think we can rebuild it to a degree. But I think Europeans, Asians, other countries around the world have to deal with, deal with the fact for a long time to come that they don't know whether a president will be elected who will just throw out the rulebook, throw out the NATO treaty, throw out the commitment of the United States to support democratic values and support their allies. And that has some positives and some negatives. The positive is it's forced European countries and Asian countries to spend more and care more and do more for their own defense. And that's a good thing for everybody. But the downside is that the United States has been a unique power in the world. Not because only of its hard power, the way Rome had or the way Britain had, but because of its alliances. That's what made America unique. We have alliances all over the world. We have basing rights, we have relationships that no other country in the history of the world has ever had. Those alliances have been weakened and alliances are, in the end are based to a degree on the trust that countries have and the confidence they have that their partners will be there for them. Trump has damaged that and I don't know if we can ever quite return it. The real question of how bad it will be after Trump is a political question. Will the Republican Party follow the Trumpian version of American foreign policy? Remember the Republicans under George Bush, the so called neoconservatives believed something very, very different than Donald Trump. They would have been focused on China and Russia. They would have been focused on America, leading the and doing more around the world, promoting democracy around the world. That wing of the Republican Party has been damaged. Now I think the battle will be between Marco Rubio and J.D. vance. Those will be the two leading lights of the Republican Party. If J.D. vance takes over and that becomes the Republican view of the world, then Donald Trump's legacy will last far longer. If Marco Rubio becomes the legacy of the Republican Party, he was much more of a classic conservative, even neoconservative view on China, Russia. Recently I saw him interviewed when he was a chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee just a few months before he became Secretary of State. And he was a remarkably effective and compelling man. And everyone in the audience during the movie was like, where is that Marco Rubio. So that's one possible future for the Republican Party. And then to me, what's even more important is what will the Democrats take away from the Trump administration? Will they apply the sort of isolationism that Donald Trump has made part of America first, there are isolationist tendencies in the Democratic Party. They're the isolationist tendencies that want to see the United States retreat from the world, that want to see the defense budget cut in half, that want to not worry about Ukraine, not worry about China, let other countries deal with them themselves. And some of that we've seen come out in recent months and years. And some of that may infect the Democratic Party. And I hope not. I hope our next standard bearer is someone does what Joe Biden did successfully in the first year of his term, which is to restore the alliances, to restore the trust, restore the respect the United States has for its allies. But so the true answer will come in what comes after Trump. It depends. The sooner we get rid of Trump's all Republican government. Remember, it's a very unique time. The Supreme Court, the Congress, the House, the Senate and the presidency all in these hands. And next year there's going to be a big election direction in our country and maybe we'll see the direction turn.
- [07:11]
B
Yeah. And actually the numbers don't look great for Trump right now. His approval rating, as they as it explained, held steady for quite a long time, but it's starting to sink on many issues, notably the economy. And he's also, by the way, Jamie, I don't know what this is about, but he keeps falling asleep in these meetings, you know, these big cabinet meetings that are televised. You know, all this Sleepy Joe stuff he used to say about Biden. There's a lot of Sleepy dawn stuff going on right now. But anyway, how do you see the future of the MAGA movement in a post Trump America? We are seeing the first visible cracks in its unity. At the same time, will the Democratic Party under its current leadership be strong enough to build a lasting majority or are both parties entering a period of uncertainty? Well, I don't know, Jamie, you're going to have to take that one. And I can talk a little bit about parties on this side.
- [08:00]
A
Look, the MAGA movement make America great again. And who could be against that? You know, I'm for America being as great as possible, too. But that had a mixture of people from all strains in the United States. And it is cracking. It's cracking because of tariffs. It's cracking because of the Epstein controversy. It's cracking because of the brutality of firing people and using this Laura whatever her name is, to get people fired, Loomer fired. So the MAGA movement is cracking. That happened demonstrably when they voted to release the Epstein files, and Trump couldn't stop that. And I think America stood up in a way during the Jimmy Kimmel incident, which we talked about. I think in a way, that was the beginning of the end of the Trump domination, because the country responded to this failed decision on the part of Disney to pull him, and the country demanded his return, and he was returned, and there were no consequences. So I think the MAGA movement is in trouble. The, the economy is in trouble. And I think that's going to have real political. You know, the Trump administration had a terrible day, and last Election Day, the Republicans lost all over the country. But the questioner asks about the future of the Democratic Party and its current leadership, and it ain't in great shape. I have to admit that, that there is no obvious leader of the Democratic Party. I think the next important leader is going to be Hakeem Jeffries, because I believe will take the House back.
- [09:41]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [09:43]
A
Because he'll be speaker of the House and probably not take the Senate back. So he'll have the poll position for the Democrats. I know him a bit. I have a lot of respect for him. He's been a very careful leader of the Democratic Party. And we'll see, you know, what happens to the, the House. Remember, one thing that's going to happen is if the House goes Democratic, there are going to be some investigations the likes of which you've never seen before. And remember this whole question that we.
- [10:10]
B
Have sound like Trump.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah.
- [10:13]
B
The likes of which you've never seen before.
- [10:15]
A
Well, this is real. And Trump's language is appropriate here. There's something called Trump Inc. It's the way in which Donald Trump and his family and his friends have used the presidency to enrich themselves in way that's never happened before, in a way the Constitution was designed to prevent. That is going to be investigated by the Democratic Congress when the Democrats come back to power. And we're going to find stuff out like we've never seen before in terms of billions of dollars being thrown around that affects national policy, that affects international affairs, and I think it's going to be very dramatic. There's not anything Republicans can do once the Democrats take the House. That's going to tell us a bit about the leadership of the, of the Democratic Party. But the real question will be the, the election next November, how successful Are the Democrats and then do we find a standard bearer? And where does that standard bearer come from in the Democratic Party? Is it, you know, the likes of Mamdani? Is it the likes of a, of a moderate Democrat? I am in favor of a moderate Democrat because I believe our country won't vote for a left wing member of the Democratic Party as president. We need a moderate, we need a centrist, we need an authentic. The Democrats have a great message. What they need is a messenger who's authentic and who connects to the American people. I'm waiting to see who that's going to be and that'll tell us a lot.
- [11:41]
B
Yeah. And I think we shouldn't discount the massive strength if they stay involved and engaged of Gen Z. You know, I mean, it's all over the world. It's not just in the United States where they showed themselves very powerful in these last elections. It's all over the world. But in terms of maga, the UK faces its own MAGA potential, which is called reform. It's the inheritors of the Brexit party led by Nigel Farage and his and his cohort. And they're still getting a little bit, in my view of sort of kind of a soft ride here in the UK and the press because I don't know, everybody's afraid of taking it, you know, being actually factual and strong about what we're reporting on and truthful. You know, these are the people who brought the United Kingdom. It's crappy economy now because, you know, obviously Covid was, was part of it, but we had a very strong economy, top of the G7 or EU or whatever it was until MAGA happened.
- [12:39]
A
Sorry.
- [12:39]
B
Yeah, well, maga, yeah, Brexit and, and now you've got Trump and his people in the White House empowering reform, empowering the Marine Le Pen and her far right party and the, you know, AFD and all those parties who J.D. vance talked about in Munich and actively supported and who they've doubled down on now in, in their new National Security Doctrine. They literally, the wording in the National Security Doctrine basically says something about we're going to challenge or work work to confront or whatever the mainstream European parties. That means governments in office, Right. Who are allies of the United States. It's a very bizarre, you know, out and out headlong bringing MAGA around the world. And I'm sure that's very, very welcome to Steve Bannon as well, who tried it before and country said, no, we can't have your political interference here in Europe. And he had to go back. But now we don't know what's going to happen. So I think that's MAGA is coming to Europe potentially.
- [13:46]
A
I know some people won't agree with me, but I honestly believe that the Syria refugee crisis which swept into Europe because of the cascade of refugees connected to Brexit.
- [14:00]
B
I agree with you.
- [14:01]
A
I was living with you in London and the immigration issue drove the people of Britain over the top to vote for Brexit. And so had Syria not imploded and those refugees not landed on the shores of Greece and Italy, the Brexit forces probably wouldn't have won that terrible victory. And Germany caused so much and Germany.
- [14:25]
B
Anyway, just one thing though, important since you've mentioned that a whole new raft of data came out recently that this new reform party that is the inheritors of Brexit are constantly raising what is, you know, basically a ghost, you know, immigration, immigration, immigration. Apparently it has plummeted immigration since, you know, over the last couple of years. There isn't the same the actual facts to match what reform are saying about immigration into the uk but it's a very easy cudgel to bludgeon people with. And if we're not going to put out the facts, well, you know, it's going to be, it's going to be a hard battle to keep on the straight and narrow.
- [15:13]
C
Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10.
- [15:47]
A
So Alex on Instagram asks the following what do you think about FIFA awarding Trump a peace prize? Was it done to appease him? Especially given his threats to ban countries from attending and to move games from Democrat run cities to Republican run.
- [16:04]
B
Oh God, is that true? I mean, I know that Infantino gave the prize. I mean, look, for me it's like bending the knee all over again. And they're pretty good at it. FIFA, you know, they go all over the place and they have to make deals with all sorts of, you know, potentially unpalatable regimes. You know, in Russia, I mean, you could just name a number of places, but It's a bit much. I mean, Trump wants the prize. I think it was a joke. He wants the Nobel Peace Prize, but, you know, old FIFA gave it to him. Maybe they'll get a good World cup because they really need it. And I think the question about what the atmosphere is going to be like and where the games are going to be played is really important because a lot of people coming from overseas or who want to come from overseas, I mean the World cup is the holy grail, are quite afraid. You know, they have seen the unwelcome mat that has been put out by the Trump administration, you know, in general to foreigners and particularly to foreigners from certain countries now, an increasing number of countries. So I think there's a lot that people are concerned about, including what's going to happen when I arrive at the airport. What are they going to say? Are they going to look at my phone? Are they going to wipe this? Are they going to wipe that, scrape this, that and the other. And I think you're finding already, you know, Jamie, that international certainly European tourism to the United States is down very, very significantly. And by the way, vice versa. There's a lot of Americans coming over to the UK and to Europe. But yeah, it's. We'll see. But I don't know about this shift from Democrat run cities to Republican. Have you heard that?
- [17:44]
A
No, I haven't. First, let me say that I kind of understand why people want to appease the president of the United States to give him sort of nice things that he cares about that don't really matter that much. I don't think the Nobel committee is ever going to give him a Nobel Peace Prize. I just don't think that will ever.
- [18:04]
B
Happen unless he gets a just peace between Russia and Ukraine adjust fees.
- [18:10]
A
If he does, I would be for it. I still don't think they're going to give it to him. But that doesn't.
- [18:14]
B
And between Israel and Palestine, not happy with that.
- [18:16]
A
All of them would justify a peace prize. And let's have that happy problem to worry about. But look, Donald Trump cares about publicity and one of his great skills is to be part of whatever the latest thing is. We saw that with Mamdani, where he had a surprisingly good meeting with him. FIFA, the World cup is a big deal around the world. Trump loves things like that. I suspect he'll order his people to do all they can to deal with it. But so much of the damage has already been done in terms of the reputation of the United States, the immigration service. Look, it wasn't in great shape before Donald Trump. Remember, we had problems once when you came through years ago when I was in the bloody government. So the immigration service needs to do a better job of making foreigners feel welcome as visitors and to stop this use of ice in this terrible way. The stories are just frightening and hair raising the way in which they're misusing ice to capture people who aren't criminals. And we find out that none of, you know, tiny percentage of the people picked up actually have criminal records, despite what the government says about this. So the weaponization of government by Donald Trump has done untold damage to the reputation of the United States in ways that we'll never fully understand in terms of the minds of people around the world. I just hope it's reversible and I hope that FIFA it comes off successfully and frankly, I don't care if they give him a bloody prize.
- [19:44]
B
Yeah, and I really hope the Beautiful Game has a beautiful World cup in the United States and by the way, a couple of games in Mexico, some in Canada. So, you know, it has all the ingredients of being a wonderful, wonderful event. Let's hope it is. I'm reading this next one. It's Candance on email. How and when can a member of the armed forces refuse an unlawful order without retribution? And who would be charged for giving and following an unlawful order? Jamie?
- [20:12]
A
Well, this is a highly technical legal question and I understand it a bit, but not completely. Look, the military code of justice is shown and given and inculcated into the armed services and they're told not to follow illegal or unlawful orders. That means all of them, from the top to the bottom, and they should not face retribution. Would they face retribution? That's a different question. And that's a question of the culture of the military, the culture of the particular unit, the culture of the service and the culture, political culture that's going on at the time. Clearly there's some terribly difficult decisions being made right now that caused the regional commander, the commander of the region, to resign. We think may have had something to do with this. There's a lot of people been fired by the military. Pete Hegseth has damaged, done untold damage to the United States military by politicizing it, by being an ineffective and dubious and frankly, laughable leader. When these generals had to go sit there, listen to him, give them, give him speeches about what it is to be a warrior when he never really fought in a proper way.
- [21:27]
B
And weight loss, Jamie.
- [21:29]
A
I mean, it's just nonsense. It's completely sad that one of the great institutions of our country has been so damaged by the likes of Pete Hegseth. The big question here, of course, is the legality of the whole conduct of the war against Venezuela. We talked about that in the main episode. We're going to continue to talk about it because unfortunately the President has made this a dominant question in our foreign policy. Even though there are better ways to achieve our objectives in Venezuela, to order the murder or killing of people in the water who are survivors is just horrifying. I think that is an illegal order, but I'm not a lawyer.
- [22:12]
B
This is all and they say they didn't give it.
- [22:15]
A
Well, we'll see. And this is all being looked into. Finally, Republican congressmen and senators are caring as much about it as Democrats. There's been some very brave Democratic leaders, former members of the military and the intelligence community stood up and done a very powerful message to the military not.
- [22:33]
B
To follow illegal orders just to wrap up not just abroad but also at home. You know, some of that stuff that National Guard are being told to do anyway, just warning them, don't do it if it's not lawful. That's it for this episode. Hope everybody enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to the Q and A episode of the X Files with me, Christiana Monpour and Jamie Ruin. Of course, if you have a question for us at any time, do please find us on all the major social media platforms. Our handle is at amanpourpod or email us. We're amanpourpodlobal.com and our next episode will be on Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcast, remember you can listen for free on Global Player. You can download that from the App Store or go to globalplayer.com you can also watch all our episodes, the main ones and the bonus Q&As on YouTube. Just search Christian Amantor Presents and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And on that note, bye Jamie.
- [23:33]
A
Goodbye again from New York City.
- [23:41]
C
Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best Plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10.
- [24:12]
A
This has been a global player original production.
- [24:17]
C
Your pet is your bestie, your therapist, your perfect match. It's easy to love them. It's easy to protect them Insurance coverage from Pets Best because it's all fun and games until they chew on something they shouldn't and you get a vet bill to match. With perfect timing, Pets Best helps protect your furry friend and your budget from this imperfect world. Get up to 90% cash back on eligible vet bills from less than a dollar a day. Pets Best has plans to cover accidents, injuries and more, from puppies and kittens to seniors. Find your Perfect Match plan and get a quote@petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC. $1 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10.