Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Episode: Q&A: Will Trump ever match Bill Clinton's global leadership?
Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Christiane Amanpour & Jamie Rubin
Podcast: The Ex Files (Global)
Episode Overview
In this special Q&A episode of The Ex Files, Christiane Amanpour and her ex-husband Jamie Rubin—both veterans of global affairs—field probing questions from listeners about today’s most urgent international topics. Drawing on decades of firsthand reporting and policy experience, they reflect on the challenges facing journalism and diplomacy, the evolution of global threats, the impact of public opinion on foreign policy, and the changing nature of American leadership. Their discussion is candid, nuanced, and often personal, offering both historical context and sharp commentary on present dilemmas.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Underreported Stories Shaping the World
Timestamps: [01:03]–[03:52]
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Christiane Amanpour: Highlights poverty, inequality, migration, and especially the climate crisis as severely underreported stories, noting:
“It's almost like there's so much going on right now that we've forgotten the one huge event that is shaping the world…” [01:26]
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Jamie Rubin: Traces the evolution of global threats (“my eras tour”):
- 1980s: Nuclear weapons
- 1990s: Ethnic conflict (e.g. Bosnia, Kosovo)
- 2000s: Terrorism post-9/11
- 2010s: Climate change, Covid
- Current Era: Information warfare, particularly with the rise of AI and disinformation—“the newest threat of our time.”
“We still have nuclear weapons, we still have ethnic conflict… but in the 2000s and this is why I was hired by the US government, I think information warfare is the newest threat in our time.” [02:46]
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On Good News: Christiane points out the lack of coverage of solutions and hopeful stories contributes to public apathy.
2. Can Public Opinion Still Shape Foreign Policy?
Timestamps: [04:44]–[09:10]
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Jamie Rubin: Argues leaders like Trump, Putin, and Xi may want to shape the world unilaterally, but the reality is democratic governments dominate, requiring public support for lasting policy.
“The short answer is that some leaders would like to think they can decide everything. But…the realities of democratic governance mean that can't happen without the support of the people.” [05:42]
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Christiane Amanpour: Emphasizes the power of “global public opinion,” citing support for Ukraine as an example where widespread sentiment moved governments.
“Public opinion can actually work as a mover of the dial...[The ‘CNN effect’] did move the dial and it caused governments to take action.” [06:22]
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Role of Journalism: Jamie recalls that Christiane’s coverage (and others like John Burns for NYT) forced the world to confront Bosnia, influencing President Clinton’s actions and highlighting how media can be a catalyst for intervention.
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Failures: Christiane discusses the media’s absence in Rwanda as a critical failure, allowing genocide to occur with little global intervention.
3. Speed vs. Accuracy in Journalism
Timestamps: [10:12]–[15:03]
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Christiane Amanpour: Admits pressure to be first can compromise accuracy, but legacy outlets strive to correct mistakes publicly.
“The good thing about most journalism that is legacy journalism... is that we do issue corrections when we are wrong.” [10:51]
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Jamie Rubin: Shares an anecdote about how instant news in the State Department era left officials scrambling for up-to-date information, sometimes leading to on-the-spot statements—not always accurate.
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Memorable Moment: The “Talmudic” story, where a misattributed word nearly caused a diplomatic scandal, but the transcript exonerated Jamie and led to a rare moment of vindication.
4. Censorship vs. Apathy: What’s More Worrisome?
Timestamps: [15:04]–[19:23]
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Christiane Amanpour: Condemns censorship—including “auto censorship”—as a global threat to democracy, but also notes it breeds public apathy.
“Censorship is an evil, evil thing...I would say the censorship of not being allowed to go to a war zone...is really worrying...that also can lead to apathy.” [15:10]
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Jamie Rubin: Expands on censorship as a form of “information warfare”—where disinformation and selective reporting (notably by state actors like China) can shape perceptions worldwide.
“What [the Chinese] do is they fill the news with only good things about China...It gets laundered by local journalists...but the news is all Chinese and all good news about China.” [18:12]
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Anecdote: Christiane remembers Iraqi media crowing about the 1992 LA riots, using U.S. unrest for government propaganda.
5. Can the US Still Lead by Example?
Timestamps: [21:27]–[26:18]
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Christiane Amanpour: Voices disappointment that the U.S. is “forfeiting so much of its moral authority”—especially by undermining free speech protections.
“I think that that is something that's being wantonly wasted and unfortunately giving a lot of aid and abetting all those kind of dictators…and illiberal Democrats…” [21:52]
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Jamie Rubin: Defends the idea of the U.S. as “the indispensable nation,” emphasizing its unique capacity to catalyze international action when it leads by example—not just by force.
“Without the United States leading, nothing good's going to happen in all likelihood.” [22:40]
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Information Warfare: Rubin discusses efforts to form coalitions identifying the sources of disinformation, focusing on transparency rather than government censorship.
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Disagreement: Christiane pushes back, noting current failures of U.S. leadership on Israel/Palestine and Russia/Ukraine, illustrating that U.S. leadership is not always synonymous with positive outcomes.
6. Diplomacy and Truth in a Fractured World
Timestamps: [26:18]–[30:06]
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Audience Question (Katie): What gives you hope that truth and diplomacy can prevail?
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Christiane Amanpour: Points to the persistence of reliable news outlets and the viewer’s responsibility to seek out trustworthy information.
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Jamie Rubin: Looks back at the Clinton era’s use of “force and diplomacy,” arguing America’s power is best wielded when it wins both respect and admiration—not just fear.
“What he [Clinton] put in place and it's never really been done again properly, was what I would call limited force working in conjunction with diplomacy to achieve an objective. And that's what the Dayton Peace Accords were. That's what we did in Kosovo…” [28:42]
7. Sustaining Hope Amid Global Crisis
Timestamps: [31:10]–[35:00]
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Audience Question (Freya): How do you stay hopeful?
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Christiane Amanpour: Finds optimism in stories of human resilience, such as cross-cultural cooperation and small acts of bridge-building (e.g., Israeli-Palestinian dialogue), and inspiring nature and science documentaries.
“I get very hopeful when I talk to...an Israeli and a Palestinian together who will say publicly...how to work together to achieve a future.” [32:30]
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Jamie Rubin: Draws hope from post-conflict reconciliation in Rwanda and the transformation of Germany after WWII—evidence that societies can overcome immense darkness.
“When you see human beings able to do that, that's optimistic.” [33:45]
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Christiane Amanpour: Invokes Nelson Mandela’s decision not to take revenge and the Northern Ireland peace process as proof that individuals and communities can choose the harder, better path.
Notable Quotes
On the “Eras Tour” of Global Threats:
“My people who used to work for me used to call it my eras tour, playing off Taylor Swift…the eras of nuclear warfare, ethnic conflict, climate change, terrorism, and now information warfare.”
— Jamie Rubin [03:13]
On Public Opinion and the ‘CNN Effect’:
“It was the pretty united and almost unanimous feelings about the Ukrainians by people all over…the United States, all over Britain, all over Europe and other places that actually got their governments to go into helping Ukraine. So I think that is very, very important.”
— Christiane Amanpour [06:20]
On Censorship and Apathy:
“Censorship is an evil, evil thing...and I think, to be honest with you, that also can lead to apathy…”
— Christiane Amanpour [15:10]
On U.S. Leadership:
“Without the United States leading, nothing good's going to happen in all likelihood. And so when the United States did finally engage on Bosnia and Kosovo...things happened. That's what it means to be the indispensable nation.”
— Jamie Rubin [22:40]
On the Power of Human Reconciliation:
“And despite the fact that they knew that they had killed each other...Tutsi women and men forgiving their murdering members of the Hutu ethnicity...when you see human beings able to do that, that's optimistic.”
— Jamie Rubin [33:34]
On What Gives Hope:
“People who do stand up and risk everything to be counted, including going against their own tribe...that gives me a lot of optimism.”
— Christiane Amanpour [35:00]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Underreported stories: 01:03–03:52
- Public opinion & foreign policy: 04:44–09:10
- Speed vs. accuracy in journalism: 10:12–15:03
- Censorship vs. apathy: 15:04–19:23
- US as global leader: 21:27–26:18
- Truth & diplomacy: 26:18–30:06
- Sources of hope: 31:10–35:00
Tone and Dynamic
The conversation is reflective, honest, and laced with personal history and lived experience. Both hosts are unguarded about their disappointments (especially regarding US democratic backsliding and failures of intervention) but remain staunch advocates for the power of journalism, truth, and diplomacy. There is a blend of gravitas, rueful humor, and hope, characteristic of two professionals who have seen both the worst and the best in global affairs.
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