Podcast Summary: Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files

Episode: Why is Trump trying to make Ukraine sign a "surrender document"?
Air Date: November 25, 2025
Hosts: Christiane Amanpour (London), Jamie Rubin (New York)

Episode Overview

This episode probes the recently leaked "peace plan" for Ukraine, which the hosts both denounce as a de facto surrender document dictated by Russia. Drawing on their backgrounds in journalism and diplomacy, Amanpour and Rubin dissect shifting U.S. (especially Trump administration) strategies toward the Ukraine-Russia conflict, the role of aggressive realpolitik, and escalating concerns over tech industry influence in global and American policies. Their discussion often pivots to the broader themes of appeasement, U.S. credibility, and the dangers of deal-making disconnected from principle or expertise.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The So-called "Peace Plan" – Surrender or Solution?

• Christiane Amanpour expresses outrage at the leaked 28-point "peace plan," labeling it "all Russian dictated" and "a complete Neville Chamberlain's class appeasement and a sellout and demand for capitulation" ([01:23]).
• Jamie Rubin contextualizes the U.S. shift: "Europe, Ukraine are united in rejecting the idea that Russia should gain from its aggression and... Ukraine should capitulate. The United States doesn't seem to care under President Trump and just wants a deal. A deal, as they say, at any cost." ([05:23])
• Both hosts stress the Russian "maximalist" approach—no change in war aims since 2022. Demands include forcing Ukraine to shrink its army, bar NATO cooperation, and surrender even territories Russia does not currently control ([01:35]).

2. Trump’s Approach to "Peace Deals": From Afghanistan to Russia-Ukraine

• Amanpour reviews the patterns: Trump's previous "deals" (Afghanistan, Gaza/Israel) excluded key stakeholders—in Afghanistan, "negotiated only with the Taliban" and "ended up giving Afghanistan back to the Taliban" ([05:54]).
• Rubin says: Trump's deals are "not so simple," likening his methods to real estate transactions, treating peace as "splitting the difference," which is not applicable in real-world conflict resolution ([14:51]).
• Memorable quip:
  • Amanpour: "This is literally deal making and peace negotiating put on… turned on its head." ([07:31])

3. Ukrainian and European Resistance – Willingness to Compromise?

• Rubin notes: Ukraine is "willing to make some hard choices, if they are what I would call fair and just hard choices," such as a potential freeze in place—but not on Russian terms ([07:57]).
• The hosts outline how Ukraine and its allies use diplomatic flexibility to avoid worsening their position under Trump, while highlighting that, ironically, Russia may end up refusing if Ukraine insists on sovereignty basics ([08:33]).
• On the futility of peace talks without ceasefire: Amanpour notes, "The sine qua non for any ceasefire, any peace is a ceasefire. There's not even a ceasefire. It's not even being discussed..." ([15:52])

4. The Reality on the Battlefield & Sanctions

• Economic pressure: Rubin emphasizes keeping and tightening sanctions as shipping and financial restrictions begin to "pinch" Russia, noting Trump's rare positive move to sanction major Russian oil companies ([10:55]).
• Military situation: Ukraine "doing the fighting and dying" with immense resilience, but facing a "morale problem," being outmanned, and mired in corruption scandals ([18:35]).
• Both identify that Russia's calculations are supported by Chinese-supplied drone technology, with China "all in for Russia" ([11:53], [19:53]).

5. Why Does Trump Seem to Fluctuate on Russia?

• Amanpour wonders: How does the U.S. President "keep shifting his views on Russia?" ([10:09])
• Rubin’s take: Motivation is less relevant than results; "Trump really thinks that the world is run by three people, him, Putin, and Xi Jinping... [but] the world isn't that simple." ([12:15])

6. Global Affairs through a Mercantile Lens – Are "Tech Bros" Taking Over Policy?

• The second half transitions to concerns about the growing, unchecked influence of tech billionaires—the so-called "tech bros"—in the U.S. and global politics ([24:06]).
• Amanpour describes Trump’s policy approach as "very, very, very mercantile and mercenary," with policymaking increasingly driven by money, not principles ([23:54]).
• Rubin warns: "The danger here is ... these two fields in which they are so powerful, the social media world and the artificial intelligence world... can change our world for the better or for the worse." He likens their unchecked power to "pollution" of democracy ([24:06], [25:14]).
• On regulation, Rubin quotes Macron: “Why have we handed our public square in Europe to Chinese companies and to American tech bosses? What have we done?" ([25:32])
• Both indicate that meaningful regulatory action is likely to come from Europe, not from Trump’s administration.

7. U.S. Foreign Policy – Money, Tariffs, and "Luxury Diplomacy"

• Amanpour raises the issue of foreign and corporate money flowing to U.S. politicians, citing "luxury diplomacy" and the reduction of tariffs in exchange for gifts ([28:21]).
• Rubin laments: "The Constitution was created specifically to prevent kings and royals from making decisions based on... whether they liked somebody or whether that someone gave them money. And now our constitution has been so manipulated by president Trump..." ([29:09])
• Both stress the looming Supreme Court case about presidential power to set tariffs—Rubin: "This is the big one. Does Trump have the power to make deals around the world based on whim or whatever the hell he wants?" ([30:26])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Christiane Amanpour (On Trump’s peace plan):
  • "I don't know what idiots they take us to be or what idiots they take the United States to be or the Ukrainian people..." ([01:23])
• Jamie Rubin (On the real cost of Trump’s approach):
  • "Europe, Ukraine are united in rejecting the idea that Russia should gain from its aggression... the United States doesn't seem to care under President Trump and just wants a deal. A deal, as they say, at any cost." ([05:23])
• On the tech industry’s influence:
  • Rubin: "Why have we handed our public square in Europe to Chinese companies and to American tech bosses? What have we done?" ([25:32])
• On the persistent reality of the war:
  • Amanpour: "The sine qua non for any ceasefire, any peace is a ceasefire. There's not even a ceasefire. It's not even being discussed between Russia and Ukraine." ([15:52])
  • Rubin: "Putin wants to subjugate UKRA [Ukraine] to make it effectively part of the greater Russia. That is not going to happen. Ukrainians aren't going to stand for it." ([09:08])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Context-Setting: [00:08] – [01:12]
• Dissection of the "Peace Plan": [01:23] – [05:42]
• Trump’s Track Record on “Peace”: [05:42] – [07:45]
• Ukraine and Europe’s Diplomatic Tactics: [07:45] – [09:33]
• Economic & Military Pressure on Russia: [09:33] – [13:13]
• European Reaction, Russian Interlocutors: [13:13] – [15:57]
• Why Peace Remains Elusive: [15:57] – [18:35]
• Ukrainian Struggles and Corruption Issues: [18:35] – [20:42]
• China’s Role, Futility of Pressuring Xi: [20:42] – [22:31]
• Transition to Tech Bros & U.S. Politics: [23:16] – [27:52]
• Tariffs, Luxury Diplomacy & Rule of Law: [28:21] – [30:39]

Recommendations Segment

• Jamie Rubin:
  • Martin Scorsese Documentary Series — Celebrates the filmmaker’s rise, struggles, and impact. Rubin also recommends "The Complete Essays of Montaigne" as an all-time favorite audiobook ([31:32]).
• Christiane Amanpour:
  • Documentary "Coexistence My Ass" by Noam Schuster Eliasi — A look at Israeli-Palestinian coexistence through the lens of humor and lived experience ([33:09]).

Conclusion

In a landscape where world order is rapidly shifting—and sometimes unraveling—Amanpour and Rubin deliver both urgent analysis and candid, often biting commentary. Their central warning: when critical decisions are approached as mere deals by dealmakers, rather than principled negotiations by policymakers, the risks to global stability, democracy, and values multiply dramatically. The episode encourages vigilance, critical thinking, and a refusal to accept "peace" on the terms of aggressors.

For those pressed for time, start with:

• The peace plan critique: [01:23]–[05:42]
• Analysis of Trump’s deal-making: [05:42]–[09:33]
• The tech industry’s power & political influence: [23:16]–[27:52]
• End with the recommendations: [31:20]–[35:32]