108 Our History & Doctrine Are Inseparable - Come Follow Me - E11 - March 10-16

Summary

Church History Matters: Episode 108 Summary

Title: Our History & Doctrine Are Inseparable - Come Follow Me - E11 - March 10-16
Host: Scott Woodward
Guest: Anthony Sweatt
Release Date: March 4, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 108 of the Church History Matters podcast, host Scott Woodward welcomes his good friend Anthony Sweatt to discuss the intricate relationship between church history and doctrine, specifically focusing on Doctrine and Covenants sections 20 through 22. This episode delves deep into the foundational revelations that shaped the Latter-day Saint Church, exploring their context, content, controversies, and lasting consequences.

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Context of Doctrine and Covenants Section 20

Anthony Sweatt introduces the unique nature of Section 20, highlighting its third-person narrative style and its role as a foundational constitutional document for the church.

• [02:36] Anthony Sweatt: "Section 20... is known as the Articles of the Church of Christ and over half of Doctrine and Covenants. It's the original guiding document for the church."

Scott emphasizes the significance of Section 20 as the first revelation printed in the church’s official newspaper, underscoring its importance from the very inception of the church.

• [07:39] Scott Woodward: "Only two months after the church was organized on the 9th of June, 1830, Joseph will present Section 20 at that conference for church sustaining approval."

Content of Section 20

Section 20 is divided into three primary parts: the preamble, foundational doctrines, and church practices.

1. Preamble (Verses 1-4):

   • Establishes the legitimacy of the Church of Christ, organized on April 6, 1830, by Joseph Smith Jr. and Oliver Cowdery.
   • [12:50] Anthony Sweatt: "That's a great beginning. At the end of verse 4. Where it gives our first Amen."

2. Foundational Doctrines (Verses 5-35):

   • Outlines key historical events such as Joseph Smith's First Vision, the translation of the Book of Mormon, and the testimony of the three witnesses.
   • Emphasizes the interconnectedness of church history and doctrine.
   • [16:53] Scott Woodward: "So we've got first vision, appearances of Moroni, the miraculous translation of the Book of Mormon, and the three witnesses themselves."

3. Church Practices (Verses 37-84):

   • Details the procedures for baptism, confirmation, ordination, sacrament administration, and church discipline.
   • Establishes early church organizational structures and responsibilities.
   • [34:43] Anthony Sweatt: "First one is by way of commandment to the Church concerning the manner of baptism... These are the early practices that the rest of the section lays out there."

Controversies in Section 20

A notable controversy arises in verse 37 regarding the qualifications for baptism. Oliver Cowdery initially opposed Joseph Smith's addition of "manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins."

• [49:48] Anthony Sweatt: "Oliver might be thinking he's doing his scriptural duty here, although from my perspective, he takes it a little far."
• [50:38] Scott Woodward: "How are you calling me out to change a verse that I got by revelation?"

Joseph Smith responds firmly, asserting his prophetic authority to amend the revelation, a resolution that eventually convinces Oliver and others.

• [51:30] Anthony Sweatt: "Joseph... asked him by what authority he took upon him to command me to alter or erase... Ultimately, Oliver was convinced to acknowledge that they had been in error."

Doctrine and Covenants Section 21

Section 21 was the first revelation given on the day of the church's organization, April 6, 1830. It establishes the roles and responsibilities within the church, particularly emphasizing the authority of the prophet.

• [62:52] Scott Woodward: "Behold, there shall be a record kept among you... thou, Joseph Smith, shall be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ..."
• [65:01] Anthony Sweatt: "It is important to highlight that the church members' role is to sustain as the prophet receives revelations."

Controversies in Section 21

A significant debate centers around the interpretation of verses 4 and 5, which some argue imply that the prophet's words are directly ascribed to Jesus Christ. This has led to discussions on prophetic fallibility and the nature of revelation within the church.

• [66:17] Scott Woodward: "Does section 21 verse 4 and 5... say that every word the church president says is as if Jesus is saying it?"
• [72:57] Anthony Sweatt: "We need to remember that prophets can make mistakes, but their infallibility lies in their witness of Christ."

Anthony advocates for a balanced view, emphasizing trust and faith in the prophet's role without attributing direct infallibility to every statement made.

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Doctrine and Covenants Section 22

Although briefly touched upon, Section 22 serves as an addendum to Section 20, clarifying procedural aspects such as the necessity for re-baptism among converts from other Christian denominations.

• [45:31] Anthony Sweatt: "Section 22 answers... the need for those who've been previously baptized in other Christian branches joining the church."

Additionally, Section 22 underscores the importance of covenants, marking a clear shift towards establishing a new and everlasting covenant exclusive to the Latter-day Saint Church.

• [46:56] Anthony Sweatt: "All old covenants have I caused to be done away... This is a new and everlasting covenant."

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Consequences of Sections 20-22

The revelations encapsulated in these sections have profound and lasting impacts on the structure, doctrine, and practices of the Latter-day Saint Church:

1. Establishment of Church Legitimacy: Affirming the divine commandment to establish the church, ensuring its foundational authority.
2. Interconnection of History and Doctrine: Demonstrating that the church’s beliefs are deeply rooted in its historical events.
3. Organizational Structure: Laying the groundwork for priesthood offices, baptismal practices, sacrament administration, and church discipline.
4. Emphasis on Revelation and Prophetic Authority: Establishing the prophet's role in receiving and disseminating divine revelations, fostering a culture of faith and trust among church members.
5. Covenant Community Formation: Reinforcing the importance of covenants, uniting members under a common and unique set of spiritual commitments.

• [58:14] Anthony Sweatt: "Section 20... is the forerunner of a modern day handbook of instructions."
• [57:21] Anthony Sweatt: "Section 20... is absolutely foundational to the church from the 1830s all the way up to today."

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Conclusion

Episode 108 of Church History Matters offers a comprehensive exploration of Doctrine and Covenants sections 20-22, elucidating their foundational role in shaping the Latter-day Saint Church. Through engaging dialogue, Scott Woodward and Anthony Sweatt highlight the inseparable nature of the church’s history and doctrine, address historical controversies, and underscore the enduring consequences of these early revelations.

As Anthony aptly summarizes, maintaining a spirit of trust, patience, and faith is crucial in upholding the church’s foundational principles and ensuring the flourishing of its covenant community.

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Notable Quotes

• [02:36] Anthony Sweatt: "Section 20 is primo important."
• [12:50] Anthony Sweatt: "That's a great beginning. At the end of verse 4. Where it gives our first Amen."
• [46:56] Scott Woodward: "Joseph is clearly getting revelations, but it doesn't clarify that he's the only one to be giving the revelations for the Church."
• [65:01] Anthony Sweatt: "The comforter testifies of Christ... prophets are infallible in their witness that Jesus is the Christ."

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Further Engagement

For listeners eager to delve deeper into the rich tapestry of church history and doctrine, be sure to subscribe to Church History Matters and explore additional resources at scripturecentral.org. Engage with the community by sharing your reflections and continuing the conversation on how history and doctrine shape the enduring legacy of the Latter-day Saint Church.

Transcript

[Anthony Sweatt]

Foreign.

[Scott Woodward]

Welcome to Church History Matters. Come follow Me edition, where we are systematically diving into every section of the Doctrine and Covenants throughout the year 2025. We have a lot to talk about today, so let's get into it. Welcome to Church History Matters. Today I have some good news and some sad news. Sad news is Casey Griffiths is not with us today. He is over on Hank and John's podcast called Follow Him. So if you're wanting to fill your Casey calories this week, you want to go get some Casey, go over to follow him. And instead of Casey now, I'm transitioning to the Good News. Here I have with me today my good friend, Anthony Sweatt. Hey, Anthony. Welcome to the show, man.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I'm so excited to be with you, Scott. And some of your listeners just went, that was bad news and worse news. Not. Not bad news and good news. But I don't. I cannot replace the great Casey Griffiths.

[Scott Woodward]

Casey is irreplaceable.

[Anthony Sweatt]

He is. But I got better jokes, though. I got better jokes.

[Scott Woodward]

You do. And I hope. I hope that comes out today. And feel free just to let. Let it fly here on Church History Matters.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I'll try to do my best.

[Scott Woodward]

I don't think our listeners will be disappointed. By the end of this, you'll understand why I invited Anthony onto the show today. He is an expert in the Doctrine and Covenants, all things church history. He is a professor of religion at BYU Provo in the Church History and Doctrine department. And I'm not going to give a big old long bio, Tony, but let's just get in it. Let's have fun.

[Anthony Sweatt]

But I love the Doctrine Covenants. I love to teach it. I love the marvelous revelations. We're not holding back. This is going to be awesome.

[Scott Woodward]

Awesome. So today is doctrine and covenants 20 through 22. We're studying this week, or come follow me. And, man, is there a lot of material to cover today, Tony.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, big sections, big major sections, particularly section 20, as we'll talk about this founding constitutional section. And 21 and even 22, even though it's just a short little guy, it's not one whit behind and it's potency. So I'm excited to dive into these.

[Scott Woodward]

Sporty, but goody.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

All right, so let's drop into our first c for section 20, the context. And Anthony, you want to take it away?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Sure. Love to. The Context of Section 20 has a fun story behind it because it's one of those unique revelations where you're not getting the first person voice of the Lord. You're getting the almost a third person approach where we're talking like we as a people, we as a church. This is what we. And it's a document that has a history behind it that's evident. And also there's parts of it where we don't know how it's being put together. The context behind this is when they finish translating the Book of Mormon. And back in section 18 of the Doctrine and Covenants that you guys have already studied, the Lord gives a revelation to David Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery. And in one of the verses, this is section 18, verse 3 and 4, the Lord says, I give unto you a commandment that you rely upon the things which are written now in context, that's the Book of Mormon. For in them, in the pages of the Book of Mormon, are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my Gospel, and my rock. And so Oliver Cowdery is going to take the manuscript of the Book of Mormon and over the next number of months, he is going to pull together from the Book of Mormon what he sees as foundational practices and ordinances and offices and put it together into a document that is known as the Articles of the Church of Christ and over half of Doctrine and Covenants. 20 it seems or is reported to be a quotation of Oliver Cowdery's original articles. And in fact, when they're organizing the church on April 6, 1830, what they're going to use to file with the State of New York is Oliver's articles, because that's what's been being used as kind of like their founding document, their founding beliefs. Now, Joseph, by prophetic authority and revelation, he is going to then start to expand on Oliver's Articles. And in Joseph's own history, he says, in this manner, did the Lord continue to give us instructions from time to time concerning the duties which now devolved upon us and among many other things of the kind we obtained of him, the following, that is the Articles and Covenants or the Constitution, Section 20. By the spirit of prophecy and revelation, which not only gave us much information, but also pointed out to us the precise day upon which, according to his will and commandment, we should proceed to organize his church once again here upon the earth. Now, Joseph's writing that later in 1838, 39, for his history. So Joseph is going to then, by the spirit of prophecy and revelation, his own words expand upon Oliver's original articles, and the result will be Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

[Scott Woodward]

And so does he. Does Joseph Consider this document finished, done, definitive, or is this more of an open document to be added upon?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Well, like most of his revelations, I'm not sure if Joseph ever sees any of them as finished and done and definitive language is too interpretive. Like, for example, in section 20 of the doctrine and Covenants, it originally said that priesthood holders are to, quote, administer the flesh and blood of Christ. End of quote. Now, obviously we hear that as sacrament. But in a later edition of the Doctrine Covenants, Joseph will amend it to say that elders are to, quote, administer bread and wine, the emblems of the flesh and blood of Christ. He's clarifying there what he means by that. I don't know his motive behind making that clarification. But clearly, like other documents, if Joseph feels a need to clarify or add to, he does that Even with Section 20, this constitutional document.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah. In fact, in an early edition of this document, it has written on it, it says thus far the church articles and covenant suggesting this ongoing nature of the Church's development. Like you're saying, Joseph will add as additional revelation comes, he's going to continue to add to this document, which is.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, now. And he doesn't add this in. But Even in section 33 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord gives a revelatory clarification, clarification about confirmation. Section 20 brushes on here. You baptize and here's some things with confirmation, Section 33 adds a little bit more so and clearly as priesthood offices and other things come and develop. So, for example, another obvious addition that will come later is in verse 66, 67, he says, but the presiding elders, traveling bishops, high counselors, high priests and elders have the privilege of ordaining. Now, when the church is organized in April 6th of 1830, the only priesthood offices are elder, priest, teacher, deacon, and so high priest, bishop, high council. That doesn't come until the years following between 1830 and 1835. So it's obvious that by the time the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants comes, verses like that are later amendments by Joseph.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah, he's going back as additional revelation's been received to kind of update that in terms of this operating document for the church. Good. What else do we need to know about the context? Anything else?

[Anthony Sweatt]

I think context just understand up front how important this document was. It will be the first revelation to be printed in the church's official newspaper called the Evening and Morning Star back then, particularly because we won't get a real edition printed of Joseph's revelations until 1835. Doctrine and covenants A lot of people, the way they got the revelations were through the newspaper. That's how most people got their first exposure and had a printed copy. And so the fact that this is the first one printed shows like, hey, section 20 is primo important.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

And then another maybe contextual thing to show its importance is in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. It is the first section to come only after the preface. So it's like preface section 20. Boom, boom. Yeah. And it's almost like this section should be given preeminence among the saints for us to know and to study. I've said to my students before, section 20 to you and I is like the Constitution is to somebody who studies American government. We should know section 20 really well. It was the original handbook of instruction, so to speak. It's the original guiding document for the church.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah. In fact, only two months after the church was organized on the 9th of June, 1830, Joseph will present Section 20 at that conference for, like, church sustaining approval.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

And this is the only section of the Doctrine and Covenants to be sustained like that in Joseph's day.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

So again, that just underscores what you're saying about, like, this was meant to be binding, guiding, like the document that the church would run off of anyone of the Latter Day Saints to sustain it as such.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Even today in the Church. You know, maybe I won't jump ahead on your four Cs, but in consequences.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Even today, if somebody finds that they don't have, you know, their phone with them or their. And somehow they need to say the sacrament or there's not a little card printed and laminated, you open up to section 20 and there's our. There's our sacrament prayers. You open up the section 20 and there's our baptismal prayer. So it is this founding document that even for us today, it's funny you.

[Scott Woodward]

Mentioned that, because I've recently been called into a bishopric and our bishop was gone. I'm his first counselor. Last week, the priest knelt down and started saying the prayer. And I realized I'm the guy. I'm supposed to be, like, checking and making sure he's saying the prayer. Right. And so I. I hastily. I was like, ah, boom. My mind went turn to section 20 in section 20, 26, like, check it up. Yep.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

So in five seconds I was like. And I was following along and.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

And he nailed it. Except on the water, he said. Or on the wine, he said. Water.

[Anthony Sweatt]

He said water. So did you call him out? You Tell him to stop redo it.

[Scott Woodward]

It's. It's wine. It says it right here. It says I did not. No, but you're right. I mean, my instinct was not to look for a card. Where's the card that has the prayers? It was like, go to section 20 because it's right there.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep, exactly.

[Scott Woodward]

And we should mention that section 20 is drawing heavily from the Book of Mormon because actually that's where the prayer originally is. Right in Moroni.

[Anthony Sweatt]

If anybody's ever like, why is it in both. Getting back to the context, that's evidence of Oliver going into the Book of Mormon, pulling it into the articles, which becomes into the Section 20 of the Constitution.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah. Casey and I, when we were covering section 18, we talked about how Book of Mormon based our church is. It's really, especially in these founding years, like it, the doctrine, the structure, the liturgy of the sacrament, baptism, we are pulling it directly from the Book of Mormon.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

I don't know if we emphasize that enough. I mean, this is a Book of Mormon based church and section 18 and now section 20 is the, the best evidence for them.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Amen. Like they say in section 20 through the whole thing. Amen, totally.

[Scott Woodward]

All right, so there's the context. All right, so content of section 20, what do we need to know about this section? What's so important? Let's dive in.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Okay, Preamble with foundational events. Like what, what led up to this church? Then second part, foundational doctrines or teachings like what really is our most foundational doctrine that we teach? And then last part, then what's our practices? What are we going to do that's growing out of this foundational events and doctrines.

[Scott Woodward]

Perfect. So the three part division of section 20, let's get into that first part, then the preamble. I think that would be what verses one through four is kind of the announcement of the Church's legitimacy. Right. This states that Church of Christ was legally organized and established because of the will and commandments of God. Quoting right here on April 6, 1830. This church exists because God gave commandments concerning its establishment to Joseph Smith Jr. Who was called of God and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ to be the first elder of this church. And Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, the second elder of the church. And this according to the grace of our Lord and Savior. In other words, this church exists because God commanded two authorized apostles to establish it. Like that's pretty solid beginning.

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's a great beginning. At the end of verse 4. Where it gives our first Amen. I give an amen to that.

[Scott Woodward]

Amen. So that's the authority of the church. That's the legitimacy of the church.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

Perfect. So then verses 5 through 10 kind of give, like you're saying, the brief overview of some of the foundational historical narrative of the Church. Right. It begins.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

At the moment when this first elder, Joseph Smith, had it truly manifested unto him that he had received a remission of his sins.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

Now, this seems to be an oblique little reference to the first vision.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah. Sometimes you'll hear people say, you know, Joseph has four accounts of the first vision. 1832, 35, 38, and 42.

[Scott Woodward]

Totally.

[Anthony Sweatt]

And sometimes people say, well, he didn't record the first vision until 1832. Now, that's true. He didn't record the details. But if you know the 1832 account in particular, where it centers in on Joseph receiving a remission of his sins.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes.

[Anthony Sweatt]

He even says the first thing that the Lord said to him was, joseph, my son, thy sins are forgiven thee.

[Scott Woodward]

Boom.

[Anthony Sweatt]

If you know that, then when you read verse five, you go after it was manifest unto Joseph Smith that he had received remission of his sins. He was entangled again in the vanities of the world. And you were like, oh, that, that. Actually, the first reference to the first vision is in April of 1830 in section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants. That's our first public reference that I know of.

[Scott Woodward]

It's oblique. You've got to know the 1832 account to be able to catch it, but it's there.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

And I know, you know, Casey and I have talked and other scholars have talked about how it seems like Joseph early on did not see the institutional relevance of his own personal first vision.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

But it's only over time that it's. That seems to dawn on him, especially as others give him feedback like, that's significant, Joseph. Like, we should talk more about that.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

That he really starts to make it more public. And so for him, this is a very personal experience where he sought God and sought forgiveness of sins, and it came. And that's deeply personal. I'm just going to brush over it here in verse five, and I'm just going to keep going with the story. And it's just so indicative of Joseph's typical downplaying of the first vision in those first years.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah. I wouldn't give the critic the credence that Joseph doesn't see its significance.

[Scott Woodward]

Oh, no. Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Because even when he starts his 1832 journal, History. He even says, I'm going to write down all the marvelous things that have happened to me. And the first thing he writes down is the first vision in 1832. I just don't know, like you're saying, I don't know. If he sees it as the impetus for the restoration. It's not until later, as you're saying, that it will be like, no, this really does provide the foundational narrative for the restored church. Orson Pratt will be one of those who really starts to see and use it. And it's become so foundational for us today.

[Scott Woodward]

Exactly, yeah. So personally significant, no question. Institutionally significant. That seems to grow in time over that first decade. And it was. It was Orson Pratt, wasn't it, who first had Joseph tell him a story, and then Orson wrote it in a pamphlet that he used as a missionary in 1842. So, yep, that's verse five. So we got first vision. Oh. And then he's entangled again in the vanities of the world. So that's in between first vision and second vision with Moroni.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

Where his history talks about falling into many foolish errors. Foibles of human nature, the weakness of youth.

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's. That's what you wrote in your journal, right, As a teenager. My foibles of youth.

[Scott Woodward]

My foibles. I have many foibles of the youth that I did not write down in my journal. But we know the story. He goes on after repenting and humbling himself sincerely through faith. God ministered unto him by a holy angel. Reference to angel. Moroni's visits. Moroni, who gave Joseph commandments which inspired him and power from on high through the means which were before prepared. A reference to the Urim and Thummim. You translate the Book of Mormon, which contains the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Beautiful.

[Scott Woodward]

So now we got Moroni. We've got the coming forth the Book of Mormon. Now, the next verse goes right into the three witnesses. This inspired book, the Book of Mormon, was confirmed to others by the ministering of angels. Right. There's the reference to David, Martin, Oliver. And is declared unto the world by them, by these three by their united statement. That's appended to every copy of the Book of Mormon. Those are the foundational historical moments, as Joseph sees it here in this section. Right. So we've got first vision, appearances of Moroni, the miraculous translation of the Book of Mormon, and the three witnesses themselves. And these, he says, have this collective effect. I think it's really important to connect this history to the point he's making here.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

The.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Why?

[Scott Woodward]

These have the. The collective effect of, quote, proving to the world that the Holy Scriptures are true, meaning the Holy Bible, and that God does inspire men and call them to his holy work as he's always done, thereby showing that he, God, is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. So, in other words, if these four historical events are true, then it follows that the Bible is true and that God still inspires and calls people to his work. That's awesome.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I sometimes have students when I say to them, okay, list the first few events of the restoration off the top of your head. What are the. And they say, first vision Moroni and the translation of the Book of Mormon and Peter, James, and John or John the Baptist, because they want to get authority in there. Now, we've already brushed on authority at the beginning, but Joseph isn't laying out a case, necessarily baptism or priesthood authority here. He's laying out a case that we do every day with our missionaries or with anybody else. When we say, hey, if you want to know if Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, and we hand them the Book of Mormon and we say, read this text, study this text. Let God manifest to you that this text is true. And if you do, with, you know, sincere faith, you'll get the truth of it. Thereby you will know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. He seems to be following that logic from the very beginning there.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

That. That's why he says, first vision Moroni, Book of Mormon and the three witnesses. That's how, you know, he's called us to do this work.

[Scott Woodward]

I think that's a pretty tight, logical case. Like, if Joseph was really called by God and there really was an angel who led him to a book that was translated by the gift and power of God, and angels minister to three men to bear witness of that fact.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

Then we know. Yeah, that the Bible's true and that God still inspires and calls people to his work.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Like I love when Elder Ballard calls the Book of Morm tangible evidence of Joseph Smith's prophetic ministry. Anybody can claim that they've seen God. Anybody can claim that God's talked to him, but not anybody can say, and here is a book or a record or evidence of witness to prove it. And that's what the Lord gave Joseph. What a marvelous tool.

[Scott Woodward]

And in verses 13 through 16, say, like, the stakes are pretty high for earth, for the. For the inhabitants of earth. You will be judged, these verses say, by how you respond to these great witnesses of this work of God in our day, if you receive them in faith and you work righteousness, you will receive a crown of eternal life. But if you harden your hearts and unbelief and reject these things, it will turn to your own condemnation. He says, like, so this isn't just interesting historical tidbits. This is. Yeah, the earth is going to be held accountable for the witnesses of these men. Yep, that's a strong beginning.

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's a strong beginning for verse 16. For the Lord God hath spoken it. Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

Okay, so now we're switching to kind of the second segment of section 20, which is. You called it laying out the. The doctrine or the theology. You want to walk us through this? Yeah, and I know I've heard you in the past, and I think this would be good for our listeners to hear. You've talked about the inseparable nature and the relationship between our founding history and our founding theology. Like, you can't really fully pull apart our theology from our history. Yeah, I think that's the case that's being made here in this section. Do you want to talk about that and walk through these verses?

[Anthony Sweatt]

You know, he says, if these events are true, the next line in 17 is, by these things, we know that now these things are these historical events. If these historical events really happened, then we do know that. And he starts to list it. And so that's the connection. We can't separate our history from our doctrine, our doctrine of apostasy and restoration. Apostasy is a historical event. Restoration is a historical event. Apostasy of loss of priesthood, a restoration of priesthood. That's kind of the logic of the shift here. If you really know that these things really did happen, then you will know this, this doctrine is true. Sometimes I say, okay, what would you lay down as our founding doctrines? Then? What is it? And have them list them off the top of their head. It's really interesting to compare, even right now, as people are listening, as they're driving or working out or whatever they're doing in your own mind, list. If you're like, if I had to list a half a dozen, you know, five to 10 founding doctrines, foundational, what would they be? And then to compare it to this list that you're about to give, it's.

[Scott Woodward]

A fun exercise and try to connect it to those founding events. If we know for sure the first vision, translation, Book of Mormon, three witnesses, Angel Moroni, if that's true, then what doctrines do we know? Listeners, if you want to pause and make your list, go for it, because we're about to go through a Section 20 says. And you can make that comparison. That's a fun exercise, Anthony. I like that. First, he says, you know that there is a God in heaven. That's a great spot to start.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Foundational doctrine number one, there's a God. There's a God who rules and reigns. Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

Who is unchangeable framer of heaven and earth. Number two, he created man, male and female, after his own image, and he gave them commandments that they should love and serve him and worship him and him only. Third, by the transgression of these holy laws, man became sensual and devilish and became fallen man. I think it's interesting that he's not just saying that if there was an angel that appeared to Joseph Smith, then the fall is true. He's saying if the Book of Mormon is legit, then let's dig into the Book of Mormon. Right. Because the Book of Mormon proclaims very clearly the reality of the fallen condition of mankind.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yes.

[Scott Woodward]

So if the Book of Mormon is true, then what do we know?

[Anthony Sweatt]

And you'll know the next doctrine as well, because this really is, as Bruce R. McConkey called them, those three pillars of eternity. If there's a God, and he created us and gave us commandments to follow him, and we have fallen short of that creation fall, every listener knows what comes next. The great third pillar is atonement. This is fundamental. Back to your comment of how we are a church deriving out of the Book of Mormon. This is Oliver or Joseph or the Lord by revelation, reiterating that foundational creation fall atonement doctrine. In the next ones you're going to get ready to read.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes. That Jesus suffered temptations but gave no heed to them, but was crucified, died, rose again the third day and ascended into heaven to reign with almighty power according to the will of the Father. And he did this so that the next verses say fifth, as many as would believe and be baptized in his holy name and endure in faith to the end should be saved. This includes both those from the beginning who lived before he came, those who believed in the words of the holy prophets then, as well as those who came after he came to the earth and who would believe by the Holy Ghost, which bears record of the Father and the Son. So Christ is the Savior of those who came before him and after Him. Because of our fallen condition, we needed a Savior and he delivered on them. Sixth, Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal. And boy, that's proclaimed throughout the Book of Mormon, multiple times, multiple places. Especially when Jesus comes down and visits. He says, me and the Father and the Holy Ghost are one God. Seventh, we also know from these things that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ and worship the Father in His name and endure in faith on his name to the end. Otherwise you cannot be saved in the kingdom of God. That's the requirements. That's the gospel we need to subscribe to.

[Anthony Sweatt]

You see the logic here of God, creation, fall, atonement, redemption of mankind. But how do you access that redemption? You must live the gospel. You must repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. Like there's this just logic from the verses you've read here, which if you repent and are baptized and we receive the gospel, then it's going to lead to these doctrines.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes. And receiving the Holy Ghost then leads to the eighth point. He says here, eighth, we know that justification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true. Meaning that through the goodness of Jesus Christ, we can be absolved of our indebtedness to the justice of broken law. Something like that. We can be declared innocent again thanks to the grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, we don't use that word justification a lot in the modern church, but it's a really important scriptural word. And it's an important word in Christianity. And I think it would be important for our members to know that word. And as you just said, it's like maybe typing on your computer on a Word document. You can highlight the text and then you can left or center or right justify it. It means you can move it. And so if you and I have gotten out of the way and we're fallen, which we all are, through receiving the Gospel, we can be made right or moved back into alignment with God so that we're in harmony, we're in good standing with him, we're in good grace with him, and we can live in a state of being justified, in harmony, in alignment with God.

[Scott Woodward]

Wow, I love the word processor analogy there, man. That actually worked for my brain. That was perfect. Left justified, right justified, center justified. Or for us, it's about being God justified, reconciliation, God justified.

[Anthony Sweatt]

But it's a fun thought to think of Jesus grabbing us out of alignment and putting us in alignment with God.

[Scott Woodward]

Through His gospel, brought into alignment. Love that. And then he introduces another word, the ninth point here. We know also that sanctification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true. Now Sanctification is a little different than being brought into alignment. Sanctification, I think I would add, is to be purified from the effects of sin, meaning you're not just brought into alignment, but you're also being purified in your intentions, your motivations. And the effects, the pull, the grab of sin on us is becoming disconnected. We're becoming more like God.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Justification is being made good with God. Sanctification is being made more like God, perfect. So brought into alignment, maybe left to right. And sanctification brought up to be more like.

[Scott Woodward]

Because we all know, like the beautiful hymn that's now back in our hymn book, Come Thou found that line that says, prone to wander, Lord, I feel it like we all feel our tendency to wander away from being justified and then we wander again and go do stupid stuff because of our carnal, sensual, devilish natures. Whereas sanctification is going to help us to not even desire to sin. Right. It's going to help us slowly. I mean, this is not something that happens overnight, but helps us to have no more disposition to do evil, to.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Use a scriptural phrase or to shake at the appearance of sin, to use a Nephi phrase or to use a President Nelson phrase, to be a sin resistant generation, you know, or soul.

[Scott Woodward]

And how do you develop that? This verse continues on. It says, this is for those who love and serve God with all their mights, minds and strength. There's something in that muscle group of loving God and serving him with all your might, mind and strength that helps you become sanctified. It helps you develop godlike reflexes and tendencies and outlooks on life and the ways you want to treat people and the things you want to do with your time. As you dedicate yourself to serving God, your nature starts to shift and change to become more godlike.

[Anthony Sweatt]

So yeah, that's awesome. That's a good summary.

[Scott Woodward]

Okay, then, 10th is cruising here, verse 32. It warns that there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the living God. Now this seems to be a comment that's responding in part to a Christian theological debate that was then current in the 1800s, about whether or not, you know, once people receive Christ and were justified and sanctified by him, like, could they ever fall again from his favor? And verse 32 says, yes, yes, it is possible.

[Anthony Sweatt]

It's a continued debate obviously in Christianity as well. I just a little quick story. I did a research study where I partnered up with an evangelical scholar up in Canada, and we did a study where we were comparing spiritual Experiences between Latter Day Saints and evangelicals.

[Scott Woodward]

Oh, cool.

[Anthony Sweatt]

And when we published this study, he and I, I'll never forget it, we were working over zoom and talking with each other, and we were talking about grace. He was like, I think we need to contextualize how both of our faiths view grace. So we started talking back and forth, because, by the way, I wouldn't overlook that. Again, just like the Book of Mormon, foundational doctrinally, here is grace. We know by the grace we are justified. We know by grace we are sanctified. And I showed him those verses and I said, then I showed him verse 32 and said, but we do think you can fall from grace. And he couldn't. I still remember he jumped back in his chair and he was like, really? He's like, you really believe you can fall from grace once you've accepted the grace of Christ? And I remember I said to him, I can leave Christ and fall out of love with him in the same way I can leave my wife and fall out of love with her if I don't be loyal and faithful and true. And we had the most fascinating discussion back and forth about our views of falling from grace. It was so significant, by the way, that we added it to our paper. And I quoted Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants in that academic paper of our foundational view that you can depart from the grace of Christ if we don't remain loyal and true and faithful and dedicated.

[Scott Woodward]

Wow. Love that. Is this a paper that is accessible? If people want to go check it out, it is.

[Anthony Sweatt]

It's called. I think it's called Pedagogy of the Spirit, Comparing Latter Day Saint and Evangelical Views of the Holy Ghost or something. That title alone, if you read it, if you have insomnia, it'll put you right to bed. Yeah, but it was fascinating.

[Scott Woodward]

Gotta be in just the right mood if you want to read this paper.

[Anthony Sweatt]

But don't read that at 10:30 at night. You won't make it past the first paragraph.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah, yeah, no, that's. That's so cool. To that point of like staying in love with your spouse. Right. That we all know, those of us who are married, you got to nurture it. You got to do the things that got you in love in the first place and continue to do those things. And that's where verse 33 goes. He says, therefore, right? Because you can fall from grace. Therefore, let the church take heed and pray. Always continue to nurture that relationship with God, that reliance on God, the thing that probably got you convicted in the first place. Right. That as you pray to know if these things were true, if you prayed to know if God was even there for you, if you prayed to have answers to your own personal needs, like that's how you began that relationship with God. This is how it continues. Pray always, he says, lest you fall into temptation. And then he says, yea, and even let those who are sanctified take heed also.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah. Even if you're good, even if you're a real holy soul, you still gotta watch and be ready and take heed so that you're not deceived. Because the very elect can be deceived.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah, 100%. You know, sometimes, you know, if you say to someone who's starting to maybe have doubts or maybe they're quite a ways down the road of doubt, and you said to them, like, are you praying? That comes across really hollow sounding and really superficial. It's like, don't talk to me about prayer. Like, I'm going through some serious struggles right now. You know, you could talk to a married couple, couple who is maybe struggling and you say, are you still doing date nights? Are you doing the small things that nurtured your relationship in the first place? It's actually a valid question, though it might sound hollow in the moment for someone who's in the throes of a difficulty. I just love that in the midst of all this, verse 33 is saying, keep praying.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

This is how you maintain that connection, that relationship.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Keep that relationship nurturing and growing and close through some of these basic practices.

[Scott Woodward]

We know all of these things are true. Verse 35 concludes and as John says at the end of the Bible, I like that Joseph put this in here. None of these 10 truths that we just outlined adds to nor diminishes from the prophecy of John the Revelator's book, or the Holy Bible or any of the revelations of God. People are always accusing this additional scripture and additional prophets and witnesses as if it somehow is contradicting the book of Revelation. And Joseph wants to nip that right here, verse 35. This is not contradicting, not adding to or taking away. It's only reinforcing these truths. Right. That are solidly biblical. Just note how these foundational theological truths are growing directly out of the foundational historical events. I just think that's a really strong point that's being made here and it's so powerful.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Then as you notice, as you see the shift again too, at the end of verse 36, you get that other Amen. I just like these amens in section 20. It's a great way to kind of see the breaks and what we're talking about here. So that's the theology, there's the orthodoxy. Now let's get to the orthopraxy, the. The right belief and the right practice.

[Scott Woodward]

Orthopraxy is going to grow directly out of the orthodoxy, isn't it?

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's right.

[Scott Woodward]

So if there is such a thing as baptism, right. If there is a need for baptism, if there is a need for you to come to Jesus in that way, then what's the correct practice for baptism, for instance? Right. And so here we go.

[Anthony Sweatt]

How do you baptize and if you, if you do need authority, who gets it and how do we confer it and know it?

[Scott Woodward]

Do you want to walk us through the orthopraxy real quick?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

What are kind of the key practices that are outlined in the remaining verses? Verses 37 to 84?

[Anthony Sweatt]

First one is by way of commandment to the Church concerning the manner of baptism. So who are we going to baptize and what are the qualifications for baptism? And it says all those who humble themselves before God and desire to be baptized and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits and witness before the Church that they have truly repented of all their sins and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins shall be received by baptism into his church. Verse 37 by the way, is still quoted in Preach My Gospel. Back to how foundational this text is. This section, Preach My Gospel quotes section 2037 as and it lists bullet point, those same things that were just listed there for the missionaries of. This is how you know who you can baptize the First Presidency and the Quorum of the twelve. Add some other by Revelation. Modern day they've added some other requirements on there like living principles of moral worthiness and that they're willing to live the word of wisdom, etc. But they're still using that verse as the basis. Now by the way, notice how there is nothing about confirmation and conferral of the Holy Ghost because 38 is going to move to the duty of the elders and the priests and the teachers and the deacons.

[Scott Woodward]

Why is that, do you think?

[Anthony Sweatt]

I don't know. I don't know. If it's just a slight oversight. If you go to verse 68. I'm going a little out of order, though. It says the duty of the members after they are received by baptism. So there's almost a jump here, almost like baptism. And let's talk about who has authority. Then they come back to this. The elders or priests are to have sufficient time to expound all things concerning the Church of Christ to their understanding there. That pronoun is those that have been baptized previous to their partaking of the sacrament and being confirmed by the laying on of hands of the elders, so that all things may be done in order. There was a practice in the early church that they did not confirm people and confer the Holy Ghost right after their baptism. They waited sometimes months. You'll even see this in upcoming sections with Emma Smith. Emma Smith will be baptized in section 25. And then when you come to section 27, a month or so later, they're doing what is known as a confirmation meeting. So in the early church there was a practice of baptize them, but don't confirm them members yet until they show this godly walk and conversation and that they understand their duties. Then you can confirm them. So that might be why it doesn't list it right away.

[Scott Woodward]

That's a good thought.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Jumping back to verse 38, the duty of the elders, priests, teachers, deacons and members of the church of Christ. You can see by the way, in 38, those were the original four offices when the church was organized in April of 1830. And it's going to start to lay these out. An apostle is an elder, and it's his calling to baptize. So it lists out. And let's remember, they did not have the quorum of the twelve apostles at this time. They called Joseph and Oliver, and eventually they also called David Whitmer as apostles. Meaning they are leaders of the church. They are authorized, they are the heads. The quorum hasn't been organized yet to administer the bread and wine, the emblems of the flesh and blood of Christ, as we already talked about that verse a little bit. To confirm those who are baptized into the church, to teach, expound, exhort, verse 42, verse 43. To confirm the church by the laying on of hands and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost. You see it mentioned there, to take the lead of all meetings. They're to conduct the meetings as they're led by the Holy Ghost. So that's the elder's duty. Now, originally, when the church was small, you could have Joseph and Oliver and David Whitmer and other leading elders to do that. It will not take long before that model is not functioning very well. And there are additional priesthood offices of high priest and the high priesthood and a first presidency that gets organized.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah. So clearly we can see the need for Section 20 to be adapted as the needs of the church change and grow. This is laying down foundational principles, but it's not closed and locked in.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I don't think Joseph liked things that confined or, or said don't set up stakes that say hitherto shalt thou come and no further is what Joseph said.

[Scott Woodward]

One time feels so good to be untrammeled. He says right.

[Anthony Sweatt]

46. We get the priest duty, preach, teach, expound, exhort, baptize, administer the sacrament. That's the root of the priest's duty that we still follow and to visit the house of each member and exhort them to pray vocally and in secret and tend to all family duties. That's the root of the ministering program or formerly known as home teaching. That's the key to your difficulties with ministering. Right there. And ordain other priests, teachers and deacons and take the lead if there's no elder present. Now I'm going to say this before we read the duties of teachers. It's not going to be until the early 1900s that there's a shift to start ordaining young men, teenagers to these priesthood offices. Now some were ordained when they were younger in all times of the church. But there's a coordinated effort to say let's use the Aaronic priesthood as a preparatory priesthood to get young men trained in their priesthood duties. But in 1830, right now when we're reading about priests, teachers and deacons, these were adult men of the church for.

[Scott Woodward]

The most part, which is hard for a lot of church members today to kind of picture that we have a 35 year old Deacon.

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's important to grasp. 53. The Teacher's Duty is to watch over the church and be with and strengthen them. See, there's no iniquity in the church nor hardness with each other, lying, backbiting, evil speaking, I joke. That's all the teachers today do is they're the ones who do all that. But remember early on a teacher literally was a teacher. It was somebody who their calling in the priesthood was to teach. We would almost view this like a quorum or Sunday instructor. Today they're called as a teacher and they would including going to people's home and to teach them to live the principles of the gospel. So that's by the way also why teachers are part of ministering and home teaching. 57. He's to be assisted always in all of his duties in the church by the deacons. If occasion requires that neither the teachers nor the deacons have authority to baptize, administer the sacrament or lay on hands. So they're clarifying here. Only a priest can administer the sacrament and baptized.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

They are, however, to warn, expound, invite, and I would add to. It'll come later. But remember a deacon. Their original job was to prepare the physical space. That's mostly what a deacon did. They were the ones who lit the stove and swept the floor and lit the candles and set up the chairs, dusted things off. They got the physical space prepared. That's what a deacon did. We've lost that a little bit in how we used to practice it compared to today. But that originally is what a deacon did and that's what some of those grown men did as well. 65 is where we get the foundational practice that no person is to be ordained in any office of this church where there's a regularly ordained branch of the same without the vote of that church. That is why continuing to this day, anybody who's going to be ordained to an office, they are presented before that body that they're going to serve. And it is known by the church that they've been sustained and then they're ordained. 70 every member of the church having children is to bring them unto the elders before the church who are to lay their hands upon them in the name of Jesus Christ and bless them in his name. That's the foundational practice of blessing babies right there.

[Scott Woodward]

Baby blessings. We can all picture that. This is where it began. Okay?

[Anthony Sweatt]

71. Nobody's going to get baptized until they're at the years of accountability. Now, early on in the church they did not define that it will not be until a later revelation. I believe it's section 68 where the Lord gives an exact age of 8 years old. But early on they just said they have to be accountable. 73 we get the baptismal prayer which we still follow to this day. 74 the baptismal practice of immersion that we follow. 75 we should get together and take the sacrament. 77, 79 Sacrament prayers. Again, you see the foundational practices, all of these being followed today. Then 80 we get. If there's any members who are in transgression, they'll be dealt with as the scriptures like kind of ends. Like, what about problematic members?

[Scott Woodward]

What about church discipline?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, what about church discipline? And originally send one or more of the teachers to them in 81.

[Scott Woodward]

We should still do that today. We should just send the teachers and just. We go handle that.

[Anthony Sweatt]

82, there should be a regular list of all the names of the whole church that may be kept in a book by one of the elders with a list of names of those who have united with the church. And so this begins the process of a membership record number. Now, they didn't give a number, but they're saying, whose members? We got to keep track and keep a list. And this begins the church's practice of record taking and record keeping. And then in 83, anybody who's been cut off from the church, their names will be blotted out. So you also have the original practice of removing somebody's membership record from the church. Those were the early practices that the rest of the section lays out there.

[Scott Woodward]

Wow. So that's kind of the. Again, like we said at the beginning, this is kind of the church handbook of instructions on how to implement everything, especially those verses, these orthopraxy verses. How do we implement the mission? How do we run meetings, who should do what? How do we strengthen the Covenant community? And what do we do in the case of transgression, serious transgression. We should probably add here too, that section 22, which is part of this week's reading, was oftentimes sort of added as an addendum.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

To section 20 to clarify another procedural thing, which was to clarify the need for those who've been previously baptized in other Christian branches who are now joining the church. The question that came up was, do we need to get re baptized into this church or will our baptism in our previous church count? Because that was a thing that was a common practice, that if you were a Baptist and you switched to be a Methodist, you didn't have to get re baptized because you had already been baptized. So the question of many converts was, what's policy there? And section 22 answers it. Answers it really well. And so oftentimes the answer to that question was appended right here at the end of section 20.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, I think that context is spot on. I think the content that stands out to me is I would highlight in 22 how many times the word covenant is mentioned. And in particular, he says, all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing. And this is a new and an everlasting covenant that is really important doctrine. It's almost kind of like the Lord saying, hey, all the previous things that have been done in previous dispensations, generations, Even from other faiths. That's awesome. But from here forward, here forward, there is a new covenant. There is a new law, there's a new authority, there's a new code. The old code is outdated. The old standards are done. And from here forward, you must submit to this covenant, this authority, this church. Really potent, powerful teaching. And then he even says, for this cause, verse three, it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old. And so there's almost this. That's the whole point of the church. The church is here to administer the covenant. And if I had to summarize into one word, what we're doing is we are administering the authorized covenant.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah. We're building a covenant community based in this new and everlasting covenant.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

That is being brought forth. And I know we like to throw the word authority around, and it's a fair argument, but it's just struck me over the years how section 22 does not use authority as the argument. He's just saying there's a. There's kind of a new. The new way of doing it that everyone needs to align with. Now you can use the word authority. It's totally appropriate. But just how carefully he's going toward the word covenant, where maybe our impulse is to go toward the word authority. I like that he's not making that argument, particularly. In fact, I'm struck by, like, Section 35 of the doctrine Covenants, where Sidney Rigdon, who was a preacher, very effective preacher, baptized a lot of people in his congregation, not lds. And the Lord just seems to be really, like, pleased with that and affirms that and says, I sent you forth to prepare the way. Now we're going to lay my hands on you and we're going to ordain you, and you're going to now take everyone to the next level. He's saying there is now with the restoration, there's a new covenant that we're now inviting everybody into. This is now the. The funnel where we're trying to get everybody here. So bring all your good works of the past. And now let's step it up into the. Into the new Covenant.

[Anthony Sweatt]

We could squabble over authority. There's not a lot of faith, though, that are talking about covenant of trying to establish a new covenant or a people who are linked into a covenant family of God. But back to Book of Mormon doctrine, title page. One of the purposes of the Book of Mormon is that they may know the covenants of the Lord. And so again, 22 is hearkening to that. We're a covenant based people. Yeah, we're a covenant committed people. That covenant is by heavenly authority. And the Lord is going to recognize this new and everlasting covenant. So join in.

[Scott Woodward]

Okay. So Anthony, are there any controversies in Section 20 of the Doctrine of Covenants?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Our third C. There are controversies here.

[Scott Woodward]

Tell us about Oliver Ketter. He had a beef with a particular verse, the way it was written here in section 20, even called Joseph out directly. Tell us what verse and what was the controversy here?

[Anthony Sweatt]

The controversy is in section 20, verse 37, where a list of requirements for baptism and Joseph adds the requirement of broken heart and a contrite spirit and manifesting by their works that they received the remission of their sins. Yeah, Oliver does not like that addition. I'm going to read to you from Joseph's history and to Oliver's credit here, you know, we can crack on. Oliver and after I read this reminiscent from Joseph account will kind of be like, Oliver, you're overstepping a little bit there. But in section 6 of the doctrine and Covenants, Oliver is told to watch over Joseph and to admonish him and.

[Scott Woodward]

His faults and so to admonish him. Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I mean, Oliver might be thinking he's doing his scriptural duty here, although from my perspective, he takes it a little far. If I could say that nicely. Joseph writes in his 1839 history. I received a letter from Oliver Cowdery, the contents of which gave me both sorrow and uneasiness. The above quotation he said, was erroneous. And that's the one about manifesting by their works. And commanded me in the name of God to erase those words from that commandment that there be no priestcraft be among us. I immediately wrote to him in reply in which I asked him by what authority he took upon him to command me to alter or erase, to add or diminish to from a revelation or commandment from the Almighty God. Yeah, that's a great response there from Joseph.

[Scott Woodward]

How are you calling me out to change a verse that I got by revelation?

[Anthony Sweatt]

That I got by revelation. I shortly after paid him a visit. I'm back to Joseph's reminiscent account here. When I found that he had persuaded Father Whitmer and most of the family that the above was in error. And it was with great difficulty. I mean, like most people, I think the prophet's wrong. I think he's off base here. It's not good enough just to leave it alone. You got to convince other people that you're right and he's wrong. And remember, Oliver Cowdery's going to marry a Whitmer daughter, so he's a son in law and he's convincing the whole Whitmer family. Joseph just says. And it was with great difficulty and much labor that I prevailed with any of them to reason calmly on the subject. However, Christian Whitmer at length got convinced that it was reasonable and in according to Scripture. And finally, with his assistance, I succeeded in bringing not only all the Whitmer family, but also Oliver himself to acknowledge that they had been in error and that the above quotation was in accordance with the rest of the commandment. So you can see here, Joseph, this is just like. Oh, and most of what Joseph added was coming from Moroni 6, except for that one line.

[Scott Woodward]

That one line?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah, that one line. And so Oliver's being a careful editor, a careful watcher over, but probably someone who's a little overzealous till Joseph convinces him from other scripture of the rightness of that concept there. And ironically enough, it will be Oliver who sustains and presents section 20 in, I believe it's the September conference. So he obviously was convinced.

[Scott Woodward]

So he'll stand up and read the whole thing out loud to the church's conference.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

So by September he's good.

[Anthony Sweatt]

By September he's good. But it takes the summer to bring him around on that.

[Scott Woodward]

Wow.

[Anthony Sweatt]

First controversy there.

[Scott Woodward]

Does Doctrine of Covenants 20, verse one announce Jesus's birthday? Some people say yes and some people say no. Did you see the word birthday in the verse?

[Anthony Sweatt]

I saw the word birthday in there, didn't you?

[Scott Woodward]

Oh, I did not see. This is part of the problem. Clarify. So here's verse one. The rise of the church of Christ in these last days, being 1830 years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established according to laws of the country, etc. Etc. In the fourth month, on the sixth day of the month, which is called April. So is that line saying, being 1,830 years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, give down. On the sixth day of the month which is called April. Is that saying Jesus was born on April 6th? Anthony, there's a strong kind of a subcurrent in the church that says yes, and I think we know where that started. I think it was Elder James E. Talmadge in the book Jesus the Christ. I think we could trace it back to him, he read it like that. Other apostles have read it not like that. I remember Elder Orson Pratt saying he thought it was several days later, like April 10th. I know Elder McConkie and President J. Reuben Clark Jr. Who in the First Presidency said they preferred maybe a December date on his birthday. So there's been various apostles who come down differently on this, and they're not all reading section 20, verse one the way Elder Talmadge did.

[Anthony Sweatt]

I would say we also have modern apostles, President Kimball and Elder Bednar, who have used April for the birthday. Whether it is or isn't April or December or whenever. Yeah, I don't think is really the point. I would get to the heart of what section 20, verse one saying, which is. It's a fancy way of saying April 6, 1830. That's a fancy way of expressing a.

[Scott Woodward]

Date back then, 1800s. Fancy way of talking, in fact. Yeah. There's reason to believe that John Whitmer is the one who wrote verse one. Since the discovery of the Book of Commandments and Revelation's manuscript of Section 20, which we didn't have for many years, it showed that verse one was actually an introductory headnote written by early church historian John Whitmer, something he did for several of the Revelations. And this is how John Whitmer writes. Let me quote him on a. In a different place he said this. Listen carefully quote. It is now June 12, 1830, one years since the coming of our Lord and Savior in the flesh. Does that mean Jesus was born on June 12th? No, it's John Whitmer's way of saying in fancy 1800s language, June 12th, 1831. Right. That's it. So Jesus could be born on April 6th. That's one of 365 possibilities. Other, other apostles have come down on different days. Different historians have come down on different days. One of our colleagues, Jeff Chadwick, has written a fantastic article going into all of the scholarly arguments, looking at the date of the death of Herod and other things that scriptural and textually we would kind of try to triangulate in order to pin that down.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Dating the birth of Christ is the.

[Scott Woodward]

Name of his article, Dating the birth of Christ. If you want to get into that argument, you can. It could be April 6th. What we're saying, I think with this Controversy is section 20, verse one is not making a declaration about that. Yeah, don't use verse one to make your case, basically. Is that fair?

[Anthony Sweatt]

That's fair. And I would say that Joseph by revelation was told the precise day when to organize The Church. And he was told to organize it on April 6th of 1830.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Now, to be very clear, the Lord does not, or at least in the record that Joseph left, he doesn't say why. Now, you could make an assumption that because that's his birthday, or maybe that's his resurrection day, or maybe spring equinox. Yeah. Joseph gets by Revelation to do it on April 6th. It's something significant about that day, but the Lord doesn't delineate it. And verse one isn't making a statement about his birth directly, although it possibly could be April 6th.

[Scott Woodward]

All right, so to wrap up section 20, let's talk about the consequences of this section. So first of all, this section is announcing the Church's legitimacy, stating that it exists because God commanded apostles to establish it. Number two, it's outlining the Church's foundational history, founding narrative, and that from that comes the founding doctrines and theology and beliefs that, that flow out of that, and then the practices that flow out of those fundamental theological points of history, theology and practice that flow out of that.

[Anthony Sweatt]

The only thing I'd add is as you study later revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants, anytime you read according to the covenants or according to the articles like here's section 28, 14, Thou shalt assist to settle all these things according to the covenants of the church. Here's section 33, verse 14. Ye shall remember the church articles and covenants to keep them. Here's section 42, the section known as the law, verse 13. They shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them. Anytime you read phrases like that in your brain or in your Scriptures, Note that Section 20, even the Lord in later Revelations, he's going to reiterate the importance of section 20 to reference and to follow. And it's really the forerunner of a modern day handbook of instructions where today in the Church we say, well, what does the handbook say? We should follow what the handbook says.

[Scott Woodward]

Do these things according to the Handbook.

[Anthony Sweatt]

To the handbook, yep.

[Scott Woodward]

So hard to overestimate the significance and Importance of section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants as absolutely foundational to the church from the 1830s all the way up to today, honestly. Okay, that is Section 20. Let's transition over to Section 21 of the Doctrine of Covenants. And boy, also so significant, the very first revelation given on the founding day of the church on April 6, 1830. Speaking of, we actually get a revelation that day, and that is section 21 in Fayette, New York, right there in.

[Anthony Sweatt]

The Whitmer Home President Hinckley called it a day of commencement, the graduation of Joseph Smith from ten years of remarkable schooling. I love that phrase. I think it would be good just to read real quick from Joseph's history where he says, what happens at the meeting on April 6, 1830?

[Scott Woodward]

Before we jump into Joseph's account of that day, it'd be fun to maybe paint a picture. As you mentioned previously, the Lord designated specifically this day, April 6, 1830. And it's kind of funny because if you go back and look on your calendar, that was actually a Tuesday. So the church is actually established on Tuesday. I don't know. For some reason in my head, I always thought it was a Sunday, but it was not. It was a Tuesday.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

Picture about 50 people or so crowded into this little Peter Whitmer log home there in Fayette to witness the event. A lot of people will know that there were six original members. And this is because there was a New York State law requiring if you wanted to start a religious society, you needed to have six people officially sign a certificate of incorporation. So, minimum of six. And so if you want to do some fun little trivia, who were the original six members of the church? I bet people can probably guess two out of the six right away, right?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

It could be Joseph and Oliver. They've got to be there. Who else? We're also going to have Hyrum Smith, which is cool. Peter Whitmer Jr. Samuel Smith, Joseph's brother, and David Whitmer. So those are the six who volunteered to be on the official original certificate of incorporation in New York. So anyway, that's kind of the setting. We got six official, about 50 or so in the log home. The Tuesday, what happens next?

[Anthony Sweatt]

You know, Joseph and Oliver, by the way, previous, a number of months previous, had been praying to know if they could ordain each other or give each other the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

And they're praying in the chamber of Father Whitmer that section 128 makes a reference to, and the voice of the Lord tells them to do it, but to wait until the church can be assembled and organized to do it. And so part of what they're going to do is also not only organize the church, but they're going to take care of these first ordinations and sustainings. So this is from Joseph's history. We made known to our brethren that we had received a commandment to organize the church, and accordingly, we met together for that purpose at the house of Mr. Peter Whitmer Sr. Being six in number. Again, those are the six you mentioned for the official organizing. On Tuesday, the 6th of April, A.D. 1830, having opened the meeting by solemn prayer to our Heavenly Father, we proceeded according to previous commandment to call on our brethren to know whether they accepted us as their teachers in the things of the kingdom of God and whether they were satisfied that we should proceed and be organized as a church according to said commandment which we had received. To these several propositions they consented by a unanimous vote. I then laid my hands upon Oliver Cowdery and ordained him an elder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And by the way, I would make a note that Joseph is writing this later in 1838. 39, after the full name of the Church has been revealed.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes.

[Anthony Sweatt]

After which he ordained me also to the office of an elder of said church. They're following again the direction they had been given earlier in the chamber of Father Whitmer. There we then took bread, blessed it and break it with them. Also wine, blessed it and drank it with them. We then laid our hands on each individual member of the church present that they might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and be confirmed members of the Church of Christ. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us to a very great degree. Some prophesied, while we praised the Lord and rejoiced exceedingly, while yet together I received the following commandment or revelation, which is Section 21 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

[Scott Woodward]

So right there on the day and in the place that the Church was organized, we now get section 21.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yep.

[Scott Woodward]

Okay, so let's dive into the content of this revelation. What exactly does the Lord say there in that context? You know, this really ripe, rich season of rejoicing. What now does the Lord say? Let me pick it up here in verse 1. First commandment to the Church. Behold, there shall be a record kept among you. You go downtown to the Church History department. You can go into the archives, and you'll see this emblazoned up on the. On the wall as you walk in. There's this language. Behold, there shall be a record kept among you. And we've taken that very, very seriously since day one, to keep a record of our church. And that's not the end of the sentence. And in it, in this record, the Lord says, thou, Joseph Smith, shall be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ, being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof, and to build it up unto the most holy faith. I love that. Right here, all three members of the Godhead are mentioned, verses 1 and 2 as having played a role in the establishment of this church.

[Anthony Sweatt]

It's interesting, in those titles that Joseph's given, he is called a prophet. Well, I'll give him an order, a seer, a translator, a prophet and an apostle and an elder. Now, those are all important titles, but what do you notice is missing of a common one that we say in the Church today?

[Scott Woodward]

Revelator.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Revelator. And I personally, this is just my own personal take on this, so I could be wrong, of course, but I think it's going to be later in the summer. That summer. And then the controversy in the September 1830 conference with Hiram Page, where Hyrum Page is going to claim Revelations to guide the Church, where the Lord will give very clear direction that, no, there's only one person who gets Revelations in this church for the Church to guide it. And I almost wonder if that was the impetus for sustaining Joseph as the Revelator for the Church. So I could be reading into that wrong. But it's an interesting note that in this title they don't mention the Revelator for the whole Church.

[Scott Woodward]

I am intrigued by your hypothesis. I think you might be right. It's just a hypothesis there, but it's a good one. I think it's solidly based in the history. I mean, you can clearly read right in this revelation. In fact, we're about to go there. Verse 4. It is implied here. It's not even applied. It's explicitly stated here that Joseph is a Revelator. Let me read it.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Yeah.

[Scott Woodward]

Wherefore, meaning the Church, thou shalt give heed unto all his the prophet Joseph's words and commandments, which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them. There's the Revelation. Walking in all holiness before me, for his word ye shall receive as if from mine own mouth in all patience and faith. Verse 4 and 5 are clearly saying Joseph's going to be receiving revelations for the Church. But. But I like that you're suggesting that perhaps the crisis this coming September is going to be the impetus for. Let's add the title there. Let's say Revelator as well.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Clearly Joseph is going to be getting revelations, but it doesn't clarify that he's the only one to be giving the revelations for the Church.

[Scott Woodward]

It doesn't mention anybody else, I guess would be the counterpoint. No, it just mentions him. But. But, yeah, I see how people could maybe see a little bit of wiggle room in there.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Clearly Hyrum Page felt at liberty to get of a revelation to the whole church in section 28.

[Scott Woodward]

Yes. So we will definitely tackle that controversy when we tackle section 28. But there's the teaser and I love that verse four and five are laying out like an order in the church which I guess needs to be highlighted more intensely later. But it's saying Jesus, Joseph, church members, right? It's establishing the prophet's role. The prophet's role is to walk in holiness before me and receive revelations for the church. And the church members role is to give heed to those revelations that the prophet receives as if from the mouth of Jesus and do this in patience and faith. And if you do, then comes the powerful promise of verse 6. For by doing these things, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. Yea, the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you and cause the heavens to shake for your good and his name's glory. And then he reiterates, for thus saith the Lord God, him Joseph Smith, have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in mighty power for good. And his diligence. I know. And his prayers. I know. He goes on to say, and his weeping for Zion. I know. And let's let Joseph weep no longer. All right, let's. If we can have the church come and support the revelations he's been receiving and follow them diligently, this is going to be the beginning of of great blessing in the church. That's pretty awesome. In fact, the Lord says one more time in verse nine, he reiterates, I will bless you if you follow these words. Behold, I will bless all those who labor in my vineyard with a mighty blessing. And they shall believe on his words, Joseph Smith, which are given him through me by the comforter. That's revelation which manifested that Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world, yea, the remission of sins unto the contrary heart. That same spirit that bears witness that Jesus was crucified is the same Spirit by which Joseph's receiving revelation. And you'll be blessed as you follow his revelations. That's good. That's how it starts, Anthony. This is the Lord laying out the order of how he sees this playing out. I give revelations to the prophet. Church members rally around those revelations, support him in patience and faith and let's go.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Let's build zion right there. April 6, 1830 from the get go just lays like the first meeting of the church. Talk about a, like a jump start, like bam. Could you imagine me in that first meeting? Joseph's like, hold on, write this down.

[Scott Woodward]

Right in front of everybody, showing the.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Lord guiding him from the very get go and it's evident that he is. I really do like the patience and faith that's been highlighted before that shows that patience and faith might be tested at times through directives that are being given or teachings. If it didn't, then the Lord wouldn't from the get go wouldn't have said, hey, there's some times you're going to have to learn to be patient and there's other times where you're going to have to walk by faith here on this.

[Scott Woodward]

I think that is an issue for some, right? And it could come from a misreading. Maybe we could talk about this. Does section 21 verse 4 and 5 we just read, is that saying that every word the church president says is as if Jesus is saying it? And if that's how you want to read it, then how do you reconcile that reading with statements like, you know, when Joseph says a prophet is only a prophet when he's acting as such, or Brigham Young. Here's the quote from Brigham Young. He says, can a prophet be mistaken? I will acknowledge that all the time. President Oaks said back in 2018, we don't believe in the infallibility of our leaders. And we could go on with other quotes like that. Many of our apostles have acknowledged very much that they can make errors, sometimes doctrinal ones, policy issues, whatever. They can have opinions, whatever. Right. You know, Brigham Young said, I'm fearful that the saints will settle down in a state of blind self security and reckless confidence in their leaders, that kind of thing. So I'm hearing on the one hand people quoting section 21, verse 4 and 5 saying whatever he says, it's basically as if Jesus says it. And then I'm hearing on the other hand, the apostles themselves, Joseph, Brigham Young and modern leaders saying, well, we're not infallible, we're not Jesus. Right. It's not that. Everything we say is as if Jesus said it. So let's walk through kind of how should we navigate that? Is it just a misreading of verses 4 and 5 or is there more work that needs to be done here? What do you think?

[Anthony Sweatt]

I listened to a previous episode that you and Casey did on section three through five and you guys tackled that very well. On Joseph's prophetic mistake of losing the 116 pages. That was a whopper welcome to the restoration. You lost holy Scripture that testifies of Christ and the restoration for the whole world. So I'd recommend number one people go back and listen to your discussion on prophetic fallibility there. I might tie it back to verse nine that you read. Behold, I will bless all those who labor in my vineyard with a mighty blessing and they shall believe on his words. Now, first of all, I think sometimes we can get lost in this discussion a little bit and it's hard. We can get caught in the weeds on some things. To me the big key is let's labor in the vineyard, let's serve in our callings, let's do our duties, let's fulfill our stewardships individually. And the Lord promises that if we do that we will receive a blessing that will believe on the prophet's words that we will be able to know that they are prophets of God. Now that doesn't directly answer is every single word I say to myself. I'm going to let President Russell M. Nelson lead the church and guide it. That's not my stewardship. My stewardship is to be a really good husband, a really good father as best I can, to serve in my callings, in my ward and stake, to do my ministering, to serve God's children around me, to be kind, to have faith, have hope. If I labor in the vineyard in my stewardship, the Lord will bless me with a mighty blessing that Joseph Smith down to Russell M. Nelson are his servants and that they are guiding this church. That testimony has been given to me so deeply and I prize that over parsing out whether every single word is or isn't a revelatory decree from Almighty God, but I will say on the second part, you'll not only believe his words in verse nine which are given him through me by the comforter which manifesteth that Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world. I would connect those two things.

[Scott Woodward]

How so?

[Anthony Sweatt]

Moroni 10 we go a little off base in my opinion, where we don't connect the promise to pray about, read and ponder on the mercies of God and then connect it to the subsequent gifts of the Spirit that are promised. We've got to connect those. There's fruits that come from it. In other words, you can't connect the revelation from the fruits. I would connect here. I think he's making a connection that the comforter. The comforter's whole job is to lead you and I to Christ. The comforter's job is not to give us a blanket or to make us good at math or to help us remember people's names. Now, it might do all of those things, but that's not its primary role. Its primary role is to lead me to Jesus Christ. It testifies of Christ. And where prophets are infallible, we talk, in my opinion, sometimes a little too much about prophetic fallibility. And we need to talk about the area where they're infallible. They're infallible in their witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God resurrected in glory. I know when prophets are prophets and when they're speaking as prophets. When the comforter testifies of prophets by leading me to Christ to learn of him, to follow him, to be like him and to be his disciple.

[Scott Woodward]

I love that. I think that's very beautiful and really well said. The text itself, I would argue, if someone's arguing this, that verse four and five says you should. Everything they say is as if Jesus is saying. I would say the text does not support you. The text says, follow his words as he receiveth them. There's the revelation and verse 9. Believe on his words, which are given him through me by the comforter. I don't think anyone will have a problem saying that whatever is communicated from the Lord to the prophet by revelation is true and should be believed and sustained. But because it's not always clear for you and me, it's not always obvious when the Lord's prophet is or isn't sharing that which is given him by me through the comforter. To quote verse 9. And like you said, it's not always our role to be able to tell that. I think that's what the end of verse five is. Saying that the church members posture toward the prophet is to be one of patience and faith rather than doubt and suspicion. We're not always trying to catch him. Like, was that the Lord or was that. That's the wrong mindset and heart set. It's about patience and faith, knowing that, as the Lord says here, I've seen Joseph's tears for Zion. He sins, but I've forgiven him. He mentions that here. Again, I've forgiven his sins. He is good. He's not perfect. He is good and I'm guiding him. And I'm asking you church members to please, with your patience and with your faith, help the cause of Zion. I think that's the posture that he wants us to have toward church president with under no illusion that he's perfect. Under no illusion that he is Jesus, but man. He works for him and. And he is, he is someone that the Lord trusts and works with. And if the Lord needs a prophet corrected, I think the Lord's going to do it himself. He's the Lord's servant. Anyway, that's just kind of where my mind goes with all of that. Just to add to what you said, which was great, is patience and faith is so key in this. It's built in right there from day one on the 6th of April, 1830.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Amen. I really like that. I like that posture of trust that the fancy word is, you know, hermeneutics. You're, you're gonna, you're gonna. Well, let me give a better one. It is difficult for anybody in any relationship to maintain a relationship if you don't approach it in a spirit of trust and in a spirit of love. If it's approached in a spirit of suspicion and a spirit of doubt, that relationship won't flourish no matter how great the person is.

[Scott Woodward]

Yeah.

[Anthony Sweatt]

And I think that holds true for the Lord's servants. I would put my trust in those 15 prophet seers and revelators over any other 15 human beings. Collection of 15 human beings that I can think of to help guide me on the path to follow my Savior. And so we have to approach it with anybody in a spirit of trust and patience and faith. I like how you've framed that of it's the spirit of the posturing towards it.

[Scott Woodward]

And think about it. Joseph Smith was 24 years old when this revelation was given. Can you imagine being in this church with a 24 year old prophet? I don't know what it is about having older leaders now, but I don't know if somehow they seem wiser and more seasoned and whatever. I only imagine that that original group hearing these words for the first time, that the words patience and faith with this 24 year old prophet. Yeah, it obviously doesn't matter how old the prophet is. If he's God's prophet, he's God's prophet. But it's been true then and it's still true today. And that relationship, like if you're going to help a relationship flourish, it's not going to be in the spirit of doubt and suspicion. It's going to be in the spirit. Patience, faith, trust, with a heart that's trying to help out. A willingness to sustain and support. Well, let's go then to our final c for section 21. We'll wrap all this up today. Consequences of section 21. What flows out of this? First and foremost, the Lord wants a record kept. And this begins A tradition of keeping records, collecting documents, recording our church's history. A lot of what we're able to talk about on this podcast and in our our history and as we talk about our history is because church members actually heeded verse one of section 21. They kept records and now we can tell their stories. Second, section 21 begins to set forth this order in the Church of Christ regarding revelation. Jesus giving revelations to the prophet and who then gives those to the church. And that the church members role is to give heed, to sustain as the prophet receives them, walking in all holiness before me. So it's really setting up this relationship between Jesus prophets and the church.

[Anthony Sweatt]

When the meeting's over, several members are baptized, including people like Porter, Rockwell, Martin Harris by the way, and Joseph Smith's own parents. When this meeting closed, after this revelation was given, Joseph said, we dismissed with the pleasing knowledge that we were now individually members of and acknowledged of God, the Church of Jesus Christ. And that evening, after the organization of the church and after section 21 is given, Joseph goes into the woods to pray alone. In Joseph Knight Sr. S recollection, he says that Joseph went out into those woods and wept like a child. In his recollection he says his joy seemed to be full. I think he saw the great work that he had begun and he was desirous to carry it out. So just a great, just culminating day for Joseph to see his parents and Martin and others join and to see the work start. And he's almost overflowing with emotion at the goodness of God in working through him to that point.

[Scott Woodward]

This is the first time that his family members are uniting together in one faith. Again, another personal note there. What might be behind those tears of joy? Yeah, for Joseph. What a Fun ride, man. Section 2021 and we did a little on 22. What a great week. We hope that this has been helpful for all of you out there. And thank you again, Anthony for joining.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Me today and oh, thanks for inviting me, brother. Can't replace Casey and all your listeners will probably be happy when he jumps back on. But thanks for letting me be a part of it today and and study these marvelous revelations together. I love the voice and the work of the lord in them.

[Scott Woodward]

100%. Honored to be with you brother.

[Anthony Sweatt]

Thanks my friend.

[Scott Woodward]

Take care. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Church History Matters. Our new episodes drop every Tuesday, so please join us next week as we continue to dig into the context, content, controversies and consequences of the revelations of the Doctrine and Covenants. If you're enjoying or gaining value from church history matters. We would love it if you could pay it forward by telling your friends about it or by taking a moment to subscribe, rate, review and comment on the podcast that makes us easier to find. For more resources to enhance your gospel study, go to scripturecentral.org where everything is available for free because people like you donate to make it possible. So if you're in a position where you're both willing and able to make a one time or ongoing donation, be assured that your contribution will help us at Scripture Central produce and disseminate more quality content to combat faults and faith eroding material out there in the digital marketplace of ideas. Today's episode was produced by Xander Sturgel and edited by Trason Fitzpatrick, Scott Woodward and Nick Galetti, with show notes and transcript by Gabe Davis. While Casey and I try very hard to be historically and doctrinally accurate in what we say on this podcast, please remember that all views expressed in this and every episode are our views alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of Scripture Central or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Thank you so much for being a part of this with us.