Podcast Summary: Church History Matters – Episode 128: D&C 63 CFM - Faith Does Not Come Through Signs

Podcast Information

• Title: Church History Matters
• Host/Author: Scripture Central
• Description: The Church History Matters Podcast features in-depth conversations between Scott and Casey, where they dive deep into both the challenges and beauty of Latter-day Saint Church History.
• Episode: 128 - D&C 63 CFM - Faith Does Not Come Through Signs - E24B Jun 9-15
• Release Date: June 4, 2025

Introduction to Section 63

Scott (A) and Casey (B) delve into Section 63 of the Doctrine and Covenants, exploring its immediate context and broader implications for the early Latter-day Saint community in Kirtland, Ohio.

[00:00 - 00:45] The Nature of Sign Seeking

• A: Discusses the concept of "sign seeking" where individuals desire the benefits of faith without cultivating a genuine relationship with God.
  • “With sign seeking, you want, like, all the benefits of faith without actually having a relationship with God so that you can get the fruits of faith.” [00:00]
• B: Highlights how struggling faith often leads individuals to seek more signs as proof of their faith's existence.
  • “It's just really common among people whose faith is struggling to try and look for more and more specific manifestations, like proof that it's there.” [00:20]

Context of Section 63

[00:45 - 02:59] Return to Ohio and Emerging Challenges

• B: Recaps the previous episode covering Sections 60 to 62, focusing on Joseph Smith's journey from Missouri back to Ohio and the issues arising in his absence.
• A: Introduces the timing of Section 63, received three days after returning to the Isaac Morley farm, highlighting two major concerns:
  1. Moral Corruption and Apostasy: Some church members in Kirtland exhibited moral decline and apostasy during the leaders' absence.
     • “We could not help beholding the exertions of Satan to blind the eyes of the people…” [02:34]
  2. Practical Implementation of Instructions: Joseph Smith grapples with executing directives related to purchasing Missouri land and organizing the gathering of saints.

Content Breakdown of Section 63

[02:59 - 10:06] Addressing Apostasy and Sign Seeking

• B: Explains that Section 63 tackles both the moral issues and the logistical efforts to build Zion.
  • “In verses 1 through 19 providing clear warnings to the wicked…” [02:59]
• A: Elaborates on the warnings against the wicked, including:
  • Divine Judgment: The Lord expresses intense displeasure towards the rebellious and unbelieving.
    • “The day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind.” [04:18]
• B: Focuses on verses 7-13 addressing "sign seekers."
  • “He that seeketh signs shall see signs, but not unto salvation.” [06:46]
  • Discusses the case of Ezra Booth as an example of sign seeking leading to apostasy.
    • "Ezra Booth... apostatized after his expectations for miracles were unmet." [07:08]

[10:06 - 18:20] Warnings Against Sexual Immorality

• A: Connects sign seeking with sexual immorality, noting the Lord's condemnation of adulterers and those who lust.
  • “He that looketh on a woman to lust after her... shall deny the faith.” [11:39]
• B: Discusses the psychological impact of sin on faith, drawing parallels with contemporary issues like pornography affecting religious belief.

[18:20 - 24:00] Practical Directives for Building Zion

• A & B: Transition to the practical aspects of assembling Zion, emphasizing non-violent means for land acquisition.
  • “Behold, I the Lord will give unto my servant Joseph Smith... to discern by the Spirit.” [23:28]
• B: Highlights the role of Newell K. Whitney in managing temporal affairs and fulfilling church directives.
  • “Newell K. Whitney is commanded to speedily visit the churches...” [24:00]

Promises and Eschatological Insights

[26:13 - 30:56] Rewards for the Faithful

• A: Elaborates on the promises made to those who endure in faith, including inheritance upon the earth and eternal life.
  • “Those that endureth in faith and doeth my will, the same shall overcome and shall receive an inheritance upon the earth.” [26:13]
• B: Connects these promises to New Testament teachings, emphasizing the separation of the righteous and wicked at the Second Coming.
  • “At his second coming, there will be a complete separation of the righteous and the wicked.” [28:01]

Addressing Sidney Rigdon and Further Directives

[30:56 - 37:02] Critique of Sidney Rigdon and Final Instructions

• B: Discusses the Lord's dissatisfaction with Sidney Rigdon's initial draft describing Zion, leading to revisions that successfully met divine approval.
  • “Sidney Rigdon's first draft was not acceptable unto the Lord.” [28:01]
• A: Reflects on the blend of practical and spiritual guidance within Section 63, emphasizing patience and perseverance in overcoming personal challenges.
  • “These things remain to overcome through patience that such may receive a more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.” [30:56]

Controversies and Interpretation

[32:33 - 35:11] Addressing Sign Seeking Controversies

• A: Explores the nuanced stance on sign seeking, affirming that signs are positive when stemming from genuine faith.
  • “Signs are good if they come after faith, but they are never a good substitute for faith.” [32:47]
• B: Adds that seeking signs as a means to validate faith undermines true belief and is discouraged.
  • “Signs can be an amazing thing. The Savior is just saying, that's not the purpose of signs.” [34:04]

Consequences and Practical Implications

[35:11 - 37:00] Summary of Section 63's Impact

• A: Summarizes how Section 63 serves as both correction for straying members and guidance for the community's future endeavors in building Zion.
  • “Now, in addressing this, he's addressing some personal stuff... towards building Zion.” [35:22]
• B: Concludes with anticipation of upcoming revelations in Sections 64 through 66, setting the stage for continued exploration.
  • “Next week, more really interesting revelations coming in section 64 through 66.” [36:48]

Key Takeaways

1. Faith vs. Sign Seeking: Genuine faith must precede the desire for signs. Signs are affirmations of faith, not substitutes ([00:00 - 35:11]).
2. Moral Integrity: Maintaining moral and spiritual integrity is crucial for the community's strength and unity ([00:00 - 11:39]).
3. Practical Implementation: Effective organization and adherence to divine directives are essential for building Zion ([02:59 - 24:00]).
4. Eternal Promises: Perseverance in faith leads to both temporal blessings and eternal rewards ([26:13 - 30:56]).
5. Balance of Correction and Hope: While addressing shortcomings, there remains a strong emphasis on hope, mercy, and future promise ([30:56 - 37:00]).

Notable Quotes

• Scott (A): “With sign seeking, you want, like, all the benefits of faith without actually having a relationship with God so that you can get the fruits of faith.” [00:00]
• Casey (B): “It's just really common among people whose faith is struggling to try and look for more and more specific manifestations, like proof that it's there.” [00:20]
• Scott (A): “These things remain to overcome through patience that such may receive a more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.” [30:56]
• Casey (B): “At his second coming, there will be a complete separation of the righteous and the wicked.” [28:01]

Conclusion

Episode 128 of Church History Matters provides a comprehensive exploration of Section 63 of the Doctrine and Covenants, intertwining historical context with spiritual insights. Scott and Casey effectively navigate the dual themes of maintaining faith without reliance on signs and the practical endeavors required to build Zion. The episode underscores the importance of moral integrity, patience, and genuine faith in the journey towards spiritual fulfillment and community building.

For listeners seeking a deeper understanding of early Latter-day Saint challenges and divine directives, this episode offers valuable perspectives rooted in historical revelation and timeless spiritual principles.