Church History Matters Podcast Episode 141 Summary

Title: Church History Matters
Host/Author: Scripture Central
Episode: 141 - D&C 85-86 CFM - The Apostasy Isn’t All You Think - E32 August 4-10
Release Date: July 29, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 141 of the Church History Matters podcast, hosted by Scripture Central, Scott and Casey delve deep into Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) Sections 85 and 86. This episode, titled "The Apostasy Isn’t All You Think", explores the often-misinterpreted prophecies surrounding the Great Apostasy and the Restoration, offering fresh insights into the challenges and beauty of Latter-day Saint Church History.

Overview of Sections 85-86

Scott and Casey begin by outlining their approach to discussing D&C Sections 85 and 86, noting that while each section is relatively brief, they contain a wealth of information:

• Section 85: An excerpt from a letter Joseph Smith wrote to William W. Feldman in 1832, addressing the challenges surrounding the Law of Consecration and the administration of church affairs between Kirtland, Ohio, and Independence, Missouri.

• Section 86: Focuses on the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, providing Joseph Smith's revelatory interpretation, which has been frequently misinterpreted over the years.

They also mention Section 87, which introduces a prophecy about the "one mighty and strong," a topic they reserve for a potential second part of the podcast.

Deep Dive into Section 85

Joseph Smith's Letter to William W. Feldman

[01:58] Scott: "Doctrine and Covenants 85 is an excerpt from a letter that Joseph Smith wrote to William W. Feldman on November 27, 1832."

Scott explains the historical context of the letter, highlighting the dual church centers of Kirtland, Ohio, and Independence, Missouri, which were 800 miles apart. Joseph Smith was actively managing church affairs between these locations, a challenging task given the communication limitations of the time.

Challenges with the Law of Consecration

[02:26] Scott: "Some members of the church who were relocating to Missouri were doing so without committing to live the law of consecration."

Casey and Scott discuss specific instances, such as William McClellan's purchase of property without consecrating it through the church's bishop, Edward Partridge. These actions caused significant distress among church leaders striving to implement the Law of Consecration faithfully.

Misinterpretation of the "One Mighty and Strong" Prophecy

[14:18] Casey: "Verse 6... 'shall set in order the house of God... shall fall by the shaft of death...'"

The hosts highlight how Section 85 contains a prophecy about a "one mighty and strong" figure, which has been widely misinterpreted. Over the years, various splinter groups have claimed to fulfill this prophecy, leading to confusion and fragmentation within the broader church community.

First Presidency's 1905 Interpretation

[16:28] Scott: "The First Presidency had to comment on this in 1905..."

To clarify the prophecy's meaning, the First Presidency released an official interpretation in 1905. They explained that the prophecy specifically referred to Edward Partridge, the bishop in Missouri, who had struggled in his duties. The "one mighty and strong" was predicted to step in only if Partridge failed, which, according to historical records and the First Presidency, did not occur. Partridge remained a dedicated leader, thus the prophecy was rendered moot.

Controversies Surrounding Section 85

[28:56] Scott: "The biggest controversy associated with section 85 is the identity of the one mighty and strong."

Despite the official interpretation, debates continue within breakoff movements, each asserting different interpretations of the prophecy. Scott emphasizes the importance of contextualizing scripture to prevent misinterpretation and the resulting ecclesiastical disputes.

Consequences of Section 85

[31:19] Scott: "Section 85 clarifies the administration of the Law of Consecration and emphasizes the importance of proper church records."

The revelation underscores the necessity of maintaining accurate church records, including those of members who apostatize. This practice reinforces the seriousness of church covenants and membership, ensuring that the church remains a committed and accountable community.

Exploration of Section 86

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

[01:28] Casey: "An excerpt from a letter... insight about the parable of the wheat and the tares."

Section 86 offers a revelatory interpretation of the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30). Joseph Smith recontextualizes the parable to explain the Great Apostasy and the Restoration:

• Field: Represents the world.
• Sowers (Apostles): Initially establishing the church.
• Enemy (Satan): Sowing tares (wickedness) among the wheat (righteousness).

Restoration Period Context

[43:10] Casey: "Verses talk about priesthood in a way we're typically not used to."

The hosts discuss how Section 86 ties the parable to the historical context of the Restoration, emphasizing that the Church was driven into the wilderness but never fully abandoned. The restoration is portrayed as the Church emerging from this wilderness, preparing for the Second Coming of Christ.

Priesthood Lineage and Agency

[43:54] Scott: "The revelation highlights the preservation of priesthood lineage through the covenant faithful."

Casey and Scott delve into the intricate relationship between priesthood lineage and individual agency. Section 86 underscores that the priesthood was preserved through faithful lineages even during the apostasy, allowing for the eventual restoration and fulfillment of divine promises.

Philosophical Implications on Evil and Opposition

[56:25] Casey: "The Lord seems to be saying that the wheat and the tares being side by side provides the context in which there's something to push against or something to resist."

The podcast tackles the profound philosophical question of why God allows wickedness to persist alongside righteousness. They reference other scriptures, such as D&C 29:39, highlighting that opposition is essential for agency and personal growth.

Controversies and Re-framing of the Apostasy

[47:11] Scott: "This presents maybe a different narrative of the apostasy than most church members are used to."

Scott and Casey argue that the Great Apostasy did not result in the complete disappearance of the Church. Instead, it was driven into a metaphorical wilderness, allowing for a continuous, albeit hidden, lineage of the faithful. This perspective contrasts with the simplified narrative that the Church was entirely lost and needed to be restored from scratch.

Consequences of Section 86

[63:25] Scott: "Section 86 reframes the apostasy and highlights God's ongoing work to save the world."

The revelation emphasizes that God's plan to save humanity has been in motion throughout history, with the Restoration playing a pivotal role in fulfilling divine covenants. It underscores the importance of both lineage and agency in maintaining the Church's continuity and preparing for the Second Coming.

Concluding Thoughts

Throughout Episode 141, Scott and Casey provide a nuanced exploration of D&C Sections 85 and 86, challenging common misconceptions about the Great Apostasy and highlighting the enduring work of God through lineage and agency. They advocate for a deeper understanding of scripture within its historical context, cautioning against isolated interpretations that have led to doctrinal controversies.

Notable Quotes:

• Casey [00:00]: "Now this is a prophecy that has become so misinterpreted."
• Scott [00:05]: "Yeah, this sounds amazing, right? Like, it's definitely cinematic."
• Scott [07:05]: "It's a common thing we see with Joseph Smith, is that he'll write a letter and then he'll place the revelation that he's received right in the middle of it."
• President Uchtdorf [11:49]: "In this church that honors personal agency so strongly... We love and the truth we have found. But we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience."
• Elder Ulises Suarez [12:23]: "It is hard to understand all the reasons why some people take another path... The Parable of the Prodigal Son teaches us..."

The episode concludes with a reflection on the importance of understanding church history in its full complexity, recognizing both the challenges and the divine guidance that has shaped the Latter-day Saint movement.

Listeners interested in a comprehensive understanding of the Great Apostasy and the Restoration, as well as the intricate dynamics of priesthood and agency, will find this episode both enlightening and thought-provoking.