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Church History Matters
145 - D&C 89 CFM - A Deep Dive on the Word of Wisdom - E34 August 18-24
01:25:20
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- [00:00]
Scott
This is one of those revelations that touches down into the life of every Latter Day Saint, Right. Not only making us a distinct people, but like this is brought up probably more than any other revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants.
- [00:11]
Casey
To us, the Word of Wisdom is a major thing that differentiates Latter Day Saints from other Christian religions. All commandments are based on reason and faith.
- [00:21]
Scott
The enduring value of this revelation lies in its call to temperance, good judgment, discernment, good health, obedience to God, trusting God. The ultimate thrust and direction of the revelation leads us to a better place.
- [00:37]
Casey
Unquestionably, though, we tend to think of the Word of Wisdom as a physical commandment in the Doctrine and Covenants. The Lord continually says there's no difference between a physical and a spiritual commandment. And some things we've been asked to use just to show our faith in the Savior and our trust in him and following the guidance that he's given to us.
- [00:55]
Scott
This is a moment for the individual to reflect about their relationship with God.
- [01:00]
Casey
I'm really, really grateful for this and the consequences in my life have been immense. Hello, Scott.
- [01:07]
Scott
Hello, Casey.
- [01:08]
Casey
We are back and it's fair to say one of the revelations we're talking about today is one that I think we've been itching to discuss for a really long time.
- [01:15]
Scott
Yes, the Word of Wisdom, Section 89. We have received a lot of questions from some of our listeners, like, when are you guys going to cover the Word of Wisdom? Like, can we talk about it? We got so many questions about it and we don't want to pretend today we're going to cover everything about the Word of Wisdom, nor delve into every controversy that's possible out there about it. But we do want to do a little more in depth than average take on it.
- [01:37]
Casey
Yeah, the Word of Wisdom is a real rabbit hole that you can spend a long time exploring. Like people have written whole books about the Word of Wisdom, People like John A. Widtsoe. Right. Recognized gifted apostle. We're going to give you a more than normal, in depth view of the Word of Wisdom today. But we've also got some great stuff to cover in section 90 91, and there's some juicy things in there as well. So what we're gonna do is in our first episode, we're probably just gonna talk about the Word of Wisdom, do our regular thing where we do the context, the content, the controversies and the consequences of this, and then we'll cover sections 90 to 92 in part two. Boy, is there a lot to discuss here. And I'm raring to go. Like, I'm excited to have the chance to talk about this.
- [02:22]
Scott
Awesome. So here we go with part one, then, of this week's Come Follow me. Let's dive in then, to the context. We could talk about context a couple ways with this. We could talk about immediate context, which I think we should do, and we could talk about broader cultural context, which I think we should also do.
- [02:43]
Casey
Yeah. The Word of Wisdom wasn't created in a vacuum. Sometimes we assume like it came like a lightning bolt out of the blue. But all these revelations, it's worth your time to sort of say, hey, what was going on in the church and what was going on in the larger world that the church existed in that may have led them to talk about this. So why don't I do the immediate context, and then you can kind of tackle the broader American context of what's happening during this time. So here's the immediate context. All right. If you go to the Newell K. Whitney store in Kirtland, Ohio, the original structure, it's still there. It's a beautiful historic site. The first School of the Prophets was held in a small room. This room used to be a porch. It was enclosed for the purpose of creating a classroom by Levi Hancock. And in this school, the local priesthood gathered to receive instruction in the principles of the Gospel. Now, we don't have any strictly contemporary sources describing the circumstances under which Joseph Smith dictated this revelation which was given 27 February, 1833. But later accounts indicate it was recorded in connection with activities linked to the School of the Prophets. And our source here is Brigham Young, who we should mention was not present when this happened. He comes to Kirtland a little bit later and he mentions that in the discourse that we're about to quote here. But he's affiliated with everybody that's part of this. He knows them very well. And it is super likely that where did the Word of Wisdom come from? Was a topic of discussion among them. So this is the way Brigham Young describes it in a later discourse he gives in the Utah period. He mentions that heavy tobacco use, both in the forms of smoking and chewing among the members of the school, combined with Emma Smith and others. Complaints about cleaning tobacco juice from the floor led Joseph, in his words, to inquire of the Lord with regard to the use use of tobacco and to the conduct of the elders with this particular practice. And he later said, I think I'm well acquainted with the circumstances which led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom as any man in the church, although I was not present at the time to witness them. So he's being responsible, saying, I wasn't there, but I think I know pretty well what led to it. Now, in this discourse, which, by the way, tobacco seems to be, like, the offending thing. And I recognize that our listeners might not be super familiar with tobacco use, but chewing tobacco has fortunately sort of gone out of vogue, at least in the United States. But if you've ever seen anybody, like, spit the juice from chewing tobacco, I get what they're talking about here. So here's what Brigham Young describes in this 1868 discourse. Okay. He said, when they assembled together in this room after breakfast, the first thing they did was to light their pipes and while smoking, talk about the great things of the kingdom and spit all over the room. As soon as the pipe was taken out of their mouths, a large chew of tobacco would then be taken. The distraction of the smoke and the complaints of Joseph's wife, Brigham added, made the prophet think upon the matter, and he inquired of the Lord in relation to the conduct of the elders in using tobacco. So these are the circumstances that one of the most unique practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints came into existence. Our health code, the word of wisdom. So that's Brigham Young's specific, immediate context, but let's talk about the broader American context, too. Scott.
- [06:10]
Scott
Yeah, like you said, the word of wisdom was not received in a vacuum. And it's not like tobacco wasn't being debated in the broader society in America just like alcohol was. There were temperance movements. In fact, the temperance movement got its start kind of officially in 1826. This is. If you're not familiar with the temperance movement, it's people that are advocating against the use of alcohol. Right? It's pushing against alcohol, at least advocating for temperance, which means self control and, like, very low use, or for no use at all. And there was a temperance society in Kirtland, Ohio. Actually, it was established in 1830, just before the saints started to arrive there. In fact, the 1830s was a period of kind of broad and intense public discourse on, like, diet, health, and temperance, like, health reforms. And some of them emerged as a reaction against perceived excesses in diet and lifestyle and against some harsh practices of conventional medicine, like, like bloodletting, like some folk medicine was. You would cut and drain blood in order to, like, get better. Like, it still boggles my mind why they thought that would actually work. Purging, ingesting mercury, like the. The calomel, which. Which eventually kills Alvin Smith, Joseph's older brother, some kind of quack practices. And people are kind of pushing against that. This is why folk medicine was really getting more and more popular, like doing kind of DIY medicine, because there was a distrust of medical practitioners at that day. And so we'll read a little bit about this idea of herbs being used for medicine in the Word of Wisdom. In fact, I want to just highlight that some of the language that's used in section 89 and most of the topics that are covered in this revelation directly reflect some of the prevailing health concerns and recommendations of the day. Like, for instance, one of the leading figures of this movement was a man named Sylvester Graham. He's a Presbyterian minister who advocated a radical dietary and lifestyle regimen known as the Graham Diet. By the way, this is the guy that invents, famously, the Graham Cracker. See if any of this sounds familiar. Graham was out there preaching against the use of any stimulants, including coffee, tea, meat, spices, condiments, alcohol. He believed these items overstimulated the body and led to various physical and moral elements, including, like, sexual urges. He advocated for a largely vegetarian diet, with meat being strictly limited or forbidden. He emphasized the consumption of wholesome foods like grains, fruits and vegetables. He had gone all around that area. Like, his ideas had direct impact there in Ohio, particularly at Oberlin College, which was a hub of health. Health reform right there in 1830s.
- [09:01]
Casey
Oberlin is a place that a lot of church members are affiliated with. Like Lorenzo Snow attended Overland College. And so these ideas are in broad circulation in the area where the saints are.
- [09:11]
Scott
Yeah, totally. Graham had gone out, like, preaching and. And advocating his. His dietary reforms. Printed books and pamphlets. Like, there's a book of his called Treatise on Bread and Bread Making.
- [09:27]
Casey
Sounds like fascinating reading.
- [09:29]
Scott
Great reading. Yeah. So would Latter Day Saints have been familiar with his ideas and the other. And the broader culture of. Of temperance and health reform? Is Joseph Smith asking the Lord directly about these reforms? We don't know. But what we do know is it's way broader than just tobacco. Right. So that Brigham Young context which he gives in 1868, which is many decades after this is given, no doubt highlights one of the influences that brought this revelation about. But considering the broad amount of topics that the revelation covers, it seems to be interacting with. With this broader conversation about health reform that's happening Right. In Ohio and throughout the United States. And so we don't know the question that Joseph asked. Exactly right. But it seems to be broader than just tobacco use. Is that fair to say?
- [10:17]
Casey
Yeah, that's fair to say. No church member should assume that any revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants comes out of nowhere. There's always cultural influences surrounding them, just like there are today. You know, there's ebbs and flows. There's a lot of temperance societies, for instance, that are flourishing during this time. And they initially focused on hard liquor, but continue to expand until they're talking about all alcoholic beverages, and then in radical circles, to things like coffee and tea and tobacco. There was even a group called the Cold Water army that pledged to refrain from consuming not only distilled spirits, but also hard cider, beer, wine, even coffee and tea. So in 1830, Kirtland, Ohio, where Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom, a temperance society had been formed shortly before many Latter Day Saints arrived there. And for many reformers, consuming stimulating beverages like coffee and tea was seen as a moral failing that potentially led to other vices and hindered your spiritual purity. So this is tied to the religious atmosphere, the revivalism that's going on in this particular era. So all of this is fascinating, and there's been some great work done on this. There's a lot of good resources out there to study the Word of Wisdom and the environment in Cayman. And we sometimes act like the Word of Wisdom was totally radical for its time. It actually follows the currents of the time. And yet at the same time, too, has continued to grow and change as further revelation has been given in the church. It's really a great example of a living revelation that's been updated from time to time, even recently by the current leadership of the church.
- [11:56]
Scott
You meaning, like, in terms of application of how it's lived in the church?
- [12:00]
Casey
Yeah, I mean, like, we're going to talk about this, but the Word of Wisdom doesn't mention vaping, but recent statements from church leaders have mentioned that vaping is against the Word of Wisdom. If Joseph Smith had foreseen that people would use electronic devices to spew hot steam into their lungs as a nicotine delivery system, man, like, he was good, but I don't know if he was that good that he could foresee two centuries later that we'd be doing weird stuff like that. So lays down some general principles that the leaders of the church from time to time have refreshed, have basically come out and said, okay, here's an update to the Word of Wisdom. Here's what the revelation from God is telling us right now in our time.
- [12:40]
Scott
Yeah. At least in principle. Right. Like, they haven't changed any of the text in our Doctrine and covenants, but the principles and applications to modern environment, for sure. I think it's really helpful what you said about the fact that this was not like this revelation that was given that foresaw future issues with stuff that people in Joseph Smith's day thought were completely fine. Like, somehow that got into my head as a kid. I grew up thinking, like, this was, like, people didn't even know alcohol was bad for them. Like, and then the Lord gave this revelation, and then. And then later on we find out it is, and boom, Joseph Smith's a prophet. But the truth is, yes, Joseph Smith is a prophet, but also there were people in Joseph's day that knew alcohol was bad for him. And there were people that were pushing against this stuff. Like, this is. This is current for Joseph Smith. This is not the Lord saying, you're going to want to watch out for stuff that later on people will discover is bad for them. Like, this is all contemporary. That was helpful for me to know that, like you said, this is. This is responsive to the day of 1833. And that's going to, I think, come into play as we talk about maybe some of the controversies with the word of Wisdom.
- [13:47]
Casey
Yeah, and I think there's two lenses you should use when you're reading section 89. One, look at it as an artifact from its own time. Okay, so what was going on when this was received that compelled the Lord to say this to the saints? The other lens you should use to look at it is, well, this is foundational to the health practices of Latter Day Saints. So what in here laid the foundation for the things we currently do in the church that, let's be honest, set us apart from other religions out there? The word of Wisdom is a major thing that differentiates Latter Day Saints from other Christian religions 100%.
- [14:24]
Scott
With those two lenses, then let's dive into the content of section 89. So the Lord begins in verse one, like this, a word of wisdom for the benefit of the council of high priests assembled in Kirtland. That's audience one and the church in Kirtland, I assume that's audience two. And also the saints in Zion that would be church members in Missouri. Audience 3. In other words, the whole church to be sent greeting not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days. There again, all saints in the last days given for a principle with promise adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest. Of all saints who are or can be called saints. There you go. That's the opening. Now, Casey, hasn't there been some dispute over whether or not those verses should be considered part of the Revelation itself?
- [15:25]
Casey
I don't know of any set of verses in the Doctrine and Covenants that there's been more discussion over, because this is sort of an introduction, to be honest with you, and a lot of people dispute, is this part of the Revelation itself, or is it a written introduction to the Revelation? Revelation. So here's what we know. When the Revelation is first published. In the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, these three verses were printed as part of the italicized introduction. So just like in a Doctrine and Covenants, today, there's an italicized introduction. That's where these three verses were found. So they weren't in 1835, published as part of the Revelation proper itself. And that's where a lot of people are coming from, saying, this is an Introduction. It's contemporary, it's not timeless like the rest of the Revelation. However, it changes in 1876, when a new edition of the Doctrine and Covenants was produced under the direction of Brigham Young, with Orson Pratt leading the effort. And these three verses are moved from the Introduction into the Revelation proper itself. And if we go back to the earliest copies, we're talking like the manuscript Revelation books which you can find on the Joseph Smith paper site, these three verses are included as part of the Revelation. So if we go to the earliest sources, it seems like these three verses were part of the Revelation. But when it was published in 1835, it looks like maybe they were considering it to be introductory and not part of the Revelation itself. But if we go to every subsequent edition of the Doctrine and covenants produced since 1876, the leaders of the church have published these first three verses as part of the Revelation. Now, why is there so much discussion? Well, it's because if you have ever looked at this, and I swear, even like my seminary students when I was teaching high school would pick up on this, it says the words not by commandment or constraint, suggesting that the Word of Wisdom was not a commandment when it was given, that's accurate, too. That's why I'm saying, read this as a historical artifact of its time. When the Word of Wisdom was originally given, it wasn't seen as a binding commandment for the Church. And in fact, the evidence that we have are that observance of the Word of Wisdom varied during the lifetime of Joseph Smith. But over time, the Leaders of the church gradually elevated the Word of Wisdom and importance to today's expectation, which is that most active members of the church completely abstain from alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and harmful drugs. So why wasn't it just a commandment right away? Church leaders have commented on that, too. For instance, Joseph F. Smith, president of the church, said, the reason undoubtedly why the word of Wisdom was given as not by commandment restraint was that at that time, at least, if it had been given as a commandment, it would have brought every man addicted to the use of these noxious things under condemnation. So the Lord was merciful and gave them a chance to overcome before he brought them under the law. That's probably accurate. Just like Brigham Young attested, almost everybody in the school of the prophets was using tobacco. There was probably at least among the American population at the time, there was widespread use of alcohol, though drunkenness was generally condemned.
- [18:44]
Scott
So that would be the idea behind verse three, where it says, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints who are or can't be called saints, like it's meant to be merciful and helpful to even the weakest member who may at this time be addicted to any number of these substances.
- [19:00]
Casey
Yeah, that's correct. And that makes sense.
- [19:02]
Scott
And you said that was Joseph F. Smith's opinion, which I think is well said, because again, he's not part of this context. He's not alive yet. He's not here. He'll be born in 1838. It's a measured view that seems to have a good deal of rationale behind it.
- [19:18]
Casey
And Joseph F. Smith does play a significant role in elevating the Word of Wisdom to its current status within the Church. That statement needs to be taken within that context, too. He is saying to the church, essentially, here's the reason why we haven't enforced it very strictly until now, but the full discourse suggests, and we're ready now, we're ready to make this a full commandment, an expectation for Latter Day Saints. And that gets us to where we're at right now, a signature practice of Latter Day Saints.
- [19:46]
Scott
Do you know what year that was that he started elevating it?
- [19:49]
Casey
There's early indications that 1905, 1906 is a key year. One thing is that we used to take wine in the sacrament. We've mentioned this in earlier podcasts. Joseph F. Instructs that water should be used in the sacrament. And then he also starts to send instructions to bishops and other church leaders that they should completely abstain from alcohol, tobacco, Coffee, tea, and harmful drugs. And so that's part of the step up, right? In fact, let me take you in and give you a bigger picture here. All right? So again, in Joseph Smith's time, it seems like it was treated as good counsel, but not a strict commandment. We have several indications. Places where Joseph Smith drank wine, for instance. We mentioned this in an earlier podcast. But in Carthage jail, they drink wine. I don't think that drunkenness was ever endorsed by the church. And there's even examples of people being excommunicated from the church for drunkenness. But occasional imbibing was probably okay. So after Joseph Smith died, the word of Wisdom becomes increasingly important. So here's a couple dates for you. September 1851, Brigham Young mentioned that all the sisters who will leave off the use of tea, coffee, etcetera, Manifest it by raising the right hand. So he's admonishing at least the women of the church in general conference to stop using tea and coffee. Then he motioned in the same meeting, all the boys who were under 90 years of age. So I guess if you were older than 90, you got a pass. They were like, hey, you're graduating soon. Anyway, he says, all the boys who were under 90 years of age who would covenant to leave off the use of tobacco, whiskey, and all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom to manifest it in the same manner. According to the conference minutes, the motions were carried unanimously. Then, in several sermons given in the 1860s, Brigham Young spoke against the use of alcohol and tobacco with his central focus on denouncing drunkenness. Now, in 1870, he says this. He says, tea, coffee, whiskey, and tobacco prepares the system for all diseases. Those who say they cannot keep the word of Wisdom. Wisdom, it shows they cannot. The word of Wisdom, if carried out, would add to the lives of the rising generation 20 to 30 years. So Brigham Young is gradually elevating the Word of Wisdom. And the reasoning he's taking is like, this is smart. We'll live longer if we do this. You'll be healthier.
- [22:09]
Scott
He may have overstated a little bit the 20 to 30 years, but I did recently hear that Latter Day Saints, on average, live seven years longer than others in the culture that are not Latter Day Saints. Isn't that crazy?
- [22:21]
Casey
Yeah. And there's a lot of factors that contribute that, but I wouldn't say the Word of Wisdom is a small one. Right. Despite the fact that Brigham Young and other church leaders regularly encourage following the Word of Wisdom only in cases of extreme excess, like being drunk all the time, was any Discipline taken. So they're saying this is a good idea. Then they move to this is a commandment. But they don't really do anything to you unless you're drunk all the time.
- [22:46]
Scott
Time.
- [22:47]
Casey
Then you could be excommunicated from the church. And during this time, not surprisingly, there's a lot of interpretation about the Word of Wisdom within the church. So it wouldn't be all that surprising if an active member of the church drank coffee or something like that. Now, when we get to the 20th century, this is when abstinence becomes more of an ideal. So complete abstinence seems to come into its own in the first couple decades of the 20th century. I mentioned this earlier, but in the early 1900s, water was substituted for sacramental wine. And in 1908, the First Presidency announced that members who did not live the Word of Wisdom would not be called to leadership positions in local units and quorums. Then in 1913, the First Presidency gave instructions to the President of the Salt Lake Stake, so kind of the flagship stake, to not recommend any young people for missionary service unless they live the Word of Wisdom. It becomes a requirement for missionary service. And the trends that start under Joseph F. Smith continue under Heber J. Grant. Now in the wider American context, context, prohibition is happening during this time, too. It's being discussed and debated.
- [23:54]
Scott
Yeah, this is a big deal. This is a very big deal.
- [23:56]
Casey
Yeah. So Heber J. Grant becomes president of the church. And then in 1921, under the direction of President Grant, observing the Word of Wisdom became a requirement to receive a temple recommend. And again, these are approximate dates, not precise ones. It's actually really hard to kind of figure out. But around the 1920s is when it becomes an expectation that if you're going to go to the temple, you're going to be living the Word of Wisdom. Wisdom. And President Grant during this time teaches that the Revelation is now a binding commandment, not a guideline, not a suggestion. In fact, on one occasion, he wrote, I have met any number of people who have said the Word of Wisdom is not a command from the Lord and that it is not given by way of commandment, quoting from the Revelation, but the Word of Wisdom is the will of the Lord. And so it seems like from about that time, and I've been in discussions last couple weeks with a few friends that are researching this. Again, we don't know know a precise time, but it seems like about that time about the presidency of Heber J. Grant and early on in his presidency observance of the Word of Wisdom, became a standard expectation for active members of the church.
- [25:04]
Scott
Yeah, I think in 1919, Heber J. Grant sent a letter to mission president saying that missionaries should not have a temple recommend. I know we have that one. It's pretty concrete. Specifically for missionaries. No temple recommend if they don't observe the Word of wisdom. And then, yeah, 1921ish is when it seem to have gone general to the whole church. And by the way, historical context, that's at the very height of the acceptance of the temperance movement in the. In the the United States. Like it was 1919 that we get the 18th amendment, correct me if I'm wrong. And 1920 is when it's enforced throughout the United States. And so like in 1921, the church is looking really good nationally. Like, these are our standards. We are true blooded Americans. Like, look at this. Like, we've even like now made a temple recommend. Like, we're looking really, really good. And then is it the 21st amendment that repeals prohibition effectively? Then we start to look the way that we look now, which is quite divergent from society. But in 1921, we were looking super American. Like we were very respectable by the highest standards of America, which I think is awesome.
- [26:17]
Casey
Yeah. An observance of the Word of Wisdom overlaps with Prohibition, which I should point out. Prohibition was just the sale manufacture of alcohol, alcoholic beverages. But President Grant is emphasizing alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and harmful drugs. So we're always a little bit divergent when it comes to that. But it does come into its own in this time when it fits the commandment that it was given from God. And also the. We believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. If you live in America, it was the law to not consume or produce alcohol during that time. So, I mean, there's a gradual curve to observance of the Word of Wisdom. And maybe some people would be surprised to find out that Joseph Smith drank wine on some occasions. I don't think anything we have indicates that Joseph Smith drank to excess or that he was guilty of drunkenness. That seems to have been very frowned on in the church. But there was a gradual implementation of the Word of Wisdom. That does take almost a century, but now we're coming up on a century of that level of observance. And it's difficult to see us ever going back, really. And in fact, I don't want to go back. I see the Word of Wisdom as inspired of God, but also smart. You know, I just think it's a.
- [27:29]
Scott
Good idea and we're commenting here about verse two. Really? Right. This is not by commandment is what the Lord says or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom showing forth the order and the will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days. So. So it was originally seen that way, that it was not commandment or constraint. But then there's that line that it's the will of God. And I think those two ideas are intention. Like, if it's the will of God, is it not a commandment then? Like, and I think by Heber J. Grant era saying will of God, commandment, tomato, tomahto. I know what the words say. Not commandment, but it's God's will. Don't. We don't want to live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God. Come on, we can do this. We can do this.
- [28:13]
Casey
It's clear that President Grant is playing around with that language when he makes his statement that, hey, it wasn't given by commandment or constraint, but it is the will of God. And I mean, he's got the position by the 1920s to say I'm the mouthpiece of God. I'm saying it's the will of God and it's a commandment and it's an expectation if you want to get a temple recommend. And that kind of is what pushes the word of Wisdom into its current state where it's very important to members of the church.
- [28:39]
Scott
Church, yeah. So when you read in church history and you'll see accounts where, for instance, at Carthage jail, Joseph and John Taylor and Hyrum and other, they're drinking wine, people say, well, they were doing that for the sacrament. And John Taylor says, it wasn't sacrament, it was to lift our spirits. Does that mean they were in rebellion? No. When you read that Joseph Smith on like, you know, Zion's camp was, he drank beer. Does that mean he was in rebellion and going against the word of wisdom? He was not. He was temperate like Zion's camp. They drank. What else? Let's see. I've got a little list here, actually. We've got Brigham Young, who made his own wine and sometimes drank his own wine. He openly drank tea and coffee. In 1861, he told the saints that they shouldn't be commanded in all things and the word of wisdom is not a commandment. But he always talked in terms of moderation. But then by the time we get to Joseph F. Smith, so. But you'll see in Wilford Woodruff's journal, you'll take the Tea in the packing list of the pioneers going from Nauvoo to Utah. Like, coffee is on the list. Like for the Latter Day Saints to let go. This is not rebellion, right? This is what was being taught was moderation. It was moderation. And then as you've done a good job, like explaining it eventually becomes not moderation, but total abstinence. And so that's, you know, that's the facts of the matter.
- [29:55]
Casey
Yeah, let me move to verse four here because this brings up another important idea with the word of wisdom, verse 4. Verily, thus saith the Lord unto to you in consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days. I have warned you and forewarn you by giving you this word of wisdom by revelation. Now, this plays into the idea that the word of wisdom is specifically crafted for conditions found in the latter days. It's no surprise to anybody that's familiar with the scriptures that the Lord has often given people health guidelines and changed the guidelines to meet the needs of the conditions, conditions that they live in. For instance, in Moses time, the Lord restricted what kind of animals clean or unclean, they should eat. You can find that in the 11th chapter of Leviticus. And while the logic between some of these dietary laws sometimes seems pretty obvious, the reasons for other laws sometimes becomes less clear. On the one hand, the laws make sense, but if we're just looking for it makes sense to be our justification, we might be missing too, a little bit of the faith that the Lord is asking, asking us when it comes to living these commandments. Now, in verse four, the Lord explains that he's given this law of health specifically in consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days. So the law is specifically tailored to us to help us counter some of the forces that might harm us in our time and in the future. This I bring up because some people, some critics specifically deride the word of wisdom because in earlier dispensations, people like the Israelites or the Nephites or other people consumed wine, for instance. The Bible always counsels against the abuse of alcohol. For instance. If you go to the Book of Proverbs, verse 23, verse 20, it talks about not being a wine bibber. There's no prohibition in the biblical health codes against using wine. Like Jesus probably drank wine at the last supper. And sometimes I've heard members of the church do some mental gymnastics and say, well, actually that was just Grape juice. It was non alcoholic. I don't know if there's one way to prove it or the other, but if it was alcoholic, like it wasn't against the commandments that Jesus was living during that time.
- [32:15]
Scott
No prohibition about drinking wine in Jesus Day. Yeah.
- [32:18]
Casey
So we can separate what in the Word of Wisdom is timeless. You know, there's always been some kind of health code that the Lord gives to his disciples and what is timely. There's parts of the Word of Wisdom that clearly didn't apply in earlier dispensations. So I think Jesus did drink wine. And if it was alcoholic wine, that's okay with me. He was under no prohibition to do so. Likewise, we are living a different law than he was living. There's no prohibition for us to use pork or products made from other animals that the Lord said were unclean in the Old Testament. In fact, that's specifically lifted. That prohibition is lifted in the Book of Acts. But we are asked not to use substances such as wine that the ancient Israelites could use in moderation. And the reason for that is given right here in verse 4, that there are forces at work specifically in the latter days that the Lord is trying to counter. In Revelation, God also declares that he gave the Word of Wisdom to counter evil designs that will exist in the future. In Joseph Smith's time, for instance, it was unthought of to consider as harmful some of the most pernicious substances that the Word of Wisdom protects us against. And I would say section 89 is the foundation of a living commandment that's constantly being adjusted by church leaders to meet the needs of our time. It's likely that if we were to flash forward a century from now, the Word of Wisdom will look a little bit different because there will be new challenges, new substances, new things. That's why what's in section 89 is the foundation. But we also need to pay attention to what the current leaders of the church are saying so that we know how the Word of Wisdom should be lived and interpreted in our time. It's still growing, I guess you'd say.
- [33:58]
Scott
Yeah, in 1833 there were some conspiratorial fears. Like I mentioned, there was a widespread distrust of doctors. But then there's liquor merchants that were obviously making money off of people's addictions. They were distrusted as like morally and financially exploitative. That make sense. There were also concerns about industrial capitalism in the 1830s that would market in mass addictive substances. And of course we've taken that in the modern age to a scale to the nth degree from the 1830s. But that was a concern then, and we, we see that continuing to be an issue today that people are making money directly off of people's addictions. It's almost like an irresistible, irresistible temptation from like a capitalistic standpoint to not try to make money off of people's addictions, like. And so you see so many companies today that do that very thing. My sense is that that was the concern in the 1830s and it's more so a concern today.
- [34:56]
Casey
Yeah, it feels like that's only gotten worse. Right. As time has gone on.
- [35:00]
Scott
Let's move on now to verses 5, 6, and 7, which talk about alcohol. These would be right in alignment with the T temperance movement of that that day. Here's what the Lord says about that issue that's in the air at the time. Verse 5. That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold, it's not good, neither meat in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before Him. And behold this, the sacramental wine should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape, of the vine of your own man. Make again, there's that suspicion against the commercialism. Make sure it's homemade, he's saying here. And then verse seven. And again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies. So strong drinks in this case would be, in Joseph's context, something like whiskey. Let's think about these verses together. So verse five. This idea of prohibiting wine or strong drink except for sacramental purposes is interesting because we know that throughout the 19th century, latter day Saints did use wine in their sacrament services, with only a few exceptions, when wine was not available. This changes, as you noted in about 1906, when the First Presidency and the Twelve began using water instead of wine in the sacrament they administered to each other in their temple meetings. And then local congregations begin to follow this action shortly after. And the practice of using water for the sacrament soon becomes uniform throughout the church. And it's justified by section 27 of the Doctrine and Covenants, verses 1 and 2, where the Lord says, it mattereth not what you use for the sacrament, as long as you do it with an eye single to my, my glory and in remembrance of my body and my blood. Right? That's what matters. Whatever you use doesn't matter. Now, Joseph Smith strongly believed in the truths of the Word of wisdom, though, as I mentioned, he. He practiced a more relaxed application of the revelation, and particularly these verses than we observe in our day, like entries and journals, tell of him consuming wine, beer, sometimes in a more medicinal way, as a relief, but he did not consider a single drink as a violation of the commandment. We mentioned Carthage, jail and wine, so they could lift their spirits. But as you mentioned, like Joseph was strongly against drunkenness or the abuse of alcohol in any form. After hearing of a man freezing to death while under the influence of alcohol, Joseph lamented once in his journal, he said, oh my God, how long will this monster of intemperance find its victims on the earth? Close quote. On another occasion he counseled, quote, there is no excuse for any man to drink and get drunk in the Church of Christ.
- [37:40]
Casey
And that's kind of continued down to today, right? Joseph Smith counsels against this. That's our first prophet of this dispensation. It's pretty clear that today day, the current prophet of this dispensation, Russell M. Nelson, is still discussing and talking about this. For instance, President Nilsen on one occasion commented, the damaging effects of alcohol are so widely known, additional comment is hardly needed. So we've reached the point to where President Nelson is saying, yep. I mean, you don't have to have more than a pair of eyes to see that alcohol is damaging to a person. I don't really feel the need to comment on it further. Let's move on to another one. Verse 8. It reads again to back, taco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle to be used with judgment and skill. And this is another one of those things where though the word of Wisdom gradually went from being sound counsel to a commandment, a few Latter Day Saints did follow this revelation really closely almost immediately. So we also make an assumption in saying they didn't take the Word of Wisdom seriously at all. All some of them really did. For instance, in the School of the Prophets, the group that is immediately associated with this revelation, the men of the School of the Prophets apparently determined to follow the revelation whenever they were attending those meetings. So one writer who was talking about the School of the Prophets recorded when the word of Wisdom was first presented to the prophet Joseph as he came out of the translating room and was read to the school. There were 20 out of 21 who had used tobacco and they all immediately threw their tobacco and pipes into the fire. This is kind of neat, but actually, a couple years ago when they were doing archaeological excavations in Kirtland, we found evidence that this is true, even though this was a later reminiscence. Near the Whitney store in Kirtland, there was an ashery, which is another business that was operated by Newell K. Whitney. The ashery was used to produce products like potash or pearl ash and other valuable commodities. And it's likely that the ashes from the Whitney store ended up in this land location. So during an archaeological dig just south of the Kirtland ashri site, historian Mark Staker, who's a friend of ours, found a bunch of pipe fragments. So the story was verified through archaeology because the ashes from the Whitney store, where these guys had thrown their pipes into the furnace, were taken to the Ashrae and then are discovered there by Staker and his team years and years later.
- [40:11]
Scott
Do we know for sure that those pipe remnants were the pipes of the.
- [40:15]
Casey
Story or we don't, but one of them, which is a pipe stem, had the name Johnson stamped on it. And Luke and Lyman Johnson were both members of the school of the prophets. So it's a reasonable assumption, I guess, to say the fragments Mark mentioned are difficult to date precisely, but they are in a location that does approximately align with the date that's given. And given these factors, there's a good chance that some, if not all the pipe fragments came from the Whitney's fireplace. Like I said of the pipe stems has Johnson on it, which might have been Lyman Johnson, but absolute certainty isn't possible. But again, early sources and these archaeological sources indicate that, yeah, they didn't just say, okay, that's a good idea, that in some cases, like tobacco, some people immediately gave it up and started following it. So again, wide variance throughout the 19th century.
- [41:09]
Scott
Maybe we'll swing back around to tobacco being used for bruises and sediments. Sick cattle. When we talk about the controversies, let's go to verse nine. And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly. Hot drinks is a well understood euphemism in the 1830s New England area for tea and coffee, especially black tea and coffee. In an editorial published on June 1, 1842 in the church newspaper Times and Seasons, which is under Joseph Smith's editorial supervision, it reads, and again, hot drinks are not for the body or, or the belly. Then it says there are many who wonder what this can mean, whether it refers to tea or coffee or not. I say it does refer to tea and coffee, close quote. So we don't know if that was Joseph Smith who said that, but it's in the Times and Seasons which Joseph was the editorial supervisor over. So it seems to come with his blessing. Whether or not it is his words, I've heard that attributed to hierarchy. Hiram Smith, actually. Do we know Casey who, who actually said that?
- [42:12]
Casey
I don't know if we do. But like I said, as the editor of the Times and Seasons, Joseph Smith would have been aware of it and would have been okay with it. He would have had to have approved it before it was printed in an official church periodical.
- [42:23]
Scott
Now, little plot twist again. There was not a strict prohibition on coffee and tea when the saints first received this revelation. There is ample evidence that the saints in Joseph Smith's time continued to drink copies. Coffee and tea. Sometimes the use of coffee and tea was for what they called medicinal purposes, such as providing comfort to an exhausted traveler. Helen Marr Kimball Whitney. In one account that she wrote in 1881, she remembered making tea from river water during her early stay in Nauvoo because the local water sources were contaminated. She said, and remember that tea and coffee were seen even in the 1830s as like a little bit on the edge of the health reforms. But Sylvester Graham and others were out there condemning it because it stimulated the nerves and was potentially harmful morally. They said. And so the Lord is just in a really simple statement here says, yeah, they're not for the body. Take that as you will. Church members early on took that to mean moderation again. But over time, as we've mentioned, this becomes complete abstinence.
- [43:29]
Casey
This one's kind of tough because the corrosive effects of alcohol and tobacco are super obvious, right? I mean, it's just like President Nelson said, take a look. And we don't really need to comment further, but I do have a lot of people sometimes raise questions about hot drinks. Now, to that I'll say it seems clear that the early saints interpreted hot drinks to mean tea and coffee. And we mean dark tea. Tea can technically be anything that's steeped in hot water. And so if you put a dehydrated peach in your water, it's tea. But I don't necessarily think it's against the word of wisdom. Now again, another question that comes up sometimes is, well, what about like coffee flavored candy or coffee flavored ice cream or something like that? You can do this all the day long. Let me just mention official sources from the church. As late as August 2019, there was a message issued by the First Presidency concerning the word of wisdom. And these are the general principles that they give. They said this is the exact wording. Substances that are destructive, habit forming, or addictive should be avoided. So again, that's giving you a little agency on your own to decide what fits into those categories specifically. Then the statement goes on and clarifies. It says, church leaders have clarified that several substances are prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, including vaping or E cigarette cigarettes, which we mentioned a little bit earlier. It goes on to say green tea and coffee based products. They've also cautioned that substances such as marijuana and opioids should be used only for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a competent physician. That's the end of the First Presidency statement, by the way. But these changes demonstrate that the Word of Wisdom, like we mentioned, is a living revelation and the Lord is still offering clarifications, allowing prophets to give guidance, and we should expect further guidance down the road as of 2019. That's a list of things, some of which might be surprising, like opioids, which are another one of those things that's turning into an obvious, hey, this is clearly bad for you, but there can be legitimate reasons to use them, especially if it's prescribed by a doctor. It's just the abuse of it can be so harmful.
- [45:48]
Scott
Yeah. So anything addictive, anything, how do they say it, Destructive, habit forming or addictive, should be avoided. There's a nice clean principle, right? That's a nice clean principle which is not explicitly stated in section 89, but it seems to be getting at that idea. Right. And we could say that up to verse nine, these are some of the prohibitions of the Word of Wisdom. And now as we transition to verse 10 and going forward, it's now less about prohibition and more about admonitions to consume or to use. It says verse 10. And again, verily I say unto you all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature and use of man. Herbs here would be any sort of plants that they're using, especially in the 1830s, are using for medicinal purposes. Actually kind of the homeopathic kind of again, folk medicine type stuff they're using in Joseph's day. Herbs are big, they're front and center as a really be kind of a wise alternative to some of the quack medicine that's being practiced. Verse 11 goes on. Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof. All these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air. I the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving. Nevertheless, they are to be used sparingly, and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of Winter or of cold or famine. There you go. That's, I'd say, on the more positive side, right. Not every part of the word of wisdom prohibits dangerous substances. So this is more positive. And so the Lord here is simply giving a principle, I think, of good judgment, right. And gratitude. It's about judgment. It's about gratitude. Using the abundance of the earth with gratitude and with good judgment. We're talking about things that would promote your health, right?
- [47:41]
Casey
Another thing is that these verses, again the phrase we're using is living commandment, shows that some things have been given greater emphasis over time, like alcohol, tobacco and hot drinks, meaning coffee and tea. And other things have maybe been given lesser emphasis over time. For instance, it's clear from other revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants that the Lord allows the eating of meat and animal products. Like Section 49, for instance, says you shouldn't forbid people from eating meat. Now, if you choose to be vegan or vegetarian, that's your own decision. He's just saying don't forbid it for others. It's not a commandment from him. In section 89, there's a warning to eat meat sparingly. Or what's the language here? It's pleasing to me that they should not be used only in times of winter or of cold or of famine. And this is part of it, where, hey, let's figure out how to apply this in our time. But let's also look at it as an artifact of the time. Saying use meat sparingly might refer to the fact that from the data we have at the time Section 89 was given, the typical adult in the United States consumed about a pound of meat every single day. So meat consumption was generally higher than it is now. I don't know. I probably know some adults that consume a pound of meat every single day. But over time, this is still seen as good counsel, but it hasn't been emphasized the way church leaders emphasize alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea. In fact, this is kind of a personal thing to me. But the last time excessive meat consumption was mentioned by a prominent church leader came in a fiery sermon that was delivered by Apostle Joseph F. Merrill in 1945. And you know, Joseph F. Merrill is. I love him. He's my guy. I wrote a biography of Joseph F. Merrill. I spent years studying his papers. His journals on this subject, by the way, are fascinating. Like, he was really, really obsessed with the word of wisdom, as was his fellow Apostle John, a wicked widow. But since that time, there hasn't been an instance in General Conference where A leader of the church has really mentioned or even sort of covered the subject. And it's typically not mentioned as part of the Word of Wisdom in temple recommend interviews or when missionaries teach the principles. So I've never been in a temple recommended interview where they were like, do you observe the Word of Wisdom? And then leaned over and said, are you eating a lot of meat? And I don't know the reason for that. You know, sometimes I've wondered. It says in times of winter or, or famine and you know, in 1832, there's no such thing as a refrigerator. Maybe that's part of the reason why it hasn't been emphasized.
- [50:14]
Scott
Yeah, Maybe I could add a little bit of context. In the 1830s, like even, even the reformers who were like pushing hard against meat consumption would tolerate meat during the wintertime when plant foods were scarce. Right. And so this idea like, okay, in the winter maybe was kind of the extreme, extreme position of the reformers of the day. And it seems like again, the Lord is speaking into that context saying like, yeah, it's okay, and in the winter, you know, especially. Right. And so that is definitely an 1833 context. But as you said, meat was often linked to like gluttony or, and cruelty to animals, which early reformers were trying to overcome for like moral purification. And the Lord has pushed back against that. Like in section 49. Like you mentioned saying, no, it's okay to eat meat. Just do it wisely. Again, judgment and gratitude. That's what he says. Good judgment and gratitude are the guiding principles for meat consumption. If you're just out there killing animals for sport and then you're not using the meat, like, come on, think about it with wisdom. Think about it with judgment. Think about it with thanksgiving to God. It's just using, you know, common sense for how you use meat and don't waste it. That's what Section 49 adds to the conversation is don't waste, waste meat. Like, if you're going to kill the animal, then eat it. And then section 89 is adding again, in the 1833 context. Yeah, especially in the winter when these herbs, these plants that I've just mentioned, when fruit in the season thereof is not available in that season, then what do you do? That seems very timely to that time, Casey, because like you said, we've got refrigeration today, fruits in the season thereof. Like, I don't, I eat off season fruit all the time. Because we now know how to preserve it. We can can it. We can preserve the nutritional value the application of these particular verses will look very different in a modern context than it would into the immediate 1833 context.
- [52:06]
Casey
I think I have seen some people sort of really latch onto this verse as a way of getting their point across. Like, I remember People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. PETA had a big billboard in Salt Lake that had the wording, meat should be eaten sparingly on it. And if they want to use it that way, more power to them. Right? It's in the Doctrine and Covenants. But we also have to look at the full context of the revelations. And Section 49, you know, says, don't forbid people from eating meat. So again, this is one of those ones that shows that some parts of the Word of Wisdom were emphasized more strongly and some parts really haven't been. And as a living commandment, we keep our eye on the current leaders of the Church to understand interpretation of the Word of wisdom in our time.
- [52:48]
Scott
The Lord's not quite done verse 14 and 15 with this idea of meat. He'll go to grain, but then he comes back to meat. Like, watch this. He says, verse 14, all grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts to be the staff of life, not only for man, but for the beasts of the field and for the fowls of heaven and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth. And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. So it seems like he's talking again about the animals, about using them in times of famine and excess of hunger. But then he says, all grain is good for the food of man. Also the fruit of the vine, that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground, nevertheless. And then he gives this really interesting specificity, breakdown of grain. Wheat for man, corn for the ox, oats for the horse, rye for the fowls, and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals and for mild drinks, as also other grain. That's kind of the grain breakdown with a little bit of eating of the animals. There again, at the end of verse.
- [53:48]
Casey
15, the phrase I latched onto here was excess of hunger, which. That's open to interpretation, right? Like the other day, I was feeling an excess of hunger, so I got a bacon cheeseburger and it solved my problem. So again, I guess that's part of the reason why this has been left largely open to individual interpretations. I know some people that have completely abstained from meat, and a lot of times they do it for very, very good health and scientific reasons. But at the same time, too, this is one of those things where let's all get along. People have different ways of doing the word of wisdom. And what the leaders of the church have asked for compliance with is alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and harmful drugs. So again, everybody out there, if you're vegan, vegetarian, or if you are eating a steak right now, God bless you in the way that you choose to live the word of wisdom.
- [54:40]
Scott
And by the way, using barley for mild drinks, some have pointed out that isn't that where beer comes from? Like, isn't beer a mild drink that comes from barley? And the answer is, yeah, yeah. In Joseph Smith's day, they had this mild fermented drink. I think they called it small beer, which had very low alcohol content. It was a very common frontier beverage. And Joseph Smith sometimes drank that. Now, is that justification for you to run out and buy a six pack? Like, I don't think so. I think the modern church is. Has been very clear, right? No alcohol now, but that mild drinks from barley is there. And you can definitely interpret it that way. And seems like Joseph Smithed it.
- [55:22]
Casey
Okay, let's go to the last couple verses, because these are crucial too. Verse 18. All Saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones, and shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden, hidden treasures. And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint. And I the Lord, give unto them a promise that the destroying angel shall pass them by as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen. This is the promissory parts of the revelation, Right? And I would just say that what's being said here not only applies to the word of wisdom, though it's specifically being put in that context. It applies to every commandment that God has given to us. It's common for Latter Day Saints to sort of highlight the physical blessings that come from a abstaining from the substances prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. But the Lord in these verses also promises spiritual blessings to those who listen to this commandment and follow it. The provisions of the Word of Wisdom bring knowledge in addition to good health, he says. And we should also keep in mind that though we tend to think of the word of Wisdom as a physical commandment, again in the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord continually says there's no difference between a physical and a spiritual commandment. Quoting an earlier revelation to Joseph Smith, this is section 2935. My commandments are spiritual. They are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual. And sometimes we try to sell the Word of Wisdom by emphasizing the natural consequences. Like, hey, scientifically, it's a good idea to not drink alcohol, but the Lord is saying it's a spiritual commandment too. Like, there's dimensions to it that maybe we don't appreciate. And over time, a lot of the provisions of the Word of Wisdom have been demonstrated to have clear health benefits. But the practical blessings of the Word of Wisdom are evident when people obey this law. It's difficult for us to see the spiritual benefits of the Word of Wisdom, which I believe there's a lot of spiritual benefits that come from it. And some things we've been asked to use just to show our faith in the Savior and our trust in him and following the guidance that he's given to us.
- [57:31]
Scott
Yeah, it's interesting because verse two says explicitly showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days. Like, okay, this is a temporal commandment. Got it. And then he ends verses 18 through 21 giving this list of spiritual blessings. So it's like, well, which is it? Is it spiritual or temporal? And I think your answer is great. Yeah, the Lord doesn't really draw really clean lines between temporal and spiritual. It's like, yeah, it's kind of of. It's both. Yeah, great point.
- [58:00]
Casey
So let's talk controversies. Jesus probably drank wine, and that's okay. The Word of Wisdom gradually increased in importance. That's clear from the historical record. But another controversy could be the context of these revelations. For instance, some of the council in the world Word of Wisdom fits comfortably into the 1833 context in which the Word of Wisdom was given. But they're scientifically outdated now, so we tend to loud stuff like don't use alcohol or tobacco because those have both been proven to be dangerous substances to a person's health. But there's other things in the Word of Wisdom that seems like they reflect the context of the time, but might not necessarily be the case today, might not have been borne out by science. So how do we reconcile the context of the Word of Wisdom and things, things that seem like they exist in the context with what we know now about health and the body and how things work?
- [58:58]
Scott
Yeah. And to really highlight the question, let me just use two concrete examples, like the counsel in the Word of Wisdom that says, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle to be used with judgment and skill. That's the language. So in that we like to ferret out, there's a true principle here, right? Like tobacco is harmful to human health. We know that scientifically, overwhelmingly, we know it's carcinogenic. We know it'll cause damage vascularly right in your lungs. Like, we know that. Latter Day Saints, we like to tout that and be like, see? Booyah vindicated. But then there's this uncomfortable stuff about cows and bruises and medical consensus today I had to do a little deep dive research on this and found like, no, like, that's, that's actually not that, that's not true. It is not recommended in veterinary medicine medicine for sick cows. Nor are bruises benefited by putting any sort of tobacco on the bruise. Like what they would do in Joseph's day is they called it a poultice. They would get tobacco, kind of grind it up, put it with some water, kind of mix it up, and then they put kind of a salve on the, on the bruise, that kind of a thing. And the Lord here is saying, yep, that's good. But medical consensus today says, no, that's not good. Like topical tobacco application to bruising will actually cause skin irritation and it introduces carcinogens into the system. Like, it can impair wound healing, it can restrict blood flow and it can increase infection risk. And in terms of cows, like what they would sometimes do in Joseph's day is they would put tobacco in the hay for the cows to ingest and they would do this to sometimes try to address like worms and stuff like that the cows would get. But veterinary science today says, no, that's, this is, this is a bad idea. Don't do that. There is no use for tobacco in livestock treatment. They use other more effective medicine today to get the worms out. Then the other one that's maybe a little more like controversial is the idea of coffee and tea. Like modern science will tell us that over consumption of any sort of stimulant, including caffeine, can affect our sleep, our anxiety, our heart rate. I even read recently that too much coffee consumption can actually affect bone structure and can make your bones weaker. However, there is no credible medical evidence today that shows that moderate consumption of coffee or tea is harmful. And they usually define moderate as four cups of coffee or tea and less per day. Right. And in fact, to the contrary, they found that black and green tea and coffee have been linked to reduced cardiovascular disease, lower all cause mortality, they say, improved cognitive function, function and reducing the risk of type 2 diabetes and Parkinson's. And so the consensus medically is that moderate coffee and tea consumption is not harmful and can even be beneficial. So that's probably the one I've heard the most when we're talking controversies, people pushing back is, is coffee and tea. It's like, what about the science that now says it's good for you actually not harmful if you use it moderately. But there was a little bit of a time period when I heard that about wine. People would say like a glass of d of wine is good for your heart. But that's actually been updated. Like recent studies like in the last couple years have said like, no, the only safe level of alcohol consumption honestly for your heart or any part of your body is 000 alcohol. That's, that's, that's the modern medical like, so, so alcohol in the word of wisdom is like aged really, really well. It's like, yeah, it's not good. But coffee and tea, oh, that's different. And then you've got, and then you've got, you know, this, this, this tobacco for cows and bruises stuff that's like, okay, that didn't age very well. From an 1833 context, that made sense, but in our context it doesn't make as much sense. So what do we do about that? How would a faithful member sort of work through this?
- [62:35]
Casey
I love the way you phrased the council about alcohol has aged really well. I was expecting you to say the council about alcohol has aged like a fine wine.
- [62:46]
Scott
Fine wine.
- [62:48]
Casey
The alcohol one is actually the one that has been brought up the most over the course of my career as a religious educator. I remember as a student teacher having a 10th grader say, well, you know, science says that one glass of wine is good for your heart. And like you said, that's been disproven since I would say this one. We tend to explain the word of wisdom a lot of times by pointing out the health benefits that come from it. And that is understandable. And, and it is a major indication that the word of wisdom is from God is that a lot of that has proven out to be true. But I sometimes wonder if we do a disservice by only talking about it in those terms. For instance, the last couple verses of the word of Wisdom specifically seem to evoke the symbolism of the book of Exodus. The whole I give unto them a promise. This is verse 21. The destroying angel shall pass by them as the children of Israel and not slay them. Amen. That's taken directly from the book of Exodus from the idea of Passover, where the Israelites put the blood of a lamb on their doorway and then the destroying angel passed them by. Now there's no scientific consensus on the blood of a lamb preventing anybody from getting sick or anybody from dying or anything like that. It was something that the Lord asked them to do as a sign and show of obedience. And I'll be honest with you, there probably are things that are way more harmful than coffee and tea that aren't restricted by the word of wisdom. Health wise, I'd worry more about somebody that slams like ten energy drinks every single day than somebody that drinks four cups of tea. But the principles in the Word of Wisdom are not scientific, to be honest with you. They are spiritual. They're meant to be a test of our faithfulness. In my work. I work a lot with other restoration churches and there's very few of them, honestly. The fall, the provision on tea and coffee. I've gone to meetings where we meet with members of Community of Christ, for instance, and they drink coffee and they sit there and basically say, what's the deal? Why don't you guys drink coffee? And our answer is because it's against the word of wisdom. And their rejoinder has been basically, well, it's not bad for you. And it's. It seems like they've taken that scientific consensus to be the word of wisdom. And they're great people. They don't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. And I genuinely appreciate the fact that they do that. They've never pressured me to drink coffee. But they have brought this up as a legitimate question. And that seems to indicate that maybe I'm painting with too broad a brush here, but their adherence to the word of wisdom is based solely on reason. And all commandments are based on reason and faith. Some things we do because the Lord asked us not to do and not because there is a scientific consensus on it.
- [65:40]
Scott
So what I'm hearing you say, Casey, is that like coffee and tea may be to us what like pork was to the ancient Israelites, that it was forbidden, but not for any scientific reason. Am I understanding you right? Like, what would you say to that comparison?
- [65:56]
Casey
That's the way I genuinely view it, is there's not a scientific to a consensus that it's harmful. But the Lord has asked us, and not just in section 89, but repeatedly through the leadership of the church. And it's okay for the leadership of the church to look at these things and review them from time to time and say, is this still necessary? But it's clear that in our time they're still emphasizing the Lord doesn't want us to use coffee and tea. So for me, it's not only wise, it's a word of wisdom, but it's also an act of faith that I abstain from those things. My faith has been brought up more because of coffee and tea than any other substance. I've never gone to a conference where I was with people from other faiths where they asked me to use tobacco or drink alcohol. But there have been people that have been like, do you want to go get a cup of coffee? Or something like that. And it's given me occasion to say, well, actually in my church we don't drink tea and coffee, but I'd be happy to go along, get a smoothie or something like that with you.
- [66:54]
Scott
Do you think there could be too something about, like, the Lord's accommodating the understanding of the time? Like, I'm thinking of like, 2 Nephi 31, 3, where he says, he speaketh unto men according to their language and to their understanding. Like, if in 1833 there's this, like, prevalent folk medicine of like, putting tobacco on bruises and for sick cattle, for instance, the Lord just affirms, he's like, yeah, do that. That's. It's like he's accommodating their worldview even while nudging them toward, like, better habits by saying, like, don't ingest tobacco. Like, that's the piece that's going to really be the most helpful. But if you want to continue with the folk medicine practices, like, okay, that's fine. Like, is there, Is there room for, like, divine accommodation? Kind of like in the Bible when it talks about, like, the four corners of the earth? We know there's not four corners. Like the earth is. You know, it uses a biblical cosmology and the Lord just like, speaks in that context to try to move people forward toward progress. Is there something to say for that type of explanation?
- [67:56]
Casey
Yeah, because using tobacco for bruises or cattle isn't immediately life threatening, is it? And it turned out to not be a huge problem in the church that we've had to overcome. And so I do think there's a little give and take and that that language in section one is so valuable where the Lord says, I speak unto men according to their own language and their own understanding. I'm okay with that because again, it hasn't proven to be consequential in the history of the church that he said that. And he's sort of meeting them halfway from where they're at. So it doesn't bother me at all. The important portions of the Word of Wisdom have been emphasized and re emphasized over and over and over again by leaders of the church. At this point, we kind of know, hey, what's crazy critical and what's good counsel here? And I haven't had occasion to feed my cattle tobacco, because I own no cattle or tobacco. But at the time, people did.
- [68:45]
Scott
Yeah. I almost feel comfortable saying something like this. Like, yes, you can see some of the 1833 cultural assumptions in this revelation, like the use of tobacco for animals, etc. But the enduring value of this revelation lies in its call to temperance. Right. Good judgment, discipline, discernment, good health, obedience to God, trusting God. The ultimate thrust and, like, direction of the revelation leads us to a better place, unquestionably. Right. Like, let's just get you to a better place and I'll accommodate your current understanding. Like, is he doing that? Maybe. I hope that's okay.
- [69:22]
Casey
I think that's totally fine.
- [69:23]
Scott
Okay. Another controversy for you, Casey. I'll be interested in your thoughts. So today in Word of Wisdom interviews, the question goes exactly, exactly like this. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom? It's a simple yes, no question, and you say yes, we move on, you say no, and the ecclesiastical leader will probably dig a little deeper. But what we know is really being asked, Casey, is. Is not the whole of section 89. You're not being asked, like, do you use tobacco for bruises or sick cattle? Do you eat fruit in the season thereof? You know, like, someone's not going to say, say, well, I have pineapple sometimes in the winter. And, you know, I know that's not really the season of pineapple. Like, nobody thinks that's what's being asked. Right. Everybody knows what's being asked is alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, drugs, the end. Right. So I guess the controversy is, should the Temple recommend question be more specific? Should we stop saying word of Wisdom and just ask specifically about those substances? Like, if that's what we're really getting at, why not just ask that? Rather than confuse people by like, well, sometimes I eat too much meat or sometimes I don't exercise as much as I should, and, you know, having to say, well, that's not what we're asking. Should the Temple recommend question be changed to more accurately reflect what's really being asked? I think that's the question.
- [70:40]
Casey
Yeah. Now, obviously, this is way above our pay grade. Right. It's the first presidency in the 12 that determine those Questions. But I would say a lot of thought goes into those, those questions. And my own judgment as someone that's asked those questions and been asked those questions, is that no, it probably should stay the way that it is, partially because I don't think anybody comes into a temple recommend interview assuming that the word of wisdom is just section 89 of the doctrine and Covenants. That's part of it, that's the foundation of it. But the word of wisdom is a whole bunch of things, right? And if we were to define the word of wisdom, I'd probably say the health practices of the church, the health practices recommended by the church. But danger sometimes in an interview setting where we over define things for people, for instance, we ask, do you live the law of chastity? And I wouldn't want to get more specific than that, unless a person demonstrates a desire to go there and discuss maybe specifics about it, even in the way you phrased it right now, which was coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco and drugs. What do we mean by drugs? Not all drugs are against the world word of wisdom. The phrasing is usually harmful drugs. And even that is an invitation to a greater discussion. What's a harmful drug? And are there situations where, let's say, an opioid can be used responsibly in a way that's prescribed and supervised by a physician, and other ways that it can be a clear violation of the word of wisdom? I think that the questions have been put together in such a careful way that they promote discussion and that they invite greater discussion. And if a person, person came in and said, you know, I said, do you live the word of wisdom? And they were something like, well, I ate a pineapple and it wasn't in season. I would lean over and say, can you explain what the word of wisdom means to you? And then we would have a discussion with them. So I think the way that it's phrased right now leaves us open to not be too rigid in the way that we define the word of wisdom and allow people some leeway. Like, I wouldn't deny a temple recommend to somebody who ate more than a pound of me meat a day, for instance, but also to have the opportunity to teach.
- [72:51]
Scott
What if they had a drink of coffee last week, but they don't do it very much?
- [72:55]
Casey
That would be another one of those situations where I can't tell you what I would do because I don't know the individual's whole story. But I would be leaning towards saying, is there a way to completely abstain from Coffee and we'd have that discussion and talk about the circumstances of their life and what's going on. That's part of the beauty of, of the way the interview system works in the church is those questions have been carefully crafted for us to have an instrument to lead a discussion that accounts to worthiness, that helps them understand it.
- [73:26]
Scott
Why do you feel like the Word of Wisdom is so big and it's not just section 89?
- [73:30]
Casey
You're more legalistic than me. And that is one thing that I like about you is you read the text and you focus on the text and it's the text, the text, the text. I'm more interested in practice. And it's clearly in practice bigger than just section 89 because to be honest with you, is cocaine against the Word of Wisdom? The phrase harmful drugs doesn't appear anywhere in section 89 of the doctrine of Covenants. And if a person came into me and said, hey, last night I was totally high on cocaine, I wouldn't give them a temple recommend. Right. And so it's clear that in practice among Latter Latter Day Saints, the Word of Wisdom is bigger than Section 89. And that's why my view is that Section 89 is the foundation, but it's not the sole representative of the teaching that we call the Word of Wisdom. There's a whole bunch of teachings that aren't necessarily found in the Scriptures but that the leaders of the Church have deemed important to add to the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom doesn't mention marijuana, it doesn't mention opioids, it doesn't, it doesn't mention vaping, it doesn't mention green tea, it doesn't mention coffee based products. And yet all of Those things in 2019 the first presidency said are violations of the Word of Wisdom. So I mean, legalistic, yeah, that's the text. But in practice, any Latter Day Saint would say using cocaine is against the Word of Wisdom, even though it's not in section 89. So let's just be real here. In practice, what we do as the Word of Wisdom is way more than what's in section section 89. The reason why the question is phrased the way that it is is because there are total abstinence portions of the Word of Wisdom and then there are portions or principles of the Word of Wisdom that a person has to interpret on their own. You know, saying in the like the First Presidency 2019 statement that it's against anything that's addictive or habit forming. Yeah, there's stuff that's not alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea or harmful drugs. That is addictive and habit forming. That could be violations of the word of wisdom. But part of that we're asked to totally abstain from, and part of it is left up to our own interpretation as to how it works. If a person, for instance, overeats all the time, you know, is addicted to food, there's a lot of stuff a person can be addicted to that's not described in the word of wisdom. And when we ask, do you live the word of wisdom? Yeah. We're asking, are there addictions that are destructive or habit forming in your life?
- [75:58]
Scott
So why not ask that? Just why not just say that? Say, are there any addictive or habit forming substances in your life?
- [76:05]
Casey
All the temple recommend questions are that way. Even something like the law of tithing, which seems like a strict yes or no question in one situation. And I won't mention any names here. I had somebody say, well, I don't pay 10% of my income to the church, but I believe in the law of tithing. And that invited more discussion. For instance, I said, well, okay, tell me what's going on? And it was, my husband is not a Latter Day Saint. He is in charge of finances and has forbidden me from paying tithing. And I basically said, well, if you could and it wouldn't cause strain in your marriage, would you be paying tithing? She said, yes. I said, okay, I feel okay about it. That phrasing of the question opened the door for more discussion. And temple recommend interviews are supposed to be a format for learning and discussion and exploration of gospel principles. Like, we're not just testing somebody and we're not trying to get them through a legalistic set of questions. We're trying to genuinely figure out how they're doing and if they are worthy to make these sacred covenants with God that a person makes in the temple. And we can't be overly legalistic. There is a letter of the law and a spirit of the law. The Savior said, the letter killeth the spirit, giveth life. And that's why I think the questions are phrased the way that they are. But because they give life to these principles, they open the door for learning and discussion and furtherance of observance.
- [77:28]
Scott
I'm in a bishopric right now and I'm always tempted when I ask that question. When I say, do you understand and follow the word of wisdom? When they say yes, I want to say like, so, like, what do you understand? Like, what do you understand it to be? Like, I want to Hear, I want to hear your understanding. Because I'm sure out of 100 interviews like there would be a, a hundred different levels of understanding of the Word of wisdom. But I am not instructed as an officer of the church to ask that follow up question. It's just a yes or no question. Let the person have that self reflective moment and then we move on to the next question. So it's like in the spirit of wanting to be helpful, not like in the spirit of like the Spanish Inquisition.
- [78:06]
Casey
Like I admire you for your mind and the way that you really pay attention to words, but you can see the difference danger there. Getting too specific about what is the word of wisdom is eventually going to lead us to saying things like how many grams of caffeine did you consume this week? Or how many steps did you take on the Sabbath day? That's the road that the people in Jesus Day went down, is they wanted everything to be exactly pinned down and know the precise meaning of everything. And that's a recipe for disaster because it eventually causes the sort of thing that Jesus was continually fighting against, where people were not trying to find the limits to the commandments so that they could obey them, but they wanted to know how close to the line they could get without stepping over it. It wasn't about living the Commandments, it was about, hey, how far can I go before I break the commandments? And I think any definition of the Word of Wisdom that gets too legalistic is leading us down that road.
- [79:02]
Scott
And you see that spirit in Joseph Smith when he's instructing Bishop Partridge about how to assess whether or not people are donating their surplus for the law of consecration during this time period. Right. And I've always been struck by his letter where he says, we're not going to probe deeply. We're not, I'm paraphrasing, we're not going to get into great particulars and asking people and doing audits of like, really, was it surplus? Or like, was this all the surplus? Like, could you have donated? More like, Joseph Smith would never go there. He thought this was between you and the Lord. And the question was, are you donating your surplus? And if people said yes, Joseph's inclination was to trust them and to move on. And I see that same spirit, like you're saying in the, in the temple recommend questions today, this is a moment for the individual to reflect about their relationship with God. And that's it. Like, we are not to descend, I think Joseph said, to great particulars and taking inventories and that kind of thing, because I think it does lead to the dangers that you're talking about. So I totally agree with. With that point that you're making, Casey. And that is the beauty of the temple recommend interview as I see it. I like your response. This has been. This has been good. Thank you for indulging me in this question.
- [80:21]
Casey
It's fun to have discussions like this. It's useful.
- [80:23]
Scott
All right, Casey, let's talk consequences of section 8, 89. Was section 89 consequential, Casey, and if so, how?
- [80:36]
Casey
Oh, hugely consequential. Right. It's felt by every member of the church today. You have to agree to live the Word of Wisdom before you can be baptized a member of the church. You have to review the Word of Wisdom with your bishop when you get a temple recommend. And I would say outside of the question, like, can you. Can you not drink alcohol or one of those other things is one of the most common ways that members of the church are identified. I don't know very many Latter Day Saints who don't have a story where they had to explain to people that they don't use these substances by invoking their religion, myself included. And I grew up in Utah in a town where most people were Latter Day Saints. And honestly, in high school, never got offered drugs or alcohol or anything like that. One experience that stands out in my mind is when I, when I first came to the university, I was invited to go to a conference in Taiwan. So we go to Taiwan, and this conference is the Pacific History Association. Wonderful, wonderful group of people. But it was my first sort of big conference where the majority of the people weren't Latter Day Saints. I remember one guy saying, after this is over, we're going to hit some sleazy bars and stuff like that. And I just sort of was like, well, I'm not going to do that. And then when I was directing, confronted by it when we were traveling on a bus. So we're going up to see a traditional Taiwanese fishing village. And the guide on the bus saw a guy on the side of the road who was selling some betel nuts. And betel nuts are a mild narcotic. And I had no idea. I had no clue what they were. And they just purchased a bag from this guy on the side of the road, start passing back in the bus. Everybody starts throwing them in their mouth, chewing them. And I took one, and this little Japanese guy sitting next to me who spoke barely any English, his name was Hiro, grabs my hand and goes, momen no eat. And I was like, am I not supposed to eat this? And he goes, momen no eat. And I turned to another guy who spoke English, and he said, yeah, this will give you a little bit of a buzz. And so I didn't eat it. And I turned to my Japanese friend and I was like, hey, thanks, man. I really appreciate this. And he goes, moaman no eat.
- [82:44]
Scott
And his name was Hero. I mean, he is the hero of the story. Hiro. Oh, oh, oh.
- [82:49]
Casey
We get to the village, and it turns out the main thing that the village makes is millet wine, which is an alcoholic substance. And that night, everybody on the bus got totally drunk except for me and Hiro. We kind of just sat in the corner conversing as much as we could. I got enough out of Hiro to find out that when he was very young, he did a year study abroad in the United States. Obviously, he hadn't kept up, up on his English, but I did get enough out of him to find out that he had gone to Idaho and that he had stayed with a Latter Day Saint family, and that's how he knew. And so you know what? Their adherence to the Word of Wisdom saved me from doing something that might have violated my covenants. Now, I would have violated them in ignorance, but I still don't think anybody wants to see me on narcotics. And I'm grateful for that. Like, we are recognized because of this, and it sets us apart. And I recognize that sometimes it sets us apart in a painful way that can feel like you're being marginalized. But it's also one of those things that I have such a testimony of, that the Word of Wisdom blesses lives and helps people and keeps them away from substances that just have been shown again and again to not just be physically harmful, but to be spiritually, emotionally, in every way harmful. I'm really, really grateful, grateful for this. And the consequences in my life have been immense.
- [84:08]
Scott
This is one of those revelations that touches down into the life of every Latter Day Saint, right? Not only making us a distinct people, but like, this is brought up probably more than any other revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants to us at temple recommends, right? We're asked, do you understand and live the Word of Wisdom? Like this is a repeated revelation that we are reminded of and it gives us access to the temple test today. So serious consequences in the lives of every member of the church who's temple bound. Right?
- [84:36]
Casey
Wow. There was a lot to talk about in section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants. And I think you and I have been wanting to talk about it for a long time. This has been a good discussion. This is probably where we'll stop our first episode. And in the next episode, we'll pick up with three other really important revelations. That's section 90, 91 and 92 of the doctrine and Covenants. So we hope you'll join us for that, that discussion. And we'll see you in the next episode.
- [84:59]
Scott
We'll see you then.