B (1:55)

And it's going to play into, like you said in our earlier episode, the theme over the next few weeks, which is the church leaders managing this crisis that happens in Missouri, these organized persecutions, the first organized persecutions of the church.

A (2:10)

Yeah. So maybe we should just dive right into that because that sets us up for the first c. Tell us what's going on, Casey. What's the context here?

B (2:21)

Partly. P. Pratt is one of our key sources in understanding what's going on in Missouri. And this is the way he describes it. He says by the summer of 1833, immigration had poured into Jackson county, Missouri, in great numbers, and the chur in that county now numbered upward of 1,000 souls. So there's a rapid increase in the number of church members in Missouri. And in July 1833, two letters, one from Oliver Cowdery and one from the Brethren composing the school, arrived in Kirtland. Neither of these letters still exist today, or at least we don't know where they're at. But from the context in these letters, it appears that the saints in Missouri desired Joseph Smith to ask the Lord for revelation concerning the school in Zion. So they're supposed to be building the school in Missouri. Response? Joseph Smith and other church leaders inquired and received this revelation, which was sent to the members of the church in Missouri as part of a larger letter that also contained two more revelations that are now doctrine and covenants 94 and 98, just like you mentioned. So the revelation in section 97 follows up on earlier plans sent to members of the church in Zion, instructing them to build a temple and begin laying plans for the city of Zion. This revelation contains some pretty strong warnings that if the saints did not heed these commandments and begin work on the temple, they might face severe trials. In fact, this is the language the Lord uses. He says, the axe is laid at the root of the trees, and every tree that bringeth forth not good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire. That's verse seven of section 97. Strong words. Now, the other wrinkle is, at the time the revelation was given, the leaders of the church in Kirtland didn't know that violence against the saints had already broken out in Missouri. On July 20, 1833, an armed mob that was sanctioned by the state lieutenant governor. This is a guy whose name is going to pop up a lot. Lilburn W. Boggs sent a demand to church members to leave Jackson County. Boggs is kind of like the big villain in early church history. Under his direction, this demand is sent to tell church leaders they've got to leave Jackson County. And then the mob ransacked the home of William W. Phelps, destroyed the unbound copies of the Book of Commandments and this earlier version of the Doctrine and Covenants that are inside the printing office inside the Phelps home. The mob also throws the printing press from the upper window of the house. While this is happening, John Whitmer and some other church employees managed to save the manuscript revelation books. These earliest Sources for the Doctrine and Covenants. And Phelps, along with a couple other church members, saved some of the printed copies of the Revelations. In fact, this is when that famous story happens, where during the confusion, two little girls, Mary Elizabeth Rollins and her sister Caroline, run in. They pick up a bunch of unbound copies of the Revelations, and then they hide in a nearby cornfield to escape the mob. So church printing office is destroyed. Only a short distance away is a store operated by the church. This is operated by Newell K. Whitney's partner, Sidney Gilbert. The mob plunders the store, and then they tar and feather bishop Edward Partridge and another man named Charles Allen. They continue on this rampage until church leaders, under the threat of more violence from the mob, signed an agreement for all the saints to leave Jackson county by January 1, 1834. And so, seeking help, the saints of Missouri send Oliver Cowdery to travel to Ohio to seek assistance. Now, it is possible that Joseph Smith may have known of the trouble brewing in Jackson county from a letter now lost that Oliver Cowdery wrote to him on July 9. However, given the way communications worked during the time, it's impossible that Joseph could have known that the storm had broken in its full fury upon the saints by August 6, when Joseph sends a letter containing Doctrine and Covenants 94, 97, and 98 to the saints in Zion. So the warnings in this revelation take on a more poignant tone, knowing that the Lord was aware of the extreme danger that the saints in Missouri are facing.

A (6:30)

Yeah, this makes section 97 and certain pieces of it pretty prophetic, I think. So the content of section 97 begins like this. Verse 1. Verily I say unto you, my friends, I speak unto you those in Kirtland with my voice, even the voice of my spirit, that I may show unto you my will concerning your brethren in the land of Zion, many of whom are truly humble and are seeking diligently to learn wisdom and define truth. Verse 2. Verily I say unto you, blessed are such, for they shall obtain. For I, the Lord, show mercy unto all the meek and upon all whomsoever I will, that I may be justified when I shall bring them unto judgment. While this revelation generally reproves the saints in Missouri, like the Lord does, begin gently right as we see as we go on, there's going to be some rebukes. But this is a gentle beginning where he's just proclaiming that many of them are truly humble. Many of them are seeking to learn wisdom and find truth. And among the Missouri saints specifically, who should be commended for their Integrity in the face of persecutions were two of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon. We're talking about Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. Like one church member, William mcclellan, who was in jackson county during the persecutions, he later recounted this. He said, quote, In 1833, when the mobbing reigned triumphant in Jackson county, Missouri, I and Oliver fled from our homes for fear of persecut personal violence. They offered $80 reward for anyone who would deliver Cowdery or McClellan. In Independence, I slipped down into the Whitmer's settlement and there in the lonely woods, I met with David Whitmer and Oliver cowdery. I said to them, brethren, I have never seen an open vision in my life. But you men say you have, and therefore you positively know now you know that our lives are in danger every hour if the mob can only catch us. So tell me, in the fear of God, is the book of Mormon true? He says, cowdery looked at me with solemnity depicted in his face and he said, brother William, God sent his holy angel to declare the truth of the translation to us. And therefore we know. And though the mob kill us, yet we must die declaring its truth. David Whitmer then said, oliver has told you the solemn truth, for we could not be deceived. I most truly declare to you it's truth. Then McClellan said to them, boys, I believe you. I can see no object for you to tell me falsehood now when our lives are endangered. That's so cool.

B (8:55)

McClellan also has an encounter with one of the other witnesses of the book of Mormon. This is Hyrum Page. So he records this too. He says while the mob was raising in Jackson County, Missouri in 1833, some young men ran down Hiram Page in the woods, one of the eight witnesses, and commenced beating and pounding him with whips and clubs. He begged, but there was no mercy. But finally one of them said to if you will deny that book, we will let you go. Said he, how can I deny what I know to be true? Then they pounded him again, and when they thought he was about to breathe his last, they said to him, now what do you think of your God? And when he don't save you? Well, said he, I believe in God. Well said one of the most intelligent among them, I believe the fool will stick to it though we kill him. Let us let him go. But his life was nearly run out. He was confined to his bed for a length of time. So much for a man who knows for himself is beyond faith or Doubt it is positive certainty. So it seems like the first part of this revelation is addressing they are sticking to their guns like they are standing up for their witness of the truth. And that is commendable. The Saints later on are going to be rebuked for their transgressions. That happens in section 101. But I think it's important here, Scott, to just keep in mind that the Lord is commending them for being faithful to their testimony. And the persecutions come about through a mixture of the Saints transgressions and the bigotry intolerance of the original settlers of Jackson county, who saw the infusion of Saints into the region as a threat to their political power. So this is. I mean, you've got a bunch of people moving down from the north of the United States. Missouri is a slave state. They have weird ideas about how the Native Americans are part of the House of Israel. But the big kicker seems to be that their numbers were multiplying and the Missourians realized that they were going to lose political control of the situation.

A (10:51)

To that point, Parley P. Pratt actually wrote, quote, the portion of the inhabitants of Jackson county which did not belong to the church became jealous of our growing influence and numbers. Political demagogues were afraid that we should rule the county. And religious priests and bigots felt we were powerful rivals and about to excel all other societies in the state in numbers and in power and influence. These feelings, Parley continues, and the false sentiments and influences growing out of them gave rise to the organization of a company of outlaws whose avowed object was to drive the Church of the Saints from the county. So you're right. It's not just that the Saints blew it. Right? Like verse one says, many of the Saints, many of them are humble. Many of them, how does the Lord say it? Are truly humble and are seeking diligently to learn wisdom and find truth. Sometimes I think we tell this story by saying, well, the Lord gave them commandments, they blew it, and so they got kicked out the of Jackson County. But it's more complicated than that. There's bigotry, as you said, and there's also many good Saints who are doing really good things and the Lord is pleased with them. But it's a mix.

B (11:56)

Yeah, and I think we mentioned this before, but Jackson county was maybe the most difficult place that he possibly could have asked them to build Zion. But there's a reason why the Lord asks people to do things and a reason behind the location. So this prologue is kind of commending the church like in verses three through six, you're going to note, he says, now I say unto you concerning the school in Zion, and also my servant Parley Puprat. For he abideth in me so all good things. As he continueth to abide in me, he shall continue to preside over the school in the land of Zion until I shall give unto him other commandments. And I will bless him with a multiplicity of blessings and expounding the Scriptures and mysteries to the edification of the school and to the church in Zion and to the residue of the school. I, the Lord, am willing to show mercy. Nevertheless, there are those that must needs be chastened, and their work shall be made known. So he's cueing us up for the next part of the Revelation where he's going to talk about what's going wrong. But first, just a little bit about this school. So Parley P. Pratt had set up a school to the elders in accordance with instructions given in section 88. Parley later writes about this school. He says, this class, to the number of about 60, met for instruction once a week. The place of meeting was the open air under some tall trees in a retired place in the wilderness, where we prayed, preached and prophesied and exercised ourselves in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Here great blessings were poured out and many great and marvelous things were manifested and taught. The Lord gave me great wisdom and enabled me to teach and edify the elders and comfort and encourage them in their preparations for the work which lay before us. I was also much edified and strengthened to attend to this school. I had to travel on foot and sometimes with bare feet at that, about six miles. And this I did once a week, besides visiting and preaching in the five or six branches a week. So this is another example of the good that the saints are doing in Zion. The Lord says that they've got blessings. This seems to be fulfilling multiple passages in the Doctrine and Covenants that talk about the importance of teaching. And again, it commends this idea of teaching as an important function of the church. In fact, in the New Testament, Paul places the role of teachers only behind prophets and apostles, who were also teachers, by the way.

A (14:08)

So a lot of us know about the School of the Prophets in Kirtland. We're familiar with it. Section 88 commanded that. But you're saying that they set up sort of a. A mirror school over in Missouri, and Parley P. Pratt was in charge of that. And that had the same purpose as the one in Kirtland, which was to prepare people to go on missions. Basically kind of a MTC almost styled school to prepare them to go out and preach.

B (14:31)

Yeah. And again, this revelation is like a. You know how you're supposed to do like a compliment critique. Compliment. It's a critique sandwich, I guess you'd say, where it opens up with, I know many of you are faithful. I'm really pleased with what's happening with the school. But then he starts to get into the troubles that are happening in Missouri, and that starts around verse seven. So why don't you pick it up there?

A (14:55)

Yeah, so after compliments, the Lord now turns to the most immediate, ominous part of his message in this section, which is this. Zion is in danger. So verse 7 says this the ax is laid at the root of the trees, and every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire. I the Lord have spoken verily, I say unto you all among them who know their hearts are honest and are broken, and their spirits are contrite, and they're willing to observe their covenants by sacrifice, yea, even every sacrifice which I the Lord shall command, they are accepted of me. For I the Lord will cause them to bring forth as a very fruitful tree which is planted in a goodly land by a pure stream that yieldeth much precious fruit. The wording used in verses 7 through 9 closely parallels some warnings given by John the Baptist in the New Testament, like in Matthew 3:10, Luke 39, and Alma the younger in the Book of Mormon. Alma 5, 52 Alma and John both present their warnings in the shadow of the coming of the true Messiah, and in Alma's case, the great wars with Lamanites contained in the latter part of the Book of Alma. But in this case, the axe laid by the tree had actually already begun to cut into the tree, and the Saints were in the midst of some serious opposition already, right? So the Lord provides this warning with an accompanying chance to repent if the Saints will unite and begin their work on the Temple in Zion. In fact, Parley P. Pratt later noted, with some sorrow, he said, quote this revelation, meaning DNC 97, was not complied with by the leaders and church in Missouri as a whole. Notwithstanding, many were humble and faithful, there's still good people mixed in here. But he says, therefore the threatened judgment was poured out to the uttermost, as the history of the five following years will show. Close Quote so beginning with verse 10, we can see some of the many of the Lord's instructions that Parley B. Pratt is saying that the saints for the most part will fail to comply with. So let's pick it up in verse 10 to kind of see what the Lord wanted them to do versus what they did not do.

B (17:04)

This is where he gets into what the problem is. Verily I say unto you, it is my will that a house should be built unto me in the land of Zion, like unto the pattern which I have given you. Yea, let it be built speedily by the tithing of my people. Behold, this is the tithing and the sacrifice which I the Lord, require at their hands, that there may be a house built unto me for the salvation of Zion, for a place of thanksgiving for all saints, for a place of instruction for all those who are called to the work of the ministry in all their several callings and offices, that they may be perfected in the understanding of their ministry in theory, in principle, and in doctrine, and in all things pertaining to the kingdom of God on the earth. The keys of the kingdom Kingdom have been conferred upon you. And inasmuch as my people build a house unto me in the name of the Lord, and do not suffer any unclean thing to come into it, that it be not defiled. My glory shall rest upon it, and my presence shall be there, for I shall come into it, and all the pure in heart that shall come into it shall see God. But if it be defiled, I will not come into it my glory will not be there, for I will not come into unholy Temples So here's the question. Were the Saints delaying building the temple? Plans for the city had been sent in June, August, and November. These all include a complex of 24 buildings, temples at the heart of the city. However, the Saints were supposed to begin the complex with just one structure, and plans were sent to the Saints in Missouri for this first temple in June and August 1833. We mentioned this in our earlier episode, but the design of the temple largely resembled the Kirtland Temple in a lot of ways. The interior of the temple would have been larger, would have featured congregational meeting space, 12 pulpits representing different offices in the greater and lesser priesthood at the end of each room. These plans were sent to Missouri in early June 1833, but the Saints took no action before the mob attacks began on the Saints the following months. We don't know, and it's impossible to tell. This is all being written in the light of what happened later. But I mean, it's tempting to say if the Saints had complied immediately with the revelations, maybe this wouldn't have happened. Happen however, what we do know is the saints did fail to comply. And the Lord accepting the offering and sacrifice of the saints as sufficient to demonstrate repentance for their failure to build the first temple in Missouri later removes the commandment to build the city. So this is an old debate between you and me if it's not ever or not now, but yeah, that's kind of the sequence as it plays out there.

A (19:41)

Yeah. And it's interesting that in that section 124, the Lord will say, because your enemies, he's stopped you from building it. He really leans into the enemy's piece and he doesn't really talk about their failure to comply quickly or anything like that. There's. By section 124, when all the damage is done, there's no more blame. He just says, your enemies stopped you from building it. And so I require that work no more at your hands. Like, it's pretty cut and dry at that point. Right. But while they still have something to do about it, the Lord is going to give them instruction. So for instance, verse 18, the Lord says, now behold, if Zion do these things, she shall prosper and spread her herself and become very glorious, very great and very terrible. And the nations of the earth shall honor her and shall say, surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place. For God is there and the hand of the Lord is there. And he has sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation in her high tower. Therefore, verily, thus saith the Lord, let Zion rejoice, for this is Zion the pure in heart. Therefore let Zion rejoice while all the wicked shall mourn. There's the promises, if they would comply and they would get into it right away. But we know what happened, right? And even though the land for the city of Zion and its accompanying temples were identified by revelation, the land itself doesn't seem to be the most important component of the city. Right. And you've mentioned this in previous episodes, Casey, like, ultimately, Zion consists of the people. That's what the Lord says here, right? Verse 21 is a huge insight that Zion is the pure in heart. You think of the City of Enoch. The city of Enoch was taken up. I was just having this discussion with my missionary son. He said, do you think like the whole city, like the dirt and the structures were taken up or just the people? And we were talking about that. Probably just the people. I don't know for sure, but who knows? Was there a big hole left in the ground? Is it the Gulf of Mexico? I don't think so. But you also have the record of Melchizedek, who his people, his city of Salem, were also taken up to God. We learned in the Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 14. So it's not so much like the land that the specific location so much as it is we need a place to build a people. And the people, the pure in heart, are going to build the city. So it seems like the people come first, or maybe there's a complex interaction between people who are willing to build the city, and in so doing, that helps purify them and sanctify them. It's like the project itself helps them become Zion people. Both are important. I think in the Joseph Smith movie, the Prophet of the Restoration, there's this line that Joseph Smith didn't say, but he should have, because it's so good. But it has him saying, the Lord's not just building a temple here, the Lord's building us. You know, it's like, yeah, so the project of Zion building helps the people, Zion, to become more pure in heart, for sure. And it seems like that's the primary project, right? Let's get a people ready for dwelling in the presence of God rather than let's get this particular dirt built with cities and, you know, with houses and farms. The most important project is the people, right?

B (22:41)

And you and I go back and forth on, you know, the significance of the land in Missouri. But I think both of us agree that the project here was to create a Zion people. The land is secondary. It can be really important, but it's secondary to the central project, which is building the people. And that statement that Zion is the pure in heart probably resonates more when it comes to us understanding what Zion actually means than any other state statement the Lord makes. So I think he's kind of preparing them here that they might lose the land. They need to understand that the land was never the point to begin with. The point was to create a Zion society.

A (23:19)

And it's interesting that the Lord will. Will later say in section 101, which we'll cover next week, to try to comfort them, he'll say, quote, zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered. Now, that may mean that the saints will yet return to Missouri and build the city of Zion and its ordained place. Right? But that idea is in tension with something you already cited in section 124, verses 49 to 54, where the Lord suggests that the saints have been released from their obligation to Build the city of Zion and the temple there. So section 101 and section 124 kind of in this interesting tension. And we've talked about what we think it means, and we come down on different sides of the question in terms of is it not yet or not after. But this is the heart of the controversy right there.

B (24:04)

Yeah. Well, what is Zion and what does it look like to build it? Like, I don't think they're going to have to build exactly what they were planning on Building in 1833. I just do think that they will go back and rebuild in that particular place. But I'm open to the idea that they could go somewhere else.

A (24:21)

We shall see.

B (24:22)

You're never going to let this go. It just comes up all the time.

A (24:26)

These sections keep provoking the question, right above all the fray of this. This controversy about where is the. Is the what right? The what is the people. It's the. It's their. It's their heart. It's their preparation to come into the presence of God. I think we both agree that's the beating heart of Zion.

B (24:41)

Yeah. And you can kind of see in these last few verses of the section, him just coming back to themes like I'm warning you. Verse 22. Behold, and lo, vengeance cometh speedily upon the ungodly as the whirlwind. And who shall escape it? The Lord's scourge shall pass over by night and by day, and the report thereof shall vex all people. Yea, it shall not be stayed until the Lord come. For the indignation of the Lord is kindled against their abominations and their wicked works. Nevertheless, Zion shall escape if she observe to do all things whatsoever I commanded her. This makes me think that it wasn't too late yet at this point, that if the saints had really turned around and gone with all their heart and mind to build the temple, they could have been okay. But he goes on here and says, but if she observe not to do whatsoever I have commanded her, I will visit her according to all her works, with sore affliction, with pestilence, with plague, with sword, with vengeance, with devouring fire. Nevertheless, let it be read this once to her ears, that I the Lord, have accepted of her offering. And if she sin no more, none of these things shall come upon her. And I will bless her with blessings and a multiplicity of blessings upon her and upon her generations, forever and ever, saith the Lord your God. Amen. So ominous warnings, but kind of a silver lining there at the end. That I mean, we know how it played out, but it's so tempting to do some what ifs here and say, well, what if they had just done things a little bit differently? Could this story have turned out differently? But unfortunately, the story does play out the way that it does. And now today, we're still dealing with the fallout from it. Sitting here debating over what Zion is, where it's supposed to be built and what it means. Exactly.

A (26:23)

So that's the content of the Revelation. Okay, so controversies of Section 97. We've talked about this a little bit in previous episodes, but why did the Lord command the Saints to go to Missouri, to this spot, right to this place where, I mean, he stuck them next to some of the most unprincipled, unrefined, lawless, closed minded people in the whole of the United States of America. I mean, even back in section 52, like when he first started talking about this, he. He called them right away. He called them the enemies of the Saints even before the Saints had met them. Like, it seems deliberate. Seems like the Lord knew what kind of a demographic was out there that the Saints were going to go mix with. And persecution almost seems inevitable when you put that oil and water together. Like, why do you think the Lord did this, Casey?

B (27:14)

I don't know if I have a great answer to that other than to say it is really consistent with what the Lord does. So you and I have been to Missouri a couple times. It's beautiful. Like, it's lush and green and I could see somebody showing up here and saying, what a great place to build the City of God. At the same time too. It's a crossroads at this moment in time, and it's a really difficult place to ask them to build Zion, not because the land isn't fruitful or productive, but because of the people that are there. And in my mind, the Lord is deliberately using Missouri as a crucible to refine the Saints, to burn away their impurities and to help them gain the fortitude to really do what they need to do. Do. The parallel I always think about is another Promised Land, which is Israel. Like, if you go to Israel, my first thoughts when I visited there were like, why did the Lord make this the Promised Land? I mean, first of all, Israel's not the most fruitful place. Like, it's. It's sort of half desert, it's beautiful. But I mean, it's also at the confluence between three continents, between Africa and Asia and Europe. And that means there's always going to be some huge army or empire rumbling through. And it feels like a difficult place for the Israelites to grow and progress. Well, it does a couple things. Them being in Israel means that their ideas spread to all these continents, that they're known among all of them. And it creates a crucible that refines and kind of burns out the impurities in the Israelites. If you look at Jackson County, Missouri, it's the same thing. There's a number of different groups here. There's European settlers, there's Native Americans, there's African Americans. All these groups kind of combining together to create this explosive mix that is probably going to result in trouble, but also gives the saints a real story problem that they're supposed to solve. I mean, they're being confronted with issues about race, about politics, about iniquity, about inequality, and they're supposed to wrestle with this stuff. I'm not saying the Lord's responsible for their persecutions, but I think he sometimes does put us into difficult situations because we tend to grow more when we're facing great difficulty than when things are really, really easy. Easy. And so you have to admit that as a Latter day Saint, persecution is part of our whole deal. Right. I used to teach temple prep, and before we sent a couple to the temple, my wife and I would sit down and say, all right, standard disclaimer. The 24 hours before you go to the temple, all heck is going to break loose. Like everything that can possibly go wrong will go wrong. And we had everything happen from a guy who loves softball break his arm to a couple who, their three year old was like the light of their lives. She had hot oil poured onto her head. They had to take her to the emergency room. Totally fine, by the way. It was a miracle. But we just had to basically say, when you are trying to get to the temple, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. And the same thing happens with the saints here. They're. They're trying to do something really important. The Lord puts them in a place where it's going to be really difficult because that which we achieve too easily, we esteem too lightly.

A (30:25)

Oh, that's good. That's good. Did you just come up with that?

B (30:29)

I wish I did. I. I'm sure I heard it floating around somewhere before for.

A (30:32)

But yeah, that which we achieve too easily, we esteem too lightly. So you think that's what's going on here?

B (30:38)

He puts people in deliberately difficult situations because that pressures us to grow. And he's not doing it to torture us. He's not doing it to be mean. But you have to admit that persecution is still part of being a church member. When a person joins the church, they have to expect persecution. It's not easy. And it's never going to be easy to do the things that we're asked to do because there is a force opposing us. Our mess isn't that it's going to be easy, it's that it's going to be worth it ultimately, that what we have to do is great and will affect others for good in the world.

A (31:13)

While you were talking, I just looked up the full quote because it's so good that you just paraphrased so well. It was by Thomas Paine in something and it was written in 1776 in America. Let's talk about another crucible called the American Crisis. And here's actually the full quote. And I think it fits perfectly this Missouri context. In the point you're making. He said, what we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly. And then he said, it is dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods. And it would be strange indeed if so celestial. An article as freedom should not be highly rated. Close quote. Now just take out freedom and put in temple and Zion building right there. And I think that that quote just fits. Fits perfectly. So, yeah, I've wrestled with this and I think your response is helpful. It also gives a certain view about God that could be troubling to some people, that God deliberately puts you into difficult situations or calls you into hard things that might actually hurt you and do real harm. And so I think we do need to wrestle with that part of this because this is real life, like what happens to the saints. We're going to get into the consequences in just a moment. But what happens, happens in Missouri. Like real people get really harmed using their flawed judgment. They make other decisions and things go haywire. But I don't know. I mean, the American Revolution was messy. Building Zion is messy. I think maybe we. Our assumptions are that if we're working for God, it's going to be clear and clean and it's going to be easy, maybe because God's on our side. But the historical record, the scriptural record, just doesn't seem to bear that out. There always seems to be difficulty in doing great and important things. Thomas Paine recognized that. You're emphasizing that here. No easy answers here.

B (33:05)

I think it's a question everybody has to wrestle with because we've all kind of had a point in our lives when we were trying to do what was right and things just didn't work out. And it's really difficult for us to say, well, you know what? How come? You know what? If I'm doing good, good things are supposed to happen to me. But that's just not how we grow. So that's one answer. But there could be others out there, and I think every one of us needs to sit and wrestle with this.

A (33:30)

Yeah, 100%. Thank you. Good thoughts.

B (33:32)

So much to digest here. And we're going to be dealing with the consequences over the next couple weeks as we lay out the story of what happens to the Saints in Jackson county. But a few consequences. Scott, in your mind, from section 97.

A (33:51)

There'S a letter that Joseph Smith wrote to the Saints in Missouri, actually a few months before the persecutions broke out, where he was desperately seeking for them to repent during that window of opportunity of building up Zion, while that still was there and it hadn't closed yet. In fact, in January, this is back In January of 1833, mob violence starts breaking out, really like in June, July, seven months right before the mob attacks. Joseph wrote this. He said, quote, the Lord will have a place from whence his word will go forth in these last days in purity. For if Zion will not purify herself so as to be approved of in all things in his sight, he will seek another people, for his work will go on until Israel is gathered. And they who will not hear his voice must expect to feel his wrath. Let me say to you, seek to purify yourselves and also the inhabitants of Zion, lest the Lord's anger be kindled to fierceness. Repent, Repent is the voice of God to Zion. Zion. And yet, strange as it may appear, yet it is true mankind will persist in self justification until all their iniquity is exposed and their character past being redeemed, and that which is treasured up in their hearts be exposed to the gaze of mankind. Still quoting from the letter I say to you, Joseph said, and what I say to you, I say to all, hear the warning voice of God, lest Zion fall and the Lord swear in his wrath. And then he says, the brethren in Kirtland pray for you unceasingly, for knowing the terrors of the Lord, they greatly fear for you. All we can say by way of conclusion is, if the fountain of our tears are not dried up, we will still weep for Zion. This from your brother, who trembles greatly for Zion and for the wrath of heaven which awaits her if she repent not. There's so many things going on in that letter. But that is nothing if not prophetic. Casey. Right. We know there's been some bickering and hardness between the Missouri and Kirtland leaders. We've talked about that kind of in the background the last couple sections. This goes beyond that. Right. This is not Joseph saying, like, hey, if you don't be more forgiving of us and Kirtland of our weaknesses, like, you know, this is more ominous. This is bigger. Joseph sensed it in January when he wrote this letter. The revelations we're seeing now, like section 96 is really leaning into it. And then next week as we get into section 98, 101, like, oh, the outcome of section 97, to me, the consequence of section 97, there is hope and there is warning. And we know that they will not, as Parley P. Pratt said, comply with all the things that the Lord had said in this revelation and that he had said in previous revelations. They're going to fear what Joseph called the wrath of, of heaven. Right. His fierceness, which again creates a dilemma of, like, what does fierceness of God mean? Was he inspiring the Missouri people to do all the bad stuff? I don't think so. I think Scripture shows in lots of cases that God's fierceness or God's wrath is when he pulls completely back and does not protect his saints. And the enemies can do whatever they will do. Right. That God's wrath is him pulling back. And that's what we're going to see is a pulling back and the enemies are going to come in and it's not going to be pretty. It's going to be really heart wrenching, actually. This history is so tough. We're going to get into way more detail next week. So if you thought this week was a little trepidatious, wait till next week. It's going to get really, really intense.

B (37:16)

Yeah. It seems like this is their final warning. Like he's pleading with them to try and avoid the course that they're going to go to. But we know the outcome of the story. You know, we know the, that they don't change course sufficiently to avoid the persecutions. And these persecutions are going to be a defining moment for the early saints. That still resonates in the church today. However, warnings are given. If we ignore those warnings, the Lord doesn't give up on us. And this isn't the end of the Zion Project. The Zion Project still continues until today because the Lord still wants this to happen and we're still carrying it out. It's just it was going to happen in a much different and much bigger way than the early Saints probably anticipated.

A (37:59)

Yeah, that's well said. We have not given up on Zion, nor will we ever. But it's taking on a different shape than we ever thought it would just by a plain reading of the Doctrine and Covenants, Revelations. So challenging history that we've started to cover today, we're going to get into way more next week, but a lot of really important lessons I think that we can all learn both about the character of God, our relationship with him and the Zion Project, as you said, with a lot of other nuggets, I'm thinking of section 101. We're going to cover next week. So many nuggets in there that the Lord drops that are so fascinating and insightful even in the midst of the storm. There's going to be some beautiful things that the Lord will reveal and so we look forward to that next week.

B (38:37)

This is a toughie, but it's an essential section in understanding what the Saints went through and what they sacrificed to build Zion. So thanks for being my partner as we go through this.

A (38:47)

It's a pleasure to do this with you, Casey. Thanks so much, man. We'll see you next week.

B (38:50)

Until next week.