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Church History Matters
150 - D&C 98 CFM - Patience and Forgiveness During Hardships - E37 September 8-14
01:06:24
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- [00:00]
A
All is not well in Zion. This is really where the history of the church kicks into high gear.
- [00:05]
B
Even in the midst of their most severe trials, the Lord prescribes gratitude. Focusing on the good in our lives can help us gain the strength to overcome our trials. Things are going to work out. The Lord has heard your prayers.
- [00:18]
A
Just general good counsel when anybody's going through a rough time period in their life is to be grateful for what you have and be patient in your tribulation. Life isn't always supposed to be easy. That the refiner's fire often is utilized by God to make us better. And this is part of the reason why faith in Jesus Christ is the first principle of the gospel. We can't know everything and we can't control everything, so we have to have trust in God.
- [00:45]
B
It's not always easy to tame the natural man, but our theology is to do just that. How you accomplish that without the help of God, I don't know. It's going to work out ultimately in the end.
- [00:56]
A
Hello, Scott.
- [00:57]
B
Hello, Casey. We're back.
- [00:59]
A
We're back. And we are probably tackling what is the biggest block of Scripture this entire year of study of the Doctrine and covenants, sections 98, all the way to section 101, which numerically doesn't sound a lot like a lot. But there are two big, long revelations in here that require a lot of unpacking.
- [01:18]
B
Oh, yeah, we're talking section 98, which is a response to Missouri troubles and Kirtland troubles. Then we get 99, a John Murdoch mission call, and section 100, which is Joseph and Sid Sidney Rigdon being called on a mission to Canada. And then section 101 is the Lord's response to escalating Missouri persecutions, which includes all kinds of cool stuff, bursts of millennial prophecy mixed with insights on the US Constitution, and a ton more coming at us this week. So lots to discuss.
- [01:46]
A
In fact, there is so much material this week, Scott, that we might, for the first time, have to split things into three episodes.
- [01:54]
B
Okay, so episode one, 98, episode two, 99, and 100, and episode three this week, section 101 for our first time ever. Sounds fun.
- [02:03]
A
There's a lot to cover. We don't want to, you know, spend your entire day, but there's so much to talk about here. And this is where the pace of the restoration, it feels like, starts to really pick up. And we start to move quickly from event to event, especially with regards to the Revelations and the Doctrine and Covenants.
- [02:18]
B
At the same time, we don't want to apologize for doing a deep dive into these great sections. I mean, what else are you going to do with your lives? People? Then listen to the Doctrine and Covenants and prepare for your come, follow me experience on Sunday. Right.
- [02:33]
A
Like, you and I might be outside the norm, but I can't think of anything better to do. So let's dive in. Should we go to section 98?
- [02:39]
B
Here we go.
- [02:46]
A
First, we've been hinting at this, but tensions between church members and the locals in Jackson county, where the Saints have been asked to build the city of Zion had been building almost since the Saints first arrived there in the late summer of 1831. In fact, even. Even before their arrival, the Lord told a group of church members in Ohio that the land of Missouri was both the future land of your inheritance and also the current land of your enemies. He says that in section 52 42. So he's preparing them like, this is where we're going to build the city. But it's also not the easiest place to build the city. And public threats and intimidation in Jackson county begin in the spring of 1832. First, less violent means just written handbills that are posted in various places, places warning church members that they need to leave the county. And then verbal warnings and then threats to church leaders. And then finally, actual violence. Things like people throwing stones and bricks at their homes, breaking windows several nights in a row. And then it subsides. So there's a crest and then a trough. Then in the fall of 1832, hostilities and intimidation briefly intensified as gunshots are fired into the homes of some church members. Then it sort of subsides. Then in September, September 1832, when Doctrine and Covenants 84 was given, the Lord told Missouri church members that they needed to repent of some specific things. Otherwise, he warns them, there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of zion. That's section 84. 58. So during the winter and spring of 1833, due to stories that are circulating about the Saints, hatred towards the Saints starts to increase. It intensifies, and the Spirit secretly spreads wider and wider. In fact, By March of 1833, the Lord told Joseph Smith in Section 90 the following. He said, although your brethren in Zion begin to repent, nevertheless I am not well pleased with many things, including the fact that church members like William McClellan and Sidney Gilbert and Edward Partridge and others have many things to repent of, the Lord says, adding, I, the Lord will contend with Zion and plead with her strong ones and chasten until she overcomes and is clean before me. That's section 90, verses 34 through 36. So for quite a while, there's been hints that all is not well in Zion, both on the side of the locals who don't like the Saints, but also problems among the Saints who have had difficulties implementing the law of consecration, getting going on building the temple that's supposed to be the centerpiece of the City of Zion, and just getting along with each other and their fellow church members that are still in Ohio.
- [05:38]
B
And the Lord seems to be foreshadowing here that trouble is brewing if they don't repent, repent of their internal problems for sure. What then unfolds months later that summer is the verbal threats, the house stonings, the window breakings. All that starts to begin again. Then, on July 9, 1833, Oliver Cowdery writes a letter from Missouri to the prophet Joseph Smith in Ohio, explaining the worsening relations between the Saints and their neighbors in Jackson County. Now, although we don't have this letter anymore, it no longer exists. We understand that Oliver likely expressed concerns over the growing violence that was happening in Missouri. In fact, just after Oliver sent that letter, things went from bad to worse. For instance, on July 15, a declaration signed by some 300 of the Jackson county locals was issued and circulated in the county wherein they declared their intentions to rid their society of the Mormons, quote, peaceably if we can, forcibly, if we must. And therein they finally stated precisely why they hated church members so much that they wanted to eject them from their society. They said, in my own words, that the Mormons were poor, lazy, deluded religious fanatics, or knowing deceivers who pretended to Revelation, healing the sick, speaking in tongues and performing miracles such as was done by the apostles in ancient times. All of which was blasphemous and openly derogatory of God and religion. So the first was like a religious reason. Also, they said that the Mormons bombastically claimed that their God hath given them this county of land and that sooner or later they must and will have possession of our lands for an inheritance. And I can understand that one, Casey. Honestly, like the Latter Day Saints talking about how God's going to give them their land. That's bad pr. First of all, the Saints should not have been saying stuff like that. But that stirred their neighbors up. And third, their biggest complaint of all in this written list of grievances centered on their fears of the effect that the Mormons would have on their slaves. Now, keep in mind that Missouri was at this time a slave state. Here's what they said. They accused the Latter Day Saints of, quote, tampering with our slaves to sow dissensions and to raise seditions amongst them. They also accused W.W. phelps of using his newspaper to implicitly invite free Negroes and mulattos from other states to become Mormons and remove and settle among us. This, they feared, would be one of the surest means of driving us from the county since it would corrupt our blacks and instigate them to bloodshed. It would also require them, meaning the white locals, to, quote, receive into the bosom of our families as fit companions for our wives and daughters, the degraded free Negroes and mulattos who are now invited to settle among us. Under such a state of things, they declared, even our beautiful county would cease to be a desirable residence and our situation intolerable. There you go. There's the three initial reasons they gave. There was a big fear in the United States at this time of racial intermarriage, especially obviously in a slave state. But there are laws against this on the books in most of the states of the Union at this time against interracial marriage. And that's the fear mongering that's happening here, is that the Latter Day Saints are going to cause that to happen amongst us.
- [08:55]
A
Not just fears over racial intermarriage, but slave rebellion. It's only about a year or two before this that the Nat Turner Rebellion breaks out in South Carolina that results in a number of white people being killed and black people as well. And there's this insecurity throughout the slave states in the that their slave populations are going to rise up. Now, again, how justified this was is difficult to say. But the mob just openly says, here's the reasons why we want them to go. And there's one more reason that they give in a later resolution. This one's written a couple days later on July 20th, and they mention each of the points that you brought up. And then they add another one, and that is that the Saints pose a political threat as well, saying that they intend to continue to gather to Jackson county and that it would only be matter of time until this is the way the mob phrases it. The civil government of the county will be in their hands when the sheriff, the justices and the county judges will be Mormons in the name of self preservation. It's kind of what the Missourians are claiming here. They conclude that this community of Latter Day Saints, which is really about 1200 people at this time needed to be, in their words, blasted in the germ before it would grow any larger in Jackson County. And then they continue to write. If they refuse to leave us in peace as they found us, we agree to use such means as may be sufficient to remove them. So now we're getting to the crux of the matter. There's more Latter Day Saints gathering to Jackson county every single day. And they are worried that they're going to lose political control of the county. And it's sort of, I don't know, refreshing that they're this open about the reasons why they don't like the Saints. I mean, it definitely makes our job as historians a lot easier. And the church responds to each one of these, it refutes each one of these, but it matter. On July 20, a delegation of 13 local leaders, these are local Missourians, meet with six church leaders and demand that W.W. phelps's printing office and Sidney Gilbert's store and all other shops be closed and for the Saints to leave the county immediately. Now, church leaders in response ask if they can have three months to just consider the demand, which is refused. Then the leaders of the church asked for 10 days, which the mob leaders responded by saying they had to 15 minutes, that that was the most that could be granted. And given such short notice, church leaders responded that they couldn't consent to these demands. So shortly after a mob of several hundred people stormed W.W. phelps Print Shop, which was a two story brick building with the print shop on the second floor and his family homes on the first floor. The mob goes up to the second floor, throws the printing press out the window, destroying it. They scattered all the paper and the type throughout the streets, while W.W. phelps wife and are thrust out of the home on the first floor and their furniture was thrown out and broken in pieces. And then finally they just destroyed the building itself. And this is also we should know, parenthetically, when that famous story happens where members of the church like Mary Elizabeth Rollins and her sister Caroline, run in and grab the printed copies of the Revelations, which is responsible for us having any copies of the Book of Commandments that they were planning to print at that time. Then the mob goes from there to Sidney Gilbert's store and start to do the same, at which point Sidney Gilbert intercedes and agrees to up his goods and close his store. And that stops the mob, at least temporarily. Then the mob goes after people specifically to punish. This is when Edward Partridge, who's the bishop over the Church of Missouri, is dragged from his house, along with church member Charles Allen. They're marched to the public square, and they're publicly tarred and feathered before a taunting crowd. It's a quick step from these demands. You have 15 minutes to meet these demands, too. Open violence, where they destroy the printing press, they try to destroy Sidney Gilbert's store, and they just beat up and tarry and feather Edward Partridge and Charles Allen. Now, three days later, a mob of 500 people waving red flags rode into town, threatening death and destruction to the Mormons. Their words, and seeing the mob's determination, the leaders of the church in Jackson county, to their credit, step forward, and they courageously offer to sacrifice their lives to the mob if it would satisfy them and turn away their wrath from the rest of the Saints to let them stay in the land and live there in peace. But the mob refuses this offer, too, saying that everyone should die for themselves or leave the county. So they're left with almost no choice. Church leaders sign an agreement this day that half of the Saints would leave Jackson county by January 1, 1834, and the other half by April 1, 1834, thus trying to buy themselves enough time to consult with Ohio church leaders and maybe see if they can get the governor of Missouri to intervene. So they're playing for time at this point, but you can see how dire the situation is. Like, there's been violence, and now there's an open threat to more violence. They're really kind of backed into a corner here.
- [14:00]
B
And around this time, Oliver Cowdery, who'd been there in Missouri, he was sent to Ohio to consult with church leaders. And he arrives in Ohio on August 9th. But just three days before he arrived in Ohio on August 6th, Joseph Smith had already written a letter back to Oliver Cowdery responding to his July 9 letter, which, remember, Oliver had sent just before things had reached their fever pitch there in Jackson county. And Joseph had included with this August 6th letter to the Saints in Missouri, the revelations we now know as doctrine and covenants 94 and 97 that we talked about last week and section 98 that we're talking about now. And remember that in Section 97, which Joseph had received only four days earlier, the Lord had warned those in Zion collectively that if she observe not to do whatsoever I have commanded her, I will visit her according to all her works with sore affliction, including, the Lord says, with sword, with vengeance, and with devouring fire. That's DNC 97, verse 26. By that time, of course, that's August 2nd. Some of that had already happened, but things would get worse. What's curious about Section 98, though, Casey, is that although it contains counsel that's intensely relevant to the situation of the Missouri Saints, the Lord actually never directly addresses the Saints in Missouri. And this might be because of its dual equal applicability to the situation of the Saints in Kirtland, who we haven't even talked about yet, who are also beginning to experience some severe persecution as well.
- [15:34]
A
There's evidence that there was opposition increasing against the church in Kirtland during this time as well. And the opposition comes in a slightly different form. For instance, in June 1833, a bishop's court had excommunicated a guy named Dr. Philadelphia Hurlbut. And by the way, he's not a doctor. Doctor is his first name.
- [15:54]
B
His last name is definitely Hurlbut, which is the perfect last name for a bad guy.
- [16:01]
A
Dr. Philastus Hurlbut is like one of the great villains sort of in the history of the church. I remember going to Ohio with Garrett Dirkmod a couple of years ago, and Garrett wanted to find his grave so that he could do something to it. We found it, and in that moment, Garrett was just. Just filled with forgiveness and did nothing except take a picture on his phone and then kind of walk away. But, you know, I don't know what he had in mind, and I won't speak on behalf of Garrett, who is a real gentleman. I will say here too. So Dr. Philastus Hurlbut is briefly reinstated by Joseph Smith, but then a general council excommunicates him again. Joseph Smith's history states that after being cut off from the church the second time, Hurlbut then sought the destruction of the Saints in this place and more particularly myself and family. So Hurlbut is threatening the Saints, but he's also making specific threats against Joseph and his family. And less than two weeks after Doctrine and Covenants 98 was dictated, Joseph Smith wrote to Edward Partridge and other church leaders in Missouri that church members in Kirtland suffered great persecution on account of Hurlbut, who lied Joseph Smith's words in a wonderful manner. And the people are running after him and giving him money to break down Mormonism, which much endangers our lives. So this guy's going around spreading rumors about the church, telling falsehoods. He's kind of like the first professional anti Mormon agitator, though maybe Ezra Booth, who we talked about earlier, gets that. But this raises fears. In Kirtland, Joseph writes and says we're no safer here in Kirtland than you are in Zion. The cloud is gathering around us with great fury, and all Pharaoh's hosts, or in other words, all hell and the combined powers of Earth are marshaling their forces to overthrow us. So Doctrine Covenants 98 is probably speaking to the aggression and escalating tension in both Missouri and Ohio and offering urgently needed counsel as to how church members in both places should respond to violence or the threat of violence that they're now experiencing. So that is a lot to digest, but there's a lot to set up so that these sections make sense. This is really where the history of the church kicks into high gear because of the actions of their adversaries.
- [18:19]
B
So there you go. That's a lot of context. Now let's dive into the content to see what the Lord speaks into this context. Okay, so section 98 opens like this. Verily I say unto you, my friends, fear not. Let your hearts be comforted. Yea, rejoice evermore, and in everything give thanks. Can we just pause right there with that opening? Like the Lord says, in everything give thanks. Like, even in the midst of their most severe trials, the Lord prescribes gratitude to help alleviate some of the challenges they're facing. Gratitude, like when we're confronted with challenges, whether big or small, like the saints are experiencing, or other things in our lives. Like, it's awesome that the Lord says, remember, there's always things that you can be grateful for. Focusing on the good in our lives can help us gain the strength to overcome. Overcome our trials. That's how he opens this section. That's his first shot. Verse one, then verse two. Waiting patiently on the Lord. For your prayers have entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth and are recorded with this seal and testament. The Lord hath sworn and decreed that they shall be granted. Therefore he giveth this promise unto you with an immutable covenant that they shall be fulfilled. And all things wherewith you have been afflicted shall work together for your good. And to my name's glory, saith the Lord. So, first, gratitude. Second, patience. And an assurance that things are going to work out. The Lord has heard your prayers. It's going to work out ultimately in the end. Which reminds me of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. He once offered this counsel. He said, some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don't come until heaven. But for those who embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they come. It will be all right in the end. Elder Holland says, trust God and believe in good things to come. It's a great summary of verses 1 through 3. The way the Lord opens this revelation is with that same kind of call for trust and patience and gratitude, just general good counsel.
- [20:20]
A
When anybody's going through a rough time period in their life is to be grateful for what you have and be patient in your tribulation. Now, the next set of verses introduce a more proactive course of action. He says this verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them. And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind and is justifiable before me. Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you and your brethren of my church in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land. And pertaining to the law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this cometh of evil. I the Lord make you free. Therefore ye are free indeed, and the law also maketh you free. Now, this is sort of a major deal too, and we did a little side video that will accompany our materials for this, where we talked to an actual judge, Judge Thomas Griffith, about what the Doctrine and Covenants has to say about the Constitution of the United States. Because the historical context of the phrase the constitutional law of the land refers to the laws and Constitution of the United States of America at the time this revelation was given. In a larger sense, Latter Day Saints in every country believe in law, to quote article of faith 12. They believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates, in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. But they also, especially the early leaders of the church, talk about the Constitution of the United States in special terms. For instance, Joseph Smith taught, the Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard. It is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner. It is to all those who are privileged with the sweets of its liberty, like the cooling shades and the refreshing waters of a great rock in a thirsty and weary land. It is like a great tree under whose branches men from every clime can be shielded from the burning rays of an inclement sun. So it seems like Joseph Smith felt like, hey, the principles established in the Constitution Constitution aren't just good for Americans. They're good for everybody. They're designed to shield and protect people. But at the same time, too, that doesn't mean that Joseph and the early Latter Day Saints or Latter Day Saints today have to believe the Constitution of the United States or of any other country is perfect or without flaw. For instance, a prominent constitutional scholar. I'm talking. President Dallin H. Oaks, said this in a general conference address. He said, our belief, belief that the United States Constitution was divinely inspired does not mean that divine revelation dictated every word and phrase, such as the provisions allocating the number of representatives from each state or the minimum age of each. The Constitution was not a fully grown document, said President J. Reuben Clark. On the contrary, he explained, we believe it must grow and develop to meet the changing needs of an advancing world. For example, as. And maybe a prominent example of this, the US Constitution allowed for legal slavery at the time doctrine and Covenants 98 was given, but a revelation given only a few months later. This is section 101 says it's not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. The 13th Amendment to the Constitution, which is ratified in 1865, outlaws slavery. This could be an example of how the Constitution of the United States contains divine principles and great ideas, but also is in need of further reform, refinement. So in section 98, the Lord is saying, yes, the constitutional law of land is good and it protects people everywhere. But in section 101, the Lord is saying, but this is wrong. And the Constitution at the time upheld slavery. So we don't believe that the Constitution is perfect, but we do believe that it's a good start when it comes to establishing legal rights and protections for all people everywhere.
- [24:14]
B
And considering what the Saints are going through at this time, both in Missouri and in Ohio State, seems like the Lord is saying when he says, befriend the Constitution, he's saying, lean into those principles that are intended to protect your freedoms, right? Like, reach out to those legal structures, the people that are in them, and appeal for your own rights to be protected. I think that's the immediate context, don't.
- [24:34]
A
You think that is? Step one is see if you can resolve this legally before you enter into any kind of violence first, which is always good counsel, right? Going all the way back to when that guy tried to steal the manuscript of the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith invoked the law, said, there's a law, let's go to court. He didn't fight the guy. He said, let's see if we can resolve this legally. And that's the same thing that they're trying to do here as well.
- [24:58]
B
Also in verse 10, where the Lord urges the Saints to diligently seek for good leaders, that council suggests that staying informed on current issues and candidates and political movements is important for latter Day Saints generally. Right. This stuff will ultimately affect you. Right. I feel like growing up, I didn't really care to think about this stuff much. But as an adult, we can see why this matters. And in Joseph Smith and his people's context here in 1833, boy, they could use some help from government leaders in the midst of this. In the midst of a country that is supposed to guarantee the free exercise of religion. They need it and they need it bad. And maybe it's important to Note that verse 10 says, Seek for good men and wise men to uphold and never endorses a particular party. Right. The church is always party neutral and very pro goodness, goodness and wisdom, whatever that means. Right. Seek for, diligently, seek for good and wise people in government positions because those are the only ones that are going to really be able to help us. The Constitution falls apart if good men and women don't enforce what it says. Was it John Adams who says that the Constitution was only written for a mortal moral people and if the people cease to be moral, then the Constitution will not protect them?
- [26:17]
A
Just another quote from President Oaks here. I loved his address on the Constitution. He said, there are many political issues and no party platform or individual candidate can satisfy all personal preferences. There's going to be compromise. He goes on to say, each citizen must therefore decide which issues are most important to him or her at any particular time. Then members should seek inspiration on how to exercise their influence according to their interest, individual priorities. This process will not be easy. It may require changing party support or candidate choices even from election to election. So he's saying, yeah, it's tough to find a group, a candidate that fits every single need. But be engaged, be involved. Do the same thing that the Lord asked the early saints to do, which is seek out honest people that you believe are people of goodwill that will carry out righteousness and goodness, that will strive to do what's right.
- [27:09]
B
Right. Boy, that's interesting, Casey, that President Oaks said it may require changing party support or candidate choices. Like that's not easy for people to do these days, I've noticed. But notice verse 10 doesn't say find a good political party. Doesn't say that. It says, seek diligently for good men and women, wise men and women. Uphold those people. So interesting comment from President Oaks there about it may require changing party support that asks hard things of people. But of course the little voice inside says, that's, that's right in my soul.
- [27:40]
A
Then in verse 11, it turns inward. He says this, I give unto you a Commandment that you forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God. For he will give unto the faithful, line upon line, precept upon precept. I will try you and prove you herewith. And now he's bringing in another idea that can be really difficult when we're experiencing persecution or trials, which is part of this is designed to try you. Life isn't always supposed to be easy. That the refiner's fire often is utilized by God to make us better. He says, whoso layeth down his life for my cause, for my name's sake, shall find it again, even life eternal.
- [28:22]
B
I think sometimes we mix that up and we say, like, see, God just. He inspired the Missouri mob to do bad things to the saints so that he could refine them. Like, that's not. He says, he's saying, live the principles and commandments I have given you, even when it's really hard to live those. I've given you these commandments to refine you and to prove you herewith. I'm asking you to be grateful. For instance, in the midst of a really difficult thing, that's a commandment that's going to be hard. But as you do it, it will refine you. I'm asking you to be patient. I'm asking you to trust me. I'm asking you to use legal means to respond to your adversaries. These are all commands so far that he's given here. He's going to give some more. They're going to be kind of hard to too, in this section. But the commandments are meant to refine. I will prove you herewith with the commandments. So stay faithful to these precepts I'm giving you precept upon precept of how to respond in difficulty. And these precepts are not going to be easy. I've given them to you to refine you. I think that's important because Casey, I think too often we say God gives us these trials. God's the one that inspired Dr. Philastus Hurlbut to do all this, this junk to Joseph Smith so he could refine Joseph Smith. That's not what the Lord has ever said, right?
- [29:30]
A
Sometimes he intervenes and sometimes he doesn't intervene. And that's what we're going for. But yeah, your job is to live the commandments and to show fidelity the covenants you've made. In fact, he goes on verse 14, I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide my covenant even unto death, that you may be found worthy. For if you will not abide my covenant, you are not worthy of me and man. That is frustrating stuff, right? Right. Where things are going wrong and we can't see all the variables at play. Sometimes we sit there and say, why is this happening? Because God imparts wisdom to us line upon line and precept upon precept. But that's part of the challenge that we face in this life, right? We might not be able to fully discern the motives of the people that are persecuting us, our antagonists, or the cause of our sufferings, or how things are going to work themselves out. But that lack of knowledge compels us to. To act in faith and trust God. This is part of the reason why faith in Jesus Christ is the first principle of the gospel. We can't know everything and we can't control everything. So we have to have trust in God. And he's hinting at an even deeper idea here, which is the great and last unknowable factor in this life is death and what happens after it. But regarding this particular trial, the Savior provides an assurance here that death is not the end. He tells the saints that even if they're asked to lay down their life for his cause, there will be a place prepared for them. That all who die engaged in a noble cause, death is not the end of their existence. It's a gateway into eternal life. Being faithful to the gospel brings you at least the peace of mind to know that you're not going to be free from trials, but it allows you to make choices about what your future state and what your life after this life will be be like. So we can't control everything down here, but we can make choices that at least allow us to know we will go to a better place.
- [31:26]
B
Wow. Verse 13 and 14 are so challenging, right? I'm not saying you're not going to die in any of the conflicts in Missouri or Kirtland. I'm not promising you that. Because sometimes we feel forsaken, right? If. If we get hurt or something bad happens or even death, like to a loved one, we're like, God, where were you? And he says, I'm not saying you're not going to die. I'm saying, keep my commandments. I'm saying, be faithful in my covenant. His words. Verse 14. Even unto death, like that may happen. And we know the future here. You and I know what's going to happen in this story. There's going to be people who die in the Missouri conflict. The Lord is not saying, I'm going to keep everyone that you love alive. He is saying, keep my commandments and stay faithful in the covenant. Covenant that you've made. That's difficult. It reminds me of the story where Elder M. Russell Ballard, he said when he was a young bishop, he had a patriarch who was really old, kind of shaky, stood up in a fast and testimony meeting and bore his testimony. And then kind of emotionally, this patriarch said, I just hope that I can stay faithful to the end, endure to the end, and die faithful. After the meeting, Bishop Ballard said, patriarch, thank you for your testimony, but you don't have anything to worry about, like, you're going to make it. You're fine. And then he said, the patriarch grabbed me by my lapels and pulled me close and said, young man, nobody is safe until they are safely dead. Wow, what a phrase. You could put that right next to verse 14. Abide in my covenant even unto death. That's it. I think. I'm thinking Mosiah 18. Isn't that what the baptismal covenant, Mosaic 18 says, that you'll be faithful even unto death? That's what the Lord's asking for. He's not promising we're not going to die. We're all going to die. He's not even promising that our enemies won't kill us in section 98. Isn't that interesting? He is just asking us to be faithful no matter what happens, until you're safely dead. Then you can relax a little bit at that point. Holy cow.
- [33:22]
A
It gets even harder as the verses go on. Like this is advanced discipleship. Look at verse 16. Renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers and the hearts of their fathers to the children. The saints are victims of unjust persecution. I feel like they would have been morally justified in fighting back. But the Lord is telling them, don't. Many among the saints probably felt like they would have been justified in answering violence with violence. But the Lord asked the saints to take a higher road, leaving violent measures behind and settling their country conflicts peacefully. And then it's weird that in these verses he makes an allusion to Malachi, the whole mysterious end of the Old Testament, where Elijah is going to come and turn the hearts of the children of the fathers and the fathers to the children. Let's try and put this in context. So this is 1833, and the saints have no understanding of the nature or importance of temple work as we do today. They don't even have their first temple built yet during this time. So what the Lord is asking them to do here is really opaque. It feels like it's coming out of nowhere. We're not supposed to engage in violence so that we can turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the fathers to the children. Then he says, and the hearts of the Jews to the prophets, and the prophets unto the Jews. Lest I come and smite the earth with a curse, and all flesh be consumed before me. This feels like he's going off in a completely different direction. But he might be asking them to heal family gaps and breaches between older and younger generations. He might be asking them to have an increase and family solidarity during trying times. And as returning the Jews to the prophets. He might be alluding to the work of bringing the writings of the Book of Mormon to the descendants of Lehi, who are sometimes referred to in the Doctrine and Covenants as Jews. So in the immediate Context of Section 98, Finding Peaceful Solutions to challenges rather than incurring violence is what the Lord's asking the saints to do. And he's hinting that the work that they're trying to lay the foundation of, because remember, the first temple is supposed to be built in Jackson county in Missouri. Missouri will allow the entire human family, which has been just mired in violence throughout its entire history, to at last be peacefully connected through the sacred covenants of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Because I can't think of a less violent place than the temple, honestly. But he's just providing a glimpse here that these temples of the latter days can't be built on a foundation of blood. They have to be built on covenants that produce inner and outer peace.
- [35:51]
B
I kind of hear him saying, don't get distracted by this violence. Like, stay focused on the mission. Keep your eye on the prize. I've called you to do the work of healing of the generations. They don't know fully about temple work yet, but heal the generations. Take the gospel to everybody. In this case, he's referencing taking the gospel to the descendants of Lehi, most likely. Don't let this stuff get you distracted from that. Like, stay. Stay focused on the work. It's really important and ultimately, ultimately will lead to the healing of all this kind of stuff. Like, if you focus just on the violence and you respond to the violence with violence, that's only going to perpetuate things. Stay focused on the healing that I've called you to do. Now he transitions A little bit in verse 19 to the saints in Kirtland, talks to them directly. He says, behold, I the Lord am not well pleased with many who are in the church at Kirtland, for they do not forsake their sins and their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts hearts and their covetousness and all their detestable things. He calls them and observe the words of wisdom and eternal life which I have given unto them. They're just taking it too lightly. They're not taking it seriously. Verse 21. Verily I say unto you that I the Lord will chasten them and will do whatsoever I list if they do not repent and observe all things whatsoever I have said unto them. And maybe it's important to remember that chasten means to make somebody pure. He's going to allow events to transpire in such a way way that it will help bring them back to their covenant core, right, to help purify them. This is the idea. He's not punishing them, he's trying to purify them. Verse 22. And again I say unto you, if you observe to do whatsoever I command you, I the Lord will turn away all wrath and indignation from you, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. So Casey, looks like the saints in Kirtland have some repeated repenting to do in order to fully merit the Lord's protection here. Remember, there's only about 150 saints in Kirtland at this time compared to about 1200 in Missouri, so the proportions are quite different. But the Lord wants to bless and protect all the saints, but if they don't repent, it seems like he's saying to both groups, I will withdraw my protection and let chastening happen to you. But if you will do whatever I command you, then I will. I'll be able to intercede more on your behalf. I don't understand all the reasoning behind that, Casey, Honestly, but it seems like that's how the Lord has responded consistently throughout scriptural history with his covenant people, consistently faithful. He is able to intervene a lot more powerfully on their behalf. But as they become loosey goosey about their covenants, it seems like he withdraws and lets kind of natural consequences happen to them until they repent. It's an interesting pattern. It seems almost to be like a law in scripture.
- [38:28]
A
And the next section is going to bring up another law which we'll kind of loosely title the Law of Retribution where he's speaking. Okay, now somebody comes against you and Commits violence. And he says, I spake unto you concerning your family. So not just violence against you personally, but against your loved ones. He says this verse 23. If men will smite you or your families once, and ye bear patiently and revile not against them, neither seek revenge, ye shall be rewarded. But if ye bear it not patiently, it shall be accounted unto you as being meted out as a just measure against you. For so don't do anything, you'll be rewarded. If you fight back, it's going to be seen as well, you had it coming. And then he ups the ante continually here. If the enemy smites you a second time, this is verse 25. And you revile not against your enemy, but patiently, your word shall be a hundredfold. And then verse 26, if he smites you the third time, and you bear patiently, your word will be doubled unto you fourfold. And these three testimonies shall stand against shrimp enemy. If he repent not and shall be.
- [39:29]
B
Blotted out, your reward shall be doubled unto you fourfold. Does that mean 1600fold? This doesn't matter. But I have to crunch the numbers one hundredfold. Double it once, two hundredfold. Double it again, four hundredfold. Double it again eight hundredfold. Double it the fourth time, sixteen hundred. Is that what he's saying?
- [39:46]
A
That's good. I don't know if there's a way to quantify blessings from the Lord. I've always thought of this as kind of the you have to forgive give 70 times 7, which technically is 490. But I've never seen a place where, you know, any leader of the church has said, and at the 490th time, then you go crazy. Guys seek revenge. It seems like the Savior's just going for such absurdly big numbers. He's trying to say, I'll just give you a lot of blessings. If you don't respond with violence. Then verse 28. If that enemy shall escape my vengeance, and he be not brought into judgment, judgment before me, then shall ye see to it that ye warn him in my name. Let it come no more upon you, neither upon your family or your children's children. Unto the third and fourth generation. He is describing sort of literally what happens in Missouri here. I don't know if there is any retribution that's ever meted out on the inhabitants of Jackson county that do all these violent things to the saints. But the Lord's saying, I'm keeping track of this and I'm paying attention to it. And then he says, if he will come. This is verse 29 upon you or your children or your children's children under the third or fourth generation. I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands. And then if thou wilt, spare him. So he's even saying, if this turns into a generational feud, I still want you to forgive him. Thou shalt be rewarded for thy righteousness and thy children and thy children's children unto the third and fourth generation. Nevertheless, thine enemy is in thine hands. And if thou rewardest him according to his word works, thou art justified. If he has sought thy life and thy life is endangered by him, Thine enemy is in thy hands and thou art justified. But boy, the point to where you have to get to where he says you're justified in using violence, he is saying stretches out over multiple generations. And he always adds in this provision, but if you don't do anything violent, I'll bless you. Further, I wish anybody that ever claimed that Latter Day Saints are violent could read these verses and realize that there is violence. In our past, there's ugly episodes. We did a whole series on peace and violence among Latter Day Saints. But verses like this kind of reinforce that. When Latter Day Saints engage in violence, it's not part of our theology. It's an aberration. It's a bug in the system. It's when somebody departs from our teachings that they engage in violence. Our teachings are inherently non violent. And ask the saints again and again to forgive and spare and receive blessings if they can choose the higher path.
- [42:14]
B
Yeah, that's well said. Our history has violence in it because our history has humans in it who happen to be members of our church. And it's not always easy to tame the natural man. But our theology is to do just that. And I don't know how you could apply these verses that you just read without taming the natural man. To yield to the enticings of the Spirit, to become as a child, submissive and meek and humble, patient. Patient with your enemies, right? Full of love, just not reactive, right? To wait until the second or the third or the fourth time that they've come against you or your family, or even to wait generations before you mete out just retribution for what they've done like that would take incredible patience. The Lord. Lord's not, not saying here you can never react in violence, right? He says your enemies in your hands, if they continue to come against you over and over again, and if you reward your enemy according to his works, you're justified, especially if he sought your life, and your life is endangered by him, then your enemy's in your hands and you're justified. He's like. He's really clear in verse 31. Like, we're not 100% pacifist. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that. But our theology is not violent. It is not reactive, it is submissive, it is patient. And I think the Lord is illustrating that in these verses.
- [43:31]
A
That impulse to self defense is reactionary. It's in the moment, when we have time, like the saints in Kirtland and Missouri do, to choose. He says, you take the nonviolent path. In fact, let me give you an example of this. We talked earlier about the violence that happened at Jackson county and that two church leaders, Edward Partridge and Charles Allen, were specifically taken to the city square of Independence and tarred and feathered. And Bishop Partridge later gave this account of what occurred. So this is the way he describes the violence against him personally. And I think this is a great illustration of the principles in section 98, which Edward Partridge wasn't aware of, but he just knew the gospel well enough to do this. He wrote, I was stripped of my hat, coat and vest and daubed with tar from head to foot. And then had a quantity of feathers put upon me. And all this because I would not agree to leave the county and my home where I had lived for two years before tarring and feathering me. I was permitted to speak. I told them that the saints had had to suffer persecution in all ages of the world, that I had done nothing which ought to offend anyone, that if they abused me, they would abuse an innocent person. That I was willing to suffer for the sake of Christ. But to leave the country. I was not then willing to consent to it. By this time the multitude made so much noise that I could not be heard. Some were cursing and swearing, saying, call upon your Jesus, etc. Etc. Others were equally noisy and trying to still the rest, that they might be unable to hear what I was saying until after I had spoken. I knew not what they had intended to do with me. Whether to kill me, to whip me, or what else. I knew not. But I bore my abuse with so much resignation and meekness that it appeared to astound the multitude who permitted me to retire in silence. Silence. Many looking very solemn, their sympathies having been touched, as I thought, and as to myself. I was so filled with the spirit of the love of God that I had no hatred towards my persecutors or anyone else.
- [45:28]
B
I was filled with the spirit and love of God. How do you do that, Edward, when people are daubing you with tar and feathers and mocking you and swearing at you? Wow, there's a saint right there. He has become a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord.
- [45:45]
A
Edward Partridge doesn't end the violence permanently, but he does cause a cessation of the violence, at least temporarily, that gives the saints a little breathing room. And he does it by not responding with violence. Like again and again, violence is a recipe for more violence. And the Lord here is even aware of the idea of generational violence that continues to perpetuate itself. You and I have been to Missouri several times together, right? And we've seen that there is still sometimes this lingering generational resentment that exists in places like Jackson County. But the way we've been able to overcome it and prosper, and I would say the church is prosperous in Jackson county today, is not by responding with any kind of sense of revenge or sense of retribution. It's by being good neighbors and good friends and coming back and offering a Christ like example to people. The same way that Bishop Partridge did here, by not answering violence with more violence.
- [46:44]
B
I'm just struck by his very last line, too, where he says, I had no hatred toward my persecutors or anyone else. That's got to be a really big piece to this puzzle. Like, how could you respond in a Christlike way? Well, he says, I have filled with the Spirit. I had a love of God, and I didn't have hatred towards my persecutors. How you accomplish that without the help of God, I don't know, Casey. But it is clear that he had the help of God. Here's a man who had been consistent in his discipleship. He'd been rebuked a couple times in some of these previous revelations, being called to repent. And we see that he was doing it. He was doing it. He was refined. He was becoming a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord. And when push came to shove, when you really squeezed him publicly right here in front of everybody and abused him, you saw what was really on the inside of Edward Partridge. And there it was in this. This beautiful, shining exhibition example of those very principles that Section 98 is referring to, which, like you said, he hadn't even read yet because it hadn't been sent to Missouri yet. But he. There he was exemplifying the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the refinement that comes to those who are serious about their discipleship. It's beautiful. Okay, so now let's move to the final verses here. Verse 32, the Lord says, Behold, this is the law, this law of non violence and non retribution. This is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi. I'm going to pause right there. That's not where the sentence ends. But that made me think, Casey, the Lord used the phrase, I have delivered Laban into your hands. He uses the exact same phrase from section 98 here, that your enemy will be delivered into your hands only after Laban had come against Nephi and his brothers multiple times and even threatened Nephi's life. Right. I've never viewed First Nephi 3 in light of DNC 98, but that's an interesting connection to make and to think about here because the Lord is making it. Verse 20:32. This is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi and thy fathers Joseph and Jacob and Isaac and Abraham and all my ancient prophets and apostles. You'll see this same law throughout scripture. Verse 33. And again, this is the law that I gave unto my ancients, that they should not go out unto battle against any nation, kindred, tongue or people. Save I, the Lord commanded them. And if any nation, tongue or people should proclaim war against them, they should first lift a standard of peace unto that people, people, that nation or tongue. And if that people did not accept the offering of peace, neither the second nor the third time they should bring these testimonies before the Lord, Then I, the Lord, would give unto them a commandment and justify them in going out to battle against that nation, tongue or people. He's being quite extensive here about how he works in terms of war. But then he says verse 37, and I the Lord at that point would fight their battles and their children's battles and their children's children, children's until they had avenged themselves on all their enemies to the third and fourth generation. Behold, this is an example unto all people, saith the Lord your God, for justification before me. So there you go. These verses are, I think, the best verses in all of Scripture explaining the Lord's heart and his view on war. Right. War can be justified, yes, Given the conditions provided here in verses 32 to 38. I'm thinking of a time when, during a period of global war, the First Presidency, which at that time consisted of Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark Jr. And David O. McKay, they actually issued a statement on war that I think is valuable to put side by side with these verses. So this is what they said amidst World War II. Quote the church is and must be against war. We're against it. Okay, Continuing. The Church itself cannot wage war unless and until the Lord shall issue new commandments, commands, it cannot regard war as a righteous means of settling international disputes. These should and could be settled, the nations agreeing by peaceful negotiation and adjustment. Close quote. So that's interesting, right? We've got a lot of scripture to think about. And the Book of Mormon itself provides interesting examples. In the Bible, we've got people like Gideon, we've got Moses, Joshua, who engage in warfare, righteous warfare, if we can call it that, or divinely justified warfare. In the Book of Mormon, we got Captain Moroni, we got Mormon skillful commanders, generals, righteous men, men of peace who also engaged in war for the right reasons. Right? We have some interesting examples in Scripture of this. Speaking of the righteous Nephites, the Book of Mormon declares this. It says, quote, they were sorry to take up arms against the Lamanites because they did not delight in the shedding of blood. Blood. Yay. And this was not all. They were sorry to be the means of sending so many of their brethren out of this world into an eternal world, unprepared to meet their God. Close quote. That's in Alma 4823. That's the right attitude, right? If you ever had to engage in war. And we're grateful for all of our brothers and sisters out there in the armed forces that are protecting our nation and those who have to engage in stuff like this. I just think the Book of Mormon and here in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 98, is giving the right posture to have as a disciple of Christ. It's just good. It's just beautiful. If it does come to that, this is the right posture to have.
- [51:43]
A
Well said. And again, in the last closing verses of this, the Lord's going to repeat this idea again. That then he comes against thee the first time he repent and come against thee, praying for forgiveness, forgive him, and thou shalt hold it no more as a testimony against the enemy than he mentions the second time, time, the third time. And verse 40, as oft as thine enemy repenteth of the trespass, where he has trespassed against thee, thou shalt forgive him until 70 times 7. Part of this idea here too is, do you respond with violence? And then the second part is, what if your enemy changes? Do you forgive them? Again, dealing with this generational hatred that sometimes comes from conflicts that come up, that part of the damage is physical from the actual violence. Part of the damage is emotional and psychological that comes from us not being able to forgive people for the things that they've done to us.
- [52:35]
B
And what's interesting is verses 41 through 44, the Lord says, even if he doesn't repent, still forgive him if he trespass against thee, and repent not the first time, forgive him. Second time he repents not, forgive him. Third time repents not forgive him. Verse 43, verse 44, if he trespasses against the four fourth time. Okay, thou shalt not forgive him. But bring these testimonies before the Lord and they shall be blotted out until he repent. That's interesting. Even if he's not asking for forgiveness. Strike one, strike two, strike three, keep forgiving. Fourth time is when the Lord shifts. Maybe at that point there's a reason to bring these things before the Lord. He says, and they shall not be blotted out until he repent. Meaning they won't be blotted out as trespasses against you until he replaced repent and reward thee fourfold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee. And then if he does this, verse 45, Thou shalt forgive him with all your heart even after the fourth time. And if you do not this, then he's in my hands. I, the Lord will avenge thee of thine enemy and hundredfold. He goes on to the multi generational problems that you, you spoke about earlier.
- [53:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Verse 47. If their children repent, or their children's re children and turn to the Lord their God with all their hearts and with all their might mind to serve strength and restore fourfold for all their trespasses wherein they have trespassed, or wherewith their fathers have trespassed, or their fathers fathers, then thine indignation shall be turned away, and vengeance shall no more come upon them, saith the Lord thy God. And their trespasses shall never be brought anymore as a testimony before the Lord against them. So he addresses this idea of direct forgiveness. But also the problem with violence is that sometimes it becomes generational. Man, do we see a lot of examples of this around the world. It's turned into a thing where I'm mad at you because of something that happened in my grandfather's time or my great grandfather's time, or even two or three thousand years ago kind of thing. This is the Lord trying to heal those breaches that continually perpetuate the cycle of violence and trying to end it once and for all. And that is that we have to forgive. And after we've forgiven. Seek, not revenge, retaliation or anything like that. So this is, again, tough stuff. This is advanced discipleship. Because it's one thing to say love your neighbor, but Jesus really upped the ante when he said, you love your enemy, which I don't know of any religion on earth that goes that far as to say, you actually have to love people that hate you. But that's Christian. That's at the heart of what makes Christianity different and special from other religious traditions.
- [55:11]
B
And I'm sure there are people that are listening to this who have experienced multi generational problems, Right, that we didn't start, we didn't do it. We weren't there when the thing happened that caused the rift. But I think the Lord is saying here, if the children repent, or the children's children and turn to their God with all their hearts, then that can go well as well. We might not have been there at the cause, but we can be there as part of the solution. We may not have started the cycle, but we can end it. And I think that's a pretty powerful message, the Lord's saying here, too.
- [55:46]
A
And it's something we still grapple with. Right. Like, Scott, I remember when you and I went to Warsaw, Illinois. We were filming a video on the martyrdom of Joseph Smith. And I never, never been to Warsaw. Warsaw is where the militia came from that killed Joseph Smith. And when we got there, downtown Warsaw sort of looked like a war zone, to be honest with you. Like, I wouldn't have been surprised if zombies came out of the buildings because everything looked like broken down and burned out. And I have to admit that there.
- [56:13]
B
Was a little satisfaction, carnal satisfaction.
- [56:17]
A
Yeah. This place has fallen into ruin and repair because of the sins of their ancestors. And, you know, as you were talking just now, I realized we got to get past that. It's ridiculous to show up in a town almost 200 years after something has happened and rejoice in their suffering or say, this is why this town's never prospered or anything like that. We should be seeking goodwill for all men and try to help everyone progress and get better. It sounds really simple, but it is so tough. You and I lead church history tours, and it's so easy to go to a place like Missouri and say, look what happened to them. They had it coming. And that's not what the Lord's asking us to do. He's asking us to be better.
- [56:58]
B
Yeah. Forgive. Forgive. Forgive. Healing, turning the hearts of the children to the fathers and the fathers to the children in the context of this revelation, I really think that's what he's saying when he quoted that verse is let's try to heal those generational pain points that maybe you didn't start, but I'm asking you to help heal them.
- [57:16]
A
Alongside this revelation, let me read some something that Joseph Smith wrote to counsel the church leaders in Missouri. This is from a letter he wrote. He said, we're sorry that this disturbance has broken out. We do not consider it our fault. You are better acquainted with circumstances than we are and of course, have been directed in wisdom. We advise that you be not the first aggressors. Give no occasion. And if the people will let you dispose of your property, settle your affairs and go in peace. Go. You know our feelings relative to not giving the first offense and also of protecting your wives and little ones in case of mine mob should seek their lives. Be wise. Let prudence dictate all your counsels. Preserve peace with all men. If possible, stand by the constitution of your country, observe its principles, and above all, show yourselves men of God, worthy citizens. And we doubt not community ere long will do justice and rise in indignation against those who are the instigators of your suffering and affliction. Now, with historical hindsight, it seems like Joseph Smith was being a little naive that they would actually do what was right. That doesn't happen. But he's hitting at a deeper principle, which is forgiveness, even against the people that hurt us most deeply is always a better course than retribution. And we should note that the Lord's promise to avenge wrongs to the third and fourth generations of those who are wicked is still conditional as well, that if they repent, he's not going to avenge to the third and fourth generations. We believe that everybody's punished for their own sins and not for what their fathers do. And while it's true that grudges and sins are often passed on from one generation to another, we have an obligation to heal the wounds and not perpetuate them. Justice sometimes just has to be left in the hands of God.
- [59:00]
B
Yeah, and I'm struck that in Joseph Smith's letter, which he wrote a couple years later after this revelation to the saints who are in Clay County, Missouri, I'm struck by how well he's mirroring the the Principles of Section 98. It's almost like this is where he learned them and he's internalized them deeply. And I think that's pretty pleasing to the Lord. The hope is that we could internalize these principles as well.
- [59:21]
A
Yeah, he practices what he preaches.
- [59:29]
B
All right, Casey. Controversies of Section 98. I think the one big question that we've been hitting on, let's just state it outright, is, is a violent response to violence against you and your family ever divinely justified?
- [59:43]
A
That's a tough question. It sure sounds like no. Is the answer based on the principles in section 98? Because the conditions where he says it is justified are so extreme. It's like after you've forgiven them four times and you've raised an inside of peace and you've done all this stuff, then you're justified. And it's hard to imagine it ever getting that far. Now, immediate danger, danger, you know, fighting to defend your wives and children when they're under threat. I think we have to take section 98 and put it alongside other works of scripture, especially the Book of Mormon, which does focus a lot on conflict and war especially, but gives circumstances where it's justified and also underlines the principles that we never glory in this kind of thing. Like, this is a radical difference between the culture that produces the Bible and the of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and say, like the Greeks, right? Have you ever read like the Iliad or the Odyssey or anything like that? Like, violence is awesome and an awesome guy is the guy who kills the most people and like, revels in the blood of his fallen enemies. That is not the deal in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. There's never a place where it's justified or honored or held up as being, like, amazing or awesome.
- [60:58]
B
But the question is, is it ever divinely justified? And don't you think the Lord is saying, like, in verse 31, I'm thinking, nevertheless, thine enemy is in thine hands, and if thou rewardest him according to his works, thou art justified. If he has sought thy life and thy life is endangered by him. Thine enemy is in thy hands and thou art justified. You're saying that's not divine justification for violence?
- [61:23]
A
Yeah, but it seems like the circumstances that that comes into play are so extreme that on a practical level, I don't know if we ever quite get there.
- [61:30]
B
You've never experienced something to this extent? I haven't either. But isn't the Lord saying that there would be circumstances? But yeah, like, wait, wait, don't be the instigator, don't be the aggressor. Wait, wait. Forgive, forgive, forgive. But there can come a time when, if it's a life for a life.
- [61:49]
A
I honor those people that I know. In my life. Life who have had to. I've had students go away to fight in wars. Now I've been an educator for 20 years and I've seen the effect that it has on them. And it's hard. It's hard. It really causes a lot of damage on every level to a person that has to engage in violence. So I would say it should be avoided at all costs. But yeah, there might be times when it's justified. Divine justification for violence, more often than not, is not something that comes from a divine being. It's really a slippery slope where you start to think that any kind of behavior is justified because God sanctioned it, or you think God sanctioned it. I would just say the conditions he says for divine justification for violence are so far out of the norm that if everybody followed the principles in section 98, would there still be some violence? Yeah, probably, probably. But there'd be a lot less violence because we tend to go to the violent response really quickly in our dealings. Interpersonal, on national, on every scale. Human beings are too quick to invoke violence to try and solve problems. It just seems like it always creates more problems and perpetuates the cycle.
- [63:07]
B
That's a really healthy place that if we all followed the principles of Section 98, there would be be way less violence in this world. 100% agree with you on that. I am not a fan of violence on any level. I'm just trying to read this carefully. And I'm reading Joseph Smith, that letter that you wrote where he says don't be the first aggressors. You know our feelings relative to not giving the first offense, but also protecting your wives and little ones in case a mob should seek their lives. Like, got to keep these in balance. Be wise, let prudence dictate your counsel. Preserve peace if possible, stand by the Constitution. So there's these kind of little caveats. There's this posture of the saint that needs to be in place of forgiveness, of kindness, of non aggression. I'm thinking of the Book of Mormon. Is it Alma 43 that says that it's a divine command to defend your wives and children even unto bloodshed. But like you're saying, that's a rare occasion and we are too quick to anger as human humans. It's something the gospel of Jesus Christ is helping to tame. And we're too quick to think that we're justified in our angry or violent reactions to people. And so if you think you're justified, be careful and go back and read section 98 first before you react, he.
- [64:22]
A
Definitely sets up any kind of violent response as the absolute last resort that a person should go to. And again, I'm just saying, if more people follow this, would we eliminate all violence? No, but we could eliminate a lot of violence and a lot of hurt and a lot of trauma that just perpetuates itself and causes misery throughout the world.
- [64:40]
B
Amen to that.
- [64:41]
A
Let's talk consequences then. We're setting the scene here. This revelation is sent to Missouri only three days before Oliver Cowdery makes it to Kirtland. Remember Oliver? Oliver's traveling from Missouri to Kirtland to inform Joseph Smith of the violence that's been inflicted upon the Saints. Once Oliver explained what had happened the last few weeks, it brought to light the full extent of what was going on in Missouri. After hearing Oliver's report, Joseph Smith immediately dispatched Elder Orson Hyde and Elder John Gould to provide assistance and support to the Saints in Missouri. Now we're going to continue this thread and see how the difficulty surrounding the Saints Missouri set off a chain of events that would really just kind of overtake the Prophet over the next year as he tries to figure out how to help the Saints in Missouri gain redress for the things that they've lost and also just get back to their homes in Jackson County. So this is an inciting incident that's really going to carry us through the next couple sections of the Doctrine Covenants as Joseph Smith and his associates deal with the fallout from what happens happens in Jackson County.
- [65:54]
B
Yeah, well said. So let's go ahead and pause here with episode one. Meet us over on episode two where we dive into section 99 and 100. We'll see you there. Sam.