Church History Matters – Episode 153

D&C 102–103 CFM: God’s Stance on Violence & Organizing Councils

Podcast Date: September 9, 2025
Hosts: Scott and Casey
Main Theme:
In this episode, Scott and Casey deeply explore Doctrine & Covenants Sections 102 and 103, discussing the historical context and ongoing impact of church governance through councils (with a special focus on membership councils/courts), God’s prescribed approach to violence, and the organization and objectives of Zion’s Camp in the early Latter-day Saint movement.

Overview of the Episode's Main Theme

Scott and Casey center their discussion on how the early Latter-day Saint church organized itself administratively (especially via councils), how God counsels the church to respond to violence and persecution, and what happens when hard choices—such as church membership removal—must be made. The episode is split between an in-depth look at D&C 102 (procedures and principles of church councils) and D&C 103 (response to the crisis in Missouri and the organizing of Zion’s Camp), weaving in insights, practical applications, historical details, and comedic anecdotes.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Pattern and Power of Councils (Sections 102)

• [00:42–03:37] The Origin of Church Councils:

  • Section 102 consists of meeting minutes—not direct revelation, but minutes documenting procedures Joseph Smith based on revelation about ancient councils.
  • As the church grew, organizational structures were required beyond a presidency—leading to the establishment of high councils.
  • Casey: “One of the reasons why our church endured, was there were these councils set up. So when Joseph Smith was killed, a council, the quorum of the 12, step forward and there’s councils going all the way down…” [08:40]

• [04:36–07:38] Ancient Patterns and Modern Application:

  • Joseph Smith attempted to model church governance on ancient councils, emphasizing presence, focus, propriety, and the record-keeping of actions for future accountability.
  • Everyone in the church participates in councils—formal (high/ward councils) or informal (families), reflecting longstanding scriptural precedent (e.g., Acts 15).

• [11:19–18:36] Terminology – Standing vs. Traveling Councils; General vs. Local Authorities:

  • The first high council was the “standing council” (governing a set area), with the Apostles as “traveling high council” (serving where no stakes were organized).
  • The system bred cross-training and organizational continuity.
  • Scott: “The genius of our church government is government through councils… by counseling together, they can arrive at an accord. It is amazing. It is powerful.” [18:36] (Quoting Stephen L. Richards)

• [20:43–30:27] Membership Councils: Rationale and Process

  • Councils address transgression too serious to be handled by a bishop alone.
  • Three main purposes of membership councils (per the Handbook; [22:31]):
    1. Protect others (from physical/spiritual threat)
    2. Help an individual access repentance and healing
    3. Protect church integrity by addressing actions that damage trust
  • Casey: “I was genuinely blown away at how much love was shown in these councils for the individual, that it was not the Spanish Inquisition. It was very… carefully acted out, so that we could help somebody… work through those issues…” [23:58]
  • Rich procedural details: drawing lots for impartiality, a focus on equity, and the guarantee of the accused’s right to speak and appeal.
  • Scott: “It’s not 12 against one… six max can speak against the accused… the other six are there to make sure no insult or injustice is done...” [27:56]
  • Joseph Smith: “It was not the order of heaven in ancient councils to plead for and against the guilty, as in our judicial courts…” [29:02]

• [31:52–35:24] Outcomes of Membership Councils

  • Three broad possible results: remain in good standing, formal membership restrictions (used to be called disfellowshipment), or withdrawal of membership (formerly “excommunication”).
  • None are intended as punishment; rather, they're measures to protect the vulnerable, church integrity, and support repentance and return.

• [36:24–46:06] Real-World Example and Controversy

  • First disciplinary case: Brother Curtis Hodges on trial for “preaching too loudly”—council listens, rebukes, he repents, case closes tenderly.
  • Scott: “He sums all the evidence up… Joseph Smith... gave his decision, which was that the charges had been fairly sustained by good witnesses… Brother Hodges then rose and said… he had learned more during this trial than he had since he came into the church. He confessed freely his error and said he would attend to overcoming that evil, the Lord being his helper.” [44:58]
  • Casey: “Every time I participated in one [a council] I have just come away with such amazing, immense respect for the local leaders… and for how kind and caring and Christlike they were.” [44:58]
  • Membership councils may cause pain, but, as Casey observes, church officers are held to a higher standard, and trust requires rigorous accountability.
  • Casey: “Membership in the church has to mean something, or it doesn’t really have a point.” [41:45, 46:06]

The Crisis in Missouri and Zion’s Camp (Section 103)

• [46:07–50:04] Historical Context:

  • In late 1833, Saints are violently expelled from Jackson County, Missouri—Parley P. Pratt and Lyman Wight relay the horrifying aftermath to Joseph Smith in Kirtland.
  • Governor Dunklin offers state military escort for a return but not for continued protection.

• [51:17–56:18] The Lord’s Perspective on Suffering and Chastening

  • Section 103 gives context: the Saints’ suffering is allowed both so that the “wicked” can fill the measure of their iniquity, and so the Saints are chastened for past disobedience.
  • Scott: “The Lord says… they did not hearken altogether… and so they need to be chastened… The Lord is merciful and he has more for them to do.” [54:15]
  • The narrative aligns the Missouri Saints with ancient Israel—paralleling their plight and eventual redemption.

• [56:18–62:37] Instructions for Redeeming Zion

  • Redemption is conditional: “If they pollute their inheritances, they shall be thrown down…” (v. 14)
  • The Lord affirms Joseph Smith’s leadership and commands gathering, continued land purchases, and peaceful legal means for reclaiming land, while only fighting in self-defense if necessary—“power” does not necessarily mean violence.
  • Casey: “A quick review of the Revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants shows that the Saints were continually instructed to purchase the lands at Zion and obtain the land through peaceful and legal means…” [61:25]

• [62:37–68:55] The Lord’s Stance on Violence and Actual Zion’s Camp Plans

  • “Peacekeeper” model: The Saints are to reclaim their lands peacefully and only defend if attacked.
  • Casey: “The model isn’t that they’re going to fight. The model is they’re going to present themselves as representatives of God, and if it comes to violence, God is going to fight for them.” [63:45]
  • Dramatic account of the “Battle” of Fishing River: an approaching mob is repelled by a miraculous storm, interpreted by Joseph Smith and others as God’s intervention (“God is in this storm.” [64:10]).

• [68:55–79:57] Organizing Zion’s Camp: Recruitment and Outcomes

  • The Lord gives specific recruitment instructions: seek at least 100 men, up to 500 if possible, to join Zion’s Camp.
  • Minimum requirement is set; recruiting begins with leaders sent out in companionships.
  • In reality, about 205 men and 20–25 women and children make up the Camp, revealing the gap between command and actual turnout.
  • Joseph Smith’s personal doubts run parallel to his faith—recognizes both their small numbers and trusts God may yet enable success.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “As I conceive it, the genius of our church government is government through councils…” – Stephen L. Richards, quoted by Scott ([18:36])

• “It was not the order of heaven in ancient councils to plead for and against the guilty, as in our judicial courts... [every counselor] should speak precisely according to the evidence and according to the teaching of the Spirit of the Lord.” – Joseph Smith ([29:02])

• On the spirit of membership councils:
  “I was genuinely blown away at how much love was shown in these councils for the individual, that it was not the Spanish Inquisition…” – Casey ([23:58])

• On accountability:
  “Membership in the church has to mean something… or it doesn’t really have a point.” – Casey ([41:45])

• On the first disciplinary case:
  “Brother Hodges then rose and said… he had learned more during this trial than he had since he came into the church. He confessed freely his error and said he would attend to overcoming that evil, the Lord being his helper.” – Scott ([44:58])

• On God’s stance on violence and Zion’s Camp:
  “The model isn’t that they’re going to fight. The model is they’re going to present themselves as representatives of God, and if it comes to violence, God is going to fight for them.” – Casey ([63:45])
  “In the Moses and the Red Sea example, the Israelites don’t fight. They follow the Savior’s instructions, and the Savior engages with the enemy, which is the same thing happens here [at Fishing River].” – Scott ([64:10])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–11:19 — Introduction; Transition of council patterns from ancient to modern LDS experience
• 11:19–31:52 — Types of councils, rationale and practical organization, real-world application
• 31:52–35:24 — Outcomes and case studies for church membership councils
• 36:24–46:06 — Controversy and necessity of membership councils; First case study (Curtis Hodges)
• 46:07–56:18 — The Missouri crisis and revelation of Section 103; suffering, chastening, and hope
• 56:18–68:55 — Instructions for “Redeeming Zion”; recruitment of Zion’s Camp; Lord’s stance on violence and justice
• 68:55–79:57 — Recruitment logistics and emotional realities of organizing Zion’s Camp, intended vs. actual outcomes
• 79:57–80:56 — Recap and preview of next episode

Tone and Language

The episode blends earnest doctrinal exploration with accessible, down-to-earth humor (“high councilmen sound like they’re from another planet…” [07:38]), personal anecdotes, and a spirit of transparency and accountability. The hosts stress compassion, institutional integrity, and following God’s will—even in ambiguity.

Conclusion

This episode richly contextualizes D&C 102 and 103, showing their significance for both church government and the Saints’ lived experience. Scott and Casey make clear that the legacy of church councils is vital, humane, and divinely inspired, and that the events surrounding Zion’s Camp are best understood through the lens of peaceful self-defense, faith, and learning—rather than as simplistic tales of vengeance or martial violence. This foundational episode offers listeners clarity about both the letter and the spirit of these formative sections in LDS church history.