Church History Matters Podcast

Episode 171: The Power of Temple Ordinances & Work for the Dead with Jonathan Stapley – E45C November 3-5
Date: October 30, 2025
Hosts: Scott & Casey (Scripture Central)
Guest: Jonathan Stapley

Overview of the Episode

This episode delves deeply into the historical and theological development of temple ordinances in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, particularly during the Nauvoo period and onward. Hosts Scott and Casey engage with renowned historian Jonathan Stapley to explore Joseph Smith’s evolving cosmology, the origin and implications of baptisms for the dead, expanding temple practices, gender and priesthood, and how these practices shape and are shaped by Latter-day Saint community life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joseph Smith’s Nauvoo-Era Cosmology and the Purpose of Ordinances

• Cosmology Redefined
  • Joseph Smith restructured traditional Christian cosmology, creating a new religious worldview regarding God, the afterlife, and the interconnectedness of souls.
    • “In Nauvoo, Joseph Smith just completely obliterates sort of that traditional... dichotomy of heaven and hell. He introduces kind of a history to God, a history to our souls and our spirits. He gives us the temple ceremonies and the work that they do.” (A: 07:54)
• Heaven as Relationships
  • Heaven is conceptualized as a network of eternal relationships, not merely a reward or separate realm.
    • “The end game was this interconnected network of relationships that ultimately he described as kings and queens, priests and priestesses... Heaven was this thing that we built, we constructed, and that’s the end game.” (A: 11:37)
• Sociality as the Essence of Heaven
  • “You’re saying heaven is relationships, it’s all relational.” (C: 12:59)
  • “Yeah. And you’re stuck with it. You have to fix it or you... got to redeem it...” (A: 13:02)
  • Joseph Smith viewed hell as “alone—being disconnected,” inverting traditional conceptions of damnation. (A: 11:37)

2. Baptisms for the Dead: Development and Theological Significance

• Origins in Immediate Need
  • Joseph Smith revealed baptism for the dead in Nauvoo (1840), responding pastorally to grieving members. The practice began creedal, outside standardization.
    • “He gives the idea. And then people go out and do it. Like there’s no church handbook of instructions at this time...” (A: 15:00)
• Cosmic and Legal Foundation
  • Baptism for the dead considered a law “from the foundation of the world.”
    • “He says, look, in the beginning, before the foundations of the world, God established the laws and ordinances by which we’re redeemed... And then he goes to say, hence baptism for the dead.” (A: 15:00)
• Communal Salvation
  • Early Saints saw salvation as communal, not merely individual—a web binding the living and the dead through active remembrance and ordinance, not only “checking off boxes.”
    • “From the earliest moments of the restoration, salvation was a communal affair. It was a community thing. They were building the city of Zion...” (A: 22:29)

3. Temple Ordinances’ Interconnected Path

• Baptism as Adoption
  • Baptism was viewed less as an individual covenant and more as entry or adoption into the family of God, the beginning of integration into the sealed network.
    • “It was more commonly talked about as a means of adoption... integrating these deceased associates into the family, we’re creating that welding link...” (A: 22:27, 22:29)
• Ordinances Progression: From Adoption to Exaltation
  • Baptism is “the gateway,” and subsequent ordinances (washings, anointings, endowments, sealings) shape members into “kings and queens, priests and priestesses,” reflecting the structure of heaven.
    • “We have these temple ceremonies that take the believer and are going to turn them into something else... structure relationships and identity in new ways.” (A: 24:09)
• Inclusive Priesthood in Nauvoo
  • Nauvoo’s introduction of priesthood expanded beyond male ecclesiastical function—priests and priestesses included women, as seen in Joseph Smith’s address to the Relief Society.
    • “Men and women... they call it a quorum. They also call it the priesthood... men and women, you know, they met with the priesthood tonight, or my wife was brought into the priesthood... they’re talking about priesthood as a group of priests...” (A: 27:39)
    • “Joseph Smith tells the Relief Society, I’m going to make you a kingdom of priests, like in the days of Enoch and Paul...” (A: 28:24)
• Modern Language vs. Historical Context
  • The term “priesthood” has shifted meanings—understanding Joseph Smith-era usage requires a return to contemporary definitions (“group of priests,” not ecclesiastical authority).
    • “No, I think it’s a group of priests or the capacity of priests. I think, [that] is the best historical, contextual definition for this period.” (A: 30:13)

4. Temple Practices in Broader Restoration Movements

• Post-Joseph Schisms and Why Other Groups Didn’t Adopt Baptism for the Dead
  • Many restoration offshoots rejected Nauvoo ordinances because of their association with controversial practices (e.g., polygamy).
    • “That complication with plural marriage was one of the big reasons why the temple liturgy largely was not adopted by other Latter Day Saint traditions.” (A: 37:11)

5. Evolving Temple Ordinances: Practice & Policy Over Time

• Nauvoo to Utah to Present
  • Early years saw fluidity and practical adaptation—creedal prayers, proxy work, sealings, and systematization as temple work scaled up.
    • “They go from endowing a handful of people, a couple dozen maybe, to doing thousands... that requires some systematization.” (A: 40:07)
• Changes and Reforms
  • Temple ceremonies, clothing, prayers, and logistical practices have evolved in response to doctrinal clarification, scale, technology (use of film), and changing church policy.
    • “We get white baptismal clothes maybe in the 1890s... what I’d really love to figure out is when we decided short sleeve jumpsuits, unisex jumpsuits.” (A: 39:18)
    • On Endowment Evolution: “In 1877, we have the first temple again. And that’s when they write down most of the ceremonies for the first time. And they go through a series of revisions...” (A: 41:27)
  • Expanding roles for women as healers in the temple, gradually curtailed by the early 20th century.
    • “So they had men and women who were called to administer to the sick at the temple... taken out of the temple about... 1923, early twenties.” (A: 43:33–43:46)

6. Change and Latter-day Saint Tradition

• Expect Change in Ordinances
  • Change is a normative part of the church’s history, from sacrament prayers to baby blessings to how women have participated in ordinances.
    • “We should expect change. I think some people are surprised by change.” (A: 48:09)
    • “During Joseph Smith’s lifetime and up until the 1860s, we extemporized the sacrament prayer every Sunday. So we didn’t use the [written] prayer... we just made it up every week.” (A: 49:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Heaven as Relationships:
  • “Heaven was being connected... where those relationships existed, heaven existed... Heaven was this thing that we built, we constructed, and that’s the end game.” (A: 11:37)
• On Modern vs. Historical Priesthood:
  • “It’s impossible to understand what’s going on in Nauvoo if we don’t use those earlier definitions.” (A: 28:24)
• On Ordinance Change:
  • “People have wrung their hands over [ordinances cannot be changed] because... anyone who’s gone to the temple in the last 10 years has known that we change how we do things there... The law hasn’t changed. We still need to do the things.” (A: 30:34)
• On Doing Church as Community:
  • “I go to church, and I go to church gladly because I am there to meet with the community of saints... build Zion. Ultimately... we’re all going to be bound together in ways that can’t be broken. We’re going to constitute the structure of heaven. And I go to church on Sunday to contribute to that labor.” (A: 51:14)
  • “One of the most important things you can do on the Sabbath isn’t necessarily take the sacrament... but it’s handing the tray to somebody else so that they can. We’re doing this together.” (A: 52:37)
• On Living with Change:
  • “Nothing has to be perfect. It has to be sufficient.” (A: 47:34)
  • “It’s okay. It’s entirely okay that we do the prayer as it’s written and that we want to get it exactly correct... but it’s also okay that they did it differently.” (A: 49:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Joseph Smith’s Reimagined Cosmology – 07:10–11:01
• Heaven as a Network of Relationships – 11:01–14:53
• Origins of Baptism for the Dead – 15:00–18:42
• Baptismal Theology and Communal Salvation – 19:00–23:19
• Development and Connection of Temple Ordinances – 24:04–26:35
• Women and Priesthood in Nauvoo – 27:42–30:13
• Other Restoration Movements & Rejecting Temple Ordinances – 33:18–37:15
• How Ordinances and Temple Practices Developed After Nauvoo – 37:57–46:29
• Surprises in Ordinance History & Normalization of Change – 48:09–50:33
• Personal Testimony and Living Temple Principles – 51:14–54:07

Conclusion: Testimony and Implications for Community Life

Jonathan Stapley concludes that his historical study has fundamentally changed how he approaches church life—he now views church as a communal project, a work of building Zion together, not a consumer experience. Participation in ordinances and communal worship shapes both individuals and the broader relationships that constitute “the structure of heaven.” The history of temple ordinances, with their continual adaptation and focus on communal connection, underlines that Latter-day Saint faith is, at its core, relational and ever-evolving.

Suggested Follow-Up:
For listeners interested in more, see Jonathan Stapley’s books ("Holiness to the Latter Day Saint: Temple Worship," "The Power of Godliness"), and the mentioned podcast episode from the Maxwell Institute with Amy Harris and Rosalyn Welch for the evolving theology of sealings and adoption.