Church History Matters — Episode 175

D&C 134: Latter-day Saint View on Government

Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Scott and Casey

Overview

This episode dives into the Latter-day Saint teachings on government and religion as outlined in Doctrine & Covenants Section 134. Scott and Casey explore the context, content, and controversies of this unique declaration from 1835, analyzing its relevance and legacy, and candidly discussing issues like religious liberty, separation of church and state, and verse 12’s references to slavery. Their conversation highlights how Latter-day Saints navigate the intersection of religious conviction and civic duty—grounded in history, but peppered with lively debate on modern application.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Nature and Context of D&C 134

• Not a Revelation, but a Declaration
  • [01:03] Casey: Explains that Section 134 is a declaration, not a direct revelation from Joseph Smith—believed to be written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, but probably authored primarily by Oliver Cowdery.
  • The section was presented at a General Assembly on August 17, 1835, alongside a statement on marriage (since de-canonized).
  • Joseph Smith was not present at the meeting but was on the committee that included it, and later endorsed its content.
  • [02:24] Casey: “It really does need to be considered within that context, too, especially for some of the content that's in the section.”
• Universal Application
  • [00:16] Scott: Emphasizes the section’s universal language—meant to apply wherever the Saints are found, not just to American members.

Divine Origins and Limits of Government and Religion

• Governments as Divine Institutions—With Limits
  • [05:39] Scott: “We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them… The concept of government, the general idea of government is God ordained, but you can't always apply that to a specific government as such.”
• Standard of Good Government
  • Government should secure “the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.”
  • [07:30] Scott: “It's an endorsement of government, generally speaking. But we're not saying, like, Nazi Germany was instituted of God or something like that.”
• Religion as a Divine Institution—With Limits
  • [08:46] Casey: “We believe that religion in general was instituted of God. We don't think all religions were instituted of God. There's been some bad religions out there… but Latter Day Saints also use the lens of the restored gospel to measure the worth of religious concepts and teachings.”
• Religious Freedom & Non-Coercion
  • Both government and religion can abuse power; Section 134 sets moral standards—neither should infringe on individual liberty of conscience.

Separation of Church and State

• Clear Boundaries
  • [11:07] Scott: “The principle is no compulsory means. Right? There should be bounds, set up by a government, but not compelling anyone to worship a certain way…”
• Civic Duty of Latter-day Saints
  • Saints are admonished to uphold the law, seek justice through civil channels, and be good citizens wherever they live.
  • [12:51] Scott: References Joseph Smith’s statements and Article of Faith 12: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.”
• Non-Sponsorship of Religion by State
  • [16:53] Scott: “The idea is the state cannot sponsor one religion and favor it above another, give it privileges or put another religion down… We don't believe in that.”
• Limits of Church Discipline
  • Church can expel members for disorderly conduct but has no right to infringe on life or property—criminal conduct is the domain of civil law.

Historical Context & Challenges (Slavery & Persecution)

• Verses 11-12: Context of Persecution and Slavery
  • [22:05] Casey: These verses are reflective of contemporary tensions—the Saints’ persecution in Missouri, and the complex realities of slavery.
  • [26:18] Casey (on slavery): “The situation here is this is being written in 1830s America... So this is pre Civil War, pre emancipation proclamation… And so this is them being practical.”
  • The Saints were accused of abolitionist sympathies; the declaration was partly an attempt to avoid further conflict.
  • Joseph Smith’s later presidential campaign explicitly opposed slavery, showing evolving LDS views.

Ongoing Controversies

• Legitimacy of Section 134
  • Some modern groups question its legitimacy since Joseph Smith was absent at adoption—but evidence shows he endorsed it later.
  • [34:20] Casey: “They don't have any documentary evidence where Joseph Smith ever criticized Section 134 and said, no, that just doesn't represent my thinking. No, he was on board.”
• Should Verse 12 Be Removed or Rewritten?
  • [35:28] Casey: Argues that verse 12 (slavery) could be de-canonized or revised, as it’s a relic of its time and does not reflect current doctrine or global realities.
  • [38:51] Casey and Scott: Debate scriptural evolution and the value of “museum” verses as learning tools, even if not applicable now.

Civic Theology and Modern Application

• Church’s Civic Stance
  • [42:59] Casey: “Section 134 is an important part of our civic theology… All section 134 is saying is, hey, government is good, but there should be limits on the power of government. And religion is good, but there should be limits on the powers of religion.”
• Quoting President Dallin H. Oaks:
  • [44:01] Casey (quoting Oaks): “When believers in Jesus Christ take their views of truth into the public square, they must seek the inspiration of the Lord to be selective and wise in choosing which True principles they seek to promote by law or executive action…” —counsel to use religious beliefs wisely as citizens without imposing them unduly on others.
• Balance and Civic Engagement
  • Latter-day Saints encouraged to be civically engaged and “fearless about your own beliefs, but not trying to impose that which is unique to your own religious institution upon others.”
  • [45:29] Scott: “Fearless about defending morals that are universal, but not particulars of your peculiarities…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On government and religion:
  • “Government is good, but there should be limits on the power of government. And religion is good, but there should be limits on the powers of religion.” —Casey [00:00]
• On universality:
  • “Notice that section 134 is written in such a way as to apply wherever the saints are found.” —Scott [00:16]
• On handling slavery (re: verse 12):
  • “We're not trying to change those laws or interfere with them. We believe in obtaining consent from the master. Which again, is pretty outdated. But today. But at the time, it was a real, genuine concern.” —Casey [27:54]
• On scriptural ‘museum’ verses:
  • “Some scripture... is like a museum. It's a place you go where you see in the ancient past and you see some of the problems they were dealing with, which we no longer deal with.” —Scott [37:20]
• On religious pluralism in Nauvoo:
  • “All other religious sects and denominations, whatever, shall have free toleration and equal privileges in this city.” —Scott (quoting Nauvoo ordinance) [21:03]
• On principle of non-coercion in belief:
  • “It becomes our duty on account of this intolerance and corruption—the inalienable right of man being to think as he pleases, worship as he pleases… to guard every ground all the days of our lives.” —Casey (quoting Joseph Smith/ Council of 50) [19:43]
• On modern relevance and moderation:
  • “President Oaks is really fond of saying we seek to moderate and unify, and that's what our thinking in politics should be. And, man, could we use a little bit more of that right now in our current situation.” —Casey [44:18]

Important Timestamps

• [01:03] Context: Declaration, Not Revelation; Oliver Cowdery’s authorship
• [05:39] Endorsement of government—divinely instituted, but not all government actions endorsed
• [07:30] Distinction between idea of government and specific governments
• [08:46] Religion as divinely instituted; abuse of religion
• [11:07] Freedom of conscience and proper bounds of religion and government
• [16:53] Separation of Church and State—no state-sponsored religion
• [22:05] Historical application—persecution, in Nauvoo and Missouri
• [26:18] Discussion of verse 12—slavery, contextualization, and Saints’ practical stance
• [34:20] Legitimacy of Section 134 addressed
• [35:28] Should verse 12 go? Debate on scriptural updates and museum verses
• [42:59] Civic theology and application today; President Oaks’ insights
• [45:29] Balancing religious fidelity and civic pluralism

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is thoughtful, candid, and respectful, with Scott and Casey blending humor and historical insight throughout. They model how to openly discuss thorny issues—like the Church’s historical relationship with slavery or church-state boundaries—while emphasizing principles of moderation, tolerance, and universal civic virtue.
The episode ultimately frames D&C 134 as both a historical artifact and a living document for Latter-day Saints seeking to be principled citizens of any nation.

Useful for listeners seeking to understand:

• How Latter-day Saints view the relationship between government and faith
• The nuances and historical context behind church teachings on civic duty and religious freedom
• How church history continues to shape modern LDS engagement with politics, law, and social issues