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Church History Matters
178 - D&C 137 CFM - This Revelation Saves Most of Mankind - E49 December 1-7
00:37:44
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- [00:00]
A
This is line upon line. The Lord's laying down a line here. This is not the whole story, but it's enough in 1836 to have hope.
- [00:06]
B
There's a way for everybody to make it to the celestial kingdom.
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A
I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.
- [00:14]
B
It's honestly such a load off my mind. This little verse in section 137 saves almost half the human race.
- [00:23]
A
We see that no person is going to be lost who wants salvation. There's no lost opportunity because your circumstances were bad. It's a glimpse into the character of God.
- [00:32]
B
Hello, Scott.
- [00:33]
A
Hi, Casey.
- [00:34]
B
How are you?
- [00:35]
A
So excited to dive into 137, 138 this week. And Casey, I'm guessing these are some of your favorite sections in the Doctrine and Covenants.
- [00:44]
B
I do really love these sections, especially 138. 138 has a special place in my heart. But yes, you have pointed out that I say that every time, but I want to emphasize it is genuine. I do sit there and go, holy cow, we got to talk about section 138 today. I love section 138. Love section 137. I'm trying to think if there's a section of the Doctrine and Covenants that I genuinely think. Ugh, there's really not. Because even talking about difficult stuff like section 132 is fun, you know, it's enjoyable. But these ones are sort of expansion of the canon.
- [01:15]
A
They're relatively new, tacked on at the end. Let's see, 1976, they make it into canon in 1981, they make it to the Doctrine and Covenants. Do I have that right?
- [01:26]
B
Yeah. So they're relatively new. And demonstrate that new stuff added to the Doctrine and Covenants won't necessarily be new revelations, given the leaders, the church could be old stuff that we circle back to and say, hey, that's worth canonizing. So who knows? I think when we talked about Scripture, we did have a what would you canonize? And I said my piece. I put in the King Fallow Sermon. I'm just going to say that again, but that's way above my pay grade.
- [01:53]
A
Yes. And the Wentworth Letter.
- [01:55]
B
Yeah, make that a section of the Doctrine and Covenants. And I'd probably put back in like a couple of the lectures on faith, to be honest with you.
- [02:02]
A
Yeah, nobody's asking our opinion on this, but there it is.
- [02:09]
B
Don't take it too seriously either, because we have no say. We're just spitballing Here.
- [02:14]
A
But it is pretty instructive to note that section 137 comes from Joseph Smith. This is a vision that he had amidst a Pentecostal outpouring that occurs, well, just a couple weeks into what we call the Kirtland Endowment, back way back in 1836. So the chronology, we're kind of bouncing around here. So tell us a little bit more about that. Drop us into the context. Foreign.
- [02:44]
B
Like you mentioned, it really should be Section 109 of the Doctrine Covenants, because that's when it's received before section 109 and before section 110, which both note the dedication of the Kirtland Temple. But it's a vision. It's a vision given to Joseph Smith while he's in the Kirtland Temple. The date is January 21, 1836. So the temple was still sort of under construction of sorts, but they were using it and utilizing the space even before the building was finished. And it's part of this whole Pentecostal season that lasts from January until April in 1836, as they're getting ready to dedicate the temple, which you rightly referred to as the Kirtland Endowment. It's part of the Kirtland endowment. And this even goes all the way back to 1831, where when the Lord commanded the saints to gather to Ohio, he promises them that there you shall be endowed with power from on high. That's section 38. 32. In other words, the word endowment is different now. We use it to refer to the ceremony. But endowment back then meant a great gift that you'd be given this big gift as you come.
- [03:49]
A
A gift of power.
- [03:51]
B
Gift of divine power. Yeah. So we talked about this a little bit when we talked about the discussion or we discussed the dedication of the Kirtland Temple. But seems like there's at least three categories that they eventually say this endowment came through, this gift of power from on high. And one of them was the abundant outpouring of the spirit that happens between January and April of 1836. And we're talking not just Joseph Smith seeing spiritual outpourings. Almost everybody that goes to the Kirtland Temple speaks in tongues, sees an angel, beholds a vision, is filled with power. All kinds of amazing things happen. Two, there were significant doctrinal teachings revealed in relation to the salvation of man and others, including what's recorded here in section 137. And then three, of course, is section 110, which is the visitation of Jesus Christ himself to the Kirtland Temple. And the manifestation of Moses, Elias, and Elijah, those three ancient prophets. Each one of these three is part of the endowment that we should be talking about when we discuss the Kirtland temple.
- [04:51]
A
So D&C137, then, is one example of God fulfilling his promise to bestow power upon the saints. In this case, doctrinal knowledge as power in the form of a vision. Essentially, yeah.
- [05:05]
B
The immediate context is that this is an excerpt from a vision that Joseph Smith records. Immediately after, Joseph and the presidency of the church participated in a ritual of washings and anointings, which we also sometimes refer to these washings and anointings as the Kirtland endowment, Kind of an earlier form of the endowment we're familiar with. The church leaders were up in the third floor of the Kirtland temple in what is called the quorum room. You can still visit this today. Most tours of the Kirtland temple, they'll actually start you in this room, and then they kind of work their way down to the bottom floor where Jesus Christ appeared. But this is similar to the initiatory that we do in modern temples, but also pretty different. Women didn't receive this. Not all men received it. Mostly the leadership of the church received it. They wash themselves with water. They anointed themselves with oil. They even perfumed themselves, the record says, preparatory to the anointing with the holy oil. And then as the sun was setting, the church presidency gathered together a group of leaders. This included the high council in the Kirtland stake and the Missouri stake. Oliver Cowdery recorded that the members of the presidency were, in his words, anointed with the same kind of oil in the manner that were Moses and Aaron and those who stood before the Lord in the ancient days. And Joseph Smith records all this in his journal. This is what he writes. He said, I took the seat and Father, meaning his father, anointed my head and sealed upon me the blessings of Moses to lead Israel in the latter days, even as Moses led them in the days of old. Also the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All of the presidency laid their hands upon me and pronounced upon my head many prophecies and blessings, many of which I shall not notice at this time. But as Paul said, so I say, let us come to visions and revelations. His journal then records this vision found in section 137, and adds this. Many of my brethren who received this ordinance with me saw glorious visions. Also angels ministered unto them as well as myself. And the power of the highest rested upon us. And the house was filled with the glory of God, and we shouted hosanna to God and the Lamb.
- [07:11]
A
I think we talked about this way back with section 109 and 110. It has struck me that the gift of power seems to always come on the heels of the ordinances they were doing. They're doing washings and anointings, and then comes the gift of power, of the visions and the knowledge. Or they're doing washings and anointings and then people will see or gifts of tongues breaks out. Section 110. They did an ordinance right before Jesus came and Moses, Elias and Elijah. That ordinance was the sacrament of the Lord's Supper. It's interesting that it's like this. The ordinance or the ritual is the gateway to the power. Like, it's the way that they were sanctifying themselves in preparation to receive the power. And I think for many years I thought that the ordinance itself was the power. I was kind of in it. But when it clicked for me that it's the gateway to the power, then a lot of this makes sense. And my own experience in the church makes more sense. Right. As you receive the sacrament, the promise is if you keep these three promises, then you may always have his Spirit to be with you. Then comes the power. The power comes as you sanctify yourselves. And the ordinance kind of like helps you to focus. Anyway, just as you were reading again or as you're recounting their experience, I thought, there it is again. There was the ordinance, and then came the power. And that relationship is always significant to me.
- [08:28]
B
Section 84 says in the ordinance that's thereof, the power of godliness is made manifest. Right. So cause, effect. And it's not a mystery that, you know, the big visions and spiritual experiences in the Doctrine and Covenants are associated with ordinances or spiritual things. Reading the Scriptures, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are studying the New Testament. They get section 76. Joseph Smith is participating in the washing and anointing ordinance in the Kirtland Temple, and he gets a vision. And so if someone out there is seeking spiritual guidance or a manifestation, which you don't necessarily should seek unless you really need help or guidance, participating in an ordinance, going to the temple or reading the Scriptures are two ways that God can open the gates, like you said so eloquently, and speak to us.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, I love that. So let me ask a related question. So why is this section so chronologically out of order in the Doctrine and Covenants? Like this should be between sections 108 and 109 chronologically, right?
- [09:29]
B
Yeah. And it's a relatively new addition to the Doctrine and Covenants. I'm guessing they didn't want to mess up the section numbers everybody was already familiar with and that a lot had been written about. So they put it on at the end. But the exact details, because we're also interested in canonization, and this is one of the most recent examples of canonization, is that this was formally added to the Pearl of great price on April 3, 1976, under the direction of Spencer W. Kimball. And then on June 22, 1979, the first presidency announced that this revelation would be moved to the Doctrine and Covenants and designated Section 137 as part of the 1981 edition of the Scriptures. In fact, commenting on this addition to the scriptural canon, Whitkay Packer, who was an apostle at the time, said this. He said, I was surprised, and I think all the brethren were surprised at how casually that announcement of two editions to the standard works was received by the Church. But we will live to sense the significance of it. We will tell our grandchildren and our great grandchildren, and we will record it in our diaries that we were on earth and remember when that took place.
- [10:34]
A
You mentioned two sections. What was the other one?
- [10:36]
B
So the other one, section 138, which. It's nice that they're together because we're going to do them all in one block. And they do have a theme. They both have to do with the afterlife, with work for the dead, with the fate of those who didn't have the chance or may have even rejected the chance to hear the Gospel. But I want to know one thing really fast. If we're talking about candidates for canonization, I also wouldn't have been upset if they just canonized the whole vision. They only canonize part of the vision, and they do kind of get to the meaty part, the part that matters to us. But I want to note there's a second part of the vision that's recorded in Joseph Smith's journal, and it talks about the 12 apostles. This is what he records. So this is the missing part. These are the deleted scenes from section 137. He says, I saw the 12 apostles of the Lamb who are now upon the earth, who hold the keys of this last ministry in foreign land, standing together in a circle, much fatigued, with their clothes tattered and feet swollen, with their eyes cast downward, and Jesus standing in their midst. And they did not behold Him. The Savior looked upon them and wept. I also beheld Elder McClellan meaning William McClellan in the south, standing upon a hill, surrounded with a vast multitude preaching to them and a lame man standing before him, supported by his crutches. He threw them down at his word and leaped as an heart by the mighty power of. And here's an interesting part also. Elder Brigham Young standing in a strange land in the far southwest, in a desert place, upon a rock, in the midst of about two dozen men of color who appeared hostile. He was preaching to them in their own tongue. And the angel of God was standing above his head with a drawn sword in his hand, protecting him. But he did not see it. And I finally saw the 12 in the celestial kingdom of God. I also beheld the redemption of Zion and many things which the tongue of man cannot describe in full. Now, I would have been fine if all of that was canonized, especially the part about Brigham Young preaching in the Southwest, which I don't think the part about William McClellan or Brigham Young literally ever comes true. But it is kind of an interesting foreshadowing.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, I was going to say maybe that's why it's not canonized, because it never happened.
- [12:41]
B
In a metaphorical sense, it did happen. Brigham Young does come to the west. It's the Southwest. He does basically supervise our major missionary efforts to Native Americans. William McClellan's a little bit more of a stretch. I'm just saying. I would have put this in, but I get what they're going for. Let's keep it succinct.
- [12:58]
A
Yeah. It kind of makes you even think, like, is this a vision about possibilities? Is this a vision about what will for sure be. It kind of illustrates a moment where you can ask about the nature of visions, because that William McClellan, we know he's going to leave the church. He's going to be excommunicated in 1838. He's not going to continue. Several of those original 12 apostles he's talking about are going to find themselves outside the church in a matter of the next two years. And yet he sees them in the celestial kingdom of God. So maybe they will. They'll all end up there. But maybe this is a vision of possibilities. Who knows?
- [13:31]
B
Yeah.
- [13:31]
A
Okay. Well, let's. Let's go to the part that was canonized and get the goodness here. So here we go. Our second c. The content. Here's the beginning of the vision. He says, quote, the heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out, I cannot tell. I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire. That seems to support this idea, you know, picking up from John the revelator in Revelation 20: and 21 and 22, and also section 76, that refers to the celestial kingdom as a city. It's called the city of the living God. In section 76, for instance, the gate through which the heirs of the kingdom will enter. The gate of the celestial kingdom. So what if we thought about the celestial kingdom as. As a city where God the Father and the Son are, which he then sees in verse three, also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated, the Father and the Son. I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold. And then verse five, he started seeing people. I saw Father, Adam and Abraham, and then my father and my mother, my brother Alvin, that has long since slept. So this is interesting, right? That the presence of his father and mother indicates that this is a vision of the future, since they're both still alive at that time. In fact, his dad is in the room with him at that moment, maybe even his hands on his head. Still. I'm not sure that the timeline on that, whether his dad's hands came off his head and the vision happened or if it's still happening with the. Anyway, his dad is right there in the room with him when the vision is given. But the thing that seems to truly shock Joseph is that he sees Alvin there. Remember, this is Joseph's oldest brother. This is the one who passed away at age 26 in 1823, right after Joseph had first met Moroni and told the family about it. And Alvin was a believer and he was engaged to be married. Is super sad. Like, he gets some. He had some issue with his stomach, and then this quack doctor gave him what his mom called some calomel, which lodged in his stomach and then became gangrenous. And then he died. And it's like such a tragedy. And it rocked the Smith family. And Alvin's kind of been in the background of their thinking the last couple years. And this moment, as well as a couple others in Nauvoo, really, like, I think, help us to see how much Alvin's death played into the Smith's questions about salvation. This is one right here. He sees Alvin and formulates the question, how. Right. Verse 6, I marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time and had not been baptized for the remission of sins. That's what seems to be so incongruous. And so with that question formulated, boom, down comes a beautiful answer from the Lord.
- [16:25]
B
The detail that he says he sees his father and mother, meaning Joseph Smith Sr. And Lucy Mack Smith, is important too. I know YouTube comment section isn't always the best place to have a thoughtful conversation. One of our earlier videos, we did have a commenter say, well, Joseph saw Alvin in the celestial kingdom. So obviously you don't need to be baptized to go to the celestial kingdom kingdom. But Joseph's father is in the room with him. He's not dead yet. And Joseph's mother doesn't pass away until 1856 or 7. I'm trying to remember right now. And so this is a vision of the future. He's seeing Alvin in the celestial kingdom in the future, which indicates that he's going to get there. But maybe some things have to happen first. And they might not all happen until after his father and mother have passed away, because they're there with him as well. So this is a vision of the future. That's an important detail to note because again, we've got theological things we've got to do to get Alvin there too. He doesn't just get a free ride to the celestial kingdom, but we'll talk about that as we go.
- [17:29]
A
Yeah. In fact, verse seven starts to take us there. Right. So verse six is Joseph formulating the question, marveling, how could Alvin be there? He wasn't baptized. And then comes the voice, verse 7. Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying, all who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received this if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God. Okay, this is taking us a step closer to our understanding today. Most people, if you ask a Latter Day Saint today, like, hey, so what happens to those who die without having received the gospel? We have a pretty ready answer, right? Notice that that ready answer is not what the Lord said. Notice how he says, if they would have received it, then they're going to be heirs of the kingdom. Seems like there's a couple missing pieces here. In terms like you just, just. You just said, are there a couple steps he would need to do? Maybe, but the Lord's not telling us here yet. By the time we get to Nauvoo, then that is laid plain when we start understanding work for the dead. But remember, 1836, there's no work for the dead yet. Elijah by this time had not even come yet. Right. That's going to be in a couple months in April relative to this section. And so we don't even have the keys of the temple work that's going to be done in Nauvoo. And then once we get those, it's going to take a couple years to develop that. And once we get in Nauvoo, the doctrine of baptisms for the dead is revealed. And one of the very first people who's baptized for the dead for is Alvin. Right. Like, doesn't Hyrum go down to the Mississippi and. And do Alvin's work down there?
- [18:53]
B
Yeah.
- [18:53]
A
So this is this an example of line upon line? I think. I think about it like that. This is line upon line. The Lord's laying down a line here. This is not the whole story, but it's enough in 1836 to have hope for the people who have passed.
- [19:05]
B
It might be an example of what our dearly departed friend Stephen R. Covey called beginning with the end in mind. So here's the end. We're going to get Alvin to the celestial kingdom. But the Lord doesn't provide a lot of details, just tantalizes Joseph by basically saying, yeah, your brother's going to make it. In fact, all those who would have received the gospel if they'd been permitted to tarry will be heirs. But he's also not erasing all the other scriptures that talk about the essential nature of baptism, of the covenant path of making those commitments to the Lord, but he's just whetting his appetite, basically showing him there's a way for everybody to make it to the celestial kingdom, even if, heaven forbid, something like what happened to Alvin happens to them as well.
- [19:48]
A
Yeah. When we bring baptisms for the dead into the picture, I think that fleshes this whole thing out. If he would have received baptism had he had the opportunity, then he'll receive it when he has it presented to him in the spirit world. Right. Boom. And then on that same note, look at verse 8 also. All that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of. Of it, who would have received it with all their hearts shall be heirs of that kingdom. The mechanism is left silent. There's no mechanism explained, but the end goal, like you said, the end of the game. There is hope for those people. For the Lord says verse 9, I the Lord will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts. And that's where he leaves it in terms of those who have died without that knowledge or died before they had the chance to receive it. So that's pretty hopeful. He. He leaves them hope without a operator's manual. How about that?
- [20:39]
B
Yeah. And the Lord often does this, right? He basically says, here's what has to happen. How are you going to get it done? And that tends to be his modus operandi. Sometimes he gives us the answer and sometimes he gives us the result he's going for, but allows us to collaborate with him to come up with the means to have it accomplished. After that, the next verse, verse 10, which boy a lot to unpack here too. I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven. And this is less of a bolt out of the blue, just like a total surprise to Joseph and more underlining the thesis again, where Joseph Smith is already aware of this in a general sense, this is really taught in the Book of Mormon. For example, Abinadi teaches this. He says, and little children, all shall shall have eternal life. That's Mosiah 15:25 and Mosiah 3:18. Other revelations found in the Doctrine Covenants contain similar teachings. This is in section 2946, section 4558, section 6820 through 28, and section 74, verse seven. And it's honestly such a load off my mind, it would be for anybody to just say, yes, a child that dies before the age of accountability automatically gets eternal life. In fact, Wilford Woodruff recorded a discourse where Joseph Smith further elaborates on this. This is an 1842 discourse. Joseph Smith thought, the Lord takes many away even in infancy, that they may escape the envy of man, the sorrows and evils of this present world, and they were too pure and too love to live on earth. Therefore, if rightly considered instead of mourning, we have reason to rejoice as they are delivered from evil, and we shall soon have them again. You and I were talking before we hit record, and we were wondering, well, how does this impact Joseph and Emma? I mean, they probably already put it together because they're believers in the Book of Mormon. But at this point, their first child, probably named Alvin, but we're not sure, dies while the Book of Mormon is being translated before the church was even organized. They lose two children right after they arrive. And Kirtland in 1831, the twins, which according to some sources were named Thaddeus and Louisa. There's the Smith family Bible that does list that as their names. It's not in Emma Smith's handwriting. So we're not totally sure, but probably those are their names. Then they adopt the Murdoch twins, the children of John and Julia Murdoch. Julia dies, but her twins live. Emma lives, but her twins dies. And then famously, the little boy twin, Joseph Smith, Merrill Murdoch, dies partially as a result of the mob action that attacks the Johnson farmhouse. Then there's Julia. She's the little girl adopted twin, who's the first Smith child to make it to adulthood. They have Joseph Smith iii, then Frederick and Alexander. But by the time this vision is given to Joseph Smith, they've lost four children. I can't even imagine what that's like. Thank goodness I've never had to deal with this so far, but it's always in the pit of my stomach, right? It's always, you know, when your kid's gone for too long or, you know, you just don't see them and you're at a large gathering. You idea of losing a child is awful. And Joseph and Emma, by the way, are, are, are going to lose two more children, Don Carlos, and then an unnamed son while they're in Nauvoo. So this is not abstract theology for them. This is very, very pertinent.
- [23:59]
A
This is growing out of real life questions. And Joseph Smith and Emma are not major exceptions during this time. Right? So many people have lost children at that time, especially with healthcare being what it was like. I know, I know it still happens today, but thankfully it happens less than it did then. But yeah, this is not sterile theology. They're not just sitting back. What happens to children like this is what happens to Thaddeus, what happens to our little Joseph, what happened to our little Alvin. And that's a lot more visceral and meaningful, I think.
- [24:29]
B
And honestly, there's so many sources from the time that just about every family went through this. Infant mortality rates were so high at this point in time, and maternal mortality rates, like I've sometimes wondered if plural marriage came into play because it's so common for men in the church in the 1830s to say their wife went into labor and they lost their wife or they lost the child or they lost both, that it was just really common back then. And we don't appreciate what a game changer this is. Infant mortality rates are so high until really the mid to late 20th century that we're basically saying this little verse in section 137 saves almost half the human race up to that time. Like it was just so common for a child to die before the age of accountability. That seems like a lot of Heavenly Father's family just made it into the celestial kingdom based on whatever they did in premortality.
- [25:21]
A
I just googled it while you're talking. What exactly was the infant mortality rate in the 1830s in the US and it says it was extremely high, possibly around 30% or even higher, with a broader 19th century range of up to 30% of children dying before their first birthday and 43% not surviving past age five. It says, for example, in 1800, for example, the child mortality rate under five was over 46%. You were just spitballing, saying about half. And yeah, it's just, just under half.
- [25:50]
B
And that's in the United States, which I don't know where we rate it on healthcare. We probably weren't the best back then, but there were probably still other places. This little verse, it's super comforting and it's a great way to end the section.
- [26:03]
A
It packs a big theological punch of hope and of, I think, a glimpse into the character of God. I know not all Christians had been on the same page when it comes to, to what happens to the unbaptized, what happens to children who don't get Christened or baptized. And this takes all that angst away in such a beautiful one verse stroke. It's powerful. Okay, so controversies of section 137 here, Casey. We've kind of touched on these, but maybe we could just hit them straight on. Why do you think doctrine and covenants 133 here in 1836 doesn't offer more specifics on how people are saved? Like, why not mention baptisms for the dead? Why not talk about how it all fits together? Why do you think it was done this way without really getting into the details?
- [26:56]
B
Well, in the strictest sense, we just don't know. Right. We don't know why the Lord didn't just give Joseph the whole enchilada back then.
- [27:03]
A
Yeah, give him the manual. Right. Give him. Give him the A to Z manual. This is how it's all done. Go.
- [27:09]
B
Yeah, explain in great depth. The other thing that throws us off is this comes after some of those crucial sections, like section 124 and 127 and 128 that do explain in great depth Baptism for the dead and the theology of work for the dead. So that can be a little trippy, too.
- [27:25]
A
It only comes after those in section number, but not chronology. Right. And that's what throws us off.
- [27:31]
B
That throws us off because we're assuming we've got this problem all sewn up, and then section 137 is here. So you have to make the mental leap to say, nah, this was a couple years, four years before section 124, I think seven years before section 127 and 128 are received. The other thing is, when you and I did our deep dive on the development of temple ordinances, we were really surprised how much we had assumed that this was just all laid out, that the Lord gave everything through revelation, when really it's clearly one part revelation and one part perspiration. On Joseph Smith's part, where it's like the analogy I mentioned earlier with the brother of Jared, where I'm going to tell you how to solve the problem of having air in your ships, but you got to solve the problem of how to have light in your ships. And Joseph Smith basically studies the Scriptures deeply, comes across this passage in 1 Corinthians 15:29, where Paul talks about baptism for the dead and makes the leap basically, and says, it seems like they did do baptisms anciently for the dead. I've brought that scripture up with a lot of my friends of other faiths, and I've never heard a really satisfied explanation for what Paul was talking about there that I think fits the context. Paul's using it as evidence for the resurrection. And so it seems weird when people are like, well, it was just a weird niche practice. And I'm like, no, Paul is citing it as evidence for why the resurrection is so important. We're not going to do all his work if there's no resurrection for the dead, is essentially what he's saying. So I'm okay with the idea that God basically gave Joseph the puzzle pieces, you like to say the Lego pieces, and then allowed him to kind of construct the. Or the ordinance surrounding it. Because really, no revelation of new ordinances, just the only connection that needed to be made was that these ordinances could be practiced on behalf of those that are deceased. That seems to be the mental leap that Joseph made once he received the sealing keys.
- [29:28]
A
And then when he leaned into that, that's when the revelation came. Circumstance and scripture study led him to inquire deeper. And then out comes the theology and the practices that Lego together equal our theology for the dead, our work for the dead that we do in temples today. Yeah, so section 137 is laying down maybe a theological line. It's not the whole line. If you think about, like, watching those people draw on YouTube, where it's like you kind of like, watch the whole thing, like, come together I like watching those videos actually, where they're just like kind of fast forward, you know, and here's one of the lines and you don't know what it's going to turn into yet. It's like. But just lays out the hope. And then in Nauvoo, that's. Out comes the rest of it. Like it's. He just wasn't done yet with the theological picture. And why the timing? Why not give it all at once? I'm with you. I think ultimately we don't know why he didn't do that earlier, but the way it plays out is it worked. So here we are.
- [30:24]
B
So I got a question for you. Why do you think 1976 for canonization and 1981, why did this take so long to put into the Dark Doctrine and Covenants? What do you think?
- [30:33]
A
I think that's a great question. It's a better question than I have an answer to. I, I don't know. It's. Now that it's in the scriptures, it kind of seems like a no brainer, right? It's like, why wasn't this put in in Joseph Smith's day? I honestly don't know. This was in the history of the church, right? That's where it was pulled from. I'm gonna have to pull a big, big goose egg. I don't know, Casey, I got nothing to go on, do you?
- [30:52]
B
I mean, it seems like the moments of opportunity where Joseph Smith could have put this in the Doctrine covenants in the 1844 edition or in 1876, Brigham Young and Orson Pratt are adding a whole bunch of sections to the Doctrine Covenants. This would have been a good time to do it. I'm not saying anything with certainty here. I'm theorizing. We are used to Russell M. Nelson announcing temples all over the place. And I've long ago given up on knowing all the temples. But when this was added to the Doctrine and Covenants, I remember a lady in my ward telling me, to graduate from Primary, you had to memorize all the temples, which at the time were reasonably really in the 20s, maybe, maybe lower. The first real explosion in temple building comes immediately after this under Spencer W. Kimball. And that was when we started to get temples in a lot of places. Temples in the Pacific, first temple in Africa, first temple built in Australia, in Japan. So I mean, the timing is fortuitous because these two sections which do so much to reinforce temple theology come right after we really get into the first great era, era of mass temple building. And I'm Going to say the second great era is under Gordon B. Hinckley, when the concept of smaller temples is introduced. And now we are living in what's probably the golden era of temple building. And I don't know what comes after this. You know, you saw at the last conference when President Oak said, we're not going to announce any new temples. We got 200 temples we got to build. It's really hard to imagine in the future, 400 or 500 or 600, but maybe we'll get there. So it is fortunate and it's timing, although I don't know if that's the reason why.
- [32:28]
A
So you're saying that that was a temple was on the mind of President Kimball when these were nominated to be put into the scriptures. And so both section 137 and 138, that deal with the salvation of the family of God after death, what happens? The work in the spirit world was section 138. And I'd call section 137 like a master class on edge cases in salvation. You know, like, they're the what abouts. What about people who never got baptized? What about those people? What about people who never even knew about it? What about little kids? It's like all the edges, you know, it's like you teach the doctrine of baptism, and from that, out comes all these what about questions. And 137 is hitting all those edge cases. Boom, boom, boom. And then 138 is going to build on that with like, here's what systematically is happening in the spirit world and why I work for the dead matters. And so. Ooh, that's interesting. That's an interesting thought that President Kimball puts these both in. In there. At the very time that temple expansion was really starting to get underway.
- [33:24]
B
Yeah, first temples built in South America. I mean, in 75, the year before is when the Washington, D.C. temple, which is a huge milestone, a lot of the older members of the church will recall a temple on the east coast of the United States. We're headed into the first big phase of Mass international temple building. So good timing there, but just a historical connection. I don't know if President Kimball himself made that connection, but it's clear he was intent on making the temple a serious part of what we do. He's the guy behind the three missions of the church, isn't he?
- [33:56]
A
Okay, good theory. I like it.
- [33:58]
B
Okay, well, let's talk consequences of section 137.
- [34:07]
A
I think Section 137 does a great job with edge case questions. The what about questions after the doctrine is understood about baptism, how essential it is now, the what about questions. And it's just. It just nails those perfectly without over explaining the mechanism. But it just gives the hope really beautifully. The truths in section 137 we. We mentioned at the beginning are examples of God's endowment of power. I think there's some very empowering truths here. The power of comfort, the power of hope that comes from the. The doctrine here. If you've ever lost someone that you loved particularly concerned about their salvation, section 137 is powerful. It allows for this. We see this blend of perfect mercy and justice. For there's no timeline, no arbitrary timeline of death that cuts you off from God's promises and mercy. It does not. Again, this paves the way, I think, nicely theologically for the practice of baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo to emerge. And it's off to the races from there. So we see that no person is going to be lost who wants salvation. If you want it, if you would have received it had you had the opportunity, then you will receive it later. There's no lost opportunity because your circumstances were bad, that you had an unfortunate timing or location of where you were born or when you were born or whatever. All those questions are eliminated with section 137. And it's just beautifully hopeful. It's a glimpse into the character of God. How about you?
- [35:29]
B
I keep going back to the puzzle pieces analogy, that this is one of the most important puzzle pieces given to Joseph, that he just knows his brother's going to make it. But it does take a while for him to assemble it. And we should note Joseph Smith is just at the beginning of the process of assembling our theology of work for the dead when he's killed in 1844. The first temple where all of the ordinances for the dead was practiced is not Kirtland and not Nauvoo, it's St. George. There's a historic temple right there still operating in our midst. That's where we do the first baptisms, initiatories, endowments and sealings for the dead. That's where the whole picture comes together. And it comes together through the collaboration of Wilfred War Woodruff, who's going to be the first temple president there, and Brigham Young, who says, yeah, Joseph told us he was giving us kind of the rough sketch and now we had to fill in the particulars. And that's where we really kind of start firing on all cylinders, where the common practices that we're used to in all temples around the world today originate from. So I would say, you know, if we're ranking restoration temples, Kirtland, Nauvoo, and St. George has got to be up there, too, as one of the most important structures the church builds in its history, because that's where it really all comes together.
- [36:43]
A
Yeah, well said. Shout out St. George Temple District.
- [36:46]
B
Go get them, Dixie. Well, section 137 is small, but it packs a punch. It really does present this expansive view of salvation. I'm blown away that it was not included in the Doctrine and covenants till 76, but so glad that it's there because it just answers so many questions questions. And more importantly, provides assurance to those who've lost people that didn't have a chance to hear the gospel, whether they're old or young. So amazing section. And I think next time we're going to continue this theme with section 138 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which is also about the post mortal spirit world and how people come unto Christ there.
- [37:21]
A
We'll see you over in section 138.
- [37:23]
B
Yeah, see you in section 138.
- [37:29]
A
Sam.