Church History Matters – Episode 187

Title: Should Science Affect Our Understanding of Scripture?
Hosts: Scott & Casey
Date: January 13, 2026
Science & Religion Series

Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott and Casey continue their deep-dive into the relationship between science and scripture within the Latter-day Saint tradition. They grapple with how modern scientific understanding should (or should not) inform our reading of ancient religious texts. Through a series of scriptural examples, they illustrate the need for a balanced interpretive approach—steering clear of both extreme literalism and radical allegorism. The hosts discuss the theological purpose of scripture and demonstrate how recognizing genre and authorial intent can help reconcile apparent conflicts between science and faith.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Purpose and Nature of Scripture

• Scripture is not a science textbook:

  • Biblical texts are products of "human and divine collaboration" by ancient authors.
  • Written in the language, worldview, and culture of their time, "primarily for the purpose of doing theology, not science." ([04:00])
  • Quote (Casey):

    "If we keep that kind of mindset in the back of our heads, the scriptures can really become super illustrative of how we live our lives. As long as we're using them for what they're meant for, which is giving us purpose, reason and morality." (04:00)

• Avoiding false conflicts:

  • Modern readers often bring scientific expectations to ancient theological documents, which can lead to unnecessary faith crises and confusion.
  • The Genesis creation account, for example, reflects ancient cosmology (flat earth, dome sky) used to teach theological truths, not science. ([05:18])

2. The Thomas Jefferson “Bible” Example: Limits of Scientific Editing

• Jefferson’s approach:
  • Jefferson created his own version of the New Testament, physically cutting out all the supernatural and miraculous accounts, retaining only the moral teachings ([06:41], [09:27]).
  • Quote (Scott):

    "His method of scripture editing should probably tingle our spidey senses and raise some concerns." (09:27)

  • The hosts caution against "Jefferson-ing the scriptures," warning that a purely rational, scientifically filtered reading risks gutting the core claims of Christianity, beginning with the resurrection.

3. Maintaining Faith in the Miraculous

• Miracles are essential, not optional:

  • Christianity fundamentally depends on belief in real miracles, especially Christ’s literal resurrection.
  • Quote (Scott):

    "At the heart of true Christianity is the belief in the miracle of Jesus’ literal resurrection. Take that away and...you don't have Christianity anymore." (11:01)

  • Modern science may not explain miracles, but they remain at the heart of theology and history.

• Balance required:

  • Don’t force fit scripture into a scientific mold (“ultra-literalism”).
  • Don’t explain away all miracle stories as metaphor (“ultra-allegorism”).
  • Both extremes diminish the power and purpose of scripture ([15:07]).

4. Navigating Literal and Figurative Readings: Avoiding Extremes

• Uber-literalism:

  • Taking every scriptural statement as historical or scientific fact leads to conflict with established science and can promote fundamentalism.
  • Examples: Six-day creation, cutting off one’s hand (Sermon on the Mount). ([14:41])

• Ultra-allegorism:

  • Treating everything as symbol or metaphor strips scripture of historical grounding and can make doctrine entirely subjective (e.g., denying the historicity of the Exodus or the Book of Mormon). ([15:07])

• The Middle Path:

  • Acknowledge that determining when scripture is literal or figurative is difficult—even seasoned scholars like Joseph Fielding McConkie couldn’t devise a universal guide ([17:03]).
  • Sustained theological richness emerges when we accept that scripture can be both literal and figurative, according to context.
  • Quote (Casey):

    "It's almost impossible to tell in every situation when it was being literal and when it was being figurative...we need to find this happy medium or this mental flexibility to be able to navigate the middle." (17:03)

5. Scriptural Case Studies: Applying the Principle

a) Creation of Adam & Eve (Genesis 2)

• Ancient symbolism, not biology:
  • Hebrew wordplay: Ha Adam (human) from Adamah (ground) → emphasizes humanity’s link to earth.
  • “Rib” (Heb. selah) actually means “side”—signifies equality and partnership, not subordination.
  • Prophets (Kimball, Young, Packer) affirm non-literal, figurative readings here ([25:39]).
  • Quote (Scott):

    "The creation account in Genesis 2 is not about anatomy... It’s a theological manifesto on human nature, a reflection on gender equality, and on marriage..." (32:54)

b) The Flood of Noah (Genesis 6–9)

• Not a scientific account of global geography:
  • The purpose is theological: The Flood is a "reversal of creation" as divine judgment for human violence and a story of covenant, mercy, and renewal—not a scientific explanation for natural phenomena ([33:25]).
  • The details reflect the author’s ancient worldview and genre (“theological historiography”).
  • Quote (Scott):

    "These theological points are really what's happening in the midst of this story, which has details that are not scientific. The historical details serve this transcendent message about God's goodness, his mercy, and his willingness to try again..." (40:53)

  • The exact literal scope (global or local) is less important than the spiritual lessons about judgment and mercy.

c) Jacob’s Wrestling with the Angel (Genesis 32)

• Literal & figurative layers:
  • The text may depict a real event, but is rich in symbolism (struggle for blessings, transformation), with the name "Israel" meaning both "let God prevail" and "one who wrestles with God" ([46:05]).
  • The lesson is about the personal struggle inherent in spiritual growth, not just a record of a supernatural wrestling match.

d) Jesus Casting Out Evil Spirits (Mark 1 & 9)

• Historical genre, ancient diagnosis:
  • Some New Testament stories of possession may be best read as literal spiritual confrontations; others may reflect the limitations of ancient understanding (e.g., mental illness diagnosed as “demon possession”).
  • Quote (B):

    "If you read it too literally, you might lose the power of knowing that Jesus can heal mental illness... if you read it too allegorically, you’ll lose the belief that Jesus can still miraculously heal people..." ([59:52])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the function of scripture:

  “Scripture texts are the result of human and divine collaboration, written by ancient authors embedded in their own cultures, and crafted... primarily for the purpose of doing theology, not science.” (04:00)

• On the dangers of Jeffersonizing scripture:

  “If we only read scripture through the lens of modern scientific... assumptions... we can end up making a mess of scripture.” (09:27)

• On the importance of miracles:

  “Take away the miracle, the resurrection, [and]...you don't have Christianity anymore.” (11:01)

• On finding a balanced approach:

  “Sometimes scripture is literal, sometimes it’s figurative. Sometimes we need to be mentally flexible enough to say it could be both at the same time.” (17:03)

• On the symbolism of marriage and creation:

  “Not from his head as in to rule over him, nor from his feet to be trampled on by him, but from his side, to be equal with him...” ([Classic Matthew Henry, paraphrased by Casey], 28:47)

Suggested Approach to Reading Scripture

• Start with the theological intent:
  Ask: What is this author saying about God, humanity, and the divine relationship?
• Be genre-aware:
  Distinguish between theological narrative, historical narrative, and other genres.
• Accept mystery and ambiguity:
  It is not always clear where literal ends and figurative begins, and that’s acceptable.
• Avoid building your faith solely on harmonizing scripture with current science.
• Recognize the power of scripture to inspire literal, real-life action and spiritual transformation, regardless of historical or scientific questions.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:15 — The “Scripture paradigm” summary statement.
• 06:41 — The Thomas Jefferson Bible anecdote and warning.
• 11:01 — Why miracles are non-negotiable in Christianity.
• 17:03 — The search for a universal literal/figurative guide: The “middle path.”
• 25:39 — Prophets’ statements on the figurative nature of Adam and Eve’s creation.
• 33:25 — The Flood as theological narrative, not scientific explanation.
• 46:05 — Wrestling with angels: literal and figurative readings of Jacob’s story.
• 52:03 — Demonic possession, mental illness, and genre awareness in Gospel accounts.
• 59:52 — The need to avoid both literalistic and allegorical reductionism.

Closing Thoughts & Preview

• Staying theologically focused allows readers to appreciate the scriptures’ depth without unnecessary conflict with modern science.
• The conversation will continue next time with Dr. Jamie Jensen, a scientist and epistemology expert who will share her perspective on integrating scientific and spiritual ways of knowing. ([62:22])

Summary by Church History Matters Podcast, Episode 187 (Science & Religion Series).