Podcast Summary: Church History Matters – BYU Biologist Talks Faith & Science

Podcast: Church History Matters (Scripture Central)
Episode: 188 - BYU Biologist Talks Faith & Science | Science & Religion
Date: January 20, 2026
Guest: Dr. Jamie Jensen, BYU Biology Professor
Hosts: Scott and Casey

Main Theme

In this rich and nuanced conversation, hosts Scott and Casey are joined by Dr. Jamie Jensen of BYU to explore the complexities and beauty found at the intersection of science and faith, especially within the Latter-day Saint tradition. The episode focuses on reconciling scientific understanding (like evolution) with religious belief, discussing epistemology (how we know what we know), strategies for handling apparent conflicts, the significance of spiritual evidence, and practical advice for believers who wrestle with questions at the boundary of faith and science.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Dr. Jamie Jensen and Her Work

• Jamie Jensen is a BYU biology professor who specializes in the intersection of science and religion, focusing on evidence-based teaching and overcoming perceived conflicts (01:12).
• She has co-authored resources for faithful seekers, notably the free PDF The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and Evolution and the book Let's Talk About Science and Religion (03:03, 04:13).

2. Personal Background: Integrating Science and Faith

• Jamie shares her upbringing in a non-traditional Latter-day Saint household, influenced by a grandfather who was a nuclear physicist (05:20).
• Her deep love for science paralleled a journey of faith; she gravitated to teaching and, after arriving at BYU, recognized difficulty among students in reconciling evolution with their beliefs (05:19–07:11).

3. The Role of Epistemology

• Epistemology: Defined as "how we answer questions" or the tool we use to discern knowledge (09:19).
• Science and religion are different epistemologies, best suited to answer different types of questions:
  • Science explains the mechanisms of the natural world ("how the natural world works" – 11:53).
  • Religion/ethics address values, meaning, purpose, and what we should do (12:05).
• Problems arise when these epistemologies are used to answer questions they aren’t suited for (12:42).
  • "You need to use the right tool for the right problem." (12:58)

4. Common Flashpoints of Conflict

• Major tension arises around topics like evolution, genetics versus agency, miracles versus medical technology, and environmental stewardship (13:33).
• The "God of the Gaps" reasoning is critiqued as dangerous (14:52):
  • If belief in God is based on gaps in scientific knowledge, faith is threatened as those gaps close.
  • "If you base your testimony on 'this has to be God,' then you’re setting your testimony up for defeat." (16:07)

5. Avoiding "God of the Gaps": Building Testimony on Spiritual Evidence

• Spiritual knowledge should be the foundation of faith, not mysteries science hasn’t yet explained (18:27).
• "If you're going to make decisions about whether or not God exists, you should not be using science as an epistemology." (18:27)
• Spiritual evidence is gained through: scripture, prophets, personal revelation, feelings confirmed by the Spirit, and lived religious experience (20:30).
• Spiritual evidence is "shareable but not transferable"—each person must gain it for themselves (21:59).
  • "I have lots of students...in crisis because they feel like they haven’t felt the Spirit the same way other people have...Everybody’s instrument is a little different..." (20:30)

6. Embracing Uncertainty and Intellectual Humility

• Both science and religion require a comfort with uncertainty and recognition of limits to current knowledge (28:57).
• Students and believers must learn to "sit with uncertainty," understanding that not all questions have immediate answers (28:57–32:53).
  • "As scientists, we put things on the shelf all the time because we don't have the technology yet or we don't have the evidence." (33:00)

7. Biblical Hermeneutics (“Right Tool for the Right Text”)

• Jamie illustrates her own experience confronting scriptural accounts—like Genesis 1—that appear at odds with modern science (35:40).
• Latter-day Saints, she notes, are often undertrained in scriptural interpretation (hermeneutics).
• "Scripture texts are the result of a human-divine collaboration written by ancient authors, embedded in their own cultures, and crafted by those authors primarily for the purpose of doing theology, not science." (40:03)
  • Jamie: "Wow. That's perfect…Yeah, that's perfect." (40:09)

8. Doctrinal Issues: The Fall and “No Death Before the Fall”

• The “no death before the Fall” concept is not Latter-day Saint doctrine; scientific evidence for pre-human death is overwhelming (41:16).
• Scriptural statements about death before the Fall are likely figurative or refer to spiritual death (41:16–43:11).
  • "Whether things lived and died for millions of years before Adam and Eve is...proven." (41:44)

9. Handling Statements from Past Church Leaders

• Not all statements from church leaders are doctrine; past leaders spoke from their knowledge and context (44:36).
• Compassion and respect are essential, but doctrinal authority is not vested in any one leader’s opinion (45:49).

10. Reconciling Differing Beliefs within the Church

• Acceptance of evolution is not necessary for salvation or community; unity is more important than uniformity in scientific views (46:31).
  • "If you can't accept that evolution is real, I'm okay with that...it's not the be all end all of importance." (46:31)

11. How Evolution Strengthens Faith

• For Jamie, understanding evolutionary processes deepens awe for God as Creator:
  • "The creation is amazing...but getting to study the actual mechanisms by which God did it, which I think is evolution, it just makes it even more inspiring." (47:52)
  • “It was a brilliant way to create what God needed to create for us to live out the plan.” (48:44)

12. Where Adam and Eve Fit in Human Origins

• Multiple plausible scenarios exist for Adam and Eve within scientific frameworks; none are doctrinally mandated (50:54).
  • Genealogically, tracing ancestry to two individuals is possible conceptually, but genetically their signature is quickly diluted.
  • "Could Adam and Eve have been there somewhere? Absolutely...there's no way to disprove that Adam and Eve weren't real." (53:17)
  • For more, Jamie recommends the “Hover” tool video at her website (56:24).

13. Jamie’s Spiritual Love Language: Finding God in Science

• Scientific discovery strengthens her testimony by providing insight into the beauty and function of God’s plan (57:37).
• “God’s a masterful scientist, a masterful creator. And that's where I find the greatest joy.” (58:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jamie Jensen on Epistemology:
  "It's a fundamental problem of understanding epistemology...helping people understand what questions science can answer, what questions it can't...if you don't understand that...it can lead to a lot of confusion." (08:21)

• On “God of the Gaps”:
  "It is dangerous to believe in God only when his existence resolves uncertainty—when his existence explains things you do not understand." (17:16, C quoting Jamie's book)

• On Spiritual Evidence:
  "Spiritual evidence is shareable. You can share your testimony, but I can't transfer it to you. Everybody has to do it for themselves." (21:59)

• On Uncertainty:
  "[As] you become epistemologically sophisticated, you learn how to sit with uncertainty a little bit better." (28:57)

• On Biblical Hermeneutics:
  "The training that Latter-day Saints get on biblical hermeneutics for instance...is really kind of sad...we need more training in scriptural interpretation." (37:17)

  • Hosts’ summary: "Scripture texts are...crafted...primarily for the purpose of doing theology, not science." (40:03)
    • Jamie: "Wow. That's perfect...Yeah, that's perfect." (40:09)

• On Accepting Different Scientific Beliefs in Church:
  "If you can't accept that evolution is real, I'm okay with that...it's not the be all end all of importance for me." (46:31)

• On Evolution Deepening Faith:
  "Getting to study the actual mechanisms by which God did it, which I think is evolution, it just makes it even more inspiring." (47:52)

Important Timestamps

• Epistemology & Conflict: 08:21–12:05
• "God of the Gaps" Reasoning: 14:52–18:27
• Spiritual vs. Scientific Evidence: 18:27–23:29
• Embracing Uncertainty: 28:57–34:47
• Hermeneutics & Biblical Interpretation: 35:40–40:30
• No Death Before the Fall & Doctrinal Flexibility: 41:16–45:49
• Reconciling Church Diversity on Science: 46:31–47:36
• Personal Impact of Science on Faith: 47:52–50:02
• Adam and Eve in Science/Religion: 50:54–56:24
• Faith Journey & Spiritual "Love Language": 57:37–59:07

Resources Mentioned

• Let’s Talk About Science and Religion by Jamie Jensen and Seth Bybee (Deseret Book)
• The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and Evolution (free PDF, BYU College of Life Sciences)
• BYU Reconciling Evolution Website (with "Hover" tool video repository)

Episode Tone & Takeaways

Jamie’s tone is accessible, compassionate, and deeply faithful, advocating for intellectual humility, a broad view of revelation, and unity in diversity. By emphasizing epistemological clarity, openness to uncertainty, and respect for both sacred texts and scientific discoveries, she models how believers can faithfully navigate difficult questions without choosing between science and faith.

Closing Remark

This episode is invaluable for anyone navigating scientific and religious questions in the Latter-day Saint tradition—full of practical wisdom, hope, and an abiding sense that faith and reason, approached rightly, are complementary tools for seeking ultimate truth.