Church History Matters | Episode 189

Title: Is Evolution a Threat to Faith? | Science & Religion Series
Date: January 27, 2026
Hosts: Scott Woodward (A) and Casey Griffiths (B)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the question: “Is evolution a threat to Latter-day Saint faith?” Scott and Casey explore the history, theology, and official positions (or lack thereof) of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding evolution. They examine scriptural interpretations, leadership statements, official publications, and the role of individual faithful inquiry. The conversation is candid, rooted in scholarship, and intended to support listeners—especially those grappling with perceived conflicts between science and faith.

Key Points & Discussion Segments

1. Why Talk About Evolution in a Church Context?

• [00:07 | 01:27] Both hosts note that many students struggle in their faith over science/religion conflicts, evolution chief among them.
  • A (Scott): "We are drawn to the controversies, again, primarily because you and I see over and over again students who struggle in their faith because of this kind of stuff."
• This episode is part of an ongoing Science and Religion series.

2. Epistemology: Science & Religion as Distinct Toolkits

• [01:44 – 03:07] Recap of previous episodes, recalling expert Jamie Jensen's view:
  • Science answers questions of mechanism (how, when, where); religion deals with meaning (why).
  • “When we use the right epistemology for the question at hand, we really don't have a problem.” (B [01:55])
• Proper scriptural hermeneutics emphasized:

  "Scripture texts are the result of a human divine collaboration... crafted primarily for the purpose of doing theology, not science." (A [03:26])

3. Interpreting Scripture: Literal and Allegorical Dangers

• [04:24 – 08:42]
  • Dangers of “uber-literalism” and “ultra-allegorical” readings.
  • Realism is necessary: scriptural authors sometimes prioritize theology/symbolism over strict chronology.
  • A: “...sometimes John's Gospel is called a theological biography instead of a chronological one.” ([05:27])

4. Science & Leadership in Church History

• [09:38 – 11:36]
  • Many Church leaders have backgrounds in science (e.g., Talmage, Widtsoe, Nelson) as well as law, humanities, etc.
  • Diversity leads to a variety of perspectives, including on evolution.
  • Leaders are human and bring prior worldviews to their roles:

    "When God makes the prophet, he does not unmake the man..." (A quoting David O. McKay [10:35])

5. Defining ‘Evolution’ and ‘Official Position’

• [12:29 – 15:03]
  • Neutral definition sourced from ChatGPT:

    "Evolution is the change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations."

  • What constitutes Church doctrine?
    1. Harmonized Scriptural Canon
    2. Cumulative teachings of Church leaders
    3. Current & correlated Church publications
    4. Documents representing united voice of First Presidency & Twelve

6. Scriptural Analysis: What Do the Scriptures Actually Say?

• [16:52 – 41:40]
  • No scriptural revelation intends to address evolution directly.
  • A: “I'm just going to say. No, I'm going to say... the scripture is agnostic on this issue...” [17:31]
  • Verses from Genesis/Moses used by both sides; ambiguous regarding scientific mechanisms.
  • Common ‘Conflicting’ Scriptures:
    • 2 Nephi 2:22 (no death before the fall): Debate whether it refers to just Eden or the whole world.

    “…this may just be how Lehi understood it... He could be wrong." (A [29:48])

    • D&C 77 (7,000-year-old earth): Option for symbolic/non-literal interpretation.
      • A: “Good luck trying to figure out how time works for God.” ([39:32], quoting Alma 40:8)
  • A: “I maintain there are no scriptures that are weighing in on this question. And therefore from, from scripture itself... evolution could totally be true and that would be totally fine, scripturally speaking.” ([40:44])

7. Cumulative Teachings of Church Leaders

• [41:57 – 57:53]
  • Against Evolution:
    • Joseph Fielding Smith:

      “If evolution is true, the church is false.” ([43:53])

    • Bruce R. McConkie: Seven Deadly Heresies

      “There are those who believe that the theory of organic evolution runs counter to the plain and explicit principles set forth in the Holy Scriptures...” ([47:28])

  • Open to Evolution:
    • John A. Widtsoe:

      "The law of evolution or change may be accepted fully. It is an established fact, so far as human power can determine..." ([46:29])

    • James E. Talmage:

      "Evolution is true so far as it means development and progress and advancement in all the works of God." ([51:04])

    • David O. McKay: Church has officially “no position” ([51:42])
    • Stephen L. Richards:

      “…if the evolutionary hypothesis…is ultimately found to be correct… I shall neither be disappointed nor displeased if it shall turn out so to be." ([49:31])

  • B: "It’s clear that there wasn't total consensus among the leaders of the church." ([52:19])
  • Recent Leaders’ (Holland, Christofferson) Modesty: Emphasis on faith, purpose, and acknowledgment of uncertainties regarding details.

8. Official First Presidency Statements

• [57:53 – 71:58]
  • 1909: "The Origin of Man"
    • Humanity created in God’s image; creation is both spiritual and temporal.
    • Strongly pushes against random, purposeless origin, but leaves mechanism ("how") ambiguous.

      “…nothing...to indicate that the original man…began life as anything less than a man…” ([65:18])

  • 1925: "The Mormon View of Evolution"
    • Reiterates creation in God’s image, emphasizes premortality/spirit origins, not mechanism.

      “…by experience through ages and eons of evolving...” ([70:04], referencing personal progression)

  • Both leave evolution as a possibility for mechanism, as long as divine direction, purpose, and spiritual identities are maintained.

9. Current & Correlated Church Publications

• [72:36 – 78:00]

  • 2016 New Era Q&A:

    “The Church has no official position on the theory of evolution... Organic evolution...is a matter for scientific study. Nothing has been revealed concerning evolution, though the details of what happened on earth before Adam and Eve, including how their bodies were created, have not been revealed.” ([72:36])

  • Article distinguishes core doctrines (divine creation/premortality/purpose) from unanswered mechanisms.

  • A (Scott): “So that latest correlated material states directly that the Church has no official position on the theory of evolution.” ([76:00])

10. Synthesis: Levels of Doctrinal Confidence

• [77:21 – 80:39]
  • Core doctrines: purposeful, divinely-directed creation; premortal spirit children; Adam and Eve as first spirit children on earth.
  • Evolution as a mechanism remains an open, “esoteric” question; Latter-day Saints are free to think for themselves.

    “When we're approaching them theologically, when we're using the religious epistemology that we've talked about, we don't really know the answer. So in my mind, there's not really a conflict with science.” (B [79:56])

11. Conclusions and Forward Path

• [80:39 – episode end]
  • The church does not prescribe a specific stance on evolution; core spiritual truths and faith in Christ remain central.
  • A: “There is no conflict with science. Booyah. That's so good. Now, I 100% agree with what you just said there.”
  • Upcoming episodes will explore historical debates among LDS leaders, placing them in broader Christian context.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "If evolution is true, the church is false.” — Joseph Fielding Smith ([43:53])
• “Evolution is true so far as it means development and progress and advancement in all the works of God.” — James E. Talmage ([51:04])
• “The Church has no official position on the theory of evolution... Organic evolution or changes to species inherited traits over time is a matter for scientific study.” — 2016 New Era ([72:36])
• "There’s not really a conflict with science." — Casey ([79:56])
• "You can be a religion professor and believe in evolution and you can be a biologist and believe that mankind was created in the image of God and all of that is compatible." — Scott ([83:55])
• “When God makes the prophet, he does not unmake the man...” — Scott quoting President McKay ([10:35])

Summary Table: Four “Reliable Sources” on Doctrine & Evolution

| Source Type | What It Says about Evolution | Notable Example(s) | |----------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|---------------------------| | Harmonized Scriptural Canon | Is ambiguous/agnostic on the mechanism; strongly affirms divine creation & purpose | Genesis/Moses/Abraham; 2 Nephi 2; D&C 77 | | Cumulative Teachings of Leaders | No consensus; strong views on both sides | Joseph Fielding Smith (against), Talmage/Widtsoe/Richards (open) | | Official First Presidency Statements | Purposeful, spiritual and physical creation, human in God’s image; noncommittal on mechanism | “Origin of Man” (1909), “Mormon View of Evolution” (1925) | | Correlated Church Publications | No official position; recognizes value of scientific inquiry; reaffirms spiritual doctrines | 2016 New Era Q&A, recent manuals |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] Opening Question: Official position of the Church on evolution?
• [12:29] Defining “evolution” (ChatGPT definition)
• [16:52] Measuring doctrinal confidence and official teaching
• [17:31 – 41:40] Scriptural analysis and challenges (Genesis, Moses, Abraham, 2 Nephi, D&C 77)
• [41:57 – 57:53] Church leaders’ views: against, open to, or ambiguous on evolution
• [57:53 – 71:58] First Presidency statements (1909/1925)
• [72:36] 2016 New Era/Q&A: Official modern statement
• [79:56] Synthesis and conclusion: science and faith not in conflict

Closing Thoughts

Scott and Casey argue that Latter-day Saints are invited to hold diverse views on evolution within the bounds of revealed doctrine: faith in a purposeful, divine creation, and the spiritual identity of humanity. The “how” of creation—including evolution as a possible mechanism—remains open for inquiry, study, and faithful exploration.

"The church has no official position on evolution... There is no conflict with science. Booyah." — Scott ([80:39])

Next episode: A historical exploration of debates over evolution among Latter-day Saints, with stories of LDS scientists, apostles, and the broader Christian context.