Loading summary
Transcript331 lines
- [00:09]
A
Well, hello and welcome to a new holiday special episode of the City Journal podcast. My name is Rafael Mangual. I am your host. So happy to be joined by my wonderful colleagues. We got Daniel DiMartino, Josh Appel. Welcome to the show, gentlemen.
- [00:24]
B
Oh, ho, ho.
- [00:25]
A
I like the hat. I like the hat, man. It is Christmas in New York. I love. I love this season. It is my favorite time of the year. Christmas is my favorite holiday, and New York, I think, does it better than any other city in the world. Anybody care to disagree?
- [00:38]
B
No, I think it's special. I'm very happy to be living here around Christmas time especially, actually.
- [00:44]
A
What's your favorite thing about Christmas in New York?
- [00:46]
B
I mean, it's just that when you're a kid, you watch so many movies that are about Christmas in New York City that I think that that's what makes it special. Then when you live in it.
- [00:56]
A
Right.
- [00:56]
B
And I think we shouldn't lose sight of that. You know, you get used to it. And I go to the Rockefeller Center. That's beautiful. The Central Park Park. See the snow. We're getting a very cold Christmas this year.
- [01:07]
A
We're gonna get snow this weekend.
- [01:08]
B
Yeah, so. So, yeah, that's why I think it's special.
- [01:11]
A
I love it. Yeah, I'm. I'm a big fan of the windows.
- [01:13]
C
Yeah, that's so. I used to, growing up, my mother would always take us to the Macy's windows and it's just the best. And then, you know, my sisters would always, for the Gen Zers out there, take us to Juicy Couture to get the charm bracelets. Always a good time. But yeah, then Central Park, Rockefeller Center. There's. It's just iconic, especially when there's snow. It's the best msg. Also the Saks Fifth.
- [01:36]
A
I was going to say the Saks windows. They do it right. Although it's gotten so crowded now, you can't even really enjoy it unless you're like going off hours because it's like the sidewalk is packed and you got NYPD directing traffic out there. But you mentioned Macy's. I don't know if you guys heard, but actually there was a. A Christmas shopper tourist, I think, from California who got stabbed in the 34th Street Herald Square Macy's yesterday by a homeless woman in the bathroom. I mean, imag. You're checking things off your list. You go to hit the head and some nutjob jumps out and sticks a knife in you several times.
- [02:09]
B
Well, there you go. Policy issues affect Christmas, too.
- [02:12]
A
That's right. That's right. I'm sure she's going to end up on Santa's naughty list. But, yeah, I mean, I want to talk a little bit about just holiday traditions. I mean, one of the gift I'm giving to myself this week for Christmas is that we're not going to talk too much about policy and.
- [02:28]
B
Oh, really?
- [02:28]
A
So I think we're going to take a little break.
- [02:30]
B
That's a gift for you, for yourself. You know, it's all.
- [02:32]
A
I think everyone's. Once in a while, you need a mental break from all of that stuff. So I wanted to chat with you guys about just what your traditions are. I mean, for my part, I grew up in New York, so Christmas in New York, again, very iconic. I've gotten a chance to kind of see all of the things, but the one thing that was out of reach for a long time for me was the Christmas Spectacular at Radio City, the Rockettes. And that was something I would always see the advertisements, I would see the commercials for it as a kid, and we didn't have a lot of money. It wasn't until I think I was like 11 years old when we. We went for the first time. And it was. I mean, you know, at that point, I'm not even, you know, I'm beyond believing in sand. I was like, 11, though, you know, beyond believing in sand and all that stuff. And we'll talk about that, too, you know, but it was like. It was. It was incredible. And, you know, my family and I, we went a few times, and it was one of those things where it was like an experience where I said, I'm doing this for my family no matter what. Like, when I grow up, the Christmas Spectacular will be a thing. And when my wife and I met our first Christmas, and every Christmas since, we have gone to the Christmas Spectacular and now we take our kids and it is amazing every year. So it's always her birthday.
- [03:45]
B
I've actually never been to one.
- [03:47]
A
Oh, my God. There's these, like, cool dance numbers and these little skits and, you know, they bring the animals out and I mean, it's fun.
- [03:54]
B
Do the whole show, like every day, several times a day.
- [03:56]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:57]
A
There's multiple shows a day. Every day the Rockettes come out and, you know, dance and do the iconic leg kick, and it's amazing. And it's my favorite thing. I look forward to it every year. And just watching, you know, the kids faces light up and Santa comes out and, you know, the elves do their little dance.
- [04:14]
B
It's just so you Say it's mostly like families with kids because there's like a Santa thing.
- [04:18]
A
Yeah, it's families with kids. Also a lot of dates, you know, so especially the later shows, you get a lot of couples. And that was like, you know, that was a thing for us. So my wife and I, before we had kids, we would always go out to a nice dinner and then go see the late show and then, you know, go home. It was always a nice night. So that has become a solid mongual family tradition that I absolutely love. Usually before or after the show, we'll take the kids to a Rockefeller center and see the tree and some of the windows and you know that and the patron mall Santa. We can't, we can't skip that.
- [04:50]
B
Which one did you, which Santa do you take the picture for your kids to?
- [04:54]
A
What do you mean, which mall?
- [04:55]
B
Which mall? Right.
- [04:56]
A
Oh, Roosevelt Field, Long Island.
- [04:58]
B
Oh, okay.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah, yeah. So mall Santa pictures. We have one for every year with the kids and that's pretty cool. They get to, you know, tell them what they want and he admonishes them to be good boys and girls and it's the best. It's the best. What about you?
- [05:15]
B
So for me, Christmas traditions are mostly around food.
- [05:18]
A
Sure.
- [05:19]
B
So while in Venezuela, you obviously, where I grew up, we make something called ayakas around Christmas. It's kind of like the Venezuelan tamal. If you've had Mexican tamales, this is like plantain leaf around, it has almonds inside. It has. Yeah, well, every Venezuelan does it a little differently. You know, it has pulled chicken. You know, there's different recipes, but it's made with corn essentially. And it's why it's delicious. And it's very laborious to make. So it has to be a family affair. I'm making with my mom this year. And then we also make an Italian sweet called cajonetti, which is from my grandparents region. And it's made with chestnut and chocolate.
- [05:59]
A
That sounds.
- [06:00]
B
That's the filling and it's fried and it's. Wow.
- [06:03]
A
Wait, fried chestnuts and chocolate? You gotta sign me up, Sign me up.
- [06:07]
B
I'll bring to the office, I'll bring my name. We're gonna make a lot. You can freeze them too, and then you can like reheat them in the microwave.
- [06:13]
A
Tell me when I'm breaking my diet.
- [06:15]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's so good.
- [06:17]
A
So our, our little food tradition that there's something. I'm sure you guys have heard of it. I mean, well, you for sure, but Coquito, have you heard of that?
- [06:24]
B
No, actually, maybe I have chocolate.
- [06:28]
A
No, it's like, it's basically like a Caribbean take on eggnog. It's. It's like a rum based, creamy, cinnamon, sweet, vanilla like drink. Yeah. But it's like, it's thinner than a milkshake. But, you know, like the alcohol is. It comes off and it's like. So my mom will make, you know, she starts like poncha crema kind of.
- [06:50]
B
Yeah.
- [06:50]
C
Do you guys have like a holiday party and then you like serve it?
- [06:54]
B
No.
- [06:54]
A
So what my mom will do is she'll start saving like, you know, wine bottles and like, you know, empty liquor bottles, like leading up to Christmas. And then she will make batches for everyone and that, you know, she gives it to, you know, all the family members and friends and it's, you know, it's like what we are drinking around the tree on Christmas and stuff. So that's, that's, that's our one like Christmas specific thing that we consume. We always have a nice dinner, but, you know. Okay, yeah, what about.
- [07:23]
C
So I don't celebrate Christmas as a holiday. I'm Jewish, so I do celebrate Hanukkah. Yeah, Hanukkah. However you want to pronounce it or spell it. There's like 20 different ways.
- [07:33]
B
I never know when it's people.
- [07:38]
C
In Hebrew it's a. It's a Hanukkah. It's a. A Chet in Hebrew. So it is a ch.
- [07:43]
B
Then why do people use the C?
- [07:45]
C
That's what ch. The ch would be the phlegmy Jewish sound.
- [07:49]
B
Oh, really?
- [07:50]
C
Yeah, yeah, Ch. So I think in like Venezuela you would say like ch, right, for ch. But yes, we pronounce it as a. Oh, there really isn't like an English. So sometimes they have an H with a dot under it. That's like another way. So I. But I think like most Jewish Americans and especially like Jewish New Yorkers, there's like this hybrid of. On the one hand you're celebrating Hanukkah includes all of its very beautiful family get togethers and we have our own, you know, ethnic foods, certain European delicacies.
- [08:21]
B
Like what?
- [08:22]
C
So there's something called the latkes, which are just fried potatoes. The joke is that, you know, the story of Chanukah is that the Greeks tried to destroy the Jewish people's culture and impose their Greek culture on the Jewish people, which included physical fitness and, you know, this beautiful Adonis culture. So the Jews, to get back to the Greeks, go the exact oppos opposite. Fried. Fried potatoes and jelly Donuts. And it's a lot of. It's very good, but it, you know, you feel very gross by the end. There's some people who have a. I would call it a tradition. It's more of just like a social media trend to like, have a donut per as many candles as you. Like that.
- [08:59]
A
Got it.
- [09:00]
C
So, you know, you end up having like 80 donuts if you really keep with that. But then also, we. We do.
- [09:05]
A
I may have to convert.
- [09:06]
C
Yeah. Honestly, it's a. And it's very family oriented. So, like, you know, this coming week, we have like three or four different family get togethers with us. Especially now I'm married, so, you know, multiplies out of get together, for sure. Great. But also, as you know, I grew up in Queens. I lived here my whole life.
- [09:24]
A
Where in Queens do you grow up? Remind me.
- [09:25]
C
I grew up in Jamaica states. Got it. And now I live in Bayside in Queens. And so it's not so far on subway. And so again, a great. Just, you know, family holiday tradition was always. First of all, we used to go to Thanksgiving Day parade as often as we could. My grandpa would take like the Macy's one. Yeah, Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. That was awesome. It also always included, you know, watching all these holiday movies.
- [09:46]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:47]
C
And holiday themed TV shows from Seinfeld and Friends and, you know, just this iconic music.
- [09:53]
B
You grew up watching Friends too?
- [09:54]
C
Oh, sure. Yeah. That was the best.
- [09:55]
B
I grew up watching Friends in Venezuela.
- [09:57]
C
The Friends and Christmas episodes were, like, so fun. And then we would come to the city and we'd see the twinkling lights and go to Broadway and Times Square and the Eminem store and the red steps, and we'd usually go to dinner and a show. And the best, though, ever was my mom's birthday is in December. December. And one year, for her present, my. My dad got us tickets to see Billy Joel at the Garden over Christmas. And that was like all the New York center sort of culture coming together, and it was just amazing. So that was a great. I can't call it a tradition, but definitely a memory that sticks out to me.
- [10:32]
A
You mentioned Seinfeld, which is, I think, the best show ever made.
- [10:36]
C
Explains all of life, hands down, explains all of life.
- [10:41]
B
But I have been to the Seinfeld restaurant because it's near Columbia.
- [10:44]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:45]
A
Right on Broadway.
- [10:46]
B
It's actually not pricey or anything.
- [10:47]
C
It's like, oh, just like a regular diner. I was gonna say that when you were talking about taking your kids to meet Santa. I hope you didn't have, like, this communist.
- [10:56]
A
Christmas episode where Kramer becomes a mall Santa for that episode with his. With his friend, and Elaine starts dating a communist. And so the communists start trying to convert Kramer. You're working all hours and, you know, are you getting a break And. And what happens if your face gets itchy from the fake beard? Are they going to be there with a health plan and, you know, ends up getting Kramer fired?
- [11:22]
B
Oh, wow.
- [11:22]
A
Because that.
- [11:23]
B
Because that never ends well.
- [11:25]
C
Yeah, the kids, like, get out of here, you zombies. Which shows, by the way, like, the cultural. It was even instilled in the kids back then.
- [11:33]
A
Oh, yeah. Still coming off the Cold War. Right?
- [11:38]
B
When was this?
- [11:39]
A
When what was, say, like 93, 94. Absolutely.
- [11:43]
B
Everybody remembered that.
- [11:45]
A
Absolutely.
- [11:45]
B
You said the concert. Billy Joel. I'm actually taking my mom to see Andrea Bocelli. Christmas for Gardens.
- [11:53]
A
You're a good son. That's. Thank you. Thank you, son.
- [11:56]
C
I feel that's a good.
- [11:57]
B
Andrell is, like, going everywhere. He just, like, did the concert in the White House for Trump, like, twice. Yeah, like. Like Trump is obsessed with him. Melee gave him an award in Argentina. Bocelli. No, he's amazing. And I bet he's going to sing a lot of Christmas songs.
- [12:11]
C
Yeah.
- [12:12]
B
Yeah.
- [12:13]
A
That sounds amazing. All right, well, we started talking about Christmas TV shows, but I want to talk a little bit about Christmas movies. I mean, one classic that everyone brings up this time of year is It's a Wonderful Life, which is a beautiful story. I rewatched the movie yesterday, and, well, what my kids allowed me to watch of it because it was, like, between dinner time, bath time, bedtime, and all that stuff. But, I mean, it is. It's a beautiful story. It's a sort of like, you know, quintessential American tale. This beautiful, small, quaint town comes together to back Mr. Bailey, and, you know, you've got the villain, Mr. Potter. But I found myself this time around expressing a lot more sympathy for Mr. Potter.
- [12:59]
C
Mr. Bailey would have voted for Mom, Daddy.
- [13:03]
A
Am I the only one who called?
- [13:05]
B
This is like in the Simpsons. The older you become, the more you sympathize with Mr. Bo.
- [13:10]
A
This is exactly like that. Yeah. I mean, look, don't get me wrong.
- [13:13]
C
He does bad things. He steals the money.
- [13:15]
A
Yeah, he's a terrible person and all.
- [13:17]
C
That, but his business, Know how. Is probably the correct method for running an entire city in town. Right.
- [13:24]
A
Well, the. You know, the whole movie is premised on this idea that, like, you know, Mr. Bailey is convinced to. To, you know, give out money Reinvigorate his.
- [13:33]
C
His.
- [13:34]
A
His sense for life by seeing what life would have been without him had he never been born. Right? And it's like, okay, all of these things don't happen. The town's completely different. But I just found myself thinking, like, well, what happens if Mr. Potter pulled all this money and, you know, Atlas just shrugged on this one and, you know, like, I mean, those investments matter.
- [13:51]
B
Right?
- [13:52]
A
I mean, look, look, I'm not defending the villain, okay? Police, but, like, you know.
- [13:57]
C
Right. No, they. And they try to do that in the movie by portraying, like, this very, like, grimy city.
- [14:02]
A
Right.
- [14:02]
C
If. If George Bailey wouldn't have been there and it was Pottersville, it would have been, like, full of clubs and, like, a legal sort of activity. But, like. But that, again, that is clearly a caricature of a character that, you know, usually doesn't. It doesn't have to be that way that just because you have capitalism, it will extend into that sort of township.
- [14:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's an argument. I mean, it's why you need, like, to have some moral standards rather than just like, total free. Right. Because then you do get the commercialization of the vices in a very excessive way.
- [14:33]
A
Right. I mean, and that's the thing about, like, you know, that what's beautiful about that movie is that the salvation comes from the core of his family and his immediate community. And none of that is, you know, incongruous with capitalism, with free markets, of course, not with, you know, not even with individualism. Right. Like, I think a lot of people who watch that movie see it as a, you know, kind of a critique of individualism and, you know, this sort of selfish desire to, you know, leave and be adventurous and pursue your. But it's like you can do that within the context of having a family, of developing community, and that's not just possible, but I think necessary. This quote has been misattributed more than I can remember, so I won't even try and attribute it to the right person. But it's this idea that freedom only works for immoral people. And I think there's actually truth to that.
- [15:33]
B
So I was reading Santesimus Annus by Pope John Paul II. That was the encyclical, actually, funnily. It was published May 1, Workers Day, 1991, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. And it was on the 100th anniversary of the encyclical rerun Novarum of Pope Leo 13, from which the current pope received his name, which is the Catholic social teaching meaning the teaching of the Catholic Church around the economy, capitalism, socialism. What John Paul II says is that. And I actually just posted this on my social media, the Marxist solution has failed like that. Pope John Paul II declares that. But then he. Yes, but then he said, well, I mean, Polish too, you know, he's very right. He saw it. But he talks about, you know, if capitalism is. If all the capitalism just means is the free economy, free trade and these, you know, the ability to start businesses and own private property, then yes, that is the solution to our material needs.
- [16:36]
A
Right?
- [16:37]
B
But if what capitalism is, is, you know, totally no restrictions at all, like we're gonna just legalize prostitution and, you know, people are gonna be able to freely trade their bodies or whatever. That is not the solution. And I think that that's exactly the division here. We want private property, we want free markets, but we also want some moral guidance.
- [16:56]
C
I mean, John Adams, one of my favorite quotes by the American Founding Fathers, he said, this will only work, this experiment, this social contract, this declaration is wholly for a religious people. And I don't think he necessarily meant you have to be like a certain type of religion. What he was saying is that the Declaration of Independence and the social contract, based on the ideas of the Enlightenment across Europe, it's only the inability for the government to impinge on your rights, but it doesn't tell you how to live a moral and proper life. It's not a guidance. And that thing of the positive could only be added by this other framework of the church or the synagogue or whatever virtue you have in your life. And once you remove that, I think we are at a loss. And I think going back to It's a Wonderful Life, I think nowadays the culture is that there's this trade off between maximizing your personal happiness and living for others. And that's why there's marriage decline and birth rate is fertility down.
- [17:59]
B
Excessive individualism.
- [18:00]
C
And people are like, why would I have a kid? I want to be a dink. Double income, no kids, live my life. And I think what the message is is that's George Baylor, right? He wants to travel and he actually does. You know, he's not just trying to live frivolously for fun. He wants to travel and become educated, which is some sort of higher calling. But still the movie is saying to him, all those things that you thought were holding you back, whether it was caring for your father, your brother, your business, this small town, those are the things that they weren't holding you back at all. They were what they gave you that wonderful life. And as his brother said, you're the richest just.
- [18:35]
A
Exactly. That's the best part. Because his brother in a lot of ways lives the life that he always wanted to live and yet comes back envying the one who feels like he lost out. And that's the thing. It's like, you know, those things are not incompatible. Right. You can pursue your own betterment, you can pursue your ambitions within the context of these other things that bind and ground you.
- [18:58]
C
Right?
- [18:58]
A
Like a family is an institution that does place restrictions on you in terms of, you know, like you're no longer living just for yourself. You have to subordinate your interests to those of the people in your family. But it is in your self interest to do that in the long term because that is the only way that you get to experience the love and amazing moments. And it's like I think about, you know, my life and it's like the, the best moments in my life have nothing to do with an accomplishment like, you know, publishing something or getting to testify before Congress or, you know, getting some kind of win at work, you know, getting to travel, buying something nice for myself. Like none of that will ever come close to like the happiness I get at, you know, 6:45am when my daughter crawls into bed and wakes me up. And it's like, it's amazing that like.
- [19:47]
B
You know, except when he said like 1am.
- [19:51]
C
I'm a newtime parent actually.
- [19:53]
A
Yeah.
- [19:53]
C
And I could say like, you will lose sleep, you will not be able to watch and binge watch your TV shows.
- [20:00]
A
Right.
- [20:00]
C
Will not, not be able to buy the same Starbucks that you may have and you may not got to travel for a few years as, as you wanted to. But there is nothing like seeing the smile looking back at you when, you know, whatever time. And it doesn't, it just, I, I think it's, and, and people think it's a trade off and they, and they, and why would you sacrifice like these great things you have going for you? And it's like, it's not a sacrifice.
- [20:24]
B
Well, it's because it's also, I think when we talk about individualism, we talk about all our rights and we forget about all our duties.
- [20:32]
C
Right?
- [20:33]
B
Yeah, well, that's the right. I think people want rights without duties. That's where the problem comes from.
- [20:40]
C
Not to talk about policy, but there has been an expansion of government in the promises that they, you know, that's right. Because as we want to do less, we also want to receive more.
- [20:51]
A
Right.
- [20:52]
C
It's creating this unsustainable I think ultimately.
- [20:55]
A
Like, even though I have very, like, a very deep libertarian streak, you know, I think that's the thing that always made me identify as conservative more was that, like, I subscribe to this idea that ultimately, like, yeah, there are certain duties that you should want to incur because those duties make your life richer. I mean, I think this is one of the reasons why someone like Jordan Peterson really spoke to such a large audience and resonated.
- [21:17]
C
Right.
- [21:18]
A
Yeah. I mean, there is. There is a power and meaning that comes with the adoption of responsibilities that force you to subordinate your immediate desires for something better. And that works on the individual level, too.
- [21:32]
B
I mean, we've seen that so far. I've only talking even about just individual level. Not even on the policy.
- [21:37]
C
Right.
- [21:38]
A
No, but I'm saying, like, you know, in the individual level, but also at the family level. But, like, at the individual level. Right. Like, if you think about the things that, you know, are enjoyable or the moments where you feel a sense of triumph. Right. It'll usually surround things like work, educational attainment. All of those things require sacrifice of something. All of those things require diligence, require you to push through some sense of discomfort. Right. Physical fitness. Right. Is. Is a prime example of that. Right. Like, you can't really achieve the body that you like seeing in the mirror without, you know, going through terrible workouts and, you know, moderating your diet, eating enough protein, not eating, you know, too many calories or donuts, which, I mean, I was salivating as you were speaking earlier, you know, so. So, yeah, I mean, that to me is like one of those messages that. That I think is. Is probably the right one to take away from a movie like It's a Wonderful Life. But I was watching it. I couldn't help the capitalist and being like, wait a minute, I think Mr. Potter's getting a bit of a bad rap. It's not, you know, you can be a good capitalist and still be ruthless and cold in terms of how you do your business without.
- [22:47]
B
Most capitalists aren't that ruthless and cold as they're portrayed in the movies.
- [22:51]
C
Yeah.
- [22:51]
A
I mean, that's actually been one of the things that I love about this world that we're in because, you know, a lot of the organizations in Conservative Inc. Whatever you want to call it, rely on philanthropic support. And it just blows my mind constantly how you have so many people who. Who could very easily check out and not pay a price for it. They have everything that they need to insulate themselves from the downsides of bad Policy to insulate themselves from.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah. All of America's wealthy people who go live in a tax haven.
- [23:21]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And yet they don't, because they care. They suck.
- [23:25]
B
They donate. Not just. I mean, to conservative causes. This is really a tiny fraction of all donations. Nothing less than 1%, perhaps. We're talking really. It's health stuff, it's education, nonprofits helping people out of prison, crime, everything. Yeah.
- [23:40]
A
What I'm saying is that, like, you know, there are. The reality is that the kind of person who achieves that level of financial success is generally of the temperament that usually comes with or comports with an incredible amount of generosity. I mean, these people are parting with not just their treasure, but their time and their energy and their effort in order to do what they think is going to make the world a better place, even though they're not getting anything in return for it. And that's actually much more typical of someone who's in the position of a Mr. Potter than what was portrayed in that movie. And that is my only gripe. That is the only.
- [24:18]
B
In. And this is where a lot of socialists really get to their belief that the rich should give everything that they have is a principle called the universal destination of goods, which is that eventually, if you're really wealthy, you should really just donate everything you have, or you don't need it that much. So. So the government should take it from you. That's their conclusion. When in reality, what the principle is about is that if you got to build the wealth that you did legitimately. I'm not talking about stealing.
- [24:47]
A
Right.
- [24:47]
B
If you are like Maduro in Venezuela, you didn't build your wealth. Yes, we need to take it back from you. But if you are Bill Gates. Right. And I'm not saying. I'm not a fan of Bill Gates personally, of how he uses his wealth, but he built it because he's really smart. He knows how to do it. Therefore, you know what? I think he's actually more intelligent in how to spend it and donate it. And the US Federal government and some bureaucrats in an office in the Department of Whatever. Yeah. No, and that's the point, right? That the rich, because they got there legitimately, they're actually in a very good position to donate. I think about Michael Dell recently, what he did. What an amazing thing. He's donating $6.25 billion.
- [25:27]
A
Amazing.
- [25:28]
B
To America's children under 10 years old so that they can have an investment account so that when they're 18, they all have thousands of dollars, you know, tax Deferred that they can use to buy a home, to go to Colle College to do. Like, this is out of the generosity of having built an amazing enterprise from which we bought his computers. I had a Dell computer for many years.
- [25:48]
A
I was always a Mac guy.
- [25:49]
C
But yeah, sorry to hear that.
- [25:51]
B
I'm a Dell fan and I'm not an. It's okay, it's okay. But the point is, you know, this is another great example of such principle.
- [26:01]
A
Yeah, No, I think that's right. So. All right, well, we talked about It's a Wonderful Life. But what. But I'm curious as to what your other favorite Christmas time movies are. I personally, I don't think it gets better than Home Alone 2. Lost in New York. That. I mean, if you're talking about Christmas in New York, Home Alone 1 is fantastic. Don't get me wrong. Absolutely crucial. Watch it. It makes Home Alone 2 better. But I mean, Lost in New York in the Plaza Hotel, Donald Trump making a cameo. Although I think he's actually been erased from erasure. That is erasure.
- [26:34]
B
But maybe he wasn't erasing all of them. Maybe just.
- [26:37]
A
Yeah, I think on some of the streaming platforms. But it's just like, you know what? Like, actually that guy saved the Plaza Hotel.
- [26:42]
C
Yeah. Also, what's the. Like, why? Just because, like, what's the justification for.
- [26:48]
A
Yeah.
- [26:49]
C
That bad. Like, I'm a lot worse people. I mean, a lot worse people who have produced a directed. Correct.
- [26:55]
B
Yeah, that's for sure.
- [26:58]
A
That's right.
- [26:59]
C
So, yeah, yeah, that's. But yeah, Home Loan too. Because I think they also go to FAO Schwartz.
- [27:04]
A
They go to FAO Schwartz.
- [27:05]
C
Part of it.
- [27:06]
B
Which.
- [27:06]
C
That was also an iconic. It's kind of sad that they moved. Yeah, it closed, but now they're reopened. But it's much smaller than it used to be.
- [27:13]
A
It is, it is.
- [27:14]
C
I remember the F stores from like, Big. That.
- [27:16]
A
Wasn't that where the Apple Store is now?
- [27:19]
C
I think so.
- [27:20]
A
Yeah. That used to be F8. It was like a massive, massive toy store. It was like, you could go.
- [27:26]
B
And the toy store I really like is the LEGO one.
- [27:28]
C
That's a good one. But they would just let you play with like. Yeah, it's a kid. It was a kid's wonderland. You would just go play. And they had this massive piano that was like very iconic where you like had to jump on the notes in order to, like play the sounds.
- [27:41]
A
But I don't ever think we ever even went in there because most of that stuff was too expensive.
- [27:45]
C
But we used to buy anything. But they let you.
- [27:48]
A
Right.
- [27:48]
C
It's great marketing.
- [27:49]
A
We used to go.
- [27:50]
C
I mean, I guess that's why they closed.
- [27:51]
A
Do you remember the Toys R Us in Times Square? Roller coaster inside. That was, like, one of my favorite things to do as a kid.
- [28:01]
C
Yeah.
- [28:01]
A
That was my favorite thing.
- [28:02]
C
So my other. It. But underratedly. I don't know if it's underrated. Elf is. Elf is great. Will Ferrell at his best. Yes. No, that movie is hysterical iconic. Also, Central park making a great appearance in the third act of that movie, so.
- [28:16]
A
And Central park has really made a comeback, too. I mean, Home Alone 2. Right. One of the, like, one of the iconic lines there where you had the birthday.
- [28:24]
C
Right.
- [28:24]
B
Well, Home Alone, too. They're in Central Park a lot of the time, Right.
- [28:26]
A
Well, he's running away from them at one point, and he gets away in Central park, and Harry and Marvin, like, turn to each other, go, ah. He'll be dead in a couple hours. Like, even grown men walk into the park and don't come out at night. Yeah.
- [28:40]
B
Like back in the day.
- [28:41]
A
Right. But, like, back in the day, that was true. And, like, New York has changed so much, and it's like, I go back and I watch those movies, and I just appreciate how much better we have it. And it makes me want to strangle all the people who have this, like, stupid sense of, like, pride and the grittiness of New York. And it's like I'm now a real New Yorker because, like, you know, a.
- [29:01]
B
Homeless person of the third world.
- [29:04]
A
Yeah.
- [29:05]
B
Oh, I love the street market of, like, the, you know, the illegal immigrants selling illegal, you know, goods in towels in the middle of the sidewalk.
- [29:15]
A
I mean, look how charming. Trademark infringement.
- [29:17]
C
It's like.
- [29:18]
A
No.
- [29:18]
B
And, like, drugs and, like, they got all of it.
- [29:21]
C
Yeah.
- [29:21]
B
I think it's terrible, but I prefer it. Home Alone One, Home Alone One. And the reason is actually really funny. So, you know, it's in his home. It's like Home Invaders. One of the fears we always had in Venezuela because of crime was, like, a home invasion. So I felt really identical.
- [29:38]
C
Did you ever, like, heat up the doorknob ever?
- [29:41]
B
No, no, not that, but. But I suddenly had a lot of nightmares of information growing up.
- [29:47]
C
Wow. No, socialism's amazing.
- [29:49]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [29:49]
C
You don't know. Yeah, yeah. Just don't know.
- [29:51]
B
People don't know how we have it. For you guys, it was a movie. For us, it was a documentary. It was a documentary when I was a little baby, actually. Oh. They took everything. They took our Cars they took, even the baby formula my mom had. For me, this was in the year early 2000s.
- [30:10]
A
Well, look, that was a reality for us here in New York in the 90s. I mean, like, I remember it was like 1991. 92. My neighbors used to babysit us. And so she was a teenager at the time, and she lived with her two parents who lived upstairs from us. And so my parents were going out to dinner and they were getting ready to drop us off, but we were all coming back together, both families from wherever it was that we were going. So my parents walked us up. Her parents opened the door to the apartment. I remember her mom immediately breaking down. It was like right before Christmas, too. Her mom immediately breaking down. And then I remember my dad pulling his gun out. Cause he was a cop. And went in and cleared the apartment and made sure no one else was in there. And I just remember being confused, like, what's going on? Cause there's just this long hallway in front of the door. But I guess she could immediately see that the place, what was left, had been ransacked. But they took the tv, the vcr, they took a bunch of drugs, jewelry, all the cash that was in the house, and it was going to completely ruin their Christmas.
- [31:10]
C
Yeah, that would do it.
- [31:11]
A
But. But, yeah. So, I mean, look, that. You know, that was everywhere. But, like, I mean, what a comeback, right? I mean, New York is by comparison, amazing.
- [31:22]
C
Yeah. Crime's at its slowest, they said.
- [31:23]
A
Well, at least shootings and homicides, for sure. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the other categories, CVS robberies are.
- [31:29]
B
You know what's interesting? In Caracas, people. People prefer to live in buildings over houses because of the crime.
- [31:35]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:36]
B
Home invasions were much easier in a house rather than. Except for there. There was this one robber that became famous because he climbed over buildings.
- [31:45]
A
Spider Man.
- [31:45]
B
That was his nicknames. He was Spider Man. That's how he got into apartments.
- [31:50]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [31:50]
C
Spider Man's from Queens. And that's where he stays.
- [31:53]
A
That's right.
- [31:56]
C
No, he went to Bronx.
- [31:58]
B
Is.
- [31:58]
A
No, no.
- [32:00]
C
Maybe in the movie.
- [32:01]
A
In the movie, but no, the original comic.
- [32:03]
C
He's his legacy queen that we have the Mets and Spider Man. And right now, I don't want to.
- [32:09]
B
Talk about the Mets.
- [32:10]
A
Should you ever want to talk about the Met.
- [32:12]
B
Didn't he go to college at Columbia? No, that was.
- [32:15]
A
I think that was just.
- [32:16]
B
That was just one of the scenes.
- [32:16]
C
I mean, someone from Queens could theoretically go to Columbia. That's okay.
- [32:21]
B
Is that what you think?
- [32:25]
A
All right, so there's One other sort of Christmas issue that I want to talk about because I see this on X trending every year. It happened again and it bugs me, which is you have these grinches out there who say that they don't think kids should believe in Santa Claus and they encourage people to ruin it for the kids.
- [32:46]
B
Oh, well, some did do it in one call.
- [32:49]
A
He did. That was really funny, though.
- [32:52]
B
At your age. It's marginal. That is another Trump iconic moment.
- [32:57]
A
That is a Trump.
- [32:58]
B
So there's. There's actually people who think kids shouldn't believe in things.
- [33:02]
A
Well, they say it's lying to kids, that you're lying to kids and psychologically damaging and that it's. That's true. We do lie to kids all the time, usually like white lies. But it's like, actually, I don't think that there's any basis for this claim that it's a, a lie or B, that it's psychologically dam damaging. I mean, the way that I have seen it is essentially what parents are doing is that they're engaging in a long, elaborate, and incredibly magical game of pretend with their kids. And it only lasts a few years. And I think it actually sets the stage for incredible lessons about, like, the power of metaphor and. Right. Like, it's like, yeah, Santa Claus isn't real insofar as, like, there's not a big fat man with a white beard who flies reindeer around the world in one night and delivers presents. Right. But they're careful.
- [33:49]
B
There are kids watching.
- [33:51]
A
But there are people, right, I. E. Your parents, who are keeping track of whether you're naughty or nice and who are rewarding you or penalizing you on that basis.
- [34:03]
C
Right. It's very godly.
- [34:05]
A
I mean, it's like, you know.
- [34:06]
B
Well, I mean, this has a religious origin. When I was a kid in my. So we didn't believe in Santa. I mean, most kids didn't. We believed in baby Jesus.
- [34:14]
A
Right.
- [34:15]
B
I actually think it's a better thing to tell kids just because, I mean, Jesus is real.
- [34:20]
C
Chose the wrong hat.
- [34:21]
B
So Santa confirmed from St. Nicholas, a Catholic saint.
- [34:28]
C
I was reading about him, talking about he makes an appearance in Narnia. By the way, St. Nicholas.
- [34:34]
B
Narnia has a lot of Christian references.
- [34:35]
C
Well, it's a Christian. And C.S. lewis is an amazing.
- [34:39]
A
I must confess, I've never read the Chronicles.
- [34:42]
C
I have to read it. And there's the great. It's a movie.
- [34:44]
A
Yeah.
- [34:45]
C
Pretty good. The first one, at least. And he's like, the turning point that brings. That's why he's the symbol of wonder and joy. And like you said, it's pretend. All kids pretend. They build forts, they slay drones, dragons with the hanger. And, like. And they played pirates and cowboys.
- [35:01]
B
And kids do all these things. Right. Even though they're not real. So I think it's silly to not believe.
- [35:05]
C
It's like, an adultification of childhood. And, like, that's just not the point.
- [35:10]
B
It's a childification of adulthood. Actually, this is exactly what the life is about. Now, you say that because they want kids to be able to change their gender. Oh, but don't believe insanity. It's like, we're switching roles, and adults, stay with your parents. Don't grow up.
- [35:26]
A
It's like, don't. Don't lie to your kids. But use their preferred pronouns.
- [35:29]
C
Exactly.
- [35:30]
A
It's like the preferred pronouns of their parents.
- [35:32]
C
Actually, I don't think it's like, oh, I don't think people really believe, like, oh, you're lying to your kids. I think they believe. Like, I want my kids to be sophisticated and.
- [35:40]
A
Yeah, it's. It's like, you know what?
- [35:42]
C
Actually, even such trivial nonsense.
- [35:44]
A
Well, what's going to end up happening is your kid's going to be more traumatized.
- [35:49]
C
Like, they're going to be the kid who doesn't have any fun, has no friends. Friends. I hate to be hard. I think that's the reality. Like, you're gonna be this kid who's like, well, actually.
- [35:58]
A
Right.
- [35:59]
C
You know, products and, you know, certain light patterns. Like, no, it's a rainbow, and you should love it. And it's enjoyable to see these great works of art and nature and beauty. And, like, that's a good thing. And especially when you're a kid, that's when you appreciate those things most. When you're unencumbered by the, you know, the. The trial.
- [36:18]
B
I've never believed anybody. I've never met anybody traumatized by having believed in Santa or whatever.
- [36:24]
A
I have met people who were raised, like, to not believe in Santa as kids and, like, told me, like, I feel like I missed out.
- [36:30]
C
Yeah. Like, what, you're gonna say the two fairies, right?
- [36:33]
A
Yeah. But it's like, again, it's like, the whole point is it's. It's a magical game of pretend that, like, it's a metaphor, it's fun. It's. You know, it primes them for. Or the ability to understand the power of faith in something which I think is actually beautiful.
- [36:53]
C
Yeah. I mean, speaking I hate to bring up CS Lewis, I feel like I'm on podcast the Jew, bring up. C.S. lewis is great. Every podcast. All of his themes are basically about, like, recapturing the child within us. And he.
- [37:07]
A
He.
- [37:07]
C
In the introduction to Narnia, he says, it's. This is to my goddaughter. Her name's Lucy Barfield, the daughter of his friend Owen Barfield. And he says, you know, I wrote this when you were young. Now you're much older, but hopefully one day you'll be old enough to read fairy tales once again. And the themes of all of his works are that, you know, as children, we're very idealistic, and we have this wonder and this beauty that we could really tap into. And as adults, we become very cynical and we become. We become very hardened. And, like, adulthood should be about rediscovering the child. Not. Not as an escape, not as, like, I want to escape the world, go to be this Disney adult again, dink, no kid type, but as a way of, like, recapturing what is great about life.
- [37:48]
A
Well, I think that's what having cynicism. I think that's what having kids does to you, right? I mean, it's like, as you grow up and you become an adult and you navigate life, you have to narrow the scope of your vision. You have to focus on things. You have to make choices, right? I mean, like, the world is full of infinite choices, right? If we just contemplated every single choice, we would just stand still, right? Like, I have to know where I'm going. Which in and of itself, you know, reflects an element of faith, right? Because you have to. There's an element of faith that this is the right way to go and that what I'm pursuing is good for me. But anyway, it takes a great degree of sort of narrowing your vision to be a successful adult. But the beauty of kids, and I think one of the reasons why, like, it's just so wonderful to be around them is, is that they are looking at the world as this, like, completely open place. Their vision hasn't narrowed yet, so their senses of possibilities are infinite. And that there's. There's beauty in that. And so, like, you get to rediscover that as a parent, you get to reconnect with that. That sort of part of. Of being a child, which is.
- [38:59]
C
It's.
- [38:59]
A
It's nice. It gives you hope. It gives you. Yeah, I mean, you know, which is. And it. I think it counteracts the kind of cynicism that tends to come with adulthood, which is one of the reasons why I encourage you all to go out There. Get married, have kids. It's amazing. The best thing in the world.
- [39:15]
B
I thought first you were going to say to believe in Santa.
- [39:20]
A
That's right.
- [39:21]
C
That's right.
- [39:21]
A
Hey, maybe you'll get what you want. All right, well, before we go, I want to know what's. What's on your Christmas list. What are we asking Santa for?
- [39:29]
B
Oh, I mean, what I. What is on my Christmas list is that I hope my Venezuela becomes a free country. I'm sorry that I took it really serious, but that's been on my Christmas list since I was, like, conscious. We just gotta get my letters to Baby Jesus. Baby Jesus, please let Chavis not be president anymore. Wow, that was music. And now it's. I mean, we're getting closer, hopefully with the strikes. Yeah, they just confiscate. They ceased an oil tax.
- [39:59]
A
By the way, I saw one of the so happy dumbest takes on that. Someone commented. I forget who it was on X, but they were like, they were showing the video of the people, like, rappelling down from the helicopters onto the oil tank. And they're like, oh, so you can take a boat without blowing it up?
- [40:12]
B
It's like, you want them to blow up an oil tank. No, no. Also, there's different things here. The oil tank is very slow. Not like the huge.
- [40:20]
A
But you're also not going to spill tons of oil into the ocean.
- [40:23]
C
Well, but also environmental.
- [40:25]
B
We can sell the oil. We can keep the. What are we going to do with the drugs? We're going to snort the cocaine. Like, what do they expect? You know, Maybe those people, maybe Hunter Weig, if somebody else was in the White House, maybe the trader would have seen that.
- [40:39]
A
Those fish are having a party, though, let me tell you.
- [40:41]
B
So, so, but anyway, so I'm very happy about them seizing the oil tanker. I hope they seize many more of them and I hope they do more so that, you know, Venezuela can once again be a free country. So that's on my Christmas.
- [40:54]
A
All right.
- [40:54]
C
I'm just hoping.
- [40:55]
A
What are we asking for? For Hanukkah?
- [40:57]
C
Spend more time with my family.
- [40:58]
A
You guys are going to make me feel bad.
- [41:00]
C
Listen, I would love to get some stuff, maybe save up for some nice things for myself.
- [41:05]
B
What do you.
- [41:05]
A
You want to buy a watch?
- [41:08]
C
I'd love to buy a watch right now. Maybe save up for that. Get some sleep. That. That would be nice.
- [41:15]
A
That's right. You're a new parent.
- [41:16]
B
How old's your baby?
- [41:17]
C
She is about two and a half months now.
- [41:20]
A
I didn't know you had a Girl team girl dad. Yeah.
- [41:22]
C
Such a girl dad.
- [41:23]
A
It's the best.
- [41:24]
C
Everyone said, you're having a girl, you're a girl dad. I only grew up with sisters. Both my sister. My two older sisters had boys. I have girl. It's. It's classic.
- [41:33]
A
Nice. I. I had my son first, but.
- [41:35]
C
I. I got a girl too. In this. We should do. But we should do like some watch, you know, recommendations on this podcast. I think, you know, you, You.
- [41:41]
B
You're like, he would be the guy.
- [41:44]
A
No. John. Oh, John Ketchum's watch collection is really. Yes.
- [41:49]
C
I don't want to realize he's. Yeah.
- [41:51]
A
He's got taste.
- [41:51]
C
Yeah. He's got him a Christmas gift related to that a little bit. So. Nice. You know, maybe he'll bring that on the next podcast.
- [41:58]
A
But.
- [41:59]
C
But I want to hear here. You're.
- [42:01]
A
I mean, I. I don't know. A new watch would be. Would be nice. I'll always take a new watch.
- [42:05]
B
You're hoping Hoyenne watches this episode?
- [42:08]
A
No, she can't afford any of the watches that I want. Neither can I. That's why I don't have them.
- [42:16]
C
Yeah.
- [42:16]
A
I don't know. There's. I mean, I always wanted an aquanaut that's like. You know, it's the, like the base level stainless steel. The one. Which is funny because that's the one you'll never get. Even though it's the least exp.1. You could have the money walk into Patek Philippe and they just won't sell it to you.
- [42:35]
B
Oh, it's one of those.
- [42:36]
A
Yeah.
- [42:36]
C
It's like they rarely make them.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah, it's. It's.
- [42:39]
C
You know, so maybe one day an article from. There's this guy, Elliot Ackerman, and he did how to be a Gentleman series, Free Press, and he did a whole thing how to. How to own. How a man should own a watch and how. It's. It's not.
- [42:51]
A
I haven't read that. I gotta read.
- [42:52]
C
My point is, you're not like a materialist. Sure. Coveting. It's not. You're loving the beautiful things in life and it actually, I think goes back to that wonder. And like, there's a craftsmanship there. There is a respect for like this beautif. Beautiful, intricate thing that you're just wearing and you have. And you kind of look down. It's like, oh, that's. That's nice. And he's. I think he's coming to speak to us next week, so you should tell him.
- [43:12]
A
Nice. I will, I will.
- [43:13]
C
Yeah.
- [43:14]
A
I'LL have to pick a good watch to wear on that day.
- [43:17]
B
I don't know. I'll look him up.
- [43:18]
C
Yeah, no, you should. You would like his stuff. Yeah.
- [43:21]
A
All right. Well, unfortunately, that's all the time we have. I want to thank you all for watching another episode of the City Journal podcast. We also want to wish you a Merry Christmas, a Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, whatever it is that you celebrate. We hope that you bring in the New Year Year in the company of good friends and family, and we will see you again very soon.
- [43:40]
B
Merry Christmas.