Podcast Summary: City Journal Audio – "Fighting Covid School Closures"

Host: John Tierney, City Journal Contributing Editor
Guest: Natalia Morocco, Director/Producer, "15 Days" Documentary
Date: December 5, 2025

Overview:

This episode centers on the human and social costs of Covid-related school closures, as chronicled in Natalia Morocco's documentary, 15 Days. The conversation explores the origins of the movement to reopen schools, the failures of public officials and institutions, the ideological and financial drivers behind prolonged closures, and the profound effects on children, parents, and communities. The episode also discusses how similar policy disasters might unfold in the future—and the urgent need for accountability and remembrance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Natalia's Motivation and Grassroots Beginnings

• Natalia Morocco's Background:
  • Not a political activist but a New York City public school parent.
  • Motivated by seeing her two daughters abruptly deprived of schooling and socialization during the Covid closures.

    "I never really believed that it was going to be for 15 days. I could tell that once schools closed, it was much easier to close them than it would be to reopen them." (B, 01:48)

• Formation of Parent Activist Group:
  • Joined “Keep NYC Schools Open” in November 2020—a grassroots coalition mainly of mothers.

    "We kicked it off with this one march, one rally down in lower Manhattan. I knew I had to be part of it, even though... I don't really love politics." (B, 03:36)

• Observation: Unlike many cities and countries that reopened, NYC set “impossible transmission thresholds” impeding school returns.

The Human Impact & Overlooked Costs

• Athletes and Socialization:
  • Sports – a crucial aspect of youth development and mentorship – were shut down, robbing students of opportunity and belonging.

    "Coaches are mentors. They are like father figures... It really was like a guardrail for these young people. And when they took away sports, that really kind of took away many of these young people's desire to even be in schools." (B, 04:48)

  • College-bound student athletes lost scholarship opportunities because they couldn’t compete.
• Vivid Documentary Scenes:
  • Powerful visual of removed basketball hoops underscored the extreme nature of the restrictions.
  • Legendary Cardozo High coach Ron Niclario’s deep concern for his athletes featured prominently.

    "He saw very early on how dangerous it would be to have these children pushed from schools and from sports and onto the streets...he was right." (B, 06:28)

Forgotten or Rejected Scientific Consensus

• Pre-Pandemic Wisdom:

  • The CDC’s original pandemic plan—based on real science—advised against school closures or lockdowns, even for a pandemic as deadly as the Spanish Flu.
  • Early expert dissenters (Jay Bhattacharya, Scott Atlas, Monica Gandhi) warned that imposed measures would prove more damaging than the virus, particularly for children.

    "Scott Atlas knew what the pandemic playbook really said. Focused protection has never been a radical idea." (B, 08:28)

• Historical Perspective:

  • Even during the Spanish Flu, progressive districts kept schools open for children’s welfare, recognizing the risks posed by keeping kids out (malnutrition, lack of supervision, loss of mandated reporters).

Political & Ideological Drivers Behind Prolonged Closures

• Teachers’ Unions & Political Leverage:

  "The simple answer is the outsized power of the teachers unions. The teachers unions are some of the largest donors to the Democratic Party...they saw a crisis..to raise so much money." (B, 10:10)

  • Unions, bolstered by significant federal funding ($189.5 billion), created alliances with NGOs—including environmental groups—using the pandemic as a vehicle for larger political and societal transformations.

• Stunning Documentary Evidence:

  • Zoom calls showed NGOs, union leaders, Jane Fonda collaborating to “reimagine society”.

    "Jane Fonda's in her infamous words, that Covid was God's gift to the left." (A, 11:43)

  • Project Veritas hidden-camera: Former Biden staffer described post-2024 election rush to fund progressive NGOs.

    "It was like throwing gold bars off the Titanic." (A, 12:26)

A Progressive Parent’s Awakening

• Natalia’s Self-Reflection:

  • Entered pandemic a “progressive Democrat” who’d never been skeptical of her political “flock”.

    "I wasn't really anti establishment on any level, but when I saw what was happening, it was extremely eye opening." (B, 14:07)

  • Was deeply unsettled by local officials refusing to engage with evidence-based requests to reopen; realized party was placing ideology over children’s wellbeing.

• Double Standards Highlighted:

  • Points to contradiction: BLM protests were encouraged even as classrooms stayed closed, though large gatherings elsewhere were forbidden.

Censorship, Media, and the Collapse of Scientific Institutions

• Systematic Suppression of Dissent:

  • Journalists and independent researchers faced “fact-checking” and censorship for raising concerns about masking and school closures.
  • Example: An article by host John Tierney flagged as “partly false,” despite accuracy.
  • The American Academy of Pediatrics reversed its initial stance on reopening after pressure from unions, exhibiting institutional capture.

    "They were, I guess, fronted by the teachers unions and they reversed course...The American Academy of Pediatrics showed that it was completely compromised by progressive activists." (B, 17:26)

• Inconsistencies Across America:

  • Red states returned to normal; blue states like California maintained closures and masking far longer, with some mask mandates still active even years later.

    "Santa Clara Valley, California still has a mask mandate in the wintertime. It's still going on." (B, 18:46)

Enduring Risks, Lessons, and Warnings

• Persistence of Failed Institutions:

  • Many of the same organizations and union leaders responsible for COVID-era policies remain in power.
  • Some positive shifts: Jay Bhattacharya now leads the NIH and is reforming pandemic policy.

• Importance of Remembrance:

  • The documentary serves as a record to ensure the failures of COVID-era school policies are neither forgotten nor repeated.

    "It's so important, I think, that people be reminded of that, that we not let, you know, let these mistakes be forgotten." (A, 19:34)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the danger of prioritizing bureaucracy over children:

  "It was more dangerous for children to be outside of school buildings without teachers who are mandated reporters if they see something's wrong, without nutrition, without socialization, without their teachers; it was dangerous to lock kids out of school buildings. This time we conveniently forgot that." (B, 09:13)

• On the documentary’s evidence of elite strategizing:

  "All these NGOs and unions working together to do it. And just the money that was involved, it was quite incredible." (A, 12:00)

• Jane Fonda on Zoom call:

  "Covid was God's gift to the left." (As recounted by A, 11:46)

• Natalia on political alienation:

  "But at this point, I am really homeless." (B, 15:28)

• On institutional betrayal and public memory:

  "It was very clear early in the pandemic, and it was clear before the pandemic what the right response would be. And it was clear early that this virus was not a risk to young...And you show so well these groups that were responsible for, you know, for terrifying the public and for imposing these terrible policies." (A, 19:31)

Important Timestamps

• [01:31 – 03:36]: Natalia Morocco describes personal concerns, early activism, and the formation of Keep NYC Schools Open.
• [04:42 – 06:28]: Discussion of abandoned student athletes and interviews with Coach Ron Niclario.
• [07:23 – 09:13]: Pre-pandemic CDC guidance, expert dissenters, historical context.
• [10:09 – 12:26]: The political machinery of teachers unions, NGO alliances, and use of the crisis for power and funding.
• [13:44 – 15:28]: Natalia’s political journey and awakening.
• [17:18 – 18:46]: American Academy of Pediatrics’ reversal; geographic disparities and ongoing mandates.
• [19:17 – 20:46]: Enduring risks and the need to remember.

How to Watch the Documentary

• Title: 15 Days
• Website: 15daysfilm.com
• Availability: Order DVD, watch for free on X (Twitter), and major streaming channels soon.

The original conversation was forthright, data-driven, and highly personal, carrying the voices of parents and journalists determined not to let pandemic-era policy failures be repeated or rewritten by those in power.