Podcast Summary
Podcast: City Journal Audio
Episode: Socialism and Social Cohesion in New York City
Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Brian Anderson (A), editor of City Journal
Guest: Stephen Ide (B), senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Stephen Ide's recent City Journal article, "Scandinavia on the Hudson," exploring New York City's ongoing experiments with social democratic policies. The discussion examines whether New York's generous welfare programs actually reproduce the successes seen in European (especially Scandinavian) countries, and why outcomes often fall short—touching on cultural, economic, and political differences. The conversation also unpacks the tension between rising progressive political influence and the practical limitations of social democracy in a diverse, high-cost city.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Is New York Already Social Democratic?

• Context: Despite calls for more social policies, New York already implements many layers of support, arguably pushing it close to a European-style welfare state.
• Stephen Ide points out:
  • New York builds on federal programs and adds state and local initiatives, fostering a persistent drive for expansion.

    "What New York does is it takes everything the federal government does ... and then it layers on top of that various state and local initiatives to bring us closer to Europe." (Stephen Ide, 03:17)

  • There hasn’t been a small-government leader in New York “maybe not ever,” so the new democratic socialism is just an amplification of longstanding tendencies.

    "Democratic socialism is sort of like turning up to 11 these kind of political tendencies towards social policy that have been in New York City for decades." (B, 03:17)

2. The Middle-Class Squeeze and Fiscal Sustainability

• Concern: Policies meant to aid the poor can increase burdens on the working and middle class—raising the risk that this key group will exit the city.
  • The "top and bottom coalition" (affluent plus government-dependent groups) seems to be intensifying at the expense of the middle class.

    "Everything that New York keeps doing just seems to create that, make that order firmer and further. And the numbers of middle class people leaving the city in the past 10 to 15 years really speak to this." (B, 04:37)

  • Middle-class outmigration accelerated during and after COVID-19, affecting diverse groups, including immigrants and Black middle-class residents. (05:37)

3. Can the Welfare State Be a ‘Trampoline’ in New York?

• Contrast with Scandinavia: Scandinavian countries envision the welfare state helping people rebound (“a trampoline”) rather than trapping them in dependency.
  • In New York, intergenerational poverty remains stubbornly high, especially in areas like the South Bronx.

    "The trampoline is...kind of like the last metaphor you would apply to an experience like the South Bronx." (B, 06:19)

  • The idea of upward mobility through welfare is not playing out as it did during Clinton-era reforms; under mayors like de Blasio and Adams, welfare rolls have surged.

    "Under the Adams administration, you'd have an absolute explosion in enrollment in traditional cash assistance welfare programs. So the numbers are really rising...much more than the crime numbers..." (B, 08:02)

4. Social Cohesion and Cultural Differences

• Scandinavian Model: Presumes high social trust and a relatively homogeneous society.
• New York Model: Much more diverse and fragmented, lacking the level of trust and shared identity that can make redistribution palatable to all.

  "Scandinavian welfare states rest on what you would describe as an unusually high level of social trust, and they are broadly culturally homogeneous. New York...is one of the more diverse and fragmented places in the world." (A, 09:39)

  • Some current proposals (like free buses) depart from social democracy’s ethos, focusing instead on targeted benefits rather than universal shared systems.

    "A true social democratic approach ... everyone pays into the system and then everyone receives the benefits." (B, 10:15)

5. The Role of Progressive Politicians

• Growing Influence: Democratic Socialist politicians wield outsized influence through the threat of primary challenges, even as many New York Democrats remain centrists in practice.

  "...the DSA and other far left members can legitimately show that they're winning because they wield this really, really intimidating threat when elections and also just primary people and have successfully shown that they're more organized, they're more effective." (B, 11:47)

  • Adds instability and pressure on centrists, with implications for city and state policy direction.

6. National Lessons and Limits

• Transferability Question: Other American cities shouldn’t assume European-style policies will work identically in the U.S.—examples like Vancouver show persistent disorder despite robust social programs.

  "...if you just kind of package one kind of welfare system and that has worked in one place and put it in America, that you're going to have the same effect. No one knows how that would play out, but...it's reasonable to think that it won't..." (B, 13:18)

• Specialization: New York should double down where social democracy aligns with its needs—like its public transit system—rather than copying the entire model wholesale.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:17 | B | "Democratic socialism is sort of like turning up to 11 these kind of political tendencies towards social policy that have been in New York City for decades." | | 04:37 | B | "Everything that New York keeps doing just seems to create that, make that order firmer and further. And the numbers of middle class people leaving the city in the past 10 to 15 years really speak to this." | | 06:19 | B | "The trampoline is...kind of like the last metaphor you would apply to an experience like the South Bronx." | | 08:02 | B | "Welfare has risen much more dramatically. And so I don't know what to expect in terms of the next administration... poised for real growth in the welfare numbers in coming years." | | 10:15 | B | "A true social democratic approach in New York City, the last thing that that would favor is something like free buses. A public transit system is a really quintessentially social democratic program. Everyone pays into the system and then everyone receives the benefits." | | 11:47 | B | "...the DSA and other far left members can legitimately show that they're winning because they wield this really, really intimidating threat ... and have successfully shown that they're more organized, they're more effective." | | 13:18 | B | "...if you just kind of package one kind of welfare system and that has worked in one place and put it in America, that you're going to have the same effect. No one knows how that would play out, but...it's reasonable to think that it won't..." |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:16 – 01:48: Introduction and framing: Is New York already social democratic?
• 03:17 – 04:37: The politics of expansion and the middle-class squeeze.
• 05:56 – 07:36: Welfare as a 'trampoline'—comparison with Scandinavia and persistent poverty in New York.
• 08:02 – 09:39: Welfare reform, history, and recent reversals under new city administrations.
• 09:39 – 11:25: Social cohesion, cultural trust, and differences between Scandinavian and New York models.
• 11:25 – 13:18: The progressive/DSA influence on city and state politics.
• 13:18 – 14:33: Lessons for other cities and the challenge of replicating welfare models.

Summary Takeaways

• New York already embodies many social democratic policies, but struggles with poor outcomes, especially concerning social cohesion and intergenerational poverty.
• The city faces a growing divide between the affluent, the poor, and a shrinking, burdened middle class.
• Attempts to emulate Scandinavian-style social democracy run up against structural and cultural realities unique to the U.S.—not least lower levels of social trust and diversity.
• Progressive forces are increasingly influential, but further expansion of the welfare state may be limited by fiscal and demographic constraints.
• Other American cities should be cautious in trying to replicate the New York model, as local context and path dependence matter greatly.