City Journal Audio – The West’s Civilizational Inheritance

Podcast: City Journal Audio
Host: Brian Anderson (Editor, City Journal)
Guests: Prof. James Hankins (Harvard University), Prof. Alan Guelzo (University of Florida)
Date: October 10, 2025
Episode Theme: A discussion of The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition, Volume 1 – The Ancient World and Christendom, exploring the origins, structure, meaning, and relevance of “Western Civilization,” and the importance of restoring its study in education.

Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation between host Brian Anderson and historians James Hankins and Alan Guelzo. The guests discuss their new book project, The Golden Thread, a two-volume, visually rich history of the Western tradition, with Volume 1 covering the ancient world through Christendom, and the forthcoming Volume 2 addressing the modern and contemporary West. The hosts explore the motivations for the project, the debates around Western civilization, the collaboration process, and the book’s intended role in educational renewal.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Aims of The Golden Thread

• Project Inspiration:

  • The initiative follows Wilfred McClay’s Land of Hope, which sought to present a balanced American history against what the authors term “historical pessimists.”
    • “[McClay’s book points] in a significantly more optimistic direction… We looked at each other, we looked at Roger, and more or less came to the conclusion that, all right, there’s a great American history survey. Perhaps we should now think in larger terms about a survey of the history of the West…” – Alan Guelzo [02:25]
  • Commissioned by Roger Kimball and Encounter Books [02:01].
  • Aimed to survey not just politics, but also the literary, philosophical, and artistic achievements of the West [02:25, 04:23].

• Volume Structure:

  • Volume 1: Ancient World to Renaissance (~1500 AD) [03:39]
  • Volume 2: Modern West, from Reformation through 1991 [03:59]
    • “[It] will end with events of 1991, largely because what we wanted to write was history rather than current events.” – Alan Guelzo [04:04]

Collaboration and Book Design

• Collaboration Roots:
  • Both authors have been colleagues since youth, frequently debating and discussing the Western tradition [05:28].
    • “Maybe we could say that it’s Aristotle to Zarathustra and make it A to Z.” – Alan Guelzo [05:28]
• Division of Historic Eras:
  • Hankins: Ancient to Renaissance
  • Guelzo: Post-Renaissance to the late 20th century [03:39]
• Visual Dimension:
  • Over 800 illustrations, mostly in color, to make the tradition tangible and visually compelling [06:29].
  • Art serves to visually demonstrate the depth and continuity of the Western tradition [06:29–08:24].
    • “Anyone who just leafs through the volume… will see that there is such a thing as the Western tradition and also that has been immensely valuable…” – James Hankins [07:53]

Debates Over “Western Civilization”

• Contestation of the Idea:
  • The project responds to movements like the 1619 Project and theorists who label the Western canon “problematic” [08:24].
• Addressing Western Civilization’s ‘Dark Sides’:
  • The book confronts topics like slavery, warfare, and prejudice, but always in historical context [09:13].
    • “We don’t shy away from it… but we try to place them in context…” – James Hankins [09:13]
  • Emphasizes unique features: self-correction, the pursuit of truth, legal/governmental frameworks, and resilience, distinguishing the West [10:51–14:44].
    • “There’s a profound sense of resilience in the Western tradition… it is the Western tradition itself which self corrects…” – Alan Guelzo [11:11]
    • “That is unique for Western civilization.” – James Hankins [12:20]
  • Modern crises seen as results of repudiating rather than exemplifying Western ideals [13:43].

Modern Fragmentation and Enlightenment Roots

• Breakdown Since 1500:
  • The Reformation, the Scientific Revolution, and the Enlightenment as major forces of change [15:01].
  • The 20th century saw “a serious and conscious repudiation of the things that we associate with the Western tradition.” – Alan Guelzo [15:48]
• Legacy of the Enlightenment:
  • The decline is misunderstood as either a product of, or reaction to, the Enlightenment—a subject volume 2 will further explore [15:50].

Intended Audience and Educational Role

• Target Readers:
  • Upper-level high school students, college students (especially classical schools and certain colleges), the homeschool movement, and adult readers curious about Western culture [16:46, 19:15].
    • “It’s written really for adults in a way, challenges high school students…” – James Hankins [16:46]
    • “Anybody could pick these down off the shelf and find something enjoyable to immerse themselves in…” – Alan Guelzo [22:01]
• Structure & Approach:
  • Main chapters interspersed with “threads”—short thematic essays (e.g., on composers, events, figures) [19:15, 21:50].
  • Narrative covers politics, religion, philosophy, art, architecture, and music.

The Broader Movement for Western Civ and Lessons of History

• Role of Great Books vs. Narrative History:

  • Advocates supplementing the “great books” approach with true historical narrative to deepen understanding and nuance [22:41].
    • “You just can’t put books in chronological order and call that history. History is a discipline…” – James Hankins [23:10]

• Necessity of Historical Knowledge:

  • Argues that awareness of the past inoculates against fanaticism, ideological rigidity, and gullibility [23:33].
    • “History is a great cure for fanaticism and for fear mongering, which we see all around us.” – James Hankins [23:47]
    • “History does a tremendous work that way for people.” – Alan Guelzo [25:02]

• Policy & Parental Involvement:

  • Cites state efforts (e.g., Florida, Texas) and wider adoption by classical education initiatives and possible NEH (National Endowment for the Humanities) support [22:41].

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Collaboration:

  • “I have to suppose from Bartok all the way to Nietzsche and beyond… Aristotle to Zarathustra and make it A to Z.” – Alan Guelzo [05:28]

• On the Book’s Purpose:

  • “We set out to identify certain basic constants in this thing called progressive tradition… inquiry, the free and fiery into philosophical questions, trying to understand how do we know things, what is really there? How do we pursue truth?” – Alan Guelzo [10:51]
  • “That is unique for Western civilization.” – James Hankins [12:20]

• On Visual Argument:

  • “Anyone who just leafs through the volume… will see that there is such a thing as the Western tradition and also that has been immensely valuable, inspiring art and literature and music for 3,000 years.” – James Hankins [07:53]

• On History’s Value:

  • “History is the enemy of fanaticism. The more history you know, the less likely you are to engage in black and white thinking…” – James Hankins [23:33]
  • “Great books standing alone… can be misused… An understanding of the historical narrative… keeps the moral balance of it in place.” – Alan Guelzo [25:08]

• On Education’s Renewal:

  • “Writing a history in which those great books are embedded seems… one way of issuing this great caution. Do not be too quick to assume.” – Alan Guelzo [25:22]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background and Book Introduction: 00:16–04:04
• Collaboration and Visuals: 05:01–08:24
• Contesting “Western Civ” and Handling the Dark Sides: 08:24–12:22
• Constants of the Western Tradition & Vol. 2 Preview: 12:22–16:20
• Audience and Educational Movements: 16:20–19:15
• “Threads,” Book Features, and Accessibility: 19:15–22:15
• Policy, Parental, and Historical Curricula Renewal: 22:15–25:51
• Closing Remarks and Parting Thoughts: 25:51–26:17

Summary

This episode offers a spirited, erudite, and engaging discussion regarding the necessity of teaching the Western tradition as an interconnected, living inheritance rather than a mere collection of books or dates. While acknowledging its flaws, Professors Hankins and Guelzo argue for honest, contextual engagement and maintain that only by root knowledge of tradition can individuals and societies hope to remain free, resilient, and humane. The Golden Thread project stands both as a celebration and a defense of this tradition—designed to equip students, educators, and lay readers to better understand the Western past and its enduring relevance.