City Journal Audio: "Tragedies Old and New" – September 11, 2025

Podcast Summary by Section

Episode Overview

On the 24th anniversary of the September 11th attacks, host Isabella Redjai moderates a reflective conversation with prominent New York writers and policy analysts—John Tierney, Nicole Gelinas, and Park MacDougald. The episode examines the enduring legacy of 9/11, recent tragedies such as the assassination of Charlie Kirk, changing attitudes toward unity and patriotism, the rise of political violence and victimhood culture, and how generational and societal changes have shaped perceptions of tragedy, heroism, and division in America.

Opening Reflections: Recent and Past Tragedies

Charlie Kirk’s Assassination

• The episode opens with condolences following the killing of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk in Utah.
• Redjai notes the escalation in political violence, setting a somber context for the discussion.

  “I think that it says something about the growing political violence in our country.” (00:40)

Emotional Reactions

• Nicole Jelinas remarks on Kirk’s influence, especially among younger audiences.

  “A lot of people are hurting today and feeling like they...Somebody whom they knew.” (01:50)

Remembering September 11th: The Personal & Civic Experience

Recollections of the Day

• John Tierney recalls the moment he learned of the attacks and describes shock and disbelief.

  “I was at the dentist...A driver rolls down his window and said a plane flew into the World Trade Tower. And I just said, come on, you know, you’re crazy. And then you could look down Fifth Avenue and see the smoke going up.” (02:53)

• Nicole Jelinas describes the abrupt shift in the city’s mood, referencing a mundane morning suddenly ruptured by chaos.

  “It is a good place to start just to get an understanding of how this really ruptured what was a very calm, pleasant, mundane day.” (04:09)

• Park MacDougald, reflecting as someone who was nine years old in Atlanta, shares how 9/11 became his entry into awareness of global events.

  “My dad picking me up in the carpool line. And the first thing he says is, ‘We’re at war.’ And I asked, ‘Am I gonna have to fight?’ And he says, ‘Maybe.’” (06:13)

Generational Commentary

• Jelinas explains how previous tragedies—like the Challenger explosion—felt more contained and fixable, whereas 9/11’s aftermath eroded confidence in the nation’s ability to solve big problems.

  “It was interesting over the years to see that confidence in ourselves erode on both fronts and help bring us to, unfortunately, where we are today...” (07:20)

Unity & Resilience

• Tierney notes the surprising capacity for kindness and civic spirit among New Yorkers after disaster:

  “It's one of the myths about disasters and tragedies that people are going to go crazy. And in fact, what they really find is that it's amazing how helpful people can be.” (08:26)

• Redjai and guests discuss how New Yorkers supported each other logistically and emotionally (09:16–12:49).

Civic Institutions, Bureaucracies & Reaction

Recovery and Overreaction

• Discussion turns to the bureaucratic aftermath—massive growth in the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA, considered by Tierney as over-corrections that restricted freedom without addressing real threats.

  “We had this enormous reaction where we create the Department of Homeland Security, we create this horrible TSA bureaucracy, all these deprivations of freedom for a threat that actually didn’t exist anymore, but it was just exploited by everyone.” (14:04)

• Jelinas critiques the proliferation of bureaucratic entities during the rebuilding of Ground Zero.

  “When the rebuilding process sort of turned into a bureaucratic morass with all these new public authorities created...the state and the city could blame these new bureaucratic entities.” (14:41)

Spontaneous Heroism & the Limits of Regulation

The “Boat Lift” & Spontaneous Action

• The hosts share the “boat lift” story, when civilians rescued others from the waterfront with self-organization trumping regulation.

  “That’s people at their best...it’s inspiring to them.” (16:35, 17:07)

Societal Trust and Social Capital

• MacDougald raises questions about whether Americans’ social trust and unity are unique, and whether “low-trust societies” are influencing American norms as immigration increases.

  “We've brought a lot more people like that into the country over the last...from low trust societies and sort of adopted aspects of those political cultures.” (18:29)

• Jelinas emphasizes the mutual aid and sense of responsibility found across socioeconomic lines in Lower Manhattan. (19:00–20:25)

Would Unity Recur Today? Comparative Analysis

Would We See Such Unity Today?

• The panel is skeptical, pointing to deepening partisanship and instances of antagonism following tragedies (e.g. reactions to Charlie Kirk, COVID-19).

  MacDougald: “I don't think we saw that with COVID...so many people kind of celebrating that [Kirk’s death]...” (20:39)

Media Environment Then vs. Now

• Fragmentation of the news and omnipresence of social media amplify division and conspiracy.

  “It’s much more anarchic now where extreme positions can get a hearing.” (23:00–23:42)

• Jelinas reflects on the lack of images from inside the towers or the planes—“probably better that we didn't watch over and over what was going on.” (23:43)
• Income disparities and “equal treatment” among victims briefly noted. (24:00–25:30)

Silver Linings of a Fractured Media

• Tierney acknowledges benefits:

  “In many ways it's a better media environment today...because you have alternatives to these mainstream narratives.” (25:47)

Generational Distance, Victimhood, and Ideological Drift

Changing Perceptions of Terrorism

• Redjai observes that Gen Z is often distant from understanding 9/11 and that dangerous rhetoric (including pro-Hamas sentiment) circulates on campuses and social media. (27:38–28:50)

• MacDougald attributes some to demoralization following the perceived failures of post-9/11 interventions:

  “There is this sense of demoralization...that what we did after 911 was just a total failure.” (29:33)

• Tierney laments the lack of institutional memory and the fading sense of national threat:

  “We haven’t really had, you know, major threats for 20 years...people think, well, you know, we're just this colossus, we don't have to worry about threats to us.” (31:43)

Normalization of Security Measures

• Jelinas points to the everyday security theater as a low-level, persistent source of civic anxiety:

  “Now...many buildings now, you have to sign in before you even get access to the building. Really a loss of more casual, spontaneous...” (32:34)

Shifting Notions of Heroism and Police

Public Attitudes Toward Police

• The panel notes the cultural shift from valorizing first responders in 2001 to “defund the police” rhetoric:

  Tierney: “A lot of discourse...those are sort of traditional manly virtues. You go into a building when everyone's leaving and there's been this kind of...for decades now just, you know, that's toxic masculinity.” (34:47)

• Jelinas notes the gender breakdown of victims as a reflection of the professions most involved. (35:52)

Victimhood, Academia, and Social Status

Why Victimhood Culture?

• The guests agree that academic monoculture and status-seeking drive much of the “victim identity” among young Americans, rather than a simple lack of historical education.

  Tierney: “If you're an academic...you get status in that community by being against America and you get status by being a victim.” (37:41)

• MacDougald references Tom Wolfe and Rob Henderson’s ideas (“radical chic,” “luxury beliefs”) as explanatory frameworks.

  “It's really about social status. It's not, you don't hold these beliefs deeply, necessarily. You're trying to fit in.” (39:37)

Changing Meaning of the American Flag

• Jelinas laments the American flag’s shift from unifying to partisan symbolism.

  “Everybody put out the American flag, which...now [is] seen as a conservative thing.” (40:17)

Politics, Polarization, and Generational Hopes

Democratic Party, Victimhood, and Coalition Management

• MacDougald argues that cultivating resentment/victimhood helps hold modern Democratic coalitions together but is now becoming problematic even internally.

  “The kind of cultivation of victimhood, the cultivation of resentment...is really the kind of glue that holds that party together.” (41:21)

Cycles of Political Realignment

• MacDougald describes the present as a time of “coalitions falling apart” and intense struggle for the next political consensus:

  “Every so often the American political system has periods of relative stability...and then that every so often cracks up as coalitions fall apart...I think we're in one of those kind of transition periods.” (49:55)

How Do We Rebuild Unity? Final Reflections

Personal Remembrance and Meaning

• Jelinas proposes grounding oneself in the memory and example of those lost:

  “Would those people at the top of the building looking down on us, would they like what we have become 24 years ago?...try to center on how can we be trying to make things a little bit better than making things worse.” (46:00)

Individual Practices

• MacDougald and Jelinas advocate for logging off social media and seeking in-person dialogue rather than online tribalism:

  “It's always good to not spend too much time on social media. You know, I think it can have a kind of deranging effect on people and on, on our discourse.” (47:52)

• Respect for adversaries and healthy debate noted as essential, referencing Kirk’s debating style. (49:06)

Cynical but Practical Outlooks

• MacDougald: Unity cannot be restored by wishing it so, but will emerge as a new consensus after this period of transition and conflict.

  “My sense is...there's sort of a fight for basically hegemony in the new system that's going to be constructed. And...the competing visions for what America is going to be going forward are very far apart right now.” (49:55)

Tierney’s “Rules” for Responding to Crises

• “The world will always seem to be in crisis. The crisis is never as bad as it sounds. The solution will probably make things worse.” (52:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Everyone was kind of...There were people at direct. There were no stoplights. So people became, you know, self-appointed traffic people.” – John Tierney (08:02)
• “It's amazing how people...how helpful people can be.” – John Tierney, on disaster response (08:26)
• “If something like this tragic event were to happen today, do you think that we would see that same sense of unity and patriotism...?” – Isabella Redjai (20:25)
• “It's much more anarchic now where extreme positions can get a hearing.” – Park MacDougald (23:42)
• “Now, you have to sign in before you even get access to the building. Really a loss of more casual, spontaneous…” – Nicole Jelinas (32:34)
• “A lot of discourse, you know, those are sort of traditional manly virtues… now just, you know, that's toxic masculinity.” – John Tierney (34:47)
• “If you're an academic...you get status in that community by being against America and you get status by being a victim.” – John Tierney (37:41)
• “Would those people at the top of the building looking down on us, would they like what we have become 24 years ago?” – Nicole Jelinas (46:00)
• “My rules...number one, the world will always seem to be in crisis. Number two, the crisis is never as bad as it sounds. And number three, the solution will probably make things worse.” – John Tierney (52:44)

Conclusion

The panel closes on a shared note: while the post-9/11 spirit of unity feels remote, remembering the victims, striving for in-person connection, resisting fear-mongering, and maintaining perspective on crises are ways forward. However, deep structural and cultural rifts mean any future national solidarity will require substantial renewal.

(End of Summary)