City Journal Audio

Episode Title: Who We Are: Race and Meritocracy
Date: January 21, 2026
Host: Ralph (A)
Guest: Jason L. Riley (B), Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute

Episode Overview

In this enlightening episode, host Ralph engages Jason L. Riley in a candid and rigorous discussion about race, meritocracy, and the dominance of grievance narratives in American public discourse. Drawing on Riley’s scholarship and personal experiences, the conversation traces the evolution of black advancement in America, the disconnect between activists and everyday black Americans, and the necessity of revisiting the foundational principles of agency and personal responsibility. The episode confronts orthodoxies on both left and right regarding race, explores the legacy of thinkers like Shelby Steele and Thomas Sowell, and considers practical advice for young minorities navigating today’s contentious debates.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Framing the Debate: Race, Agency, and Outcomes

• The left vs. right divide on race:

  • Left: Outcomes shaped mainly by societal racism and structural discrimination.
  • Right: Emphasis on individual agency and personal choices.
  • Jason L. Riley: “I think it is fairly accurate, this idea of agency, that racial and ethnic minority groups are somewhat helpless in the face of society and society's impact on them... I came at this through some authors...Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, and Glenn Lowry...” [01:57]

• Intellectual influences:

  • Riley describes discovering Steele, Sowell, and Lowry in his youth, whose writings confirmed his existing inclinations and provided him with the vocabulary to articulate his perspective.
  • “I had somehow found some soulmates…taught me how to articulate what my gut was telling me. Yeah, they gave me the vocabulary.” [03:28]

• The need for each generation to “relearn” these lessons:

  • Historical insights must be reintroduced to each new cohort, since the dominant narrative continuously resets. [05:15]

Riley’s Background and Contrasts with Mainstream Narratives

• Upbringing in a black religious and close-knit family:

  • Riley describes an ecosystem focusing on “self responsibility and self respect and stay in school, get a job, take care of your kids…” [10:13]
  • Contrast with “the world of politics and activism and racial spokesmen,” which he contends push a narrative of black victimhood divorced from on-the-ground realities. [11:28]

• Disconnect between activists and everyday black Americans:

  • Polling consistently shows a gulf between what media/activists advocate and what black Americans support (e.g., policing, school choice, voter ID laws, affirmative action).
  • “You mentioned police and crime control…polling showing strong support for more crime control in black communities than the spokesman want to acknowledge.” [13:33]
  • “You ask black people themselves if they want racial preferences. No, they do not.” [15:51]

• Influence of special interests:

  • Politicians (including President Obama) often act against community preferences due to obligations to interest groups like teachers' unions. [17:08]
  • “Even a black president was not someone who was able to stand up to the forces of big labor…” [17:11]

The Racial Grievance Industry

• Race as a political and economic motivator:

  • The lucrative nature of racial grievance for activists, academics, and organizations.
  • “There is a racial grievance industry. It's a very lucrative industry...there's a huge market out there for that type of thinking.” [19:29], [20:43]
  • The media’s role in amplifying this narrative, often irrespective of actual community sentiment. [20:39]

• Critique of the “racism explains all disparities” thesis:

  • The left assumes, “that racism is the main driver of racial disparities in society, full stop.” [22:11]
  • Empirical challenge: Racial gaps have fluctuated over time even as racism has, if anything, diminished.
  • “Racism has been the constant here…yet the racial gaps have not always been what they have been.” [22:42]

Historical Patterns: Progress, Regression, and Misdiagnosis

• Black upward mobility prior to 1970:

  • Marked improvement in income, homeownership, and education from the 1930s to late 1960s—often under far more hostile racial climates. [25:22]
  • “The poverty rate for black families falling by 40 percentage points from 87% 1940 to 47% in 1960. You saw black incomes as a percentage of white incomes narrowing…” [26:06]

• Stalling and reversal:

  • Flattening of progress coinciding with the breakdown of the black family and a shift in the civil rights movement—from universal colorblindness to demands for racial preference and special treatment. [29:27], [31:12]
  • Proliferation of single-parent households seen as a pivotal factor in stalling economic advancement.

• The “political power fallacy”:

  • Attaining black political power (mayors, superintendents, Congressmembers), especially post-1968, did not yield the expected socioeconomic gains.
  • “The strategy...towards achieving more political power did not pay off the way we were told it was going to pay off…The problem was taking their eye off the ball in terms of building...the human capital that is much more important than the political capital.” [34:18]
  • Other groups have historically achieved economic progress first and political influence later; the Irish experience as a cautionary tale. [36:57]

Race, Inequality, and the Myth of Equal Outcomes

• The expectation of equal outcomes among groups as ahistorical:

  • “The reality is that people who have studied civilizations down through history have never found this equal outcome…where you're going to have particularly multiethnic or multiracial societies, equal numbers of people pursuing medicine or law or scoring on this or income levels…You just, you don't see that anywhere.” [42:18]
  • Troubles with the DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) agenda—a quest for balance not supported by history.

• Material and cultural drivers of group advancement:

  • Referencing Thomas Sowell and Jared Diamond, the critical importance of cultural diffusion and adaptation over isolationism. [44:02]
  • “These are the building blocks of civilizational progress.” [45:46]
  • Warnings against the ideology of “cultural appropriation” and separatism.

“Acting White” and Cultural Separatism

• The “acting white” phenomenon as a barrier to progress:

  • Riley identifies this mindset as rooted in a broader resistance to assimilating productive habits or values perceived as belonging to the majority.
  • “These are dirty words. But again, these are how civilizations have progressed…And yes, people who met in cities could more easily do this than people who had isolated themselves in mountainous regions...” [46:09], [47:52]

• The shift to separatism in the late 1960s:

  • “It was a step backwards...King had it right. King wanted blacks to assimilate to the mainstream of American society… the black militants come along and say, we're going to counter the white separatism with black separatism. That wasn't King's approach.” [51:19]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On the “racial grievance industry”:

“If you or I decided to spend our time blaming all the problems of racial minorities on white people...we could probably triple our speaking fees and book advances.” —Jason L. Riley [20:39]

On individual agency:

“You can't go out into the world thinking like that. And shame on the adults that are doing that...shame on the adults that are sending these young minority kids out there telling them that the cops are gunning for them...They are not doing these kids any favors.” —Jason L. Riley [57:29]

On America’s progress (or lack thereof):

“I'm not optimistic that our political class is going to let any of this stuff go away. There's too much at stake in our racial grievance industry in this country for them to let it go away.” —Jason L. Riley [56:33]

On the myth of equal group outcomes:

“The reality is that people who have studied civilizations down through history have never found this equal outcome.” —Jason L. Riley [42:18]

On the historic importance of cultural assimilation:

“These are the building blocks of civilizational progress.” —Jason L. Riley [45:46]
“It was a step backwards. It was...unfortunate because I think King had it right.” —Jason L. Riley [51:19]

On the gap between activists and the black community:

“Issue after issue…just down the line…on affirmative action…you ask black people themselves if they want racial preferences. No, they do not.” —Jason L. Riley [15:51]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:57] Distinguishing Left/Right on Race; Agency and Victimhood
• [03:36] Influence of Conservative Black Thinkers
• [08:56] Riley’s Upbringing and Cultural Messages in Black Communities
• [13:33] Polling Disconnect: BLM, Policing, and Community Desires
• [17:08] Obama, School Choice, and Special Interests
• [19:29] The Political Cudgel of Race and the Racial Grievance Industry
• [22:42] Fluctuation of Disparities Despite Decreasing Racism
• [25:22] Black Advancement: 20th Century Trends and Inflection Points
• [31:12] Rise of Single-Parent Black Households and Stalled Progress
• [34:18] Political Power Doesn’t Equal Economic Gains
• [42:18] Incongruence with DEI’s Equal-Outcomes Premise
• [45:46] Cultural Diffusion as the Engine of Progress
• [46:09] The “Acting White” Phenomenon
• [51:19] Shift to Militancy and Cultural Separatism in the 1960s
• [53:32] Affirmative Action, Rank-and-File American Views, and Institutional Lag
• [57:29] Advice to Minority Youth and the Dangers of Pessimism

Final Thoughts & Advice

Jason Riley concludes with practical, optimistic insight for young people—especially minorities—being bombarded by negative narratives:

“Ignore those people...There are more opportunities in this country for them than ever before, and you have to seize them. And if you prepare yourself to seize them, they will be there.” [57:29]

He strongly condemns adults who imbue the next generation with cynicism, urging youth to focus on agency, preparation, and self-responsibility as the primary levers of personal success.

Tone and Style

The conversation blends empirical rigor and personal narrative with a frank, sometimes wry, delivery. Both guest and host push for a candid re-examination of entrenched orthodoxies, call for nuance in policy debates, and emphasize the persistent need for self-determination and optimism.

This summary is intended for listeners seeking a comprehensive, timestamped guide to this episode’s argument and major takeaways, suitable for both newcomers and seasoned followers of City Journal’s explorations of public policy and American society.