Podcast: City Journal Audio

Host: Manhattan Institute
Episode: Why does raising a child in New York cost so much?
Date: October 24, 2025
Guests: Nicole Jelinas (A), Liana Zagarri (B)

Overview

This episode of the Bigger Apple podcast, hosted by Nicole Jelinas and joined by Liana Zagarri, delves into the high costs and logistical hurdles of raising children—especially in terms of child care—in New York City. The discussion weaves through policy context, parent experiences, economic pressures, regulatory barriers, and emerging political plans from mayoral candidates. The hosts ground the conversation in the realities families face, exploring why NYC has become less hospitable for those raising young kids, and what solutions are—or aren’t—on the table.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Population Shifts and Demographic Challenges [00:34–02:19]

• Declining Young Family Population: NYC lost nearly 50,000 children under five between 2010 and 2020—a sign that families are leaving or not choosing NYC to raise kids.
• Possible Reasons: High costs and lack of affordable child care are major contributors.
• Nicole sets the stage:

  “People starting young families or people who recently started young families are not finding the city to be a hospitable place to have and raise children.” [01:13, A]

2. Child Care in NYC: Lay of the Land [02:19–05:24]

• When Do Parents Start Planning?

  “Usually you start thinking about childcare before the child is even born. The first consideration... is who’s going to take care of the child, given how short parental leave is, if there is parental leave at all.” [02:19, B]

• Types of Care & Costs:
  • Center-based infant care: ~$26,000/year
  • Family care: ~$18,000/year
  • Informal/familial care (e.g., grandma): approaches zero—if possible.
• Housing Costs Intersect: Grandparent care only works if extended family can afford to live nearby. Housing costs are a fundamental barrier.

3. The Affordability Crisis [06:26–07:49]

• Child Care as a Prohibitive Expense:
  • Comptroller’s threshold: household needs $634,000 income to spend less than 7% on child care, but median household income is ~$80,000.
  • "If we had all the money, we would not be talking about this." [03:19, B]
• Why the Issue Matters Politically: The math no longer adds up for ordinary families—costs have outpaced incomes, bringing child care to the forefront of city politics.

4. Skyrocketing Costs: What’s Driving Increases? [07:49–09:41]

• Factors:
  • Pandemic: Providers closed, supply shrank, increased health/safety requirements.
  • Child care costs for infants rose 79% since the pandemic.
  • Labor market increases, rent, regulation.
• Regulatory Environment: Licensure and safety requirements are essential, but some might be unnecessarily restrictive.

5. Barriers in Regulation & Infrastructure [09:26–12:03]

• Necessary but Rigid Regulations:
  • High caregiver-to-child ratios are justified, akin to nursing home care for vulnerable populations.
  • Some rules, like mandatory ground-floor locations for centers, block potential expansions in space-limited NYC.

    “Children live in multi story buildings and there’s no reason necessarily that you could not safely evacuate them if they were located, say on the second floor." [10:32, B]

• Transit-Oriented Solutions: New proposals encourage locating child care near transit hubs—a boon for working parents.

6. Mayoral Candidates’ Plans & Universal Programs [12:03–18:24]

• Cuomo’s Plan: Focus on co-locating early childhood care in public schools, taking advantage of declining school enrollment and excess space.
• Assemblyman Mamdani’s Proposal: Extreme universal model—child care for all children age 6 weeks to 18 years, with no timeline, and immediate, full coverage implied.
• Practical Considerations:
  • Universal pre-K’s rollout was massive and incremental—a model for why phasing-in is necessary.
  • Demand is lower for very young children; parental preferences vary.

7. Complications of Flexibility & Workforce Realities [18:24–22:07]

• Scheduling Needs vs. Program Rigidity:
  • Public systems tend toward standardization, but parents (e.g., shift workers) need flexibility—a current mismatch.
  • Solutions may require employer partnerships for on-site or flexible care.

    “You could see in a setting like a hospital or some... provider where you could provide care that fits the wishes of their employees.” [19:02, B]

8. The Question of Wages & Labor [20:07–22:51]

• Wages for Providers:
  • Mamdani proposes pay parity for child care workers with public school teachers (~$100,000+), versus current $40,000 average.
  • Labor market is tight; higher wages would draw workers but explode costs.

    “If you are essentially paid the same to work at a McDonald’s as you are to look after somebody’s children, you have options in a labor market that’s tight.” [21:51, B]

  • Raising pay increases supply and cost, further stress-testing family affordability.

9. Cost, Pilots, and Who Should Pay [23:22–24:35]

• Fiscal Implications:
  • Full universal expansion: $6B+ annually, atop existing $1B for pre-K.
  • Should the city embark on full-scale change or test pilot programs first? Both hosts favor incremental expansion and piloting.

10. Private Sector Partnerships and Additional Solutions [24:35–26:24]

• Employers as Stakeholders:
  • Companies and hospitals need young employees—childcare is a workforce retention and economic development issue.
  • Employers face heavy regulatory burdens in creating on-site child care.

11. Everyday Challenges for NYC Parents [27:01–29:15]

• Time Scarcity: All life logistics—housing, jobs, commutes, shopping—are more complicated (and costly) with kids.
• Infrastructure Gaps: Subways rarely accommodate strollers; few apartments have washer/dryers.

12. Big Policy Questions: Universalism, Funding, Equity [29:15–34:36]

• Policy Concerns: Are expansive entitlements sustainable without dedicated funding?

  “What worries me is providing entitlements that we don’t have dedicated funding for.” [31:47, B]

• Tax implications: Universal programs, once established, would be almost impossible to roll back (“everyone’s gotten used to sending their babies to childcare”). [32:58, A]
• Targeted Aid: Credits and vouchers help at the poorest margin, but middle-class families are stuck.

13. Personal Tradeoffs & Parental Work [34:15–35:52]

• Opportunity Cost:
  • “As someone who ended up staying home because it made no sense for me to go to work... taking care of children is certainly work.” [34:15, B]
  • Welfare and work: is society valuing parenthood or pushing all toward paid labor outside the home?

14. Exodus and Suburban Shift [36:05–37:27]

• Family Exit from NYC:
  • Families often leave for suburbs or farther when space and affordability crunches hit.
  • Pandemic exacerbated the pressure as apartments emerged as “unlivable” with whole families at home.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Who Gets Help:
  “If you ask your grandma, that [cost] drops to a lot closer to zero... unless you need to factor in the fact that she needs to be able to live next to you or within reasonable commuting distance of where you’re living.” [03:19, B]

• Regulations in Context:
  “This isn't really one of those places where you can say, let's just get rid of the regulations... You have to have background checks on workers and you have to have the places inspected.” [08:54, A]

• Parenting in NYC:
  “Having young children in the city is incredibly difficult for all the reasons that we’ve discussed, the transportation, down to the fact that... so many buildings don’t have washer dryers in them.” [30:30, B]

• Why Families Leave:
  “You cannot expect people to live and work from home in New York City with their children. That’s just unreasonable expectations.” [37:15, B]

Key Timestamps

• [00:34–02:19]: Introduction to NYC’s shrinking young-family demographic.
• [02:19–05:24]: How parents plan for child care, costs, and the impact of housing.
• [07:49–09:41]: Breakdown of skyrocketing costs post-pandemic.
• [10:32–11:06]: Critique of ground-floor-only regulations.
• [12:03–14:13]: Candidate plans—school co-location, class sizes, and policy priorities.
• [17:07–18:24]: Feasibility of universal cradle-to-18 programs.
• [21:51–22:07]: Realities of attracting and paying child care workers.
• [24:35–25:58]: Employer role in child care.
• [27:01–28:38]: Parenting logistics and infrastructure woes.
• [31:47–32:58]: Fiscal concerns about new entitlements.
• [34:15–35:52]: The value (and economic rationale) of stay-at-home parenting.

Tone & Takeaway

Throughout, Nicole and Liana maintain a thoughtful, policy-savvy, yet pragmatic tone. Liana’s experience as a NYC parent grounds theoretical debate in lived reality. Cost, regulatory environment, politics, and everyday struggles intertwine—they stress that urban parenting is a logistical and economic balancing act shaped by policy decisions, infrastructure, and limited resources.

Bottom line: Raising children in NYC is challenging and costly, not just because of high rents and child care bills, but due to an interplay of regulations, workforce needs, shifting political priorities, and the real-life geometry of city living. The podcast calls for nuanced, incremental solutions informed by both public and private sector innovation—always keeping families’ diverse needs at the center.