Classical Stuff You Should Know Episode 264: An Interview with Davies Owens and Keith McCurdy Release Date: August 9, 2024

In this engaging episode of Classical Stuff You Should Know, hosts A.J. Hanenburg, Graeme Donaldson, and Thomas Magbee welcome special guests Davies Owens and Keith McCurdy. The conversation delves deep into the realm of classical education, exploring its alignment with faith, parenting, and the evolving educational landscape. Below is a detailed summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

1. Welcome and Conference Experiences (00:08 - 02:03)

The episode kicks off with Davey Zones introducing Keith McCurdy and Davies Owens, who are attending the Paideia Conference hosted by Veritas Academy. Keith expresses enthusiasm about the collaborative spirit at the conference:

Keith McCurdy [00:52]: "Being in a collaborative school environment is quite remarkable... There's such an enthusiasm for partnering with the school. I just love the collaborative spirit."

Davies echoes this sentiment, highlighting the eagerness of parents to embrace a countercultural approach to education:

Davies Owens [01:20]: "From my background, dealing with families scared to live counterculturally, I love being at a conference like this where everyone is eager to live counter culture."

The guests also share their positive experiences exploring Austin's local cuisine, emphasizing the vibrant community atmosphere.

2. Backgrounds in Classical Education (02:03 - 08:01)

Keith McCurdy provides a comprehensive overview of his journey to classical education, emphasizing his diverse background:

Keith McCurdy [02:24]: "I would say I'm kind of an educational mutt... Spent a number of years in local church ministry, worked in Silicon Valley, and then shifted to classical Christian administration."

Keith recounts a pivotal moment from his youth that ignited his interest in classical education:

Keith McCurdy [03:44]: "At 18, I saw children putting on Shakespeare plays... It was a classical Charlotte Mason education."

Davies Owens shares a similar trajectory, transitioning from mental health to classical education driven by the desire to align schooling with healthy parenting:

Davies Owens [04:49]: "We realized the schools had changed vastly... The classical Christian model aligns with healthy parenting, allowing children to struggle well."

3. Alignment of Classical Education with Faith and Parenting (08:01 - 15:12)

Both guests emphasize how classical education harmonizes with their faith and parenting philosophies. Keith highlights the importance of transcendent objective truth in classical education:

Keith McCurdy [08:01]: "Classical education holds that there is transcendent objective truth... It aligns with healthy parenting by fostering perseverance and maturity in children."

Davies expands on this by connecting classical education to character development:

Davies Owens [07:53]: "Our job is to help children learn to struggle well... Equipping them with a faith foundation and healthy identity formation."

They discuss the shift from merely seeking successful and happy children to raising sturdy, capable individuals:

Keith McCurdy [10:19]: "The goal's not a happy, well-paid individual. The goal is someone of good character."

This focus on resilience and character over superficial success aligns with biblical teachings, particularly the Book of James, which emphasizes perseverance and maturity through trials.

4. Trends and Observations in Classical Schools (15:12 - 22:47)

Keith McCurdy observes a significant rise in the number of classical schools, a trend partly accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic:

Keith McCurdy [11:24]: "There's a rise of parents banding together to start schools or homeschool co-ops... It's very encouraging."

He notes that modern parents are more intentional in choosing classical education, seeking not just safety but genuine growth for their children:

Keith McCurdy [12:58]: "Parents are now running to something... They want their children to grow in this intentional educational process."

Davies Owens adds that classical education is gaining recognition in higher education and the workforce, with colleges creating honors programs to attract classical Christian students:

Davies Owens [15:12]: "We're seeing colleges creating honors programs just to attract classical students... These students are producing impressive outcomes in the workforce."

The guests highlight attributes that set classical Christian students apart, such as strong work ethics, effective communication skills, humility, and a readiness to engage with the world.

5. Challenges Facing Classical Education (22:47 - 33:09)

As classical education grows, Keith McCurdy identifies emerging challenges:

1. Parental Resources: Modern families often lack generational wisdom in parenting. Keith stresses the need for classical schools to support parents actively:

   Keith McCurdy [15:57]: "Parents need resources... We have to cultivate resources because they ultimately are desiring community."

2. Cultural Integration: Schools must navigate the intersection of church, home, and education to shape a cohesive culture:

   Keith McCurdy [15:57]: "How do we shape culture in the school and how does that relate to culture in the family?"

3. Resource Delivery: Traditional methods like emails are ineffective with today's busy parents. Davies and Keith introduce Zipcast as a solution:

   Davies Owens [21:48]: "Zipcast uses podcasting to deliver short, personalized content that fits into parents' busy schedules."

6. Introduction and Impact of Zipcast (33:09 - 34:16)

Zipcast is a new venture aimed at providing classical schools with a modern, efficient way to communicate with parents. It offers:

• Short, Digestible Content: 10-minute episodes delivered on Monday mornings, perfect for parents on the go.
• Customized for Each School: Schools can submit their news and announcements, which Zipcast professionally voices and engineers.
• Interactive Features: Future versions will allow listeners to dive deeper into topics with longer segments.

Keith shares a heartwarming anecdote illustrating the community impact of Zipcast:

Keith McCurdy [30:08]: "During our pilot in Seattle, three third-grade girls recognized me from the podcast and encouraged their parents to engage more. It builds community."

Davies emphasizes that Zipcast aligns with their mission to support parents and strengthen the classical education community.

7. The Enduring Impact of Classical Education (34:16 - 35:15)

Reflecting on the long-term benefits, Davies and Keith discuss how classical education equips students to navigate the real world effectively. Alumni return to share their positive experiences, highlighting the deep, lasting impact on their personal and professional lives.

Davies Owens [19:23]: "Alumni often come back and say, 'It equipped me to live in the real world.' They speak on every front, embodying the 'sturdy kid' concept."

Keith adds that graduates are prepared to face challenges with resilience and integrity:

Keith McCurdy [20:31]: "The vision is to raise sturdy, capable individuals who can make right decisions even when it's uncomfortable."

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (35:06 - End)

As the conversation wraps up, Davies and Keith reiterate their commitment to being valuable resources for classical schools and parents. They encourage listeners to explore their respective podcasts and platforms for further insights.

Keith McCurdy [34:45]: "We're here to be a resource... Zipcast is another tool to help you cultivate those resources and supply them in a personal way."

Davey Zones thanks the guests for their time and contributions, emphasizing the importance of their mission in the classical education movement.

Notable Quotes

• Keith McCurdy [00:52]: "There's such an enthusiasm for partnering with the school. I just love the collaborative spirit."
• Davies Owens [03:44]: "At 18, I saw children putting on Shakespeare plays... It was a classical Charlotte Mason education."
• Keith McCurdy [08:01]: "Classical education holds that there is transcendent objective truth... It aligns with healthy parenting by fostering perseverance and maturity in children."
• Davies Owens [15:12]: "We're seeing colleges creating honors programs just to attract classical students... These students are producing impressive outcomes in the workforce."
• Keith McCurdy [15:57]: "Parents need resources... We have to cultivate resources because they ultimately are desiring community."
• Keith McCurdy [20:31]: "The vision is to raise sturdy, capable individuals who can make right decisions even when it's uncomfortable."

This episode offers a profound exploration of classical education's role in shaping resilient, faith-aligned individuals. By addressing current trends, challenges, and innovative solutions like Zipcast, Davies Owens and Keith McCurdy provide valuable insights for educators, parents, and anyone invested in the classical education movement.