Classical Stuff You Should Know – Episode 267: Plato's Dialogues: Meno

Release Date: October 1, 2024

Introduction & Context

In Episode 267 of Classical Stuff You Should Know, hosts A.J. Hanenburg, Graeme Donaldson, and Thomas Magby delve into Plato's dialogue Meno. The episode explores profound philosophical questions surrounding the nature of virtue and its teachability, intertwining humor and insightful analysis to make ancient philosophy accessible and engaging.

Overview of Plato's Meno

The conversation kicks off with the hosts reminiscing about previous episodes on Plato's dialogues, establishing a foundation for their deep dive into Meno. They set the stage by highlighting that Meno is a standalone dialogue, distinct from the narratives involving Socrates' trial, making it an ideal candidate for their discussion.

Graham Donaldson [07:03]:

"Come on, everybody. Just, let me tell you about the essence of virtue."

The Central Question: Can Virtue be Taught?

At the heart of Meno lies the pivotal question: "Can virtue be taught, or is it acquired by practice?" The hosts dissect this inquiry, examining various perspectives on whether virtue is a form of knowledge or something intrinsically developed through action.

AJ Hanenburg [04:41]:

"Meno's like, 'Can virtue be taught?' So we're going to tackle that without settling what virtue is."

Meno's Definitions of Virtue and Socrates' Critique

Meno offers multiple definitions of virtue, each met with Socrates' critical examination. The dialogue reveals that Meno struggles to provide a unified essence of virtue, merely listing examples like courage, temperance, and wisdom without capturing their commonalities.

Thomas Magby [11:09]:

"Meno's gonna get flamed in the comments."

Graham Donaldson [11:32]:

"Meno gives his first definition. So is it going to be something comparable, like the effluence of actions that enter our souls?"

Socrates challenges Meno to find the "form" or essence of virtue, much like identifying the true nature of color or shape beyond their examples.

Meno's Paradox and Socrates' Recollection Theory

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Meno's Paradox: "How can you inquire into something you don't know about?" The hosts explore Socrates' proposed solution through the theory of recollection, suggesting that learning is essentially remembering innate knowledge from past lives.

AJ Hanenburg [24:25]:

"This is Meno's paradox. How do you know that you know something if you don't know it?"

Graham Donaldson [25:02]:

"Plato's weird belief is that we have embedded memories of everything and teaching is just like, uncovering it."

Discussion on Teaching Virtue: Knowledge vs. Practice

The dialogue transitions into a debate on whether virtue is teachable through knowledge alone or if it necessitates practical application. The hosts argue that while theoretical understanding can be imparted, embodying virtue requires consistent practice and real-life application, a process that is inherently challenging to formalize in educational settings.

AJ Hanenburg [54:07]:

"I think Plato is wrong, that Socrates is wrong. It's not just true opinion."

Graham Donaldson [55:26]:

"It's like, you have to fall in love with virtue itself. You can't just be taught what good is."

They draw parallels to modern education, suggesting that classical schools excel in conveying the theoretical aspects of virtue but often fall short in fostering its practical embodiment.

Conclusion & Personal Insights from Hosts

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts reflect on the complexities of teaching virtue, acknowledging the intertwined roles of knowledge and practice. They emphasize that while theoretical frameworks provide a foundation, the true manifestation of virtue emerges through lived experiences and personal commitment.

AJ Hanenburg [56:11]:

"I feel much more comfortable saying that virtue is something that is taught via both knowledge and practice. And it's hard and long and complicated."

Thomas Magby [52:04]:

"That's pretty core to the classical education movement."

The episode concludes with a consensus that understanding and cultivating virtue is an ongoing, multifaceted endeavor, bridging ancient philosophies with contemporary educational practices.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Graham Donaldson [07:03]:

  "Come on, everybody. Just, let me tell you about the essence of virtue."

• AJ Hanenburg [04:41]:

  "Meno's like, 'Can virtue be taught?' So we're going to tackle that without settling what virtue is."

• Thomas Magby [11:09]:

  "Meno's gonna get flamed in the comments."

• AJ Hanenburg [24:25]:

  "This is Meno's paradox. How do you know that you know something if you don't know it?"

• Graham Donaldson [25:02]:

  "Plato's weird belief is that we have embedded memories of everything and teaching is just like, uncovering it."

• Graham Donaldson [55:26]:

  "It's like, you have to fall in love with virtue itself. You can't just be taught what good is."

• AJ Hanenburg [56:11]:

  "I feel much more comfortable saying that virtue is something that is taught via both knowledge and practice. And it's hard and long and complicated."

Final Thoughts

Episode 267 offers a thorough exploration of Plato's Meno, effectively balancing philosophical depth with an approachable dialogue among the hosts. By dissecting ancient theories and relating them to modern educational challenges, Classical Stuff You Should Know provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of virtue, its origins, and its complex nature within the human experience.

For more insights and discussions on the classical world, tune into future episodes of Classical Stuff You Should Know. Engage with the hosts on YouTube, email, or Patreon to continue the conversation and deepen your appreciation for ancient philosophies.