Classical Stuff You Should Know: Episode 270 - Phaedo

Release Date: December 17, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 270 of Classical Stuff You Should Know, hosts A.J. Hanenberg, Graeme Donaldson, and Thomas Magbee delve into Plato's Phaedo, a profound dialogue that explores the immortality of the soul and the philosophical underpinnings of life and death. This episode offers an engaging analysis aimed at both educators and enthusiasts of the classical world, blending intellectual discourse with light-hearted banter.

Overview of Phaedo

A.J. Hanenberg introduces the episode by outlining his intention to discuss one of Plato's most significant dialogues, Phaedo. He provides context, explaining that the dialogue captures the final moments of Socrates before his execution, as witnessed by his close associates.

A.J. Hanenberg [01:36]: "...Phaedo is the day of his death, and his execution was postponed for a while because they were right around a religious ceremony..."

The hosts set the stage for a deep dive into the philosophical arguments presented by Socrates regarding the soul's immortality.

Immortality of the Soul

The central theme of Phaedo is the immortality of the soul. Socrates presents several arguments to support this claim, which the hosts scrutinize throughout the episode.

Doctrine of Recollection

One of Socrates' primary arguments is the Doctrine of Recollection. He posits that learning is essentially remembering knowledge the soul possessed before birth.

A.J. Hanenberg [20:29]: "We don't learn things, we simply remember them..."

The hosts challenge this notion, drawing parallels to modern understandings of knowledge acquisition and questioning the validity of innate knowledge.

Doctrine of Opposites

Another significant argument is the Doctrine of Opposites, where Socrates likens life and death to phenomena like warmth and cold. He suggests that since opposites generate each other, life must generate death and vice versa, implying an eternal cycle.

A.J. Hanenberg [22:36]: "... life must come from somewhere, otherwise literally everything would die and we would have no more life coming into the world."

The hosts critically assess this argument, highlighting logical inconsistencies and misunderstandings of biological processes.

Arguments Presented

Socrates' arguments for the soul's immortality form the crux of the discussion. The hosts break down each argument, evaluating its philosophical robustness and practical applicability.

Separation of Soul and Body

Socrates advocates for the separation of the soul from the body, asserting that the body hinders the soul's pursuit of true knowledge.

A.J. Hanenberg [08:26]: "The philosopher should flee from the body, which is a hindrance..."

The hosts debate the practicality and logic of dismissing the body's role in perception and experience, ultimately finding Socrates' stance unconvincing.

Virtue and Fear

Socrates ties the concept of virtue to the soul's desire for immortality, arguing that true philosophers possess innate virtues uninfluenced by bodily desires or fears.

A.J. Hanenberg [14:58]: "Only the philosopher can have real virtue..."

This leads to a lively discussion among the hosts about the nature of courage, temperance, and whether virtues can exist independently of fear or desire.

Host Perspectives

Throughout the episode, the hosts interject personal opinions and modern perspectives, providing a balanced critique of Socrates' arguments.

Thomas Magbee [12:35]: "Yeah, I think it's really dumb..."

Graeme Donaldson [16:22]: "My thought. I wonder if courage can even exist without fear..."

These candid insights add depth to the analysis, making complex philosophical concepts more relatable to the audience.

Discussion on Recollection and Opposites

The conversation delves deeper into the Doctrine of Recollection and the Doctrine of Opposites, with the hosts questioning their logical foundations and real-world implications.

A.J. Hanenberg [19:30]: "And the quick argument to review is...either it came to us at birth, or we're simply remembering it because we've been reincarnated."

Graham Donaldson [42:18]: "Soul as an idea cannot admit of death..."

The hosts systematically dismantle these arguments, pointing out flaws and highlighting the gaps between ancient philosophical reasoning and contemporary logical standards.

Comparison to Dante’s Inferno

A.J. Hanenberg draws parallels between Socrates' descriptions in Phaedo and Dante Alighieri's Inferno, particularly regarding the concept of the afterlife and the rivers of the underworld.

A.J. Hanenberg [50:08]: "So if you're a big Dante fan..."

This segment provides an intriguing cross-cultural analysis, illustrating how classical philosophies influenced later literary masterpieces.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts reflecting on Socrates' unwavering belief in the soul's immortality despite the superficial strength of his arguments. They acknowledge the historical significance of Phaedo while maintaining a critical stance on its philosophical assertions.

A.J. Hanenberg [54:19]: "...knowing that Dante cooked up his Four Rivers from...this idea was in the ether already and he just had to..."

Thomas Magbee [54:19]: "Yeah, this has been classical stuff. You should know..."

The hosts encourage listeners to engage with classical texts thoughtfully, recognizing both their contributions and their limitations.

Notable Quotes

• A.J. Hanenberg [04:08]: "Shame."

• Graham Donaldson [06:32]: "In death, you're free from pain and suffering..."

• A.J. Hanenberg [12:35]: "Yeah, I think it's really dumb."

• A.J. Hanenberg [27:47]: "...you know, Socrates would have judged me roundly."

• A.J. Hanenberg [43:58]: "Soul as an idea will live on. Sure. Does that mean that a man's actual soul will live on? I'm not sure it does."

Final Thoughts

Episode 270 of Classical Stuff You Should Know offers a comprehensive and critical examination of Plato's Phaedo. Through thoughtful analysis and engaging discussion, the hosts navigate the complexities of ancient philosophy, making it accessible and relevant to modern listeners. While they commend the historical importance of Socrates' arguments, they also highlight the areas where these ideas fall short, providing a balanced perspective that encourages further exploration and understanding.

For those interested in delving deeper into Aristotle's views on the soul, the hosts recommend A.J. Hanenberg's previous episodes on De Anima, suggesting a continued journey through classical philosophical thought.

Join A.J., Graeme, and Thomas next week as they continue to unravel the rich tapestry of the classical world, blending scholarly insight with the enjoyment of fine ales and good tales.

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Thank you for listening!