Classical Stuff You Should Know: Episode 278 – Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations"

Hosts: A.J. Hanenburg, Graeme Donaldson, and Thomas Magbee
Release Date: April 22, 2025

In Episode 278 of Classical Stuff You Should Know, hosts A.J. Hanenburg, Graeme Donaldson, and Thomas Magbee delve deep into Marcus Aurelius's seminal work, Meditations. This episode offers an engaging exploration of Stoic philosophy, its practical applications, and its relevance both in ancient times and today. Through lively discussions, personal anecdotes, and interactive segments, the trio provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Stoicism as articulated by one of its most esteemed practitioners.

1. Stoicism and the Nature of Desire

The episode kicks off with an intriguing conversation about the management of desires, inspired by an anecdote related to Søren Kierkegaard. A.J. shares a story where Kierkegaard's father applies a Stoic lesson when a planned beach trip falls through:

AJ (00:12): "The trip fell through and his dad was like, but you've already had the pleasure of going to the beach in your anticipation of the beach."

This story sets the stage for a broader discussion on the Stoic approach to anticipation and disappointment. Thomas critiques this as "weaponized stoicism gone bad," suggesting that true Stoicism advocates for a balanced control over desires rather than their complete suppression.

Thomas (01:20): "I don't think any real stoic would say that the anticipation is the same as the actual pleasure."

The hosts debate whether Stoicism encourages eliminating excitement for future pleasures or simply managing attachments to them, highlighting potential pitfalls in overly rigid interpretations.

2. Balancing Control and Emotional Engagement

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the tension between Stoic self-control and authentic emotional connections. The hosts explore whether Stoicism allows for deep, meaningful relationships or if it inadvertently fosters emotional detachment.

AJ (02:43): "I worry that the stoic answer... insulates themselves from true human relationships and patting themselves on the back for being detached."

Thomas acknowledges these concerns, emphasizing that while Stoicism promotes resilience, it might limit the capacity for genuine attachments and the joys that come with them.

Thomas (03:47): "He brings an empire down, right? Like, he's seen it happen time and time again. And so he had to constantly be vigilant... he was especially vigilant because when he falls into one of those [pitfalls]."

The conversation underscores the delicate balance Stoics strive for between duty and personal relationships, questioning whether Stoicism fully accommodates the complexities of human emotions.

3. Stoicism in Modern Contexts: Secular Adaptation and Critique

The hosts transition to discussing the modern resurgence of Stoicism, noting its parallels with religious practices such as Bible study. A.J. remarks on the secular packaging of Stoic teachings, likening them to Christian daily devotions.

AJ (04:44): "Modern Stoicism... looks like Bible study. Like it's even packaged like a Christian daily devotional."

Graham counters by highlighting the universal appeal of Meditations, suggesting that its humanist aspects make it accessible beyond religious frameworks.

Graham (08:44): "It's a humanist work... There's a lot of wisdom here in what a good life looks like now."

The hosts debate whether Stoicism can function effectively without metaphysical or transcendent beliefs, ultimately concluding that while Stoic principles remain robust, their modern interpretations may sometimes stray from original philosophical intentions.

Thomas (05:14): "I think you can only [have Stoicism without belief in the gods] if you define the human life in a certain way..."

4. Marcus Aurelius on Duty and Leadership

A deep dive into Marcus Aurelius's personal philosophy reveals his unwavering commitment to duty and unselfish action as an emperor. The hosts praise his focus on governing wisely without succumbing to vanity or the desire for legacy.

Thomas (07:53): "He thinks his job is to be unselfish... don't fall into worrying about what other people think of me, because that is the prescription for a crazed emperor."

Graham appreciates Marcus's practical approach, noting that Meditations emphasizes good governance and personal integrity over fame or historical remembrance.

Graham (09:13): "I think there's a lot of wisdom here in what a good life looks like now... it's not a philosophical system you have to buy into."

5. Interactive Segment: The Stoic Quiz Show

One of the highlights of the episode is the "Quiz Show" segment, where the hosts test each other's knowledge of Meditations through a series of quotes and prompts. This lively interaction not only entertains but also reinforces key Stoic teachings.

For example, Thomas challenges his co-hosts with the quote:

Thomas (26:10): "If you seek tranquility, do blank."

Graham and AJ both attempt to fill in the blank, ultimately guiding listeners through the Stoic principle that tranquility is achieved by focusing on essential actions and eliminating the unnecessary.

Another notable quiz includes:

Thomas (35:07): "If you hold your breath until you turn blue, but blank don't."

Thomas correctly identifies the Stoic response, highlighting the importance of personal serenity over others' actions:

Thomas (47:48): "You can hold your breath until you're blue, but they will still go on doing it."

These interactive segments effectively illustrate Meditations' practical advice, making Stoic concepts accessible and memorable for listeners.

6. Virtues, Character, and Practical Applications

As the episode progresses, the hosts reflect on the virtues espoused by Marcus Aurelius and how they can be applied in everyday life. They discuss themes such as:

• Self-Control: Managing one's impulses and desires.
• Duty and Responsibility: Prioritizing communal well-being over personal gain.
• Acceptance of Nature: Embracing the natural flow of events and inherent good in the universe.

Thomas emphasizes the pragmatic aspects of Stoicism, noting that Meditations serves as a daily reminder to perform good deeds, maintain kindness, and remain steadfast in the face of adversity.

Thomas (65:28): "It's really good kind of morning tradition... urging you towards good works, kindness, openness, not getting angry, taking things as they come."

A.J. and Graham further critique and appreciate Stoicism, acknowledging its strengths in fostering resilience and moral integrity while also questioning its limitations regarding emotional depth and personal relationships.

AJ (44:00): "I often get the sense that the true Stoic often has a hard time or doesn't believe that authentic Aristotelian friendship can exist..."

7. Closing Reflections

In their concluding remarks, the hosts reiterate the value found in Meditations, despite its perceived shortcomings. They advocate for a balanced reading approach, where listeners contemplate each passage and integrate its lessons into their lives without taking Stoicism to an extreme.

Thomas (65:28): "If you read like, if you want to read this as sort of a daily reminder to be good and not get frustrated with people and to take things as they come. I think that's great."

While acknowledging the challenges Stoicism poses to modern relational dynamics, they ultimately celebrate Meditations as a timeless guide to personal excellence and ethical living.

Notable Quotes from the Episode:

• Thomas (18:09): "Stoic maxing is now the most horrible thing I've heard today."
• Graham (35:07): "The obstacle to our acting... advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way."
• Thomas (50:25): "Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen to you."

Conclusion

Episode 278 offers a thorough and thought-provoking examination of Marcus Aurelius's Meditations, blending scholarly analysis with relatable discussions. By balancing praise with critical insights, the hosts provide listeners with a nuanced perspective on Stoicism, encouraging both appreciation and mindful application of its teachings in contemporary life.