Classical Stuff You Should Know — Episode 283: Beauty and the Beast

Date: September 2, 2025
Hosts: AJ Hanenburg, Graeme Donaldson, Thomas Magbee

Overview

In this episode, the trio dives into the enduring fairy tale "Beauty and the Beast," exploring its origins, the influential Andrew Lang "Rainbow" Fairy Books, and the cultural, literary, and moral themes embedded in classical fairy tales. The hosts consider how these tales have been shaped by and for children, discuss critical perspectives from Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, and reflect on the archetypal roles and enduring wisdom within Beauty and the Beast.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is "Beauty and the Beast"? (00:48–01:18)

• The episode unpacks one of the original versions of "Beauty and the Beast," highlighting that there are many iterations across cultures.
• Graeme notes his inspiration: "Of course, I’m talking about this because this is one of the stories that my kids are reading as a part of their story." (01:16)

2. Andrew Lang and the Blue Fairy Book (02:36–06:15)

• The source text discussed is from The Blue Fairy Book, part of Andrew Lang's famous "Rainbow Fairy" series.
• While Lang is credited, much of the collection and translation was done by his wife, Leonora Blanche Lang (05:22).
• Lang's aim: "He is also an academic, so he’s, like, researching these stories to kind of draw out meanings or why these stories exist... but then there is this piece of their stories for kids." (06:30)

3. Purpose and Audience of Fairy Tales (06:15–10:25)

• Hosts question whether fairy tales are for children and if that's a diminutive or condescending view.
  • AJ: "So is he essentially excusing himself from criticism, like, of course you don’t like it; it’s for kids?" (09:53)
• They discuss the wisdom in fairy tales for everyone, not just the young.

4. Tolkien’s Critique of Fairy Tales as Children's Literature (09:16–16:10)

• Quoting Tolkien’s On Fairy Stories, they highlight Tolkien's belief that fairy tales are not just for children.
  • "Fairy stories should not be specifically associated with children. They are associated with them naturally, because children are human and fairy stories are a natural human taste, though not necessarily a universal one..." (14:10)
• Discuss the harm in "winking" at the adult audience, undermining the story’s magic and meaning for the child (16:05).
  • Justin: "That creates a little crisis in... Everything that I grew up enjoying is an adult joke on me. And I feel like that’s a really bad thing to do to a kid..." (17:14)

5. Moral Imprint of Stories on Children (19:03–20:39)

• The group reflects on the powerful effect of stories on a child's moral development.
  • Justin: "Just like with a wax seal, the imprint that you make on the wax seal when it’s pliable will last forever. So too the moral formation of a child." (19:03)

6. Classical vs Modern Storytelling: On Redefining Monsters (22:38–27:02)

• C.S. Lewis is cited on the importance of keeping archetypes intact and avoiding "ungrammatical" novelty (21:30).
  • AJ: "Anytime you take something that should be a dragon... and you make it like a dragon that loves to shop, you’ve killed it." (22:27)
• They discuss how modern tales often depict monsters or villains as misunderstood rather than evil, contrasting with classical tales where evil must be defeated (24:04–26:43).

7. Understanding and Sympathy for Evil (27:12–28:55)

• The conversation shifts to society’s tendency to sympathize with villains once their backstories are known.
  • Justin: "We don’t look at the crime, and we sort of sympathize with the killer... We feel like we’re being merciful." (27:46)
  • AJ: "There are people who are abused and don’t go and become serial killers. Right?" (28:11)

Beauty and the Beast: The Tale Retold

(Main story begins at 29:00)

8. Summary of Andrew Lang's Version (29:00–54:42)

• The Setup:
  • Once upon a time, a merchant with six sons and six daughters loses his fortune (29:30). Beauty, the titular "Beauty," is singularly good and asks only for a rose when her father travels.
• The Castle and the Beast:
  • On his return, the merchant loses his way and finds an enchanted castle. After eating the Beast's food and picking a rose for Beauty, he is confronted by the Beast—here depicted as "an elephant-warthog man with man hands" (36:11).
  • The Beast demands that one of the merchant’s daughters come to live with him as the price for the stolen rose. She must come willingly (38:29).
• Beauty's Exchange:
  • Beauty agrees to save her father. She finds the Beast to be not just civil, but even pleasant, and the story focuses more on her experiences in the castle than on action (43:34).
  • She dreams nightly of a handsome prince who cryptically tells her not to judge by appearances.
  • The Beast asks Beauty to marry him every night; she always refuses (47:48).
• Return Home and Realization:
  • Beauty is allowed to return home for two months. Her family has moved on, and she feels out of place (49:59). Her prince dreams cease.
  • After dreaming the Beast is dying, she hurries back and finds him near death. Overcome by emotion, she realizes she loves him (51:32).
• Transformation and Resolution:
  • As soon as she accepts him and says yes, the Beast transforms back into the prince (53:31).
  • The magic is explained: He was cursed by an evil fairy; only true love could break it.
  • There is a joyful marriage, family reunion, and “happily ever after.”
  • Graeme: "That's how you do a fairy tale, right?" (54:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• AJ on modern adaptations:
  • "Anytime you take something that should be a dragon… and you make it like a dragon that loves to shop, you've… killed it." (22:27)
• Justin on the lesson of Beauty and the Beast:
  • "Things are lovable once you love them. It's until you love something that you transform it into being lovable." (12:47)
• Graham, on adult ‘winks’ in fairy tales:
  • "You're adding all this complexity for the adult who's like..." (16:15)
• Graeme, on the core of fairy tales:
  • "As you winnow it down like that, you also move from it being a story to it being an archetype." (58:44)
• AJ, referencing C.S. Lewis:
  • "There is therefore a special reason why mythical poetry ought not to attempt novelty in respect to its ingredients..." (21:32)

Important Thematic Timestamps

• 00:48 — Introduction to Beauty and the Beast as topic
• 03:33 — Overview of Andrew and Leonora Blanche Lang’s contributions
• 09:16 — Discussion of Tolkien’s critique of fairy tales as “just for children”
• 14:10 — Tolkien quote about fairy stories and children
• 19:03 — Childhood reading and moral development
• 22:38 — C.S. Lewis on archetype; discussion of modern vs. classical monsters
• 29:00 — Full retelling of Beauty and the Beast begins
• 43:34 — Beauty’s character and her experience in the castle
• 49:59 — Beauty’s return home and her sense of displacement
• 51:32 — The emotional climax: love realized and the beast’s transformation
• 54:42 — Fairy tale ending; brief discussion of the backstory and curse

Conclusion: Archetypes, Morals, and Meaning

• Fairy tales communicate perennial human truths and archetypes, holding value beyond simple "children's literature."
• The classic "Beauty and the Beast" revolves around love's transformative power, virtue rewarded, and the importance of not being deceived by appearances.
• Modern reinterpretations often lose the archetypal clarity by muddying moral distinctions or overcomplicating motives.
• The group celebrates the value in direct, archetypal storytelling, siding with Tolkien and Lewis in preserving the power and wonder these tales possess for adults and children alike.

For Further Reading

• The Blue Fairy Book by Andrew (and Leonora) Lang
• J.R.R. Tolkien's essay On Fairy Stories
• C.S. Lewis's introduction to Paradise Lost

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